I love MJ. All my life.... I always wondered what his behind the scenes life was like.....to have all that money, that awesome house, anything he wanted. Did you see how he'd shop? "I'll take 4 of those, and toss in a dozen of them too!" Thousand dollar items, bought on a whim, money no problem. I always wondered what he did with all of the things he bought....beautiful things!

HA! Boy, was I shocked this morning. when I saw some pics!

I like to stay up to date in the celeb news by checking out TMZ.com and this morning, I found some pics on there of the raid they did at Neverland ranch a few years ago. I am just shocked and stunned at how much JUNK and disarray there is! Stuff everywhere! And yet, in the main foyers of the house, with the xmas decorations, nice and tidy. It seems like behind the scenes rooms are the messy rooms! I don't think when the police did the raid, that THEY made these messes!

It as if MJ had SO MUCH stuff (and a lot of it just looks like kitschy junk!) that he just put it wherever....on top of the tv....on top of what looks to be like really cheap wooden end tables!....on that magnificent red velvet throne chair......all those child-mannequins......what IS some of that stuff?!......is that a first aid box? Everything is topsy-turvy!.....how can he find anything?!......This mess reminds me of a 5 year old's room! Gosh, I really love MJ....I am so disappointed to be seeing this.

And have you guys seen those horrible pics of the wound on his leg they were showing on GMA this morning? My God!! It is so sad that all of this horrible truth (can we trust the media? maybe not, but the pics speak for themselves!) comes out now that he is dead.... how awful.

I won't let all of this change my feelings about how I admired MJ. The skeletons in his closet are coming out--we've all got a few of them! Just so sad and disappointing.... what do you guys think of these pics?

Neverland Ranch Raid Pictures | Celebrity Photos | TMZ.com

I really don't know if he was messy or not. It does not matter to me, really. I do think in a raid, they will make a HUGE mess. They are not being neat, they just throw everything out and they do not clean it up.

I really do not like all of the stuff they are saying now that has nothing to do with his death. I know some of it matters, but to me, once someone is gone, there is no purpose served at all in putting their dirty laundry all over t.v.(literally, too).

I am like you in that I always loved Michael and nothing will change that.

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I think alot of that is from the police "searching" the place. They tend to toss things all over the place. Not saying that's all of it, but I do believe that is most of it. Notice how they made a point to show the mannequins and the pictures of him with kids? Like they were making a point or something.

I didn't say it was wrong, I was just telling why I think it looked like that. That probably wasn't the only reason it looked a mess. His whole life was a mess. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a packrat, or whatever else. He was pretty strange. Even people that love him will have to admit that. I am not defending him, just trying to make points.

To me it looks like MJ was a major packrat!

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Well, isn't that the reason for the raid? Wasn't it part of the allegations of child molestation? I can see them taking those pictures based on what they were there to look for.

Either way.....whoa, what a mess!

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Wow. I am shocked too. We all think of him as living like royalty and that does not look like royalty to me. A few years ago, WHY was his home raided? Did this have to do with his trail?. Also, did his kids live in that house?

What is the story about the wound on his leg that you mentioned?

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Ok weird. I posted a reply but it dissapeared. Anyway, I wasn't saying it was wrong, just pointing out that it may be the reason for some of the mess. Yes, that's what they do when they "raid" a place. And, if those pics were for an investigation, why did they release them to a "celebrity news magazine"? Just wondering.

I'm not saying he wasn't a packrat. His whole life was a mess. It wouldn't surprise me if this is how he lived twards the end of it. But hadn't it also been a few years since he had even been to NL?

think that was more of a storage room, there was other pictures of a couple othe rooms that wasnt like that.

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I too was thinking a lot of the mess might have been from the police, but then again, the way some of it was stacked on the tv or whatever that was, made me think they hadn't messed with that part of the room yet. I think too, he was a packrat!! I guess I just expected more elaborate and beautiful display cases, or shelves, or something......... the rooms seemed kind of bare of glamorous things to me.

I am so sad MJ is gone!!!!!!! I HATE that they are dragging his life through the mud like this! I guess by starting this thread, I am only doing the same. ? I just realized that. I'm sorry, you guys. I didn't mean any disrespect to MJ.

That is what I was thinking.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I'm not so sure those are all storage rooms. One had a fireplace and one had a set of stairs. The only clear pic was the foyer. I think he was probably an OCD pack-rat.

