To me he was a wonderful honorable man who when you think of the name Kennedy his name comes to my mind. He stood for equal rights, for better health issurance, for peace, he was behind alot having to do with the 9/11 memorial and honestly to me a sincere and easy going and soft spoken yet with a powerful Irish history behind him. The most I admired was that he stepped in and helped raise and was there for his many nieces and nephews who lost their dads his brothers. To me he will be sadly missed it was so nice that the Boston Red Sox paided a moment of silence for him.. May he rest in peace.. Please please no flaming this is not about politics only to offer my condolences for a man I personally admired thanks so much. Now all 4 brothers are together in heaven. Catherine

__________________
in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

I am watching the coverage on TV and I am so impressed with the number of people that have lined the streets for his motorcade all the way from Cape Cod to Boston to honor his memory. He was well-loved here in Massachusetts. They are saying they may keep the Kennedy Library open all night to accommodate some of the crowds that they expect.

Guess he is havin' a discussion with Mary Jo right about now.

lol That's what I've been thinking about. Yes he was a Kennedy and had a career of public service but he's certainly not a saint. He was a womanizer with an alcohol problem who got away with causing a death. You are I wouldn't have gotten away with leaving the scene of an accident that caused a death. Didn't he also "help" his nephew that was charged with rape? The Kennedys have contributed much to society but also have quite a few demons. Having said that, I have prayed for the repose of his soul.

Joking about the death of a young woman is sick. You're not funny. Kennedy was driving. It was an accident.

Lots of rich and powerful people get away with murder (literally)--I think a measure of a man/person is not necessarily the "demons" they have, but how they try to conquer those demons.

Really, I think laughing and joking about the dead is in poor taste.

__________________
"God is great,
Beer is good, and people are crazy"

I don't see anyone laughing and joking.. It's the truth... Kennedy caused her death.. instead of helping her, he left the scene.. That cost him from ever running for president. No one has forgotten it.

As far as a person, God rest his soul.

__________________
"GO HOKIES!"

Read KTS's lovely and heartfelt contribution. No one is denying that Kennedy caused the accident. He did try to rescue her.

It's kind of hard to forget something that the GOP brings up every 15 minutes.

Never ever said the late senator Ted Kennedy was a saint and nor were his brothers I firmly believe there are so many many people who are politicans did many wrong things in their lives , hopefully they also did wonderful things that they contributed to the country and on this final note I personally feel the late senator Ted Kennedy did just this. Peace. Catherine

__________________
in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

I do not see any joking.
Mary Jo and her family weren't laughing either. He left the scene of the accident and didn't return to the accident scene until the next day/or morning. The accident happened at night.
He did a lot for the political scene but he was paid for that. He assisted his extended families but that is something that extended families do every day.
He would have been in jail had his name been anything other than Kennedy. He was just a man and for that reason alone RIP.

I'm not joking about anything. If Mary Jo were your daughter would you be satisfied with how he acted? Left her in the car in the water until it was discovered later in the day? Never bothering to get help but worrying about how it would affect him and the Kennedys? I still remember hearing about it back when it happened. Also everyone knows the Kennedy "boys" were womanizers. That's nothing new. Neither is Ted's drinking. So I don't know why you are so upset about the facts. I do hope he rests in peace.

Ok I reread my post and maybe I shouldn't have put the lol on there. It was more like a "ah ha", someone is going to say something truthful about him and that he wasn't a perfect person. etc.. Whenever I hear of Ted Kennedy that's the first thing I think of. Maybe it's because I was growing up when John, Bobby and Martin Luther King were all killed. Then there was the Teddy scandal when I was 12. Maybe if he had acted responsibly it wouldn't have stuck in my head for so long. Which reminds me, I love that Abraham, Martin and John song. Anyone remember that? I remember buying the "45" when it came out!

He did not try to rescue her. He left the scene, went back to his hotel and got a good nights sleep, while she suffocated as the air pocket around her ran out of oxygen a couple of hours after the accident happened.

This has nothing to do with party-line politics, as far as I am concerned. He was responsible for a woman's death and got away with murder because he had money and connections.

