Unbelievable. Mass. just elected Rep. Scott Brown for the Senate. What an interesting turn of events.

Opinions...

Did Coakley sink herself? Did Brown win on his own merits, or did the Dems help him get elected? Will health care bill still fly? very, very interesting....

I'll have to learn a bit more about Mr. Brown....

__________________
Melissa

That's the best news I've heard in a year! I can't wait for November!!!! I'll be smiling for a week! Scott Brown is my new hero!

Lisa

__________________
"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

He's my new hero too as are the independents in Mass.!!! Now the big question is will he get sworn in before the health care vote? I actually heard on CNN of all places that it would not be good if the Dems DID NOT swear him in before the vote. I think the Dems will look really bad and really scared if they don't swear him in soon. Afterall, the voters have spoken.

You can bet they are looking at every strategy, what the fallout will be for going either way. It really is going to be fascinating to watch...

__________________
Melissa

As I just posted on my fb

"Well Mass. lost the dem senate seat. Could the Dems be anymore of an ineffective cluster f---? Here's to hoping they'll get their $hit together and accomplish something worthwhile this year. Not holding my breath."

Seriously Coakley was a terrible candidate. The Dems got complacent and assumed the seat would automatically be theirs.

__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Yep I am happy!!!! People can finally see the light!

__________________
SAHM of Bailey 12, Tyler 10 , Emily Ann 6, and Ryan Matthew 4 yrs old.

Wonders never cease!!!!! Love Scott Brown and his truck!!!!! He is also my new hero!!!! Just a little advice to the dem's running in 2010 and 2012, dont have Kerry,Clinton or Obama come stump for you and most of all dont be so rude and snide and forgoodness sake Dont make fun of a man's truck!!!!!! Especially while your flying in your planes.....screaming GO GREEN!!! Hypocrits

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

I am not happy one bit, he won the race to replace the late Senator Ted Kennedy.A win for Scott Brown to me most likely means healthcare is gone, he is againist healthcare reform which I am not. He is againist Gay Marriage which I am not. Republicans are for less taxes, yet during the Bush Administration he bankrupted the national treasury. He wants to lower taxes, kindly tell me what government services will be able to achieve that???. So sorry Coakley did not win. No peace here not for him.. Catherine

Hyprocrites you got that right a whole bunch of them. Bush, Cheney, Rush Limburgh and of course that lady from Alaska Sarah Palin yeah I sure want another years horrible horrible worse years of my life when ex President Bush was president, they told us 9/11 was caused by a country who was hiding mass means of destruction and now all these years later, we are none better all those countless innocent American lifes lost here and all those innocent Iraqi people who lost their lives and all the billions of dollars Bush spend on the war that should have never ever ever started and yet people still praise him and his cohorts .Again before Bush/Cheney took office we as a great Nation the United States of America had a surplus and when Bush left , he left this country is a total mess in a huge debt . Yet you still have hatred for Obama and still are not happy and still think, he can magically cross his fingers and make all the mess Bush left behind go away. He has no much money and his family and so does Cheney in my personal view more and could care less now about the state of our country is in. They are gone and gone they should be. Obama just like Kennedy and Lincoln I deeply admire you 100 percent and do dearly proud to be a Liberal Left wing Democrat forever. Peace to our troops and please bring them all home safely. Catherine

First of all, somebody had to replace Ted Kennedy. It doesn't automatically get to be a Dem because Kennedy was.

Many, many people are against the kind of health care reform that is being proposed. Yes, our health care system needs to be fixed, it's just that what is being proposed is not seen as a fix by most of the country.

Gay marriage is a hot button issue, to put it nicely. Not exactly sure where Brown stands on this. I will find out though. I'm curious. There are many nuances to the gay marriage issue.

Yes, Republicans would like less taxes and less government. Government services are not a right or necessarily the answer to every ones problems.

Compared to what Obama is proposing, what Bush did to the "national treasury" is nothing. lol

Sorry you aren't happy Catherine. I think that people are ready to head towards the center, and that's all there is to it.

__________________
Melissa

Who said they hated Obama???? wow

__________________
Melissa

Honestly do you seriously thinks no one here on the boards hate Obama just look at Sher's avatar, I would never in a million years make that kind of avatar to each his own. Also you seriously think that what Obama is doing for our country is financially worse then what the Bush/ Cheney Administration did remember when Bush was elected we had a surplus when he left we were in debt big time debt and thats a plain in your face truth. As far as Scott Brown getting elected and it not be a democrat I realize that , but I also know as a Democrat I wish it was a democrat. On the issue of him being oppossed to Gay Marriage as everyone knows here that is huge with me and extemely personal. I cannot fathom that in todays times there are still people who are againist Gay People and their God given right as written in the us constituation that all men were created equal and signed by our founding fathers. Peace. Catherine

Hate is a very strong word. I personally can dislike what someone stands for and not hate them. So, no, I haven't really seen where there is "hate".