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Mary

As busy as his life was who could possibly find time to mess with all that clutter.I'm sure Michael had better ,more important things to do with his spare time than to fool with a few cluttered up rooms.

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Hey, if you came to my house and took a picture of my sewing room and garage people would be shocked too.

That's funny.

I don't know if he had really important things to do so he couldn't clean..not that people would expect him to. I guess we would expect that he had "people" in his employ to do so.

If is also possible that the police did make that mess in "tossing" his house during their search. Either way, he sure did have a lot of stuff

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The wound on his leg came from accidentally ripping out an IV when he got up out of bed in the middle of the night.

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"We must love them both--those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in the finding of it."
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I googled it and read that the iv was indeed ripped out, but he was using the iv for illegal drugs. I have never heard of an iv in a leg before.

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I think they use the veins in the leg ( or any other place) when those in the arm have been over used and are not available any more

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E. Roosevelt

He probably didn't trust anyone to come in and clean.

Where is Neicy Nash and her crew when you need them?

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He should have trained the chimp to clean

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

"Man In The Mirror" Tribute - Siedah Garrett and The Agape International Choir: Michael Jackson - Kiddnation

This is what I feel about the people that have so much to say now....what she is saying is true.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I agree! It's amazing that this man is dead and all everyone want to do is dig up dirt and trash him.

On another note, I Love Man in the Mirror. Another of my favorite MJ songs is Cry. Man I love that song!!!

Jen

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I just found this on TMZ.com. It's actual footage of the Pepsi commercial and exactly what happened. Scary video, not for those that are squeamish!

MJ's Explosive Pepsi Shoot Video -- 25 Years Later | TMZ.com

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Holy Crap! That's HORRIBLE!

I remember my older sister sneaking into my room after bedtime to tell me that he had been hurt making that commercial. I was so *in love* with him that I cried for what seemed like hours.

I never knew about this till I saw it on TV last night.What I don't understand is why people waited so long to help him. I can see why that would leave him somewhat emotionally scarred after that.

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oh, I think he was "emotionally" scarred long before the burn incident.

I think that part of the reason why it took a few extra seconds before someone helped was because of a variety of factors: 1) they were filming a commercial. the people involved had specific things they were to do--and those were their focus. 2) fireworks had just gone off. I don't think it registered w/ some that the flames they were seeing were actually on his head and not just residual fire/flames from the fireworks, 3) when you see something like that, you think "if he is on fire, surely he knows that!" It just doesn't register.

I don't think that the emotional scars MJ had are the result of a delay in people helping him. Now, he very well could have experienced some PTSD and by all reports he developed a prescription drug addiction--but, a delay in response wasn't the cause of his "issues".

A lot of "stars" and wealthy people are eccentric (or just plain crazy)--so it wouldn't surprise me if MJ was a packrat/hoarder, or was a "slob".

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I think I read on that site somewhere that the pics of the messy rooms were of storage rooms in a guest house?

I still can't believe he's gone either. Such a loss of talent, it's a shame. I feel so bad for his kids.

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Lisa B.
If only Target sold cars...

I wonder what will happen to all that stuff?? I imagine if they sold it at ebay it would sell and make tons of money since it came from MJ's place,, it would be sad if it all got trashed I see potential there even a yard sale !! LOL the Jacksons having a yard sale LOL :-)

Yes, that is what I heard and that is what I assumed before I even heard it.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I don't understand why it matters whether MJ was a slob or not. Good people are slobs, bad people are neat. Cleanliness isn't the equivalent of godliness, nor is the converse necessarily true.

I know that cleanliness isn't equal to godliness, but I do think there is a pretty high correlation between emotional health and the state of one's home. We're not talking about mild clutter with MJ. It appeared to me that he was quite an accumulator and hoarder. He appears to have had way more 'stuff' than he had the capacity to display and enjoy, and despite the fact that he could have afforded the best housekeeping staff in the world, he didn't use his money to 'buy' anyone or anything that could bring some order to that chaos.

Order isn't necessarily a sign of strong emotional health, either, btw.... but I do think extreme chaos comes from something being off and that was some pretty extreme chaos.

Some of those pix looked like storage areas, but some were clearly of living areas. And even if they were storage areas... they were still a mess. "Storage" doesn't mean "Tossed everywhere" for everyone.

