Fascinating that anyone would equate the show being a 'success' with the family not failing.

J&K+8 is a hot commodity and a 'success' in the eyes of those who make money from it. Sadly, the family failing is *making* it more successful because of the train wreck factor.

Drama sells. I doubt octomom's kids need any more drama than she has already provided.

I guess we must quantify success differently, but I don't have any apprehension in stating that I believe I am right and you are wrong, kvmj.

The Duggars, while very much different than most of us, seem to be raising responsible, secure children in an environment that places a high value on a strong work ethic, responsibility, and empathy for the other members in their family. The parents - both of them - are physically and emotionally present for their children. They do not seem to be selfish, self-aggrandizing, materialistic, it's-all-about-me people. Are they different? You betcha. But my guess is that those children will grow up to have a low divorce rate, a high level of marital satisfaction, and will not likely ever rely on public assistance.

For the J&K family, I see parents who have ceased to be there for there children physically or emotionally. The fact that their father, who used to be present in their lives on a daily basis, now seems to have taken wings and flown to Europe to hang with a hot young thing has created a void that is surely not healthy to their emotional development. Their mother has a history of getting pretty cranky and if she was cranky before, now that she has eight kids on her own, with a crazy travel schedule and a divorce to deal with, I can't imagine she's not a little preoccupied. I predict the Gosselin (sp?) kids will end up with multiple divorces and a low level of marital satisfaction almost across the board. Their therapy bills will be outrageous.

Octomom is not mentally stable. I think the Lord didn't create us as asexual beings for a reason. It takes two to launch a life, and I think a child is best served when the two who created that life are involved in fostering the growth of that life. I don't buy into that crap about one parent being just as good. That's not to say that there aren't situations where it is *necessary* for one parent to go it alone, and that the kids of those parents have no chance. They do. But the best, most ideal scenario is a loving mom AND a loving dad, both present and accounted for, working a job, requiring the children to be responsible and modeling healthy respect for others. I don't see any of those things present for Octomom. SHE created the scenario that was full of voids and then brought kids into it.

The "formula" for raising a child to be a stable, happy, productive member of society is not failproof, and a child raised in a situation where the 'formula' isn't present can very well grow from those experiences and become better for them.

But the law of averages says that the kids from a family like J&K's and Octo's are more likely to end up in need of serious therapy. I predict that there will be MORE screwed up adults in 20 years coming out of the Gosselin and Octo households than the Duggars.

Let's meet back here in 2029 and confer. lol

ETA: I wanted to add one more thing. The key to the Duggars success is, IMHO, the fact that they not only have faith, but they are modeling a life that is consistent with that faith. I don't agree with all of their doctrine, but unlike the Gosselin's, they aren't bringing their children up in an environment that is supposedly based on faith (they Gosselin's started out churchy and spoke in many churches, from what I understand) and then when the kids are just at an age where they are processing the values their parents 'preach', the parents go off and turn their world upside down by violating them. That is, imho, extremely harmful to the development of a child.