Sher's avatar says "be afraid" with a pic of Obama. Not really that offensive no matter whose pic is there. I personally am afraid of some of the policies that Obama and his cronies are interested in pushing.

Being against gay marriage does not equal being against gays. And in the eyes of many ppl their "rights" are certainly not God given. And the Constitution doesn't give God given rights, God does. I'd actually have to think about what would Biblicly be considered a "God given right".

Yes, I seriously believe that Obama's plans will financially harm our country. Absolutely. And yes, worse than Pres. Bush. Yes, it is an "in my face truth" that we were in debt when Obama took office. I just believe his plans are not conducive to lowering that debt, and in fact will significantly add to it.

__________________
Melissa

1. I am very upset by all the handouts and entitlements Americans want. Heck, look at Haiti. They are getting limbs sawed off without using medical tools and no anethesia. You think they might rather be here????? It's not a "right" to have free health care. Get a job that provides it. That's what I did. And be grateful you live in a country that allows you to do that.
2. Catherine-you have to look at Bush's term and what 911 did to our country. There are always going to be fluctuations in the budget, the economy, etc..., just like there are in everyone's personal finances. If your house blows up you might not be as financially stable as you were the day before. 911 and the resulting war (which may or may not have been just but let's not get on that topic) which took it's toll along with natural economic fluctuations. So yes, the Bush years, were hard but you have to take everything else in context.
3. I second the statement that being against gay marriage does not equal being against gays. Catherine you might want to educate yourself on the difference. I'm totally against gay marriage but have gay relatives, etc... that I feel no differently about than any other relative. I have a cousin who abuses drugs. Should I be for the legalization because he might be genetically made that way? NO. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Very simple.
4. I sure hope this election victory is the first of many to come!!!

All men being created equal has nothing to do with gay marriage....... You could just as equally read into that statement that they are only talking about men and that woman aren't created equal!!!

Can I throw out something interesting here? There was much debate about the "All men are created equal" line, according to something I read recently. Seems that a few (including John Adams, maybe?) did NOT like that line, because they said all are not created equally... and clearly, we aren't all equal. Some are blind, some are lame, some are whole...

The debate was around whether we are CREATED equally or VALUED equally by the Creator. It's an interesting thing to consider....

Cathrine, Bush did not claim that Iraq caused 911. The claim was that Iraq - a nation that was our enemy and shares borders with the homelands of people who were responsible for 9-11, a nation that was responsible for firing on our military planes in the no fly areas even as we were invading Afghanistan because of the presence of the Taliban, a nation that had refused entry to the UN inspectors, something they were required to do to prove disposal of the components they were collecting to create WMD's, a nation that could not produce evidence that they had in fact destroyed weapons that were KNOWN to us - THAT nation, it appeared, was harboring terrorists.

And to tell you the truth... I believe that they were.

I'll also tell you this... the Iraq war could not have occurred without the consent of congress. Hillary Clinton, who had been privy to information none of us were, including through discussions with her husband (the former president)... SHE was of the belief that they had WMD's and were harboring terrorists. She is now our sec of state, appointed by none other than Obama.

One other thing... I honestly don't know if what we were shown was true or not. What I do know is that none of us will EVER be privy to the information our elected officials saw. None of us. I have a very strong feeling that there was much, much more going on in Iraq than we will ever, ever know, reasons that would compromise our national security given that we are still battling terror.

I think every president - every single president - is privy to information that sends him down paths that we may never understand.

And Cathrine, regarding your statement that "healthcare is gone"... no way. The health care BILL that the Obama administration wanted will be dead, and for that I am thankful. I don't have a clue HOW to reform it. There are valid reasons that the costs for what we have available here in the US are so high. For all the successful drugs there are a zillion failed ones, with hard-working scientists behind them who must be paid for paving the way. Physicians spend many, many years training to do what they do, and that's expensive. And of course, as we worry and whine about how much OUR insurance is, our DOCTORS are paying malpractice premiums we can't even FATHOM!

For Obama to think he can ride in on a white horse and get Pelosi and Reed to craft a document that will fix all of that in mere MONTHS and ram it down our throats when clearly the majority of the American people don't have confidence that they are doing it right, when Nelson can hold out for Cornhusker Kickbacks and the union members who already enjoy cushy benefits that are much, much greater than those of the general population have such clout with the administration that they can waltz in and have it stipulated that THEY will not be paying taxes on their insurance benefits while the REST of us do.... well... it's politics as usual.

