I've done some research. There are over a million abortions yearly in the US. Of that number, 1% are for incest and rape. Less than 6% are for maternal or fetal problems. We cannot completely trust tests concerning fetal abnormalities. My best friend's 9th child was supposed to have some abnormalities, or so the test results indicated, however her daughter will be 4 in May and is 100% perfect. So, let's estimate that less than 5% of abortions are either from a criminal event or a serious heath concern. Is it really necessary to abort 95% of a million healthy growing fetuses each year? With couples waiting years to adopt, many services available, etc.... how can we accept this? Close to a MILLION healty fetuses aborted earch year!! People here are appalled at China's one baby law but really, what's the difference? I know that "choice" plays a role but in the grand scheme of life these are still dead fetuses, whether willing or forced. If China's laws offend you why don't the US statistics?

I was pro choice for rmany, many years. I know tons of post-abortive women, one being a good friend. I'm not naive at all about horrible situations that people get themselves into. But most of these situations should not have led to a death sentence for a healthy child.

FYI Not trying to start any arguments here. I'm just wondering. I myself just never put this much thought into it when I was pro-choice. I was in the "it's none of my business", "better to have it safe and legal" etc... mindset. But it's ALL of our business what we are doing to our children and our country. Remember when your child graduates high school for every 3 kids getting their diploma a 4th one was aborted and is not there....pretty staggering statistics.

I just can't get past that 1. the baby is in someone else's body
2. Once the government starts regulating this where will they stop?
I respect your viewpoint and your beliefs. Maybe someday something will change my mind but not today.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

"it's none of my business", "better to have it safe and legal" etc... mindset. But it's ALL of our business what we are doing to our children and our country. Remember when your child graduates high school for every 3 kids getting their diploma a 4th one was aborted and is not there....pretty staggering statistics
I have never had an abortion and never would. However, your quoted words are correct. "It's none of your business" and it definitely isn't "All of our business" if someone chooses to have an abortion. What I do to my own body is no one's business but my own.

And also would want the right for my family or myself to have "physician assisted suicide" performed on me if I were terminally ill or in a coma. And I don't believe anyone but the immediate family should be interfere in that decision.

There are too many people now on the planet. We need to stop breeding like animals. There is nothing cute or endearing about raising children when the resources aren't there.

I feel it's a woman's choice if she has an abortion or not. Nothing anyone says will change my mind. I don't feel anyone else has any right to tell anyone what to do with her body.

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Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

When you say "pro choice" you are not just talking about abortion. As mrsnudge said, it also reaches to terminally ill and other situations. I had a friend who was in his early 40s and comatose. He "lived" in a nursing home for several years until his wife finally got permission to have life support removed. In my opinion, using life support is not helping the person...just prolonging death and playing God.

Back to abortions, if we are not going to allow abortions then we better think about how we are going to take care of the children that are born. Many of them will be born into horrible situations, adicted to drugs, and abused.

I personally feel that I would not be able to have an abortion myself. However, it it not my place to say what someone else can or cannot do. I do not know their situation, mindset, reason, etc. It is not my business. I control me. I also do not want someone else deciding for me what I can and cannot do. My personal decisions about me and my body are my business.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

OK, if there are a million abortions a year, how do you end up with 95% of them equaling 95 million???? It would be 950 thousand ... not 95 million! I know it was a mistake, and if your figures are correct (I haven't researched it) 950 thousand is a HUGE number. However, I agree with everyone else. A woman has a right to decide what is going to happen to her body. I don't think I personally could ever have an abortion, but I certainly don't feel I have the right to impose my views on anyone else.

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Linda

This is how I feel about it too!

I also feel that humans are way too full of ourselves...we really are just another animal on this planet!

"There are too many people now on the planet. We need to stop breeding like animals. There is nothing cute or endearing about raising children when the resources aren't there. " WELL SAID

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Be careful what you wish for.....