From politicsdaily.
Sometime late at night after an evening of drinking, Kennedy and Kopechne went for a drive in his 1967 Oldsmobile. Kennedy placed the time he left at 11:15 p.m. A local cop who believed he saw the car put the time at 12:40 a.m. – significant at the time because Kennedy testified that he was taking Kopechne to a ferry that ran to Edgartown, a ferry that stopped running at midnight. In any event, Kennedy wasn't headed toward the ferry landing when his car careened off Dike Bridge and into the inlet known as Poucha Pond; they were heading toward the beach.

Kennedy got out of the car alive, Mary Jo Kopechne did not. He said he dived down several times to try and rescue her, before walking back to the cottage where his friends were staying. To do so, he passed at least four houses with working telephones, including one 150 yards from the accident with a porch light on – as well as a firehouse with a pay phone. When he got to the cottage, none of the women were told what happened. According to the 763-page coroner's inquest, this was just the first of a series of appalling decisions Kennedy made that night, decisions that stretch credulity.

First of all, he and two of the men, a cousin named Joseph Gargan and a friend named Paul Markham say they returned to the bridge to try and rescue Mary Jo. (If the Edgartown constable who believes he saw Kennedy was accurate, this was impossible.) Next, the men claimed that they drove Kennedy to the Chappaquiddick ferry landing, where he told them not to tell the other women for fear that they would try to rescue Mary Jo – at great peril to themselves – and assured them that he would report the incident to authorities. Then, the men said, Kennedy dove into the water and swam across the sound to Edgartown himself.

Upon reaching Edgartown, Kennedy went to his room at a local inn – it was now 2:25 a.m., -- where he spent the night, and the following morning engaged in small talk about sailing with a local yachter and agreed to have breakfast with the man when Gargan and Markham showed up about 7:30. They asked him who he'd called about the accident only to receive the astounding reply: no one. Kennedy explained it this way at the inquest: "I just couldn't gain the strength within me, the moral strength, to call Mrs. Kopechne at 2 in the morning and tell her that her daughter was dead." But he hadn't called the cops, either, and wouldn't until 9 a.m.

Not reporting a fatal traffic accident is a felony in most places. On Martha's Vineyard, if the driver is a Kennedy, it's not even a matter of official curiosity: The local police chief never even asked Kennedy why he waited nine hours to report what had happened. The state of Massachusetts, citing Kennedy's excessive speed on the bridge, suspended his license for six months. That was it.



I'm sure some people feel this should not mark this mans life. To some extent that's true but it's certainly something I will never forget. I read another article that stated the diver who recovered her body thought she might have been alive for up to two hours in the car in an air bubble. Had help been called immediately she might have lived. So I personally feel he got away with negligent homicide, manslaughter or something similar to that. It's just not something a person can forget that easily.

How can you possible forget something that is brought up every 15 minutes? There remains nothing funny about this young woman's death. I do not know how long she took to die but I would regard the opinion of a diver as pure speculation. I have also heard that she was driving.

I don't think that he could have saved her no matter what he did. I think that I might have become a drunk if I had lost 2 siblings in war and 2 others murdered.

I think that he did an awful lot of good in his life and left the world a much better place.

So, the GOP brings this up every 15 min.? Wow, this is the first I've heard of it in a LONG LONG time, probably at least 10 years, so I don't know where you are getting that from.

Check out the last election thread. It was certainly brought up there a time or two. It's brought up every single time Kennedy was in the spotlight and considering the type of power he wielded, he was in the spotlight a lot.

Fox wouldn't shine a light on a Democrat willingly.

You never did answer how you would feel if Mary Jo had been your daughter. I bet you would feel differently.
This was a big deal. It's part of his history so naturally it's going to come up. The Kennedys have alot of demons, that's well known. When a person dies at your hands and you are a public figure it's hard to forget and in memory of Mary Jo it shouldn't be forgotten. If the Bush family had as many demons as the Kennedys don't you think we'd hear about that constantly?