For what it's worth, I do understand why the unions don't want their members suddenly socked with paying taxes on those $25K/year policies they have. It's not like they got raises or anything with which to pay this new tax. But the kicker is... just because their policies cost $25K and their tax would be a 'burden', well, we're to believe that for the rest of us... well... I'm lost in my syntax here. lol

My husband's employer contributes about $10K towards our policy. We contribute about $5K. My husband's income is much less, I am sure, than most union members. So we make less, and our benefits are smaller, and we have to contribute out of pocket. Compare that with the union members who make more, who have benefits that do not encumber them to pony up anything, whose benefits are much, much cushier than anything we have.... and THEY are the ones who got out of paying a tax in the health care bill as it stands!!!

And here I thought the Democrats were the ones saying that those who HAVE more should PAY more!! By my calculations, those union members HAVE more, yet WE are the ones who get to pay these new taxes!

Mind you - I don't want the tax levied on ANY of us, union or not. I'm just saying that the inequity is a big, big problem for me, and is one of the clues that this bill is not about 'helping people who don't have health care get it' and is more about making sure their 'friends' are rewarded at the expense of the rest of us.

Go.
Scott.
Brown.

I knew that Obama's election, which seemed to be based more on "He's not Bush, and boy can he give a fabulous speech!" than on substance, would be a good thing in the long run. Sometimes you just have to give the pendulum a really hard swing so it can come back to you.

It's a good day in America. Thank you Massachusetts!

Massachusetts. The bluest state in the union. The "Kennedy Seat", held for fifty long years, will now hold a red butt. lol What a day, oh what a day!

I don't see that Shers avatar means that she hates Obama. I take it that she doesn't like the direction his administration is taking the country.
I don't hate Obama, but to me it seems that he is slowly leading our country toward socialism with the government owning a stake with all of the bailouts. Now the way he wants to reform the health care.

finally America is getting back on track. This victory is great great news.

Of course it doesn't. That was a really dumb assumption

I think Obama is already shaping up to be one of the worst presidents we've ever had, but that doesn't mean I "hate" him -- how silly. But I certainly am "afraid" of him in the sense that I worry about how much he is hurting America

Agreed. I'm not afraid of HIM, I'm afraid of what he says he wants to do!

However, I wasn't ever really all that afraid. I couldn't imagine there wouldn't be a lot of infighting. That always happens when either party has total control. You go into it thinking, "YES! We can FINALLY get our plans accomplished without being hindered by our opponents!"... and before you know it, you're fighting with each other.

I think the centrists are the people who are going to stand up and take control. Everyone is tired of the extreme right or left pushing their agendas. While I am an evangelical Christian, I have come towards the center politically. I don't think that means I've abandoned my strong held convictions re; social matters.


Regarding our God given rights...wowitsdark, what do you believe one is?

__________________
Melissa

I am, first of all amazed, and 2ndly very pleased! If this is not a signal to Mr. Obama that the American people are unhappy with the way he is pushing all his plans down our throats then I don't know what would be.

Unexpected fall-out of Mr. Obama's reign:
- The "Cash for Cluckers" (should have been named Cash for Gas Guzzlers) fiasco...
- My husband's overtime and incentive bonuses Stopped
- My son getting denied for grants (even the Pell Grant Mr. Obama boasted about increasing) because "we made too much $$$"
- My sister getting laid off and then having to take a job at half her previous income, just to survive, and is now worried sick over possibly loosing her home that has been on the market for 9 months.

So yes..Because I listened to him very carefully during the election and saw a lot of this coming. Mr. Obama told us before he was ever elected, what he was going to do...re. Sher218's avatar... yes, I was afraid...very afraid when he got elected...

__________________
Mary

Oh for heavens sake, no my avatar doesnt mean I hate Obama, so whoever said that is way out in left field....And besides that I have seen far worse when Bush was Presisent....I am very afraid of osama's policies and what he is trying to do to this country...And by the last year he hasnt done ONE thing to better this country...I certainly want less government and less taxes, which isnt the road osama is taking us down....Socialism is where we are headed with this this man...all he campainged on was the national debt...OHHH now look what he has down to us....bailouts...we are in more debt than ever...

Yes health care needs some reforrm but for God sake just look at Canada, Do you people really want that kind of health care????

KellyJef you ARE right, he is shaping up to be the Worst President in history and he is hurting America most certainly....So for you Obama supporters I am telling you again BE AFRAID....VERY AFRAID!!!!

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

That's a really good question, Melissa. I guess I really don't know that God GAVE us rights, other than the right to exercise our free will.

Then again.... I guess if I really think about it, as an example, God prohibits murder, so that would imply that people have a right to *life*. If nobody is supposed to murder me, that would seem to mean that I have a *right* to *life*.

