Can we stand any more thoughts on this subject? I was thinking about him and his life. If the child molestations aren't true (1st one was definitely false and 2nd one was found not guilty) let's just presume he was totally innocent. What a sad life. Here's a tremendously talented young boy who was basically robbed of a normal childhood, had an abusive father, worked constantly, berated about his looks by his father, etc... develops severe acne as a teen, has an accident that severely burns his scalp with scarring and baldness and additional surgeries, breaks nose which starts his obsession with plastic surgery, develops vitielago and possibly lupus. Can't go out in public without getting mobbed. Can't trust most people because many of them want to use him, etc... Has serious charges leveled against him and is vilified in the public. Has severe insomnia. (Most of us know how awful being unable to sleep is.) I guess my feelings about him have changed with all of this information being put out there (that's IF he was innocent of the charges). The fact that I still don't know if he was innocent also bothers me because if he was what a travesty to have to go through all of that. That no doubt increased all of his medical problems.
Just some closing thoughts on the subject..... He either had a really sad life or was a pervert who got away with a crime. At this point I tend to think he just had a really sad life.

Goes to show fortune and fame doesn't equal happiness.

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Can we stand any more thoughts on this subject

I tend to disagree with the notion that he just had a sad life. Yes, it was hard at first. But all the things that came later -- the plastic surgery, the questionable incidents with young boys, the general strangeness -- that was all Michael's own choosing. Guilty of molestation or not -- I tend to believe there was way too much smoke to not have had a fire -- I think Michael's life ended up the way it did because of Michael's choices. At some point, don't you have to own your choices? At 50, Michael had been making his own decisions for well over half his life.

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Reading is Fundamental.

I agree. Life is about choices, and living with our own decisions. Although I do feel bad that his father was such a jerk, there are so many child abuse victims that manage to overcome it, and live normal, healthy lives.

I agree. This talk about his death being a homicide is a bunch of bunk (IMO). The choices he made were his. Yes, it's very sad that he made the ones he did and ultimately died due to those choices, but I'm sick of people blaming everyone else.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Once someone is dedd, all is forgiven. The eulogies are rosy and positive. Even the scummiest of the scum have wonderful things thought and said of them. This just amazes me, and I am talking about regular people too.

I have no idea (nor will we ever) know the truth about most facets of mj's life. Idle speculation is all we have. The press crucified him on the child molestation charges and now he's an angel and they want to find someone else to blame.

cjs is right, and I've said it before, we have to accept personal responsibility. Everything is not everyone else's fault.

dl

The parts I feel bad about is all the Jacksons at one time or another have come forth with emotional/mental issues. Where does that usually lead? Back to the family life. It's pretty common knowledge at this point Joe Jackson screwed up that entire family.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Michael did NOT want to look like himself any more. According to the family, Joe had teased him mercilessly on his looks, whenever the kid got a pimple, etc. I mean...I can't imagine my family ever doing that to me. Siblings, okay, but a parent? At young ages, what your family, especially a parent, conveys to you about their opinion of you means a LOT. It helps teach you how to see yourself. That's why it's so incredibly important to instill self-confidence and self-esteem in children. Just my opinion, but I think it hurt Michael the worst.

For other issues, I can't even imagine being held upside down by my Dad and get whacked because I didn't do good enough at a recording session.

I feel bad Michael just get help with what was happening to him emotionally and mentally. To me he seemed like a man desperate to hurt himself, or change himself so drastically - yet never able to be good enough for fans. Always trying harder and harder and harder, but never quite good enough. It's a shame he didn't get the mental and emotional help he needed to gain that strength.

Add all of that to the intensity of not only being in the public eye, but to a level of popularity that was beyond imagination.

All that certainly has nothing to do with his death, but most definately his life.