I am pro choice because, like in all other aspects of my life, I should HAVE the choice to do with my body as I please and I feel I have no right to try to impose my belief on anyone else.

I had a teacher who had this scenario in class once. We were talking about animal testing.

Girl who has small baby at home: I DO NOT think animal testing should be legal and I think it's horrible

Teacher: you have a baby right?

Girl: yes

Teacher: what if your baby had a heart problem and if it wasn't fixed, she would die. All other hearts found in humans wouldn't help her but if you used a baboon heart, she could live. Would you use that baboons heart or let your baby die?

Girl: it's my baby...of coarse I would try to save her

Teacher: then you are okay with animal testing?

Girl: no

Teacher: if you use the heart of the baboon to save your baby, you do think animal testing is okay. There is no "sometimes it's okay"...it's okay or it's not. You may not be for all the reasons it's okay but you are okay because it would be okay for your baby to get a baboons heart.

That really opened up my eyes a bit. There is no "gray" area. It's yes, it's legal or "sorry you got raped but you must have the baby". Sorry, no government is going to tell me I have to have a baby I am pregnant with because I was raped. It just isn't going to happen. The government has no right to tell me (or anyone else for that matter) I can't make that decision and if they are given that right, there's no telling where they will stop (as said above).

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I have always found this type of thinking very odd.If you truly feel this way why do you or anyone else for this matter still have children ?.( given you have children kvmj I don't know if you have children or not ). However if you do what gives you more right than anyone else to have YOUR child(ren) than the next person ?.I have heard other people say the very same thing
"this planet has too many people, people need to stop having kids" while the whole time holding the hand of thier OWN children.(baffling to me ) or their grandchild(ren). I have always wonder do they say those same words to the child(ren) also?.( Nothing says I love you more than hearing you just took up space and you're breathing air thats in very short supply ).

I never say anything when I hear this, I figured others that hear this or are hearing it can think on their own about it. But I do see the same confusion about the statement from them as I have.

Also, Do you( general you or for kvmj & dannic) When a family member or a friend does have a baby, do you also tell them Congrats but this planet is already full so make this your last child ?.

I guess I have a hard time understand people feeling this way . when they have kids or they are also living on this planet . Now to me thats self entitlement of the worse kind.

I never had any kids and will never have any kids and if I did get pregnant I WOULD have an abortion! As far as me living on this planet...well I'm already here aren't I, it's not like I'm going to kill myself because there are too many people! I'd never run and tell a relative or anyone for that matter they shouldn't have kids because there are too many people but anyone that knows me knows that is my feeling, that there are too many people already on the planet.

Some people don't care to have children and some people do( all fine with me either way ).Right since you are already here as you say, what gives the person ahead of you any more right to tell you, Gesh whats up with you mother doesn't she know the planet has too many people now, why did she fill it even more by having you.. I guess I'll never understand why it's OK to say NO MORE CHILDREN,while the person is still using the resources on the planet, I mean whats good for the goose should also be good for the gander also right ?.

It still stands as you said you are already here and you are not going to kill yourself, well that lady that just found out she's having a baby could feel the same way and since you are not going to cut the usage of the resources by removing yourself from this over used planet then why should she.She has no more right in telling you, hey you have lived 20, 30, 40 years and you have used the resources in their short supply now it's time for YOU to remove yourself and give my child the same deal.

It still slices and dices the same to me. self entitlement at it's worse.

I do have children. I believe that intelligent people should reproduce. Stupid people are certainly breeding. However, I was able to bring up my own kids in a table home with plentyof money to feed and clothe them. I would never have had more than 2.

My friends and family members are all well educated and financially stable. None of them have more than 2 children. Some of them have none at all.

Would I bring children into this world that would cause others, myself included, to starve? No, I would not do that. I don't think that the quiverfull families have the right to do it either.

It is not my job to tell anyone how many children to have. It was my job to educate my children with facts and not mythology. It was my job to raise good productive citizens. I did my job well.