But at the same time, God did create us as individuals who will eventually die. We all will. So is my life a RIGHT if it is something that will end in a way that is beyond my control?

I don't have the right to wantonly TAKE a life.... and I think that war is a different animal than 'murder', from a theological standpoint, because it's quite common to read in the Bible about soldiers experiencing conversion to Christianity and never being told by Christ or an apostle, "Now you have to quit the army!"... and Peter carried a sword around because there came a point in Christ's ministry that he TOLD him to carry it for protection (after having initially told him NOT to carry it around!).... so that's a complicated issue all around... and it all relates to the concept of having a *right* to life.

I also don't know about God having granted us the right to pursue happiness. Actually... yeah... I guess he did. It's all part of 'free will". I don't know that God specifically put that 'right' at the forefront of what we were 'granted' by him, but because he allows us the right to make choices, how we pursue happiness could be construed to be a 'right'....

However....

ALL of that said, I don't think "RIGHTS" was what God was after. He's more about responsibility and commitment and faith. From I Cor. 10:23:

"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

Our earthly 'rights' are not the end game. Faith in God and the rewards he promises *after* our short stint here are. I really believe earth is just the pre-season game, and how we perform here determines the rest of the season. God is pretty silent about our RIGHTS here, despite the fact that he gives us the 'right' to either obey him or not. He's very vocal about what he wants to see from us, and allows us the freedom to do it... or not. And I believe we choose "NOT" at our own peril.

I also firmly believe the founders were right on the money when they decided that the role of attempting to secure the freedoms God allows on behalf of the governed can be seized by 'the people'. There are statements in the Bible that would seem to be to the contrary, statements about whether you are a Jew, Greek, slave, free... whatever... that you should (paraphrased) 'bloom where you are planted'... and statements about the battle not being an earthly battle, but a battle of the spirit....

But I also think that sometimes in the name of restoring the freedom of choice the Lord granted us, governmental restraints must be removed.

That does NOT mean that I think government should allow ANYTHING in the name of 'choice' and 'freedom'. The obvious issue relative to this is abortion, because I do believe that abortion causes the cessation of an innocent life, and I do not believe we have the *right* to cause that cessation. I firmly believe that if God created a soul and assigned it to a body that regardless of inconvenience to the mother who carries that child, it's *supposed* to exist... so I cannot support the *choice* to end that developing life, and am in support of laws that prevent that action.

But back to the founders... I love this:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

In sort... it's complicated, and I don't have all the answers!

What are your thoughts, Mrs. M?

I think you are right about all that you said. I believe that we have secular, government given rights, but when I gave my life to Christ, I gave up my rights, dying to self.

Back to the point made by Catherine that started me thinking. One does not have a God given right to live any way one chooses. One is not afforded God given rights. We have rights given us by our government, but not God. They are not one and the same.

I guess the idea of God given rights may have led to our country's sense of entitlement....hhmm.

__________________
Melissa

Well... I've gotta say... I feel a bit stupid now, because clearly, God did grant "rights". I was thinking of things from a different angle and ignoring some obvious trees as I was focusing on the 'forest of theology'...

I searched "rights" on BibleGateway and rights given by God are pretty commonly referred to.

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: rights

I Cor. is the book that seems to discuss Christian rights the most, and in it Paul mostly asserts, "Yes, I have rights, but I'm going to forgo exercising them to show you that this isn't all about me."

I know nothing of Mr. Brown except he is against the healthcare bill. That alone makes me excited he won. I DO NOT want that passed. As an independent who doesn't live in Mass., I honestly didn't care who won...as long as they vote against the healthcare bill

__________________
Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Don't feel stupid. I think we were looking at it the same way. It is a confusing issue because as believers, we have forgone our "rights". So, when we hear someone speak of them, our first thought/feeling is that we have none. It's trying to meld the two, our government given vs. the rights given us by God. It's confusing.

I know that the more I give up my rights, the more I can consider others, and the less offended I am by what others do and say.

this is SO way off topic.

__________________
Melissa

LOL Melissa - it is, and yet it isn't.

I think Brown won because by and large, people think they think people have a right to input in THIS government of ours, and they believed that our representatives in congress were neglecting that duty. I know, I know, it's a representative republic, and when 'we' voted them to represent us, that was supposed to be our 'input', and then we went them on their way to DC to represent us.

But in the course of that representation, they were behaving badly and not properly and fairly doing what they were elected to do.

I just saw a fascinating focus group of Democrats from Mass who voted for Brown who had also voted for Obama and Kennedy run by Frank Luntz on Fox. Those always, always fascinate me. I think he does an excellent job. Bottom line... he asked them to raise their hands and identify who they were more frustrated with. Every single one of them raised their hands to say their frustration lies most with congress and not with Obama.

