They're saving a dog that is in a river in LA.

There are helicopters and teams of policemen and firefighters.

What's the pricetag gonna be for that?

I was totally thinking the same thing. It's ridiculous!!! If you can save the dog, save it. If it's gonna take forever, and tons of money...well. It's a dog!

We live near Lake Huron. One winter, I'm driving down US 23 and the traffic is at a stop. It is not a busy road in the Winter especially. Anyway, I get close enough to see what's up and I see all the commotion surrounding a dear out on the ice. I'm not sure how long they took to attempt to save this animal, or at what expense, or even if they did. All I know is that it was DEER HUNTING SEASON!!! Shoot the deer, let the traffic through! good grief.


uummm, yes it's overkill. lol

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Melissa

Did you see on Fox how far back the traffic was backed up, and then being re-routed? They closed down a BRIDGE in LA! lol

Did that last for at least an hour?

Never fear - Shep is going to update us on the dog later!


Got your popcorn, Melissa? Beck Countdown: One hour, fifteen minutes!

And, did you see the dog trying to bite him as his lifted it up and he was being hoisted up by the helicopter?

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

To op and Melissa if this was your pet would you not want anyone to do all they could to save the life if your beloved pet??. I cannot believe that this topic would get anyone here so upset, you say its just a dog, that dog is a living creature. To Melissa shoot the deer and move on with the hunting I cannot believe what I am hearing and before anyone jumps all over me. I am a huge animal lover and activist and I personally feel if it was one of my beloved pets I would want someone to help me as much as they could. Have some compassion. Traffic will move life goes on, but if that poor animal dies there is no more life. Peace to my beloved pets and all pets over the world. Catherine

We all know how you feel about animals Catherine. I love my Bella, and will be sad when she's not here anymore. But yup, shoot the deer. And yes, traffic may move, life will go on, but how many of those ppl missed a much needed Dr. apt, or job interview, or whatever. Being realistic, does not mean one lacks compassion. Animals are animals people are people. Sorry, people's lives trump those of animals in my eyes.

and...you jumped us.

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Melissa

I love my pets, too, but I guess I'd expect an animal control officer or two to stand around and wring their hands with me and stratagize... but wouldn't expect a section of LA to come to a complete standstill, keeping ambulances from getting to hospitals in a timely fashion.

I did not jump you Melissa I voiced my personal view on the subject, because I do not agree to me my animals while they are animals I dearly know that, I also consider them to be my children and know so many countless millions of people feel the same way. I will not even comment on just shoot the deer, so sad. Catherine

Yes, wowitsdark, I am ready for Beck! Oughta be interesting. I just auto tuned it!! No popcorn, probably soy beans! lol

(I swear I already responded to this, but it didn't show up. That's twice now.)

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Melissa

No Catherine, it's not sad, and by saying that, you did comment. That's offensive, btw. We have a different view point, that's all. I think it's sad that we have elevated animals to the level of humans, especially considering all the suffering done by humans in this world. THAT is sad.

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Melissa

Catherine, if you consider them as your children, I am curious - if you had to save one or the other, would the decision be a toss-up?

Or even if, say (totally making this non-possibility up here) your daughter needed an organ that your dog could provide, but it would result in the death of the dog to take the organ, would you permit your daughter the chance to live at the expense of the dog?

Just trying to wrap my mind around this concept....

Really Melissa while a human life is very important so are the lifes of Animals and while it dearly hurts to see anyone any human suffer, remember this all the cruel and suffering animals suffer each and everyday and furthermore, unlike a human who can defend themselves and have a voice and have weapons to attack each other in defense, Animals have none of those qualities and yeah it sure is easy for the Hunter with his gun to go shooting, I have said this before and will say it again, lets be more fair, let that hunter put down his gun and kill the animal one on one and lets see who the tough person really is. Hunters are cowards big time cowards. Melissa I do not know how more to convey my convictions and feelings on the subject and nor will I . Where in the world did I say animals are above humans,but when it does come to certain people or humans I will take my beloved pets who offer their uncondtionally love to me always, they do not question you, they do not answer you back, they listen, they offer all their love and sometimes truly are mans and womens best friend. Peace to all my beloved pets and all beautiful caring animals. Peace. Catherine

We've discussed this before. We think differently Catherine. Again with the extremes. I don't think in extremes, there are always nuances to every situation.

It is your OPINION that hunters are cowards. Doesn't make it so. My niece and many other family members and friends feed their families all winter on venison. These ppl are not cowards, just trying to get by.

You have done a fine job of conveying your convictions and feelings. It is completely clear, so no need to go on. AND I never said that you put animals ABOVE humans, but that you elevated them to the level of.

We disagree, that's all.

Do you understand that not everything you think or feel is true or accurate?

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Melissa

I know there are some great animal lovers here (and my DH's family has some as well) but to me, a dog is a dog..it is not the same as a human. We should not spend the same amount of time, money, etc to save the life of an animal in an instance like OP is stating. What is happening is insane and sad that the taxpayers will have to pay to save that dog (and even if it's not saved, they will have to pay for the attempt).

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Before you get called a troublemaker, I want to add that you have, AS MANY, MANY OTHERS, conveyed your thoghts nicely and clearly. Your points are very valid and yet some refuse to get it.

dl

Interesting the amount of money and time spent on a dog when today is the March for Life in DC. The people that care so much about an animals safety should give at least that much regard to this countrys innocent babies in the womb.

Not only that....not too far off of our border, there is a country filled with people who were buried alive. There could be some still suffering under rubble and they have been there for days. Those that were rescued are suffering because of a lack of proper medical care. Children, real life human children are without their parents or any other family member. I doubt any of them are worried about their PETS!!!

I would, in a heart beat, shoot my dog if I could just help ONE of those people. Physically help one............priorities people.

I LOVE my dog, she makes me smile, and has given me much comfort in this really bad time in my life.....but to help just one, I would give her up.

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Melissa

To wowitsdark I am truly complexed by your comments to even ask me if there was a choice to choose between my own flesh and blood my three children, who I created with the love of my life , who grew inside of me, whom I gave birth to, who I breastfed and who I have raised and from infants and will love them endlessly forever even ask me that question. There would be no question my flesh and blood would come first always no question in mine. Lets not confuse the two by no means. How in the world could you even think that??? and honestly that truly hurts to even have that question asked of me.. If you only knew how much I have gone through with my son Tommy from birth with all his many medical conditions you will never know. Aside from that as being a vegetarian and a huge animal activist and huge animal lover I do not consider my animals just animals they are my children. I am mommy to them and my dh is daddy and brother and sister to my children. I do not know how you refer to your pets. I do not say come Sunshine to Catherine, she knows me as Mommy. It is not always the person who gave birth to you that makes you the parent. It is the person who takes of you, feeds you, trains you, hugs you when you feel pain, cleans you and loves you is the parent. To Melissa you talk about me being extreme why in the world would you say you would kill you animal to save a life in Haiti, what reasoning is behind that??? So lets assume I could save 12 lifes if I killed the pets I have now do you really think that is right???. You are reading way way too much into that and to use that as an example just does not wash with me with my moral values. Of course I dearly dearly have heartache for those people of Haiti and cannot even imagine the horror but to kill someone else to save another that is not the correct or normal thing to do at least for me. Peace. Catherine

"So lets assume I could save 12 lifes if I killed the pets I have now do you really think that is right???. You are reading way way too much into that and to use that as an example just does not wash with me with my moral values. Of course I dearly dearly have heartache for those people of Haiti and cannot even imagine the horror but to kill someone else to save another that is not the correct or normal thing to do at least for me."

But you wouldn't be killing "someone else". You'd be killing a pet, not a person. So yes, to me it would be the correct and normal thing to do. And I'd do it in a heartbeat. I value people above animals. It's really quite simple.

You can't have it both ways Catherine. You either value your children above your pets, or you don't.

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Melissa

Melissa this is going to be the last post from me on this topic. I can have both ways I can love my own flesh and blood and I can also love my pets, but and read carefully "IF IT MEAN'T THAT I NEEDED TO SAVE THE LIFE OF MY OWN CHILDREN OVER MY PETS I WOULD IN A HEARTBEAT". Melissa you are not going to make me look bad or unrational anymore and to talk about Haiti and talking about killing my pets was definitely a low blow . End of story. Peace to animal lovers. Catherine

Actually, though, Catherine, your post asking how I could even think that explained why I would think that. You had said earlier that you considered your pets to be your children. I consider my pets to be my pets, and my children to be my children. I don't ever call my pets my children... because they are not my children. I don't consider them my children because... they aren't.

In your last post where you asked how I could even think that, you went on to describe your relationship with your pets in this way:

I don't consider myself a 'parent' to my pets. I am their owner.

ETA: When I call my dog, I say, "Come here, puppy!" I never make reference to myself when I call him by asking him to come to *me*. Not that that would be wrong - just saying that I don't have a term I use to refer to myself when talking to my dog.

Catherine, you just talk like the line between humans and animals is blurred. You go on and on about how you consider your pets your children. Thus, the line is blurred. I'm pleased to hear that you would choose a human over an animal. So would I.

I love my children and my dog. The two however, do not compare in any way shape or form.

But I didn't talk about Haiti and your pets. I spoke about mine. I don't need to make you seem "unrational" you manage quite nicely on your own.

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Melissa

It won't be the end, it never is.

No one needs to make ill look bad or unrational, she does the job herself.

dl

Have to get into this. I love my dogs and yes if i could save my dog instead of some scum sucking murderer I would. Thats how stupid what some of you are saying. No I would not help my animal instead of a kid or good humans. You people have your opinions and us animal lovers will always defend them. They cant help thenselfs at all. I dont know if this makes sense but alot of people arent worth saving. This has nothing to do with Haiti.

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When you don`t know what to do-Walk fast and look worried.

I don't think a scum sucking murderer was ever brought into it.

I am also an animal lover. It's just all in your perspective and to what degree.

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Melissa

It doesn't directly have anything to do with Haiti, no.

But I believe Melissa's point is that thousands of dollars were spent saving a stray dog today. Thousands and thousands of dollars.

There are pleas right and left from legitimate organizations who need money to help the Hatians - many of whom are dying - and that those thousands of dollars could have been better spent.

I will be curious to see if that dog has gone to the pound or to his home.


ETA: Another interesting factor in this story is that the dog is in California, a state that is on the verge of bankruptcy.

I saw on the news that several people have offered to adopt the dog

Shoot, that dog is worth more than I am now....

I just can not cheer lead for this. I feel bad for the dog. I couldn't even watch, it was very sad. BUT, you are right. California is bankrupt, but spent thousands on a dog. Not only that, it bit the man who rescued him (not the fault of the dog, he was freaked out) now he is in the hospital.

It just was not worth the time, or the risk that many people took. Priorities people. Priorities.

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Melissa

Exactly, Melissa. I felt so sad for the dog. I really did. But when I saw the body of the rescuer slam down onto the concrete when he released himself from the helicopter cable, I thought he might have broken a bone. Were that my husband it would not have been a risk I would have wanted him to make for a dog that did not even, as far as we know, have an owner.

I was just remembering a song my son sang at church for Christmas. I wish I could remember more of the lyrics, but there was a line referring to America and how we "save the trees (insert dogs) and kill the children"

I guess that's the point that kind of got glossed over that Kathy was making.

Again. Priorities.

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Melissa

Thank you for the post-I think I know that song too. Today on the local news and in the paper was a story about a dog getting rescued from the Iowa River about 8 blocks away from the abortion clinic......... Like you said, priorities.....

I love my pets dearly, and as much as I would want too, I could never expect the authorities to go the those lengths to save one of my animals. Not just the cost, but the danger to human lives as well.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

One more time, you show your ignorance of animals and of hunting.
We have seen a deer attack the paperboy--he had to crawl under a vehicle to avoid being mauled by the deer! What did he do to the deer? Not one damned thing, he was just walking the neighborhood street, delivering the paper. We have seen numerous small dogs killed by the urban deer population.
Animals do have defense mechanisms. Teeth, horns, hooves, quills, smell, etc.

Furthermore, how DARE YOU call hunters cowards? That is so offensive on so many levels to anyone who has ever hunted or knows hunters!
Hunting is a means of population control. It is endorsed by Wildlife EXPERTS. Hunting is vital to the health and well being of some species. Not only that--hunting provides revenue for many states, thus allowing for more research on wildlife management, making for a better chance that 50 years from now we will still have certain species.
And in some instances hunting provides much needed food for people! For example: Our city has such a huge urban deer population that it was necessary to "cull" 150 of the deer. Working with Wildlife Mgmt, our local police dept, trapped and killed those 150 deer. Those deer were then given to the local food bank--and a meat processing plant donated their time and services to process the deer. Do you KNOW how many people that meat fed?

This has nothing to do with you---It's about your opinion and position. Your opinion may be yours--but in this case, it's WRONG.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

How many people are we supporting on death row. Its apples and oranges. Why would anybody just let the dog die?

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When you don`t know what to do-Walk fast and look worried.

Can't we all just get along SIGH

I do consider my pets to be my children. I don't expect everyone in the world to agree or feel the same way. That being said I would not expect a large metropolitan area to go into disaster mode over my pet. I would certainly jump in the water (if safe to do so) or do whatever I could possibly do short of losing my own life for my pet. But then again I keep my dog out of harm's way by not allowing her roam free or to go anywhere on her own.
And I would certainly expect to be billed for the cost of the rescue if some unforeseen situation came up.
As for the rest of this thread I just want to remind everyone that when we're typing sometimes we cannot express ourselves in a way that comes across as we intend it to. Also when a subject comes up that makes us feel emotional, frustrated, insulted, pissed off or whatever we tend to get excited and the words we type may sound more insulting or angry than we intended. I would just die if we could all respect each others' opinions and short of someone calling someone a child molester, cheat, liar, or thief we should be able to respectfully debate issues.

ETA the fact that "I would just die" if this happened should be motivation enough for those who hate me to make an extra effort to make this happen lol!

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Anna, that is an interesting thing to consider. If it was my dog and I was told, "we will try to save him if you want, but you will have to pay the $30,000 bill," I would stick with my prayer plan.

$30k I am not sure what I would do in that situation. But like I said that is unlikely to happen to my dog as she is either with us or somewhere safe like in the house. If we had to evacuate she'd be sitting next my husband (yes her Daddy lol) on the front seat of his truck as we drove our vehicles the heck away from disaster. Or she'd be in the boat with us or walking with us on her leash.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Mahatma Gandhi

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But "how we treat our animals" can look more than one way. Maybe putting the poor dog out of it's misery would have been humane.

didn't get the whole quote but you get the idea lol

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Melissa

I saw on HLN on CNN that they got him out. He bit the fireman who rescued him but the man totally understood that the dog was scared. They said there is still no word how he got into the water. Where is the owner I wonder?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

They did that here, too. On the first cull they shot 304 and processed the meat for the local food bank, too. They are going to do another one, but the won't announce when because the PETA-types are causing so many problems. They announce it after it's been done. The deer are so over-populated they are starving and peopel are hitting them with their cars all the time. I hate the thought of them shooting them, I think anyone would, but it has to be done. And the food banks are so needy right now...it's a total win-win.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

I think that is what is so heartbreaking

But where does this kind of discussion end? If your pet needs vet care that costs $500, is it "wrong" to go ahead and pay it? Or should you take that $500 and donate it to charity?

Even if you can say that you would pay the $500 to the vet AND donate $500 to charity, that still doesn't answer the moral question because "perhaps" you should have donated the entire $1,000 to charity.

Obviously these kinds of questions will drive you crazy if you let them

It's one thing to spend money on caring for your own pet. Expecting a city to pick up the tab for thousands of dollars on a rescue such as this is quite another. Don't you think? It just doesn't make any sense.

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Melissa

Virgo omg I love that quote so beautiful and so true. To Anna I can understand how the dog reacted it probably was so scare. In a animal is suffering and there is no hope of course the humane thing to do is put that dog out of his or her suffering. Peace. Catherine

I can agree with that. I can't imagine how it got started. Maybe the rescue workers made a personal choice. I am still wondering how the dog got there and where the owners are. Maybe they abandoned him and that's how it came about. Lots of people dump animals.

And in this area at the time there were all kinds of floods and I know this is not in that area but I saw this in the paper this morning which perhaps illustrates the frustration some of the posters on this thread feel.

washingtonpost.com

Tragic and helicopters couldn't make it there.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I heard this on the news. Sickeningly tragic. And I know not saving the dog would not have saved this little boy, but it does drive the point home a bit.

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Melissa

That's one of my fave songs. It's called "While you were sleeping" by Casting Crowns. I copied the lyrics for you.

"While You Were Sleeping"

Oh little town of Bethlehem
Looks like another silent night
Above your deep and dreamless sleep
A giant star lights up the sky
And while you're lying in the dark
There shines an everlasting light
For the King has left His throne
And is sleeping in a manger tonight

Oh Bethlehem, what you have missed while you were sleeping
For God became a man
And stepped into your world today
Oh Bethlehem, you will go down in history
As a city with no room for its King
While you were sleeping
While you were sleeping

Oh little town of Jerusalem
Looks like another silent night
The Father gave His only Son
The Way, the Truth, the Life had come
But there was no room for Him in the world He came to save

Jerusalem, what you have missed while you were sleeping
The Savior of the world is dying on your cross today
Jerusalem, you will go down in history
As a city with no room for its King
While you were sleeping
While you were sleeping

United States of America
Looks like another silent night
As we're sung to sleep by philosophies
That save the trees and kill the children
And while we're lying in the dark
There's a shout heard 'cross the eastern sky
For the Bridegroom has returned
And has carried His bride away in the night

America, what will we miss while we are sleeping
Will Jesus come again
And leave us slumbering where we lay
America, will we go down in history
As a nation with no room for its King
Will we be sleeping
Will we be sleeping

United States of America
Looks like another silent night

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Amy
Mom to Lauren, Eryn, Naysa
and announcing......
Gavin Michael Chase, 9 lbs 10 ozs
and 21 3/4 inches long on 10/13/09!

That's the one. My son plays the guitar and sang it at church after Christmas. I love the lyrics. Casting Crowns rarely goes wrong!

Thank you.

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Melissa

Thanks for posting those lyrics. They are awesome and so true. And as far as thinning deer populations - I'll never forget when we had a deer thinning done by professionals and the abortion clinic director was out protesting the killing of innocent animals. Geez.