Okay honestly I started this thread not to bring up all the demons and all the problems and all the wrong doings the Kennedy family has been plagued with since the beginning of time. Like I said many of them especially the Joe the father and his three sons John, Edward, and Ted were involved in alot of issues over the years. I never said he was a saint and far from one. However I personally believe that he and many other members of the Kennedy family did many wonderful things for our country to make it a better place. This thread was to express my concern and condolenses for the loss of a man I am sad that has passed. It has been reported that all living presidents will attend his private memorial service and that President Obama will lead the eulogy. Peace. Catherine

__________________
in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

And may he rest in peace!

You mean like when Laura Bush ran a stop sign and killed a classmate? I don't hear about that too often.

__________________
Support our Troops - Drive a fuel-efficient car

Laura Bush did not run for public office. She was a 17 yo minor and she was not drunk when she had the accident. The situation was much different.

I didn't say she ran for office. Someone made a comment about the Bush FAMILY, so I responded. No, she wasn't drunk. I doubt the family of her classmate miss their son any less because Laura was reckless.

__________________
Support our Troops - Drive a fuel-efficient car

As far as demons go, somebody pointed out that rich people get away with murder all the time. Had Joseph Kennedy not been incapacitated, none of us would have ever known anything. I think that these boys had a lot of trouble being faithful because that's the example that was set for them.

Had Mary Jo been my daughter, I would have felt devastated. Would I want revenge? No, I would not. Would I want to be reinded every 15 minutes? No, I would not. It was a tragic accident. They happen. It's no different than the boy Laura Bush killed. Neither accident was on purpose.

The Bush family has a lot of blood on its hands. They even have treason in their past.

No parent should ever have to suffer the pain and heartache of burying a child, but there is a big difference between sombody involved in an accident that resulted in a death and somebody whose self preservation and lack of regard for another person's life resulted in a death.

Perfectly said!

And he was supposed to save her exactly how? I have extreme doubts that there were 2 hours of air in the car. Were you there? Did you witness the accident?

I think that we can conclude that you were not there. You said nothing that leads me to believe that Mary Jo could have been saved. You have said nothing to make me think that you know what you're talking about,

You say that he was interested in self preservation. Why would he not have saved this woman if it was possible? As KTS said, it did cost him the presidency.

Well, for starters, he could have called the authorities for help.

from:
Ted Kennedy: The Senator of Sleaze who was a drunk sexual bully... and left a young woman to die | Mail Online

His quest for self preservation is demonstrated by his going back to his hotel room (presumably to allow the effects of the alcohol to wear off), and calling his family and lawyers during that time rather than taking action right away to try and save his Mary Jo.

I probably shouldn't be shocked that there are people who think that because she may have already been dead that it's not that big a deal that he just went back to his hotel room and left her there, submerged, without so much as a tip to the police... But I am.

By the way... Laura bush did not kill anyone in an accident. Laura Welch did. She didn't have a high powered connection and yet the authorities chose not to charge her... FWIW.

GWB was picked up for a DWI and could probably just as easily have found himself in the same pickle as Ted. It would be interesting to know how he would have handled it. Guess we'll never know.

My, what an unbiased article you dug up! How clever. Pardon my skepticism, but you aren't dealing with facts here. I have never heard that he knew Ms. Kopechne well. I do not think that is true. Odd that you would refer to her as "his Mary Jo". How long had they been seeing each other seriously? Had he sexually bullied her into getting in the car? What proof do you have that he was drunk? What proof do you have that he was driving? What proof do you have that he just shrugged his shoulders and walked away? Would I be correct in answering, "none"?

Saving her would have been the thing that made things easier for him. Calling her, "his ary Jo" is just the oddest thing that I have ever seen.

GWB deliberately murdered more than a million Iraqis. You lose.

Kvmg thanks so much for last quote, how true how true. Again I will say I am so sorry I started this thread, this thread was suppossed to me about anyone else who like me who wanted to leave a message of condolenses for another member of the Kennedy clan who passed away it was not suppossed to me about all these other quotes. And again I will say I am not happy that President Obama has not started removing our troops from Iraq where they were sent by George W. Bush. I can speak the truth , proud liberal Democrat not proud that our troops are still there and not proud that they ever went. So sorry to other posters here that this thread went totally off track. Again may Senator Ted Kennedy rest in peace with his family. Peace. Catherine

__________________
in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

First of all, "his Mary Jo" was a typo (just like your typo here "his ary Jo" . It should of just said Mary Jo.

You are right, I do not think that he knew her really well. I think she thought she was getting a ride home from a party but he had other ideas in mind.

As far as whether he was drunk or not, we will never know, because he left the scene of the accident. Based on his history with alcohol, the fact that he had been at a party serving alcohol and that he didn't report the accident until enough time had passed for any alcohol to leave his system, I would say I feel pretty confident in my belief that he was drunk, but again, we will never know definitively because, he left the scene of the accident.

Are you kidding me? One of his strongholds in his address to the public was that he wasn't driving drunk. I don't think there is any doubt that he was driving, that is of course, unless he was too drunk to remember whether he was driving or not. He even went so far as to admit his lack of reporting the incident right away was "indefensible".

If you don't like my source of information, then do the research for yourself. You will find plenty of articles that state the same or very similar things.

Here's a link to Ted Kennedys actual speech concerning this:
American Rhetoric: Ted Kennedy -- Chappaquiddick Speech
Maybe you won't believe his words either?

Thanks for the link KTS. Guess that pretty much clears up any doubts somebody might have as to whether or not he was driving the car.

Sadly for someone like the late Senator Ted Kennedy who fought for civil rights, economic well being of all Americans and most important his wish was health coverage for all of us Americans and here we are trashing a dead person. Truly sad..Peace please tia. Catherine

__________________
in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

I'm not sure we are "trashing him". I don't think I've seen any name calling, etc.. just presenting some facts from the mans past. Just like in the death of Michael Jackson these men both have "colorful histories". You can't bring up just one side of the life of someone famous and not present all parts, especially when their pasts are so dramatic. As I've said many times, may they rest in peace.

Yes, different. Laura's act was covered up far better than Kennedy's.

We don't know if she was drunk, because she was never tested.

We do know that Kennedy was charged. Laura Welch wasn't.

We know that Michael Douglas's father (bet you didn't even know his name, did you?) witnessed Laura Welch kill his son. Thank God the Kopechnes were spared that.

We know that Laura Welch blew a stop sign that was clearly marked on a clear night. Kennedy drove off a narrow bridge without guardrails in the dark.

Both acts were tragedies for the victims. But Laura Welch was no victim, she was every bit as guilty as Kennedy was. The difference is that Kennedy had the guts to face the music and to publicly apologize. Laura Welch Bush skated off scot-free.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

Thank you Truble2301. Well said.

He says that nothing immoral went on, so the allegation of sexual bullying seems unfounded. She had worked on Bobby's campaign. I don't see any reason to refer to her as "his" Mary Jo. There's no mention of drink so the allegation of drunkenness has no relevance. He made repeated dives trying to save her, then returned to the cottage for help. Doesn't sound like he callously disregarded the predicament this woman was in.

It was an accident and nothing more.

.

Laura Welch was questioned at the scene and released. Kennedy was charged with leaving the scene of the accident. Something even he admitted doing.

What's your point, that one parent's pain of losing a child was worse than the other's? I would think the discovery of claw marks on the roof of the car as your daughter slowly suffocated would be pretty upsetting to a parent, though.

Yes, that's what happened. A seventeen yo, inexperienced, driver had an accident that, tragically, changed the lives of many. I would hope that we, as a society, aren't going to start locking up all the teenagers in this country when they make a mistake.

How come when you talk about LW's accident, she is guilty because it happened on a clear night, but when you talk about Kennedy, he was not negligent because it was in the dark? Aren't they both in the night?

I don't know if I would agree that Kennedy faced the music. Two months suspended sentence is not much of punishment for what he did.

The area was remote. There was no 9/11. The cell phone had not yet been invented. He had to have known that she was already dead when he left to get help. Nobody can hold their breath forever. I hope you can see that the circumstances are very different from your son's.