Sounds like it's time for another '94-style Contract with America! ;-)

Ilovelucy you need to get your head out of the sand. Just because he doesn't believe in gay marriage is a reason to not vote for the man? At least some of the hard core democrats could see the reasoning behind voting for Brown. You need to wake up and take the blinders off and see why people want change. If you think Obama is doing us justice then your nuts. Our children are going to be paying for a lifetime of all this money that has gone out in our taxes and their taxes for years and years to come. The healthcare coakly and Obama wanted is terrible. They can turn around and tell you oh we don't think you need treatment you had enough and next thing you know your on your death bed. If you don't see that then something is really wrong with you. Do you really think government healthcare is the best thing? Also it's going to cost us in taxes.

__________________
SAHM of Bailey 12, Tyler 10 , Emily Ann 6, and Ryan Matthew 4 yrs old.

Oh i wanted to add i love her avatar btw. And i strongly believe what her avatar says. I do not trust Obama and never have. I am fearful for this country.

__________________
SAHM of Bailey 12, Tyler 10 , Emily Ann 6, and Ryan Matthew 4 yrs old.

aryia, you make an excellent point.

Generally, while Bush's decision to push for war was very, very financially costly, the war is an event, and it's costs are mostly finite (other than the potential for US military bases that might ultimately exist in that region of the world like those we now have in Germany). Once we pull out - whether it happens in one year, ten years, or twenty years - it's done. We spent many years in Vietnam, but we are not still paying for a military presence there. It ended.

What Obama wants to do creates a never-ending expenditure. An ongoing, eternal financial commitment.

It's like the mortgage that never ends.

Of that, I am very afraid.

And I would agree with them. Pelosi drives me nuts and Reid's not much better. The dems in congress have been ineffective at best, and it spans a much longer time period than Obama's presidency.

There was glimmer of hope with Obama's run for presidency. He ran a great campaign, energized people, the dems finally had some momentum. But even he hasn't been able to lead that group of misfits yet.

__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Sometimes, you just have to consider the source. Just sayin'!!

I agree, your avatar does not express hate of Obama. I think he's a great person.....but is not doing so well as POTUS. Doesn't mean I hate the man. I couldn't agree more.... be AFRAID!!

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

correction....The presidents of the United States name is Obama not Osama. I think this has been brought up before and surely this is a mistake because people who claim to be so patriotic and love this country wouldn't disrespect the person who holds the highest office even if they didn't agree with his/her policies.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

It's a stunning and undeniable repudiation of Obama and his socialist agenda.

usna, I'm not accusing you of anything at all here, I'm just curious....

Do you lurk until a political topic comes up, or do you have a 'political posting ID' for controversial topics? I usually only see you (and ana and a few others) in political threads.

On another business-related board I have two ID's - one for controversial responses and another where I'm just me - so I do 'get' the reasons for doing that.

Nah, I only have one ID and I am interested in politics, not neccessarily in getting in other people's business. If I have something to say to someone for support or a question to ask someone, I usually pm them. So, in short...this is the only name I have and the only name I use...oh, except for a few times when I couldn't get on from work and had to use a form of my regular username. But I informed everyone that it was me.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Thanks - I was just curious. I know if I've been lurking for awhile (for whatever reason, sometimes I go for long spells where I don't seem to post), a political topic always brings me out of hiding. lol

On the board where I have two ID's it's because people who disagree with others have the ability to mess with their 'real lives' since their non-posting-ID usernames have links to their real names. I don't mind the world knowing my political views at all, but knowing that strangers who don't like them can and do take opportunities to mess with people from behind the veil of the internet... I just don't want to sign 'real me' up for that.

Yeah, there are definitely some whacked up crazies out on boards who will screw up your real life if you disagree with them. There are some right here on this board. LOL. I, like you, don't care what people think about my political leanings are. I am not shy about posting what I think about a subject if I have a view or can offer some first hand experience. I mostly lurk here and I have another board I post at but not so much lately (family stuff) I go in spurts here. If I see stupid stuff posted, that will usually bring me out to post. LOL. Or if we are being tested on something. That will make my fingers itch to post.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

There have been many emails going around asking everyone to pray for our nation. I believe that this surprise Republican win is a result of our prayers and that it is just the beginning. We must keep praying for our nation to make it the great country that it was meant to be. God listens to our prayers.

__________________
Square dancing is friendship set to music!

Can I simply ask a question why was no one sooo afarid when ex President Bush was in office???. Also remember once again which no one seems to care about our country having a surplus when Bush entered into the picture yet when he left, he and his administration left our country in such dispare???. Why was no afarid then??. On the other issue I have with Bush is of course the war, I know that the Iraqi nation did not cause 9/11 but with Bush's decision to enter into this war that has caused so many deaths here and aboard still not afarid, does anyone anyone care what will happen when do we finally retreat ???. Honestly because I fear and am SO AFARID of that day??? and everyone should be. Bush for the 100 millionth time put us in the suituation we are now right at this moment and if anyone truly thinks that President Obama was going to work miracles to remove us from the horrible Bush Administration should take their heads out of the sand. As far as him not being for Gay Marriage while it is a serious issue with me, it goes way more then that issue. Sure its personal to me but at this point and shaking my head I still cannot believe it is someone elses business especially in government to make that choice to let Gay People be married. To all republicans do you honestly believe if McCain and Palin whould have been elected what state would our country be in????. The same is the answer and perhaps worse if Palin was in charge heaven forbid, with McCain I liked him very much I truly do and always will, a truly respectful man only issue I have with him is that he is a Republican sorry. Anyone here cannot tell me with all I have read about Obama and the people who are so againist him tell me that they do not have some hatred for the man. To sher I say sorry I did not mean you personally that you hate Obama. However I clearly remember all your posts about Palin and to make that your avatar as much as I do not like Bush I would never dream to use his face in my avatar but again your choice. To usnamom I appreciate your input. Peace. Catherine

Catherine, I hear what you are saying and I have been giving it some thought over the last year. It almost seems like because the Conservatives didn't win and McCain/Palin are not in the White House is still unbelievable to most of them and they are still angry.

When President Bush took the oath of office there was a lot of anger from the Liberals (I hate those labels) but the Liberals were told to "either support the President, have respect for the office, or leave the country....you aren't patriotic if you don't have respect for the office...blah, blah, blah. It isn't so comfortable for them when the shoe is on the other foot. What has happened is that the country voted and President Obama is the President by a fair margin...it isn't like he won by such a close margin that there needed to be a recount or anything..

.In another few years, there will be another election and perhaps someone who is a conservative will win or maybe Palin will run and we will get another four years of a Democrat President. LOL. But in the meantime, there are elections all over the country and people get to vote and there will be some people who are in office who won't be after the election. Just like when Pres. Obama came into office...some of the those seats who are now Dem were Rep. and there will be some vice versa. The nanny nanny boo boo is silly and there isn't anything to be afraid of. By saying that they are afraid (general they) it makes this administration look evil or trying to do something that is dangerous. Perhaps health care looks dangerous to people. War looks dangerous to me. Always has. But I remained in America when the President made his case for us going to Iraq. I didn't like it when my son and his friends were involved in the surge into the Anbar Province but I didn't move to France. I didn't hope for President Bush to fail because if he failed, my son failed and so did America. I don't understand those people here and everywhere who hope this President fails and fails miserably. I can see hoping that the changes they see happening that they are unhappy with not happening, making calls to their representatives, getting out and stumping for their candidates but to continually say how much they distrust this administration and how scared they are of it is silly in my humble opinion. But since this is America, they get to act however they want to even though it seems hypocritical and not productive. Of course this is my opinion. Yours will vary and certainly, those who are so very afraid in the US will have another opinion.

Don't let it get to you....time will tell. Keep the faith...If you keep telling yourself things are so terrible and life is awful and it is so scary, it will be.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Catherine, with all due respect, I think that liberals *were* afraid when Bush was in office. I did not share their fear, but surely you can understand that when one side is in power, those on the other side are going to 'fear' the direction things could go in the hands of the candidate they did not support.

The surplus was artificial. We didn't really have a surplus. We just had smaller deficits. Under Clinton, there were areas that we (and keep in mind the party 'his' congress was from - the Republicans!) were supposed to grow programs at certain levels, and 'we' ended up growing them at smaller levels. Say you were going to build a house for $500,000, and you were going to need to take out a loan for the whole thing. Then you decided to build a $200K house instead. Would it be accurate to say that you now have a surplus of $300K because you are only borrowing $200K? Not really... but that's a simplistic analogy explaining that 'surplus' we supposedly had when Bush took office.

Add to that the fact that we were collecting crazy amounts of tax revenue on 'air'. The .com bubble was at its pinnacle a couple of years before Bush took office, and people were making huge sums of cash on castles in the sand. As an example, look at this chart for Cisco Systems. It was trading up around $100 - an entirely unrealistic and unfounded amount - just because of the craze. Today it is 1/4 that amount per share. But when Clinton left office - before the .com bust and before 9-11 - those were the inflated incomes upon which people were paying taxes.