I have expressed my opinion, numerous times. And whether you want to believe it or consider it: If government can force a woman to carry to term, then government could force people into NOT reproducing. Government could have told your friend who has 9 or so kids: "We're sorry, but your limit is 3". Government could mandate that only certain people could reproduce. Government could mandate WHEN a person could give birth (only women between 25-35 for example). It is a slippery slope.
I am not willing, nor should anyone be willing to allow Government to exert that much control.

Yeah, I understand your POV. I respect that you have the right to that POV. But you have to consider all possibilities and not just the ones that work with your POV! Assuming you want to play the "what if" game, as in "what if the child you abort would have had the cure for cancer?": What if the child I aborted had been the next Ted Bundy, or worse?
What if the government told you when, where and how you could reproduce?

You don't have to agree with abortion. You don't have to approve of it. You don't have to think abortion is right. It's a matter of DO YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT IN CONTROL OF YOUR RIGHTS/BODY?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

You beliefs have a lot in common with many a dictator/tyrant throughout history.

It is not so much a case of the government telling us what to do with or bodies, as much as it is stopping people from killing other people. In the cases where you have chosen to have sex, you have also chosen to accept the responsibility of your actions. The possibility of pregnancy is a direct result of choosing to have sex.

As far as only intelligent people reproducing, hmm... who decides who is intelligent enough to reproduce? Maybe we should not have more children than you are able to love and provide for, though.

If you have made the choice to have sex and you do not "want" the result of your choice (the child), you should carry that child to term and allow someone who would like to raise that child to have a family of their own.

Maybe if more women had to carry the child to term, they would think more carefully about the possible consequences of their choice to have sex with someone. To me, it is all about taking responsibility for your actions.

So do yours. If you want to outlaw abortion. then you believe that government has the right to control female reproduction.

The problem with that line of thinking is that many women are young, ignorant, and don't have the money or resources to adequately take care of a child. Regarding adoption, unfortunately many of these same young women can't even take care of themselves during pregnancy. The chances of having a baby with lifelong physical and mental issues increases dramatically.

Young women often don't realize the consequences of their actions, with sex as well as with a number of other things. I don't think people should suffer their whole lives for an ignorant decision made in their youth.

There are many children in the world right now who don't have a family. There are not enough potential adoptive parents to take them all in. Just think of all babies and children who languish in orphanages around the world with nobody to take them in.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

And sometimes the responsible choice IS having an abortion. Sorry, but it's true.

There are plenty of children in foster care as we speak---and they are there because women chose to have children that they were not capable of caring for or about.

I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that having an abortion was the right choice FOR ME. I don't advocate abortion as the answer for everyone. But, I'm certainly glad everyone has the choice, and gets to make their own decision.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I agree.
What about the father's rights?
What about God's rights?

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Square dancing is friendship set to music!

Well, I can only speak for my situation: The "father" didn't care about a lot of things. He was certainly not capable of caring for a child.

As far as "God's rights"--God gave me the intelligence and the ability to make choices. If I made a bad choice and violated God's rights--I will be the one to answer for it.

Do you or I actually know what God has planned for us? Who's to say that God didn't have it all mapped out, and knew I was going to have an abortion? And trust me, I prayed without ceasing when I realized I was pregnant for the answer on what to do. Don't kid yourself--my decision wasn't entered into lightly.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

These only apply IF you believe in God and what your personal interpretation of those rights are (if any). God doesn't have any rights in my life

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I do not think that women need to be punished for having sex. You hold in your mind a vision of a super virgin, chaste until marriage. It doesn't correspond very well with reality.

Your solution for the unwanted pregnancy is unrealistic. We could not possibly find enough adoptive parents for these unwanted babies. Besides, it would eliminate adoptions from other countries of living, breathing human beings.

I don't believe I've ever alluded to my personal beliefs on abortