Anyone catch this besides me? It was pretty interesting. They interviewed an oby/gyn doctor with a pre-teen daughter and he said he would not give her the shot. He said the old fashioned way (pap smears, etc...) are safer than this vaccine. There have also been 12,424 mild reactions, 772 serious reactions and 32 deaths.

From ABC News' Chief Medical Editor Dr. Timothy Johnson:

Today's issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) contains two articles - and an excellent editorial - addressing the question of whether the benefits of the Gardasil vaccine outweigh its risks. The vaccine is designed to prevent infection by two strains of the HPV (Human Papilloma Virus); these strains are said to account for about 70% of cervical cancer cases. The vaccine is now recommended for 11-12 year old girls before they become sexually active. For the first time in my career, I cannot recommend a vaccine for its intended population -- in this case, young girls. Therefore I am going to say that any parent considering this vaccine for their daughter should read the editorial in JAMA and then talk to their doctor before deciding.

August 18, 2009 |

Pretty strong words from the doc-"for the first time in my career I cannot recommmend a vaccine".

I saw it and read the articles. My pediatrician really pushes this vacine and I've put it off. Finally, she told me that it starts to be less effective after age 16 and so I relented 2 weeks ago and got my 15 1/2 year old the 1st shot. She was pushing me on my 12 year old. I did not get it yet for her. Now I'm second guessing my decision. I almost hate going to their well child checks. I really like this pediatrician, but I'm tired of being pushed on this! BTW, other than a sore arm, she had no reactions to it. The good thing is he isn't saying it's dangerous, just that it may not be as effective as they thought it may be.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
they just make the best of everything they have."

I would be apprehensive with a doctor pushing anything on me!!! Maybe he gets discounts from the med supplier! You just never know these days......

I know, I agree. I was talking to a friend of mine tonight who is a nurse. She has gotten it for both of her daughters. She made me feel better about it. She said she's talked to several friends in the medical profession and they all support it. She said she's never heard that part about it being less effective for older kids, so I wonder about that part. I've never seen that in any of the research I've done, either. Who knows.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
they just make the best of everything they have."

That was one of the main points made when it was first introduced. I can't imagine how she didn't know this. That's why they are pushing it for the younger ages. And pushing is the operative word here. I've seldom seen such a large campaign for a new drug. The minute people start pushing me, I start backing up and asking myself why. I usually find it's more to their benefit than mine.

Gardasel Vaccine on ABC News:
"There have also been 12,424 mild reactions, 772 serious reactions and 32 deaths. "

I'd call that dangerous.

I personally do not take recommendations from anyone. I take suggestions and research them for myself. Take 10 doctors and you'll get 10 answers. JMO

Well, it's not like I can take it back now. All I can do is look at the odds.
"There are 772 serious problems identified in 23 million doses of vaccine," said Dr. Kevin Ault, associate professor of Gynecology and Obstetrics at Emory University. "I usually tell my patients that these serious events are tragic, rare and likely unrelated to the vaccine."

And, this whole report is based on 11-12 year olds. My daughter is 15 1/2. Even if it only lasts 7 years, that gets her through college.

They did make us stay 15 minutes after the vaccine, because of the chance of fainting, but my 12 yo (unexpectedly) nearly fainted last year when she got her tetanus booster, so I guess that isn't really a major concern for me.

My main concern the whole time has been what if it causes infertility issues later. My doctor did assure me that this particular vaccine is for a virus, so it is affecting your immune system, not your reproductive system. So that is not a concern.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
they just make the best of everything they have."

However Cervical cancer is not the only thing that this prevents...

Cervical Cancer and Oral Cancer
There are other forms of HPV which are also sexually transmitted, and are a serious problem. These are; HPV-16, HPV-18, HPV-31, and HPV-45. These cancer-associated types of HPVs cause dysplastic tissue growths that usually appear flat and are nearly invisible. Dysplastic tissue is the presence of abnormal cells on the surface of the skin. Dysplasia is not cancer, but it is a tissue change seen prior to malignancy. A highly studied topic is HPV's ability to cause cervical cancer. Dysplasia can be detected on the female cervix through a Pap smear test, or seen visually using a magnifying glass called a colposcope. The most dangerous HPV's, 16 and 18, which are transmitted through sexual contact are known to cause up to 95% of cervical cancers. Now these two HPV's are also being linked to oral cancer.

A study done by Dr. No-Hee Park showed that the mouth was, at the cellular level, structurally very similar to the vagina and cervix. Both organs have the same type of epithelial cells that are the target of HPV 16 and HPV 18. The majority of oral cancers are cancers of epithelial cells, primarily squamous cell carcinomas, not unlike the cancers that affect the cervix. Dr. Park's study also showed that smoking and drinking alcohol help promote HPV invasion.. Combine tobacco and alcohol with HPV, and the epithelial cells in the mouth, and you may have the formula for the development of an oral cancer.

A recent study conducted by Dr. Maura Gillison at the Johns Hopkins Oncology Center furthered the premise that HPV is linked with certain types of oral cancer. In 25% of 253 patients diagnosed with head and neck cancers, the tissue taken from tumors was HPV positive and HPV 16 was present in 90% of these positive HPV tissues. This information helps to confirm that there is a strong link between HPV 16 and oral cancer. 25% of those diagnosed with oral cancer are non-smokers while the other 75% of those diagnosed have used tobacco in some form during their lifetimes. The research into the relationship of HPV and oral malignancies may give us clues as to the origin of cancer in those 25% of diagnosed individuals who did not smoke. Further research is being conducted into the relationship of HPV with oral cancers.

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Not sure where you got all of this but this vaccine is so new I'm not sure they know anything as an absolute. Even if you get the vaccine you still need to get yearly pap tests, etc... They do not know how long it is effective. There are risks with vaccines and this one is so new it would scare me if I had daughters. You also have to see who is putting out all the info-are they connected with the vaccine makers, etc.... Usually it's about profits. Also, I had previously read that you aren't supposed to have the vaccine if you are already sexually active. If that's true then would a booster work if they find out the original vaccine is only good for, say, 5 years? All too new for me to trust it.

My pediatrician also brought this up. They are expecting to see an increase in esophigal (sp?) cancer in the future.

She also said they are getting ready to start recommending it (or another version - not sure) for boys as well since they are the ones that spread it.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
they just make the best of everything they have."

It is not yet proven that Gardasil actually prevents cervical cancer, which can take a decade to develop after HPV infection, because tests of the vaccine before the FDA greenlighted it didn't run long enough to prove that conclusively. "Even though it guards against two HPV strains, the other HPV types need to be taken into account," Smith-McCune says. "It will take a long time before we know the true efficacy of the vaccine."

Even doctors who helped devise the vaccine point out that Pap screening may be more effective in cutting cervical cancer rates. "If we vaccinate every single 12-year-old, it should reduce by half the number of cervical cancers in the next 35 years," says Dr. Diane Harper, director of the Gynecologic Cancer Prevention Research Group at Dartmouth Medical School in Hanover, N.H., and a lead researcher in the development of the HPV vaccine. "With Pap screening, we've reduced it by nearly 75%."

.

That's all pretty tentative. I still think they are rushing this. But that's just my opinion.

I work in a very large cancer center where alot of research is conducted. In the past five years alone, aprox 75% of mouth cancers in people aged 18-30 were caused from HPV.

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Wow that's news to me. What state are you in? How are these mouth cancers detected and how many are we talking about? I thought it took years and years for cancer from HPV to show up. 18 seems pretty young.
I just googled it and read a lot about it-seems to hit men a lot more. I guess that just means we need to preach abstinence even more!!

I had my daughter in the office the other day and the doctor kept pushing us about it. My daughter said she did not want it and I was not real comfy, so we said no. It is her body and she is old enough to have a say in it. I just had an uneasy feeling all along anyway.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

Dentists are trained to detect mouth cancers/ailments, so I would guess they are detecting or suspecting and referring out, a lot of these cases??

18-30 year olds are certainly able to be married. I guess you are assuming all these people are unmarried and having pre-marital sex?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

No that's not what I meant. Usually it takes years for a cancer to develop so I was thinking an 18 yr old is pretty young to have already developed a cancer like this.
As far as my abstinence remark-I think oral sex has been "promoted" as a safer sexual activity for teens, etc... I know in high school here teens think that oral and/or an** sex will keep them from getting pregnant so is prevelant but it won't keep them disease free. Hence, back to abstinence as being the "safest" sex! lol

some cancers do not take "YEARS" to develop. Aggressive cancers can manifest in mere weeks. It really depends on the type and form of cancer.

As for abstinence....yes, it is the safest; HOWEVER, in teaching abstinence, teaching how and when to use condoms is very, very important. Ignoring something (premarital sex/teenage sex) will not make it go away.

__________________
"God is great,
Beer is good, and people are crazy"

My 12 year old got her shots last year. She didn't want to get it because there were 3 shots and not just one. Now she is done with all her shots and booster shots for awhile. I wasn't just worried about her having sex which I hope doesn't happen for many, many years. But there are so many nuts out there that something beyond her controll could happen. Then it could be too late for the shot to do any good.

I know that some cancers can happen/progress quickly however I had read that HPV causing cervical cancer took years to develop. I found this on Webmd:

You can have HPV for years and not know it. It stays in your body and can lead to cervical cancer years after you were infected. This is why it is important for you to have regular Pap tests. A Pap test can find changes in cervical cells before they turn into cancer. If you treat these cell changes, you may prevent cervical cancer.

Having read this kind of info on the cervical cancer/hpv connection I just thought 18 was pretty young for cancers to be showing up from HPV exposure. I hope everyone is aware that you still need to have yearly pap tests if you are sexually active and have had the vaccines.

From the CDC website:

A large study that covered 83% of the U.S. population during 1998–2003 estimated that about 24,900 HPV-associated cancers occur each year. More than 17,300 HPV-associated cancers occur yearly in women, and almost 7,600 occur yearly in men. Cervical cancer is the most common HPV-associated cancer among women, and head and neck (oral cavity and oropharyngeal) cancers are the most common HPV-associated cancers among men. The following counts are from this study.


Because these numbers are based on 83% of the U.S. population, they may under-represent the actual number of cancers diagnosed during this time period. Also, this study used cancer registry data to estimate the amount of potentially HPV-associated cancer in the United States by examining cancer in parts of the body and cancer cell types that are more likely to be caused by HPV. Cancer registries do not collect data on the presence or absence of HPV in cancer tissue at the time of diagnosis.

Although nearly all cervical cancers are caused by HPV, cancer in some other areas of the body discussed on the page are often, but not always, caused by HPV. In general, HPV is thought to be responsible for about 90% of anal cancers and about 40% of vulvar, vaginal, and penile cancers.1 Cancers of the head and neck are usually caused by tobacco and alcohol, but recent studies show that about 25% of mouth and 35% of throat cancers are caused by HPV.2

References
1Parkin DM, Bray F. Chapter 2: The burden of HPV-related cancers. Vaccine 2006;24(suppl 3):S11–S25.

2Kreimer AR, Clifford GM, Boyle P, Franceschi S. Human papillomavirus types in head and neck squamous cell carcinomas worldwide: A systematic review. Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention 2005;14(2):467–475.


And I am in Ohio
And no no no cancers do not take years. That is a common myth.

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Seriously SOME cancers take years to develop.

Actually they take years to show symptoms and become a problem, not to develop. All that takes is one cell that goes haywire and PRESTO cancer is there. Believe me, I work with cancer every day.

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Be careful what you wish for.....

After visiting my daughter's doctor, who I totally trust, I said yes to this. We have also had several friends close to us pass away from cancer (the youngest one being 8 years old) You have to get several shots. After the first shot (my daughter is not a crier) she nearly broke down. The area around her arm was more than just sore for nearly two months. We were in the process of moving and I did not follow up for the rest of the shots. The pain that she suffered in the area of the shot was more than just a little sore and I was trusting what my daughter was feeling.

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Ok if they can "take years to show symptoms and become a problem" aren't they in fact developing during this time? And there are extremely slow growing cancerous tumors. I think with most cancers you aren't fine on Monday and have a cancerous tumor by Friday. Fox example, don't some types of breast cancers start miniscule and slowly grow? It may take a while for it to grow big enough for detection but it's still cancerous as it grows.

Here are two examples of "slow-growing" types of cancer.
Appendix Cancer

Also called gastrointestinal carcinoid tumor. This is an indolent (slow-growing) cancer that forms in cells that make hormones in the lining of the gastrointestinal tract (the stomach and intestines). Quite often it occurs in the appendix (a small fingerlike pouch of the large intestine), small intestine, or rectum. Our experience has shown that having gastrointestinal carcinoid tumor increases the risk of forming other cancers of the digestive system. In all cases daily sessions of Biophotonic light would be imperative as well as some Emotional Re-Mapping along with the Budwig Formula.
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Carcinoid Tumour

It often occurs in the appendix, small intestine, or rectum. If you have gastrointestinal carcinoid tumor this increases the risk of forming other cancers of the digestive system. Carcinoid tumor is an indolent (slow-growing) cancer that forms in cells that make hormones in the lining of the gastrointestinal tract (the stomach and intestines). All tumors are treated with the successful Budwig protocol. In all cases of Cancer daily sessions of Biophotonic light would be imperative as well as some Emotional Re-Mapping.
Top >>>

" I think with most cancers you aren't fine on Monday and have a cancerous tumor by Friday" You have this wrong.. there are MANY more fast growing cancers then slow. Head and neck cancers, thyroid, pancreas, some of the lymphoma, leukemia, breast cancers, lung, bone and some of the brain cancers. For example Glioblastomas can literally double their size in a weeks time. And the way you stated this is completely wrong.
Once the cells are in you and replicating, you are no longer fine. And the tumor starts on Monday if you want to use your week as the example, it may just take until Friday to appear or be noticed so to speak.

Oh and your example of appendix cancer and carcinoid tumors are one in the same example.

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Yes I know there are many fast growing cancers or people wouldn't be dying from them!!!! I may not be writing down what I mean in the right scientific terms but I still think cancers CAN BE slow growing. What about men that live with prostate cancer for years and years? Obviously that's not doubling in weeks or they wouldn't be able to live for years with it. My friends wife is starting year 6 with Stage 4 breast cancer so it's obviously not doubling, etc... or she would have died by now. That's 5 full years living with cancer, it's not spreading but it's not gone either.

I get really angry when reading scare tactic posts like this. All vaccines that are new are going to have mixed results. The Polio vaccine took years to perfect. Development of Polio Vaccines

But, there was a problem with the original Salk vaccine. The vaccine actually induced 260 cases of poliomyelitis, including 10 deaths.

We elected to have our daughter, Nicole, vaccinated last year (at 15) after a mutual discussion of the pros and cons. She has had no side effects at all.

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Forgiveness is love in its most noble form. -Anonymous

It wasn't meant to be a "scare tactic" post. It was on the news and I like heath related stuff so I posted it. There are all kinds of pros and cons to vaccines. Just like all the people who think autism is related to vaccines. Some adverse affects aren't known for years, some right away, sometimes there aren't any, etc....Just a topic for discussion. I got the swine flu vaccine back in the 70's which kind of turned out to be a mess! My kids both reacted to the DPT shots and were not given the whole series of shots because of it.

" What about men that live with prostate cancer for years and years" They live with it because it is one of the easiest to treat.

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Be careful what you wish for.....

I agree with you, Kathy. I'm not having my daughter vaccinated right now. The protection this vaccine affords isn't worth the risk, IMO, at this time.

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Reading is Fundamental.

I'm glad this topic is being discussed. I just got my daughter the first of the three shots about a month ago. I saw the report on Good Morning America and it upset me very much. This post has helped me quite a bit to weigh the pros and cons of whether we should get the 2nd and
3rd shots as well. I am still undecided, but now I have a lot more information that I can use to make my decision. Thanks everyone for takilng up both sides of this issue.

I had HPV for several years, it never did develop into cancer, I did have two minor surgeries to try to get rid of it, but it didn't go away. My GYN monitored it with pap smears every 6 months. When I had my last pregnancy 14 years ago, it went away on it's own, as is common with pregancy I was told, and I have never had any further problems.

When this vaccine came out I went back and forth whether to get it for my now 13 year old. I did ALOT of research on my own and came to the decision to NOT get it. I waited until they had some statistics before deciding and the deaths and the paralysis, even though they are only a few made me decide against it. That could be my daughter dead or paralyzed. It is just too new for me. I am not one that is against vaccines at all, my daughter has had all the vaccines including extra ones that are not required like flu, pneumona and meningitis, but this one I am just not comfortable with.

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