CSCO: Basic Chart for Cisco Systems, Inc. - Yahoo! Finance

FWIW, McCain wouldn't have been my first choice. I'd have picked Palin over him. McCain, like Obama, wanted to tax our health care benefits. The difference, however, is that McCain said so up front. Obama said - and I quote - "John McCain even wants to tax your health insurance!"

Obama: McCain Wants to Tax Your Health Insurance | Politicususa.com

That piece was written during the McCain/Obama campaign, is PRO-Obama, and explains why McCain is wrong to want to tax people's health insurance benefits.

Except... that now that Obama is president, HE is the one wanting that tax. Except, of course, for the unions....

ETA: In the interest of accuracy, McCain didn't actually want to TAX your benefits. He just wanted to remove the deduction employers can take when they provide employees with benefits. Obama, on the other hand, wants to directly tax the recipient of the benefits, counting the value of the premiums paid by the employer as income to the employee. On the one hand, I actually see a lot of merit in that. It's always seemed a little unfair that someone can 'receive' more from an employer than someone else - in the form of retirement and insurance benefits - and be treated equally by the IRS. On the other, though, it's just one area that they government doesn't currently have its hand in our pockets, and I'd rather keep them out whenever I can!

Wowitsdark I dearly do admire and respect your posts, you speak clearly and when you speak I want to listen to you. While there are some issues I agree there are some I disagree. In the end as I do now want this thread to get way of out hand that was not my intent when I decided to speak. However I will admit while I am happy Obama is our president and I still will hold out and give him a sincere opportunity to try to fix all our problems reality is that he is only human and as humans we all make mistakes me and all of us. I guess what I am trying to convey is that I truly and sincerely wish our country the United States of America was in a better place for all of us. We all cannot predict the next 3 years and also what will happen with the next election . I sincerely only hope for the best and happen not to sound like a broken record but for me personally we need our troops home as a mom and wife I cannot imagine the emotional levels these people have to endure. A sincere peace to bring our country back on her feet. Catherine

You are right and I did that by pure accident, Later on in the day It just hit me i did type osama instead of obama, but just got home and dinner over to come and change it!!!!! Thanks

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

thats a dumbacrat for ya. You need to get some medication. What kind of stupid sentance is that you don't like Mccain because hes republican? lol Honestly, if it was Mccain and Hilary running i would of voted for Hilary over Mccain. I don't trust Mccain either! And guess what im republican! Just because someone is a democrat or a republican doesn't mean you have to soley vote that way. Just in case you didn't know.

__________________
SAHM of Bailey 12, Tyler 10 , Emily Ann 6, and Ryan Matthew 4 yrs old.

Oh and yes it has been a year so yes i do expect change by now somewhat of change. Get over it over the war, if we didn't have war who knows what could have happend here. I support our troops 100%

__________________
SAHM of Bailey 12, Tyler 10 , Emily Ann 6, and Ryan Matthew 4 yrs old.

Aryia first learn how to spell . go back and look at the last two posts several grammar problems here. Omg I am not the only one with grammar issues lol. On a more serious note, I did not use any name calling so please do not call me a dumb democrat. Also I have the right to not like McCain because he is a republican that is my given right last time I checked. On a last sad note Heck forget about the war or get over it, are you serious????. You say you support our troops, well if you truly do , you will never ever ever ever forget the war and ask any decent human to get over it and this is coming from a dumb democrat as your per your words!. Also remember I did say I liked McCain as a person and I also said he was very respectful and I believe it so just do not like the fact he is a Republican thats is. Peace. Catherine

I was never afraid when Bush was in office because he protected us from any more 911 attacks that could have happened. Just think if we didn't get rid of saddam we could have been attacked again. Obama seems like he wants to side with the terrorists, I always see him apologizing to other countries like they are better then us. If they are so good, why we send everyone money?

.......and THIS is truly priceless......ill telling someone else to learn to spell and pointing out grammar problems......

dl

It is accurate that with post-911 Bush, we never had as close a call as we did on Christmas Day 2009. If 'fear' is based on that... I do have more fear.

wow! someone actually believes the propaganda and hyperbole!

(and anyone who's been here knows I'm not an Obama OR a Bush fan....)

I'm of the opinion that PERHAPS Fmr President Bush could have done more to prevent 911. I'm of the opinion that perhaps there have been some close calls that we haven't been told about. I'm of the opinion that no President has "protected" our society as much as some people think.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Clap!! Clap!! Clap!!

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

There you go again Deddlastt beating a dead horse with me and my grammar, why not comment on aryia post and her grammar usuage and if you took a moment to notice after my comments I did write lol , meaning I know a few only a very small few here complain about my grammar and that was mean't as a joke lol. Again you simply cannot leave me alone and find so much humor in your comments to me. Either way peace and I truly do not care if you like my grammar at all so again peace to you. Catherine

Here's the thing Marilyn. In my opinion, most ppl are of the same mind you are. There is just no way to know all the things that make our govt officials make the decisions they do.

I totally agree with what you said above.

To make strong, definitive statements based on things we cannot possibly know is ridiculous.

I don't love love love or hate hate hate any politician.

No matter where you stand politically, last nights election, and probably those to come, are making for very interesting politics.

__________________
Melissa

Marilyn, generally I agree with you, however from the outside it does appear to me that the Obama administration hasn't been nearly as terror-prevention-driven in his thought processes.

As an example, he came in with lots of bravado about closing Gitmo because it just serves as a symbol to make the bad guys more mad at us. Now he is having terrorists he kept tried in civilian courts as though they had simply committed crimes and not terrorist acts. He released a number of them back to Yemen, and the rates of recidivism for those fitting that profile is not optimal at all.

I just watched the head of his intelligence department testifying to congress that he was not aware that civilian individuals were interviewing the underwear bomber and that military intel people were not on the list of people who would be allowed interviews with him.

It just seems to me that there is a lot more chaos in their efforts to combat terrorism than I saw during the Bush administration. I think Obama's philosophy is, "If we act nice and don't try to escalate the issues they bring to our soil to the highest level of our radar, they won't hate us so much and we'll be safer."

But I don't think it works that way with those people. People with that mindset flog and jail young girls who take cell phones to school... ya know?

I do assume that we had close calls under Bush. But for someone to be able to board a PLANE of all things, and to get that close... it's just mind-boggling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100120/...error_hearings

Oh, I don't disagree with you!
I think that the problem that Bush had, and Obama is appearing to have is that they don't have the spin doctors that 1st Bush and Clinton did. Bush had little to no finesse, and Obama has way too much. Bush 2 was way to "in your face" and confrontational, Obama is too placating and not nearly assertive....

Frankly---Obama concerns me. There are just a lot of questions I have about him and his ability to run a company. While I realize that he can't fix everything in such a short time---I wish he would focus on a couple of things and FIX those before moving on to something else. It's like he's got ADD or Bi-polar! He's all over the place
(and don't anyone think I'm being flip about mental illness--I lived w/ a bi-polar, I think I can say something about biploar characteristics)

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

9/11 happened under Bush's watch. They had information something was going to happen and I believe more could have been done to prevent it. As far as the truth behind everything I guess us common people will never know.

I wonder: when you become President if they take you into a room and tell you all the secrets for example which terrorist groups we are currently secretly funding, how/when/if extraterrestrials have been here and what happened to them, who is getting tortured and how, whatever info they have on the different apocalypse theories (if there is scientific merit to any), etc.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I wondered just the other day if a President, after being elected, decided he (or she in the future) didn't like it and could give a 2 week notice, and look for another "job"?

Can the President just quit?

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Anna, I agree that it happened on Bush's watch, I think the part that is critical to consider is that we had never had an attack of that nature on our soil. We had a failed attempt on the WTC under Clinton's watch, but it wasn't an aerial attack, and my understanding is that for all intents and purposes we were well-protected on the ground. In retrospect, there was a trail to follow, but I really don't think anyone had a clue prior to the event that those were relevant to anything. Those buildings were constructed so that they would not collapse. I think the one thing nobody considered was the presence of jet fuel and a flaming fuselage.

A number of smaller attacks - like the one on the Cole - had occurred, and we knew they enjoyed 'messing with us'... but I just don't think anyone - not Bush, not Clinton, not Obama- would have been able to predict 9-11. Those terrorists not only were doing the unthinkable, but they were working hard to remain covert.

In light of that horrible act, we stepped it up... until December, when a guy with known terrorist ties, a man whose own father had reported him to our government as someone who wanted to do us harm... when that guy just got on a plane bound for Detroit. No luggage, no nothing. Red flags were everywhere, but because Obama had whittled down the list of people who were not allowed to fly into the US, there was not room on the list for this newly-flagged bad guy, and we almost had a tragedy.

I do NOT find humor in your posts. Again, it is you who is the antagonist (or your favorite worn out word: troublemaker) and starts things. You constantly tell people what to post and who to post about and even when to stop. That is not your right. Time and time and time and time over you have stated you are done, and yet you never are.

You are a self professed "para professional" and yet as an educator, this is what we get? This is how you present yourself? You are now a fan of wowitsdark - she is an articulate, well spoken poster. Emulate her (copy her), learn from her if there is no one else here that you can realize is only trying to help you.

To stay on topic, I was apprehensive about both candidates and less enthralled with the one we got. He is going from so-so to bad to worse to unbelievable.


dl