He was right to try and save her himself.

But, go ahead and damn him if you like. Forget all the good that he managed to accomplish.

It's a free country again.

I'd like a cite for that, since I can't locate one news report that says that. What I can locate says her BAC was never tested. She was never charged. She ran a stop sign -- how do you get released without ANY charges?

Can't deal with what I say, so you make stuff up? Do you really think it wouldn't be worse to actually witness your child's homicide? Both are awful; witnessing the crime would be worse, IMO.


You got a cite that supports that claim, that Ms. Kopechne's parents saw such marks? Or are you just making up more stuff?

Only when they kill someone, how about that? Laura Welch's accident didn't just change lives -- it ended a life.

Right, they're exactly the same, you can have this one if you like. I'm sure you don't recognize the difference between a flat piece of land and a narrow bridge without a guardrail, either.

Two months more than Laura Welch did, though, isn't it?

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

This is how I feel, too.

I feel much more sadness at the death of two local fireman who lost their lives this week in the line of duty

Murder? You really think that he set out that night intent on killing Mary Jo?

Why can't you feel sad for both? I think both are great losses to our country.

My son is a volunteer fireman -- as his mother, I appreciate your sadness at the loss of two brave men in service to their town.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

It's typical for some people to try to take the negative focus off one of their own by bringing Laura Welch-Bush into the picture.

It's apples and oranges. One is/was an elected public servant one is not.

Just because you are a Kennedy does not make you a great man. John and Bobby were great men. Teddy was not.

I'm not going to list the reasons I think he was not great, he's dead, it's over.

__________________
Mary

One served time for the crime, one got away with it. But I'll remember your distinction next time some on this board decide to jump all over Michelle Obama, as they love to do.

Just because you are a Bush does not make you a great person. Oh, wait. I can't think of any Bushes who are great people. Never mind.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

I rest my point.

__________________
Mary

Seriously? You consider a cheating, lying man "great"? I don't know as much about Bobby, but John-boy was quite the philanderer--and he was the President. I don't think his behaviour and actions make him a great man.

Did Ted Kennedy leave the scene? Yep. But consider the following: could he have been in psychogenic shock? Could he have hit his head in the accident? Could either or both of those caused a lapse in judgment? Also, perhaps Ted did contact someone for help--and that someone covered it up to protect Ted. No one of us really knows.

__________________
"God is great,
Beer is good, and people are crazy"

Then why didn't he call the police right away for help? That's what a person does. Why didn't the friends he went back with call for help? So much more than "just and accident".

What we agree on something again?? I think public service wise the Kennedys have contributed significantly but their personal lives have been a mess. I would not put the tag "great" on any of the Kennedy men without clarification as to what area I am referring to.
Yes, he left the scene but he had enough judgment to go get his friends, etc... And what about the friends behavior? Why didn't they call for help?. There was a cottage with lights on nearby that Ted could have gone to right away instead of going back to his friends. I don't think he was in that much shock to be able to do all the other things he did, mostly protecting himself!

I can't believe anyone can see these situations like you have stated. Kenndey, by his own words, has admitted how badly he handled the situation. He was a grown man who made continual errors in judgment, even had his friends he called covering up for him. Laura had just turned 17, was driving another girlfriend to a party and ran a stop sign. A horrible tragedy. But she didn't run away. She didn't try to cover anything up. She didn't leave a victim helpless for hours. Unfortunately this is not unusual for teens to have accidents like this. They are young and inexperienced. You can't say that about Ted at his age-wasn't he 28 or so? That's so much different than a just turned 17 yr old.

And to the comment that TK so wonderfully made this big public apology and LW did not...

LW was a high school kid with no cameras in her face and no political aspirations. In what venue might she have been expected to make a grandiose public apology? Who beyond those in her town were clamoring for an explanation? What reporters were camped outside her door with microphones?

I would imagine - and I have nothing to cite - that she felt immediate fear and remorse, and that TK's first thought was, "CRAP! What do I do now???"

Kennedy did not run away. If he tried to cover things up, he sure did a lousy job. He didn't leave a "helpless victim"; he had to know that she was dead.

Ok, we get it. Ted Kennedy had an accident. Because he was a Democrat, the accident was completely irresponsible and completely unforgivable. It was probably deliberate.

Laura Welch, who is a Republican, runs a stop sign; has an accident which results in a death. It's entirely forgivable. She was very responsible for a 17 year old. We forgive her.

Seriously folks; both of these were accidents. Ted and Laura were at fault.

It's not unusual for teens to kill their friends? Dang, glad my kids don't hang out with yours.

Your allegation that nothing was covered up in the Welch killing is completely unsupported. People don't run stop signs, kill people and walk away scot-free without a cover-up.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

I sure don't know what world you live in..........ACCIDENTS at that age are not all that unusual. Read the statistics for teen drivers. Geesh, you really don't understand that??? ACCIDENTS happen, there aren't always charges. Ted left the scene of an accident and never called for help. He was a grown man for heavens sakes.

A moment's inattention.

That's all it takes.

The results are the same - another person is dead.

Neither TK or LW woke up on the days of their separate tragedies with the intent to do harm to another person. I firmly believe that.

The mindset we develop about guilt or innocence, about extending mercy or forever regarding someone with suspicion, absent some reason to feel an alliance (political, religious, famalial, etc) with someone, is typically based upon historical behaviors, intent, and reaction.

I have to believe that if these accidents both happened today and that a couple of unknowns had been behind the wheels, the key facts we would have in mind are these:

Age and experience of the guilty
Events leading up to the crashes
Behavior immediately afterwards

When I hear of a high school student who was the driver of a car that was involved in an accident in which others died, I think two things:

1) There but for the grace of God go I. I remember being a new driver and some of the stupid things I did because I didn't have the experience and wisdom to recognize how fleeting life is, and that I was in charge of what could be a weapon of destruction. I wasn't a bad driver and I didn't have any accidents, but I easily could have. Squealing with friends about the cute boy we just passed, changing the radio station because a song I hated came on, being engrossed in conversation with my passenger and feeling completely at home behind the wheel... which can mean being inattentive... yep. I am sure that would have described me on more than one occasion. I am sure that could have described ANY of us at some time.

2) Please, God, don't let my child ever be in such an accident, either as the passenger or the driver. My kids have good, solid, incredible, caring hearts... but the reality is that they are inexperienced drivers who are going to goof up. In fact, my son did just the other day. He has a permit and was following another car through a series of red lights... one, two, three lights... and he didn't see that the fourth light was in the process of turning red just as that 'lead car' drove on through. And my son followed. And I reacted and yelled, "STOP!" And he was pretty mortified. He hadn't been behaving irresponsibly and recklessly... and yet he could have caused an accident. There were no cars coming... but that was completely luck. He is as guilty as LW was that day, if you want to get right down to it.

I hope those of you who would have had her crucified for that accident are surrounded by individuals who will show you and your child mercy if ever he or she is responsible for such an accident.

For what it's worth, I do think LW should have been charged with something. I cannot say why she was not. If it was a small town and everyone knew everyone, perhaps she had a reputation for doing an incredible amount of good in her community and nobody wanted to see her suffer any more than she already was from the guilt she was carrying. We can only speculate. Coming from a small town where things like that happened a time or two, I can only guess that either she or her family were well-loved and nobody wanted to see a promising young person marred any more than they already were, given that there was no ill intent or malice involved in the tragedy their inattention caused.

Just pray it never happens to you or your children or the kids they hang out with that you know and love.

You are almost funny with your posts!! He HAD TO know she was dead? He is a coroner? If he was hit in the head and didn't have enough where-with-all to call for help, which is his excuse, you think he had enough judgment to declare her dead? And YOU know this how? You totally dismiss the evidence from the diver, etc... No one said it was deliberate. While I agree they were both accidents it's how the drivers handled it that makes all the difference. Ted Kennedy admits he did not handle it properly. Oh wait, I guess you know better than Teddy himself.

closed thread...........post limit exceeded

__________________