As far as child molestation charges go, it IS easy to believe because he's so odd, but yet nothing came of it. I've read in the past the Mother of the first child strongly denied that Michael did anything wrong, but you know, what that accusation is put out there, it's OUT there. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. It's been stated and that's that. For some people, an accusation is all it takes. For some people, a child would NEVER tell a lie about something like that! And if the accusation is against someone who is a bit odd, or looks weird? Then it definately must be true!

Sad, all around.

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"As far as child molestation charges go, it IS easy to believe because he's so odd, but yet nothing came of it. I've read in the past the Mother of the first child strongly denied that Michael did anything wrong, but you know, what that accusation is put out there, it's OUT there. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. It's been stated and that's that. For some people, an accusation is all it takes. For some people, a child would NEVER tell a lie about something like that! And if the accusation is against someone who is a bit odd, or looks weird? Then it definately must be true!"

As I have said in the past, there is no way in hell we would accept his type of behavior if it was a neighbor of ours. If any one of us had a neighbor who brought little boys around and did the things with them that Michael did, we would all be screaming PERVERT, FREAK

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Why did MJ continue to allow himself to be put in the position where he could be accused? Shows a lack of judgement, poor decision making skills AT BEST.
At worse it indicates that he had compulsions/desires that he chose not to control.

Compound that with the money, the fame and various "hangers-on"? MJ made some bad decisions. Pure and simple.

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"God is great,
Beer is good, and people are crazy"

I can only speculate on the why's, but there could be several different scenarios.


Ummm...wasn't that what a lot of folks WERE screaming? The first accusation was a big deal, then the second one was worse. He had to have various body parts photographed, his home searched, etc. And it wasn't just "neighbors" screaming, it was way more public.

I think he got put through the works. I don't know if I'm remembering incorrectly or something, but it seemed like this was a HUGE deal at the time. I'm not sure how it's so different, than your "neighbor". I was surprised that as a big celebrity - as it's been pointed out how celebrities don't get anything done to them - that there was so much investigation going on.

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On Micheal Jackson and his life I go back and forth on so many levels. Part of me like Kts I believe he did have a sad life. Part of me like Cjs216 life is all about choices which I firmly stand behind. Part of me like Susiecat fame and fortune is not what it all cracked to be. On a personal view I personally do not believe he molested any child and if , I am proven wrong and truth comes out, then I would be so hurt because any form of child abuse on any level is dead wrong. As far as what he did to himself with all the surgerys and all the medications again life is all about choices and some were clearly bad choices. Again on the same hand from so many movie stars and musicians of our times who choose to go down the road of drugs and pills and alcohol it does come down to sad, because you taking pills to stay awake, pills to go sleep, drugs to numb the pain, whatever that is sad, however again you can turn it around and say there are many movie actors or performers who never did any drugs or pills or alcohol. So again I am still mixed up with his life. All I know is that fame and fortune and all that money is not worth all this mess no way no how. Sadly so sadly many cannot handle it and the end result is a early death... I guess we will never have all the answers whether right or wrong... Peace. Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

He avoided the works a few times too. There were several other children before his trial who accused MJ of molestation but he settled so there were no criminal charges. His most famous settlement was back in 1993 to the tune of TWENTY THREE MILLION DOLLARS!

I know the true blue Michael Jackson fan(atic) will say that he only settled to avoid the negative publicity but NO ONE gives away 23 million dollars to a liar. They can't - they'd have hundreds of lawsuits against them every year once word got out that they're such an easy touch. There was more than smoke around MJ - there was an eternal fire because that child he settled with in '93 wasn't his only accuser either. MJ settled much smaller amounts on the others. And after all those children he paid off went away, he STILL continued to sleep with other young boys in his bed. Very (MJ quote) 'charming'.

My thoughts on MJ are that he was a sick, damaged man-child whose numerous mental problems can't begin to be explained or excused by the perfectly ordinary and common condition of insomnia and a broken nose.