Some people don't opt to save and store every item that comes into their lives. Some people don't opt to obtain more and more stuff when they are already bursting at the seams. Some people keep their stored items in nice, stackable rubbermaid containers.

For whatever reason, he chose to maintain stuff and chaos over maintaining order.

And none of that makes him *bad*. I just think it's all a symptom of emotional chaos. I think people who obtain and keep so much stuff often see the *stuff* as evidence that they exist and have a purpose. And sometimes it is a symptom of an indecisive mind that can't determine what has true worth and what's just 'more'.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. But he did choose to lead a life in the public eye and to present an image that many millions of Americans and Europeans bought into, investing their money and their emotions. For that reason, I think whether what was going on behind the scenes matched with the image or not *is* going to be newsy.

On one level it's sad that he can't just die, be buried, and not have everything about him cross-examined and scrutinized by the world. On the other hand... it's to be expected. Some of those Brady Bunch kids just faded into the woodwork once they became adults, never to be heard from again, so to throw them in the post-mortem spotlight would be over the top. But MJ? I think it's to be expected.

Wowitsdark you mentioned the Brady Bunch I remember they did do that silly reality show my fair Brady with Peter aka Christopher Knight when at 50 years old he was dating and then married then model Adrienne. I am not sure if they are still together or not. As far as MJ goes and his clutter, I believe may movies stars are sent and given so many items and perhaps he just did not know what to do with all that stuff. Peace. Catherine

I think the reason he saved so much stuff is because he couldn't really get rid of it. Think about Micheal Jackson stuff out on the curb for garbage some trash diver goes in grabs the stuff and tries to sell it and make a fast buck using his name for merchandise he didn't agree to sell.

If I were him I would be afraid to get rid of anything afraid someone might find a way to use it against me or make money off of my name.

This could be a huge part of it. I know as a teacher, I get so many gifts and I have a very hard time getting rid of them. I look at the stuff and think of how excited the kid was when they handed it to me and I just can't do it.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I understand what ya'll are saying... but I just don't buy it in his case. I mean... maybe it is true, but it's not really healthy, kwim? At some point when you can't find a place to put your coffee cup down, you say to yourself, "Alright - this is just too much." And you call your friend Liz Taylor and say, "Liz, people send me stuff all the time and it's just too much. What do I do with it all?" lol

I can't imagine he is the only movie star who was sent overwhelming amounts of stuff. I remember when Princess Diana had babies and people sent thousands upon thousands of gifts, it was a pretty public thing that they then donated them on to charity. I can't imagine that he didn't have connections in his life with people who were in the same boat he was surely in, with stuff coming in the mail all the time, and who know what stars do with their unwanted stuff.

Put it on the curb? No... but... have your maid have her nephew sneak it into the back door of Goodwill as an unidentified box of schtuff... sure.

If he felt it necessary to hang on to every memento every fan sent to him - fans he would never meet and who had no place in his *real* life - that's really not healthy. To have a house so full of stuff that you can't enjoy your house is no way to live.

By the way... I'm a clutter bug myself, but I think if it got to the point that his house is in I'd go crazy.

Again I have to ask.. who really cares if he was a slob? Why are people continuing to drag this man through the mud??
I am not the biggest fan of his however I can truly see why he wanted to kill himself at one point in time. He had not a moment of peace!

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I agree with you dannic in the end who really cares if he collected or kept all that stuff, in the end he was the one who had to deal with it and live with all that stuff, when it comes down to it , it truly does not effect any of us at all.Like I have stated before no matter what I still and always will feel sorry for him and his life and firmly believe that fame and fortune is not always the best thing, as from the age of 5 that is all he knew. Peace. Catherine

Who really cares?

I don't.

I actually think it's sad all the attention that is being given to his death. Lt Brian Bradshaw also died on June 25th...KIA in Afghanistan.

Now, there's a hero and a role model, but likely very few have heard of him.

Local News | Young lieutenant from Steilacoom killed in Afghanistan wanted to help Afghan people | Seattle Times Newspaper
washingtonpost.com

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I agree, cjs.

And I really don't *care* per se... but I guess when I see anyone being defensive of him, given that nobody really knew him.... well... I guess I'm saying it cuts both ways. To either bash him *or* defend his honor when he was a stranger to essentially everyone is thinking pretty shallowly. To the bashers, I'd say he obviously wasn't equipped with the tools necessary to have a solid life, so it's a little mean to assume he could have had normalcy if he wanted it. To the defenders, I'd say that defending someone's honor who obviously lived a weird, chaotic life just because he was musically gifted is pretty short-sighted.

But because he opted to live a public life and wanted people to follow him and buy into the persona he created, I think it's to be expected that people will be curious about whether that persona was real or not. At this juncture, what's left is what is. No more facade... and the book is open for those who were curious about him while he was alive.

But personally, I only think about him when I open this thread. lol

I have to say that this is one of the best posts that I have seen in a very long time! Mr. Bradshaw is indeed a role model and hero!

I did not know him personally, of course, but I was a huge fan from way back and I admired many things about him. I "defend" his right to be dead without the same nasty attacks he faced when he was living.

As for hero's, they die everyday. It is very sad, but they usually do not want the attention and there is no way we could ever be informed on every hero that dies. We were informed about Michael, because he was VERY famous, like it or not.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

Maybe that's part of what is wrong w/ this world: The true HEROES aren't put forth as role models, but entertainers who at best are "weird" and at worst are criminals ARE role models. And while the heroes who die don't want the attention, I bet they would like to have attention to the cause or the reason they died. I bet they'd like to see people stop and thinking, and question and put thought into "why" good people died....

Frankly, I'd be happy if I didn't see another story, article or post about Michael Jackson (or any of the numerous entertainers/actors/celebs) who has died in recent days. They are dead. Let them be dead.

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I really didn't expect you to agree with me as to who the real hero's (sic) of this world are, groovygirl.....nor do I expect to change your mind. Been there, haven't done that. LOL

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

ummm, I did not agree or disagree on who the true heroes are. I think you need to read again what I said. I never saw Michael Jackson as a hero, but I admired the him and I saw him as an AMAZING performer.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

It is one of the very sad parts of our world that we give more praise/attention/compensation to those people who entertain us rather than to those people who educate/help/protect us

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Sue great post, I agree millions and millions of people die each day and sadly sometimes they die alone and no one knows and sadly sometimes no one even knows. That is why I said before either way while they are performers or stars or actors or singers or famous whatever, they are human and bleed the same blood. But because they are famous their deaths are protrayed for all of us to read over and over and over again. Sometimes and most times I feel its not fair, because a regular John Smith could have died and could have been a wonderful husband and father and perhaps contributed in a positive way to make this earth a better place and for his death it would be over and done with . Who really knows, but I do know whatever the reasons behind MJ death it will not bring him back and therefore its time to let him rest. Peace. Catherine

I agree with everything that you posted, cjs216! I will add the following names to your list for just this month and from Afghanistan only:

Lance Cpl. Charles S. Sharp
Pfc. Aaron E. Fairbairn
Pfc. Justin A. Casillas
Pfc. Nicolas H. J. Gideon
Capt. Mark A. Garner
SPC Issac L. Johnson
Spc. Chester W. Hosford
Sgt. Brock H. Chavers
2nd Lt. Derwin I. Williams
SPC Christopher M. Talbert
Aviation Ordnanceman Airman Darren E. Tate
Sgt. Michael C. Roy
Master Sgt. John E. Hayes
Lance Cpl. Roger G. Hager
SPC Joshua R. Farris
SPC Gregory J. Missman
CPL Matthew R. Lembke
Lance Cpl. Pedro A. Barbozaflores
Master Sgt. Jerome D. Hatfield
Staff Sgt. Eric J. Lindstrom
Staff Sgt. David S. Spicer
Sgt. Michael W. Heede Jr.
Capt. Mark R. McDowell
Capt. Thomas J. Gramith
Sgt. 1st Class Jason J. Fabrizi

The names listed above are what I would call heroes and NOT the musicians and movie stars of the world.

marilynk, you are probably right on target with this being part of what is wrong with the world today.

The comments by groovygirl do not surprise me after reading past thoughts from her. You are wrong when you say that we cannot be informed of every hero that dies for our country. All one has to do is to take the time to find the articles & information out there about them. Why are we all so concerned about whether Mr. Jackson was a slob or not when we have an American soldier being held hostage in Afghanistan as I sit here and type this reply?

TheHill.com - Pentagon identifies captured soldier in Afghanistan

Oh, that's right.....he is not FAMOUS so he does not matter in the eyes of some in our country.

Oh boy do I agree that our armed soldiers who are far away and protecting our country, their deaths in my personal view means so much more, of course MJ passing away was truly sad, but these men and women lay their lifes down for us everyday they are the true hero's... Peace. Catherine

HA! Boy, was I shocked this morning. when I saw some pics

Thanks so much for that, littlewolf. It puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

People like you that twist things are just out to make trouble. I see hero's mentioned on Nancy Grace every night and I am very sad for them. I am NOT going to hear about every "hero" that dies ,because many of them are just every day people. I guess it depends on what you thinks qualifies one as a hero.

I think my 5th grade teacher was a hero(for many reasons) but I am SURE that none of you ever heard of his death.

Again, my point was not to take away from any hero's. This thread was not about them, it was about Michael Jackson. No one called him a hero here that I recall, but we have the right to feel pain over his death and he has the right to not be attacked after he is gone. I still do not understand the pure anger over him getting attention. There is no way around that he was well known and that always happens. It is not his fault that the hero's in the world are not known by every one.

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John Lennon

[quote=groovygirl;3284117]People like you that twist things are just out to make trouble. I see hero's mentioned on Nancy Grace every night and I am very sad for them. I am NOT going to hear about every "hero" that dies ,because many of them are just every day people. I guess it depends on what you thinks qualifies one as a hero.

I think my 5th grade teacher was a hero(for many reasons) but I am SURE that none of you ever heard of his death.

Again, my point was not to take away from any hero's. This thread was not about them, it was about Michael Jackson. No one called him a hero here that I recall, but we have the right to feel pain over his death and he has the right to not be attacked after he is gone. I still do not understand the pure anger over him getting attention. There is no way around that he was well known and that always happens. It is not his fault that the hero's in the world are not known by every one.[/QUOTE

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but for me I have to say the disppointment (not anger) toward MJs death comes more from the way the media attacked MJ years ago, and now they are trying to make him into a hero. I feel that he led a very strange life, was a drug addict and in my eyes, there are way too many unanswered questions in regards to his past. None of us really know, either way....what did or did not happen regarding the charges against him. While you are correct that there is no way to know about every *hero*, the fact that the media has wasted so much time and attention day after day on MJs death does bother many. It would be nice for the families of our military to see just a few minutes spent on these young adults who risked their lives......for us!

[quote=tammyleeb;3284145]I agree that it would be nice to hear more about them, but the fact is...we just don't. I love that Nancy Grace takes a few moments every show to honor a list of them. It s not much, but it is out there. There are far too many hero's to have them all get weeks of coverage every day. I just don't think anyone here called MJ a hero and I know I didn't.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

1) I don't anyone is trying to start trouble just because they posted their opinion on the coverage of MJ's death.
2) I don't that it's "pure anger" that is being expressed. Maybe it's a sense of "oh my God! Is his death that much more important that the capture/death of an American Service Member?".
3) FWIW, my 9 y/o put it pretty plainly when he said that the only time you see people in the news anymore is if they do something bad or they die. We now look for positive news stories because I don't want him to be so jaded at 9!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I agree with most of this, but the starting trouble I talked of was someone insinuating that I was making less of hero's when I said nothing to hint of that.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

As you well know, sometimes people read what they want to read on these boards.

And sometimes, what you or I or someone else writes, is misinterpreted.

I understand what you were saying. I, even thought I grew up in the 80s (and remember the Thriller album w/ fondness!), was not a fan of MJ. I think all the media is just making far too much of it and using it to boost ratings. And that's what sickens me. Most of the media is going w/ the sensationalist approach--and it's really uncalled for.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Alright...it's driving me crazy!!! Hero's is NOT the plural of hero. The plural of hero is heroes.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never saw MJ as a hero or a role model. I absolutely loved him - especially back in his day. I think he was an incredible entertainer and very famous - but I wouldn't call him either a hero or role model. My own opinion was that he was innocent of the molestation charges, but, again, that's just my own personal opinion. We'll probably never know or sure one way or the other. As big a fan as I was, I am starting to tire of the relentless press coverage, too.

Lisa

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It's wanting what you've got"

I agree with all you said.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I agree with everything that lisacb said too. It is simply my preference to honor those who die of more noble causes. It is simply my preference to let MJ pass and stop giving him more fanfare than we give other heroes or role models.

And as an aside, I think it is hard to look at a person's posts in a thread and not put them in context with other posts made in other threads and that's what's happening here to some degree.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips