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| The Cafe - 'TC' So? Your daughter wants her belly pierced? Your cat keeps using the couch as a litter box? Your husband taped the Hockey game over your wedding video? Your neighbor has a gnome collection and it makes you mad? Pour yourself a cup of coffee and come on in to The Café! Talk amongst yourselves...discuss, question, reply, or respond to many subjects! |
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While I don't necessarily agree with the message of the ad ---Of course people think their way of thinking is superior to others! It's human nature...And of course the more controversial the ad, the more publicity it will receive. Heck, this ad may not even air! But, it will still be the most talked about ad!
__________________ Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" |
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Here is my 2 cents. The NOW is all about free speech for themselves, but when it comes to free speech for an opposing viewpoint (a more conservative) then it's anti- whatever. From what I've heard, they haven't even seen the ad, it's supposedly a very well done ad. It's just the message they have a problem with. How dare them tell the world there is another options besides abortion, that messes with their agenda. I'm also VERY opposed to their name. They do NOT represent me, and I'm a woman.
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I haven't seen the ad but have heard of it. I don't have a problem with the ad per se (even though I am pro-choice but hey, we all are entitled to our own opinion) but I don't think the super bowl is the place to have such an ad. Just like I don't like ED, Sex lube (KY Jelly),Period products or racy Victorias Secret commercials during times when my kids can see them. I don't think many parents want their small children asking them what an abortion is during the super bowl. I know I wouldn't just like I don't want to explain ED or sex lube. There is a time and place for these commercials and this is just not the right place IMO.
__________________ Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003 |
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When they were talking about it on The View on Monday, I think, Joy pointed out it would be just as valid for Ted Bundy's Mom to say "I was going to have an abortion and someone talked me out of it and look what happened with my son" as a pro choice ad. I don't have anything against the message and I am torn because I do believe in freedom of choice but I also feel abortion is killing a potential baby. Because of the time I grew up and everything I learned I am pro choice simply because I know if abortion were against the law women who wanted them would find a way and that could be dangerous and unclean and done by quacks.
__________________ The political system is broke and it's a joke. |
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United States abortion rates, 1960-2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . |
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Also: As for the number of deaths from illegal abortions, in 1960 the total number of all pregnancy-related deaths (from abortions as well as from childbirth and other problems during pregnancy) was 1,579 (according to the Vital Statistics of the United States, Vol. II, Mortality, Part A. 1960-77). To believe the pro-abortion argument that over 5,000 illegal abortion deaths occurred, one must believe that the 1,579 officially recorded maternal deaths were all caused by illegal abortions and an additional 3,421 deaths were also caused by illegal abortions and the death certificates were falsified to attribute the death to something such as "heart attack" or "cirrhosis of the liver," and that no woman died from any other pregnancy-related cause. But in fact, for 1960, Vital Statistics attributes 289 of those 1,579 deaths to abortion (legal and illegal). In 1968, Vital Statistics reports 859 total pregnancy-related deaths; 133 of the 859 attributed to abortion. By 1972, the year before the Supreme Court legalized abortion-on-demand nationwide, there were 24 deaths from legal abortions and 39 from illegal abortions (according to the Centers for Disease Control Abortion Surveillance, Annual Summary, 1978). Not only have pro-abortionists grossly exaggerated the number of illegal abortions and deaths, they misrepresent what caused the decline in the number of abortion-related deaths. It had nothing to do with legalization of abortion. The number had been dropping steadily long before the first states legalized abortion. The real explanations are such factors as the availability of better antibiotics, such as penicillin, the establishment of intensive care units and better surgical techniques. Something to think about... |
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KTS---I don't think this is the place to trot out your alleged facts and figures. We all know where you stand, just like most know where I stand. I'd like to think that we could have a civilized discussion regarding something that mentioned abortion. I realize that you are very passionate about your belief on this matter. But, I am pretty sure that you are not going to change anyone's mind ON HERE. Just as I know there are some things that I have a strong opinion about--but I'm not going to change anyone's mind.
__________________ Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" |
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Position ads have traditionally been rejected by all the networks during the Superbowl. A couple of years ago, an ad for Unitarians was rejected. Focus on the Family is considered a radical organization. (They're the ones paying for this ad.) I do not get the point of this ad at all. His mom was told to abort. She didn't. That's what choice is all about. Anti abortionists would take that choice away from women. NOW's objections make sense to me. What's the point of the ad other than to portray women who made a different choice as inferior? |
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I don't think this actually qualifies as an issue of "free speech" The government isn't involved in this. It's a corporate decision. They have the right to put it on the air if they choose. Then viewers have the right to react positively or negatively. If NOW is against it they should speak out (although they're just giving more attention to the ad) And Focus on the Family should support it if it's important to them.
__________________ Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. |
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This topic has so many grey areas. I will first start by saying when I was young I believed in pro-choice. However as I got older and became more educated on the subject and being the true advocate for being a big animal activist and totally againist hunting and eating people I would be a total hyprocite If I was not pro-life. To me on this issue personally for me its either black or white and no grey areas except if the moms health is in danger or the unborn fetus has medical conditon that will ultimately cause their death . Now for the grey areas if a women or a singel young lady or a teenager decided to go for an abortion, if there were not proper and reliable and safe and healthy and care places to have the abortion it could be a scary suituation, like Anna mentioned. I honestly would just wish people, young women, teenagers men in included in all to take some extra time to use precaution to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Peace. Catherine
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No matter how I PERSONALLY feel about abortion I cannot feel good about making it illegal. I know there are women who use it as birth control and I know the figures are rising. However, like I said, if it were illegal there would so many people dying from botched abortions it would not be worth it. And two more things are 1. it is part of someone else's body it's attached to someone else, and 2. many of the women making these decisions are young women who are ignorant of the the facts who live in a hypocritical society, that is we preach about birth control and abstinence and advertise cars and alcohol with sex and have sex going on in the media all the time. Whether it's movies or tv or gossip shows it's sex, sex, sex. In other countries sex education consists of teaching young people about their hormones running wild, about desire, and how to find ways to pleasure yourself. We can't ignore that God made teenagers horny and stupid and that has a lot to do with children having sex and getting pregnant. Like I said I am torn on this issue. I don't have all the answers and I'm not saying I'm right and other people are wrong. All I know is that there are two sides to every story and if Ted Bundy's and many other worthless pieces of flesh's mothers would have had an abortion many other peoples' children would be alive today and they could've been the ones to cure cancer or do something wonderful for this world. I am afraid this issue will always be around and that until we find a way to teach young people how to deal with their sexuality in a responsible manner abortions will be legal. And it starts in the home but many of us I am sure had parents who taught us not to have sex before marriage but how many of us actually abstained until we were married? It is a difficult issue and as far as this commercial goes sure it's an inspirational story for this family but it's not right for every family.
__________________ The political system is broke and it's a joke. |
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You are one of the few! Other than my Mother and those from her generation I don't know of anyone personally who abstained until marriage. Of course looking back I certainly wish I would have.
__________________ The political system is broke and it's a joke. |
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That's interesting, Anna. I am in the opposite boat. The vast majority of the people in my life waited. Culturally, within my peer group, that was just a line we were all convicted not to cross. I had plenty of boyfriends, and by and large they, too, held the same convictions about sex, so I didn't deal with much pressure in that regard.
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May I ask your age? I am 47 and everyone I knew (growing up in SF in the 70s) thought it was normal and right to just have sex. I waited until I graduated high school because I was scared of my parents once I was 18 that was it.
__________________ The political system is broke and it's a joke. |
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I'm almost 43... grew up in a small middle-of-the nation farm town. Most of my friends had the same faith-based convictions about sex being a gift given for marriage. We weren't totally sheltered kids... we talked about it a lot, etc., but it was always framed with, "When I get married...." The idea of having sex prior to marriage just wasn't in our frame of reference, any more than driving around town without a license was. Interestingly, the adults I've landed with by and large grew up with the same expectations for themselves. I don't live anywhere near where I grew up. I'd say about 89 - 90% of the people I 'hang with' at some time during my week abstained.
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I was a virgin when I got married -- I can honestly say that there was virtually no "pressure" to have sex and all of my circle of friends were in the boat. |
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| That's interesting, KJ. And I think that really is the key - who your friends are. I am guessing that I gravitated towards the friends I did because that was a value we shared.
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I can't remember one single person, friend or not, in high school or even at catechism that said she wanted to wait until marriage. And we weren't floozies or bad girls that's the just the way it was where and when I grew up. I knew my Mom waited but that seemed very old fashioned to me at the time.
__________________ The political system is broke and it's a joke. |
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I can't explain it more than that. I don't totally get it myself. I just feel that women should have a choice. I don't know about the statistics but I know that there are people out there would set up shop in a minute if they thought they could get away with it and make some money. There might be a time in my life when I feel differently but right now I don't. I do understand why you feel the way you do Kathy.
__________________ The political system is broke and it's a joke. |
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I think this commercial SHOULD be shown. At least it would certainly be something besides sex and alcohol and stupidity being shown as most of the commercials are. I say show it! It may not be right for every family but it's something that perhaps every person should see. Last edited by mom2twins2; 01-28-2010 at 01:44 PM. |
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Good points, mom2. I know my own kids are riding the abstinence train. It's just not in their frame of reference to do otherwise. I know a lot of parents have their heads in the sand about kids and sexual activity, but fortunately that's not how we are in our home. Our daughter doesn't want to date until college (not something I put in her mind - she just has been part of a sex class at church that's been pretty frank and open and she came to the conclusion that she loves all the things she's doing as a high school girl with her friends and that she'll have a lifetime with the man she marries... and the chances of any HS boy ending up at the alter with her are pretty slim!)... and our son just broke up with a long-time girlfriend, and unbeknownst to him I had access to his texts and would occasionally do a 'text check' and was always really proud of him anytime I did, given what I know often goes on with texting teens. He and the former girlfriend had pretty deep discussions about weighty spiritual issues via text, etc.. I didn't check them often, but I saw enough discussions about how far they had gone to know that after 11 months, he'd kissed her goodnight a couple of times and that was it. It was mostly hand-holding and talking. The youngest one hasn't noticed girls yet so the jury is still out there. lol |
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How many people died of a veneral disease before there were treatments? I don't believe you can build an opinion on facts and figures that are selective or doesn't take into account all aspects of a situation. I propose that no one really knows how many women died of a botched abortion (when it was illegal) because the death was not reported by the family or the family physician as abortion related to protect the women's reputation. Just my opinion. And while you have gotten PMs saying you changed a person's mind---I've gotten PMs thanking me for sharing my story because it's shown that abortion isn't bad, and it's made women who have had abortion feel like they aren't alone or bad. But, I'm not trying to change minds. I'm not trying to shame a woman into making a decision. I'm not trotting out religion and religious dogma to support my position. Just like the Duggars have had the choice to have as many kids as they have had, all women deserve the right to choose regarding their reproductive system. Government should not have any say in that. If Govt. begins to dictate that all women must carry a child to term, then it's just a short hop to dictating how many children a women can have....As the old adage goes: Be careful what you wish for--you just might get it.
__________________ Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" |
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__________________ Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003 |
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The problem with the above posts is that unless it's a case of rape the woman HAD FREEDOM OF CHOICE. It's not the baby's fault it was conceived. 1. Woman has a choice to have sex. 2. Chooses to have sex. 3. Gets pregnant. 4. Chooses to abort (kill) fetus. The choice starts with the woman. What about the female fetus? She should have a choice too. I bet most of them would choose to have a chance to be born. |
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KTS--you don't know whether a fetus would want to be born or not. None of us do. EVERYTHING, and I do mean EVERYTHING happens for a reason. Whether it be the woman who carries a child to term, and gives it up for adoption thus creating a whole new family, or the woman who keeps the child to the woman who chooses abortion. Do you honestly believe that if God didn't want some things to take place he couldn't/wouldn't stop them? I mean we are talking about the God who flooded the Earth, the God who destroyed Babel, the God who tumbled the walls of Jericho.... Furthermore, there is no equality when the male bears little to no burden when it comes to carrying a child to term, but yet historically males have been the one who want to mandate a woman's reproductive rights! If it were up to the men (in theory) we women would be at home, in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. I understand your opinion. I respect your right to hold that opinion. Please try to allow me the same courtesy and respect. I applaud your passion. I applaud that you believe so strongly in something that you have no doubts. I just can't agree with you. And you don't seem to be able to discuss this particular subject objectively. Back to the topic: I don't care whether they air commercial or not. I think the statements made about the commercial as cited in the OP are off the mark. In all actuality, it still boils down to Mrs. Tebow had the right to choose. If the govt can mandate a woman carry a child to term, then they can also mandate when a child MUST be aborted. Just keep that in mind--again be careful what you wish for!
__________________ Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" |
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I don't know why this commercial is a "controversy". It presents a point of view. There is at least one other p.o.v on the topic and it is presented, if not at the same time, then at other times and places. Anything that allows people to think about a topic and make an informed decision is not bad.
__________________ Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. E. Roosevelt |
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Kts I agree with you about abortion I am againist , I am also for a doctor to decide that the moms life or the babies life is in jepordy and therefore a abortion last resort to take place so sad as that is. However to me when your pregnant it is not just your body to consider it 2 lives and the one growing inside of you, has no choice in the decision making and that is why I am againist it. I also truly wish this was more help aviable to all to educate them and offer them free protection so we can prevent all these unwanted pregnancies. The only thing that upsets me kts is that you keep mentioning pets and animals of course like I said before my own flesh and blood is way more important , there are millions of people who love their animals as their children, or may never been able to have any children so to them it is important just not to you, or rather you cannot understand it. Peace. Catherine
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Oh man, do I think God could stop something? Of course, but he gave us free-choice. We (all of us) make bad decisions hence we have wars, murder, etc... A "please explain about God giving us free choice" could be a whole new thread..... ![]() I know you are getting out of a bad marriage (been there, done that!) so your attitude of men is probably pretty low about now but there are a few good men out there who take their responsibility seriously. My sister and I have had the same discussion about "maybe God didn't want that child to be born", etc... but you also have to take into account the health care providers who are accomplices to the sin of ending a life. So maybe you can justify ending a pregnancy but if you believe that abortion is a sin (killing of an innocent) then you are also helping others commit sins. So that argument just doesn't work. I can discuss this topic with courtesy and respect and you know that. If you feel that you need to be defensive then that just might be your inner conscience beckoning you........ Mandating that a woman carry a child to term is sustaining a life that is already conceived and is developing. Mandating a child to be aborted does not correlate with our laws a perserving life (except for Roe v Wade of course). I worry much more that following the path that believes a fetus is not "alive" until it takes its first breathe could lead to the government also deciding that they don't want to pay for sustaining unproductive life, ie the seriously handicapped, quadriplegics that depend on breathing machine, etc... Anti-abortion laws sustain life. Pro-choice laws allow a woman to decide whether or not she wants her child/fetus to live. Setting this precedent could lead to further devaluing life. That would be a scenerio that could happen with abortion being legal. I heard on a radio station someone saying how they took a group on a trip and visited the Holocaust museum where they actually had all the instruments of death. Someday this might be what happens with tours of abortuarys and their instruments of death. |
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What I want to know is this: Would CBS be willing to air an ad that was pro-choice and showed a woman actually making the choice to have an abortion? I think not.
__________________ Jesus SAVES by shopping smartly and using double coupons! |
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2) I don't see it as a sin, no more than I see it as a sin if a medical provider assists a terminal patient in ending their life.... 3) I am not defensive (well, except for the whole "getting out of a bad marriage" comment). I think the people who protest and harass are fanatics and zealots--similar to the extremist Muslim, or any other religious terrorist. Except those outside the clinics engage in mental and emotional torture. But, that doesn't make me defensive. That is just my opinion. FYI---to anyone else who disagrees with me on any subject: My opinions and feelings are mine and mine alone. 99% of those feelings and opinions were developed LONG before I even met my ex. So, please, can we leave that out of the discussion?
__________________ Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" |
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I guess if you believe in euthanasia than at least you aren't a hyprocrit. |
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targetgirl...this was my thought today. I think there may be some danger, from my pov, in allowing this ad, because they opening the floodgates for pro choice ads. Not a good thing in my mind. I would be very upset to see that during the Super Bowl.
__________________ Melissa |
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| And if Roe VS Wade is ever overturned, our reproductive rights will revert to the government which may initially result in abortion and many forms of birth control being illegal, but 20, 30, 40 years in the future the government could be forcing women to have abortions, steralizing men and women against their will......... a slippery slope indeed.
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And see, that's what anti-choice advocates fail to grasp. While prohibiting abortion could be viewed as protecting life so could other things. Government could mandate that only blue eyed/blond couples could be parents (or some other combo) as that combination represents the strongest of the human race. Government could mandate that only Mormons (or whatever religion) in good standing could be parents---because that's the religion the government found to be superior.....These would be done in the argument that it would be furthering a better/stronger/smarter/superior race of people.
__________________ Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" |
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I was not going to mention the Duggars however with the last pregnancy and with all Michelles complications and the baby Josie Brooklyn being born almost 3/12 month premature born 12.8 due date 3/18 I believe, I was upset because it reading about any updates on the poor baby who was born so early and the life of both mom and child where does it end. However on one of message boards which I googled the Duggars mentioned they will welcome more children. I honestly cannot believe that, first off they has their last baby born 10 days before their baby Jordyn turned 1 years old. But so much more important to that is this is way way too early to even predict the full outcome of any health issues their baby girl Josie could happen. This was also Michelle's 5th c-section, I am sorry but in this case enough is enough, when will they be satisfied before something truly scary happens. Like Michelle who could bleed to death, can you imagine all those children and no Mom. So for their story personal speaking enough is enough please Duggar family be blessed you have 19 children enjoy them , have grandchildren enjoy them and Michelle please give your body a rest. Also Kts I agree 100 percent and sorry to not have mentioned it in the case of a Rape Victum abortion would be for me the only way. Peace. Catherine
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Why can we choose to have sex, but then not have to be responsible for the possible consequences of our choice? We all make poor decisions sometimes, the difference is how we then choose to deal with the consequences of our choices. |
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I don't need to see Tim Tebow and his Mom present their agenda during the Superbowl. As for sex back in the day, well I'm 61 and I can tell you there was a lot of pressure back in the 60's. I waited until I met my first husband but not all my friends did. We use to say ... some of us got pregnant before marriage and some of us were lucky.
__________________ Central Florida Chapter of Red Sox Nation! |
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More Super Bowl ad controversy CBS rejects Mancrunch (gay dating site) ad Super Bowl ad from gay dating site rejected by CBS - Jan. 29, 2010 "CBS (CBS, Fortune 500) said it turned down the ad partly for financial reasons, but ManCrunch believes that there's more to it than that." You can view the ad YouTube - ManCrunch SuperBowl Commercial |
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I see no reason CBS shouldn't show a commercial that ends with two men making out! (note strong sarcasm) This is what I meant in the other post. If they allow the FOTF ad, they have to give equal time to crap like this. It was a test...it will not end here. Even though the FOTF ad relates to one of the players, and promotes something loving and good, it won't matter. This will be pushed to the limits.
__________________ Melissa |
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More ad controversy Maybe the current poster mother for anti-choice is fudging just a wee bit Tim Tebow Super Bowl Ad May Be Based On Falsehood |
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