Michael Jackson criticises leak of '93 settlement

I think he had a hard life in the respect that he really couldn't go anywhere without being mobbed. Can you imagine what that must be like? Even with 50 excellent bodyguards, let's say, you are still not alone. Isn't it nice to just run to the corner store alone? Geez, he couldn't even get in his own car because the Paparrazi were always outside, with their long range lenses scoping out his every move. In that regard, I think he had it tough.

His fortune seemed to equal his misfortune. I believe karma evens it all out. But I don't think he needed to die.

I think that dr., whoever he was, the one who administered the 'lethal' dose should be held responsible, manslaughter! He should have KNOWN better than to be administering cr*p like that! Just because MJ was MJ doesn't mean that that stupid doctor had to give into his every whim! And now look what has happened----because of that doctor's irresponsibility, MJ is DEAD! Was it homicide? I truly doubt that....no one had anything to gain by killing MJ. I think it was an accident, but a very very very avoidable accident!

Can someone please clarify something for me?

Ok did I actually hear this right? I heard that the first boy that accused him had come out recently after his death and said that it was all a lie that MJ never did anything wrong to him and that the father of the boy had told him to make up those lies??

I tried to google it but couln't find it,, I thought I heard it somewhere but I am not sure,, can someone clarify please :-)

TIA

I heard that too. But then I also heard that the skin discoloration MJ suffered from, the vittelogo, or whatever it is called, was very very pronounced on his penis and that it could easily be indentified by a child because of the distinct discoloration, and THAT is why MJ started having all of his skin bleached. WHO KNOWS!! But remember, the police DID take pics of his penis back then. What a shame, to have to have to whole world know the cops have pics of your private. Man, how that poor man suffered!

The recant claim was originally made on somebody's BLOG (LOL) and repeated on this board and others until some people thought it was news.

I have mixed feelings about who is responsible for his death. I guess my problem with placing blame on the doctor is that he wasn't holding MJ down and giving him medicine against his will. MJ was killing himself little by little, over a very long period of time. I think his family is too willing to call it *murder*. When in reality, I don't believe it was murder.

Was Elvis' death murder?
No, I don't think so.

And I think the two deaths are very, very similar: The entourages and the MD knew, and chose to do nothing. Or tried to do something and were rebuffed or fired. Both "stars" preferred to surround themselves w/ "yes men" or by individuals who took advantage of them--but also did their "dirty" work (so to speak).

MJ and Elvis had to have known that the medications were potentially fatal. They weren't stupid.
To me, it's almost like they chose to play russian roullette every time they took the pills, or got an injection. It was a risk they were willing to take for whatever reason.

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"God is great,
Beer is good, and people are crazy"

We could name so many who have gone down that road of pills illegial drugs drinking
Micheal Jackson, Elvis, Heath Ledger, John Belusi, Judy Garland, Tammy Wynette, Hank Williams, Marilyn Monroe and on and on so sad so much talent such a waste, again I wonder they have to start somewhere and slow at first I would imagine, but I assume before its too late it gets way out of control and their daily life depends on all this pills and illegial drugs and alcohol to the point of no return. Again we can turn it around and wonder why there are so many other actors or musicians out there who do not turn to all these items. Also remembering the famous 27 legend where all Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison and Kurt Cobain all died of drugs at the age of 27 so so sad. Peace. Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

Well, what about Anna Nicole Smith? Very similar to both Elvis and MJ, and according to FL law, if there is evidence that anyone illegally supplied Smith with the prescription drugs blamed for her death, Florida could press for charges as high as first-degree murder. Florida law says people can be charged with murder if they illegally provide a drug that ends up killing someone. Another possible charge could be manslaughter by culpable negligence.

While I agree that MJ, Elvis and Anna were all adults, weren't stupid (although Anna did a really good job acting that way), and most likely knew they were doing something illegal, shouldn't people supplying illegal material (or as an example, buy, load and educate a "russian roulletter" on how to use the gun and then stand buy and watch them use it, click after click after click) be held to a higher level of copabillity? We currently do the same thing with drunk drivers -- although most drivers don't drink, get in a car, and goes out looking for someone to kill -- we still treat them as murders. Why should these people be treated any differently?

I agree with marilynk on the whole personal responsibility, but I believe there is a social and professional responsibility at work also....as in, just because you are a doctor and can write a perscription, doesn't men your responsibility ends once it is filled.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I believe that Elivs P's doctor had his license taken away. I could be wrong. And I think there are charges pending for the Anna Nicole death.

I don't think it's murder either. But there has to be some responsibility on the docs part who's giving him ivs with deprovan (sp). That's not practicing ethical medicine IMHO and I would think at least negilience or misconduct or something would apply to the doctor.

I think its a fine line. My brother died in Florida about six months ago. It was an accidental prescription overdose. He died at the age of 49....way too young. I would never think of holding his doctor responsible for it. He made his own choices. He had issues with drugs off and on for years. There isn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that it was accidental. Neither my brother or his doctors meant for it to lead to his death. With that being said, I believe you have to take responsibility for what you put into your body.

Some really good points brought up, in the past threads I do believe that the more money you have, you basically can purchase anything like all those drugs all those actors and musicans purchased, was it right for the doctors to keep writing the prescriptions, was it right to keep giving out so much medicine, no way, but again was it right for these people who while they are actors and performers and musicans, they are people just like us , their bodies and ours would react and sumble to death the same way if we all abused those illegial drugs and pills and alcohol. So again I keep coming back to my belief that life is all about choices and either you decide to do it or not. Personally I cannot or never will be able to get into the heads of mind thinking of these individuals we are speaking of, who truly knows why they decided to injest so much illegial or prescription medicine and pain management medicine. Again like Susiecat said and I so agree fame and fortune is sometimes no at all worth it . I also feel and hope I am right that perhaps they think they can continue to live this lifestyle and it would not catch up to them. As many of you that is why I am so againist any usage of illegial drugs or alcohol or even cigarettes I hate them all. I will not lie I do take my xanax as needed for my panic and anxiety attacks. I do take one 20 miligrams of paxil once in the morning and I do take imitrex as needed for those all so lovely migrane headaches and for aches and pains I love advil. But I heard that MJ was taken 40 xanax in a day omg I could never imagine that on top of all the other suppossed medication, he was so skinny I am dearly surprised he lasted as long as he did. Again none of these are facts will have to wait for the toxicology reports. Peace. P/s Tammy so sorry to hear about your brother I agree 49 was way too young bless you and your family... Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

It may be a recent claim, but I had heard and read about it while the outcome of the trial was still fresh. I figured it was over and done with, but I heard that after and I remember thinking what a horrible thing to make a kid do.

<shrug> People are going to believe what they want, no matter what. And frankly, unless we were all there, we can only go by what's presented and how it's presented.

When my friend called me to tell me MJ died, my first thought after "WHAT!?!?" was "Elvis". It's weird how close these scenarios are.

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Here's MTCW....

MJ grew up in a messed-up family. They say you are who you are going to be by the time you are six years old, pretty much.... so for him, that means he was pretty much doomed from an early age. His parents were busy sculpting a persona, not a person. They didn't give him the tool box necessary for him to have become a well-adjusted adult, with the relationship-building qualities necessary to allow people into his life that would benefit him in the way most people do through the healthy relationships they form.

So yeah... he is responsible for his own decisions, but he wasn't a healthy person and wasn't likely to *make* healthy decisions.

I think the doctors are responsible for their own poor judgment. They are board-certified individuals and I would assume that the judgment they used in over-prescribing meds, and prescribing meds that should never have been given to someone like MJ are cause for those Dr's to have their licenses revoked. They make an oath to do no harm, and clearly, they were complicit in giving what he wanted to further his sick needs rather than to further the true health of their patient.

Murder? No.

But cause to re-think their right to practice medicine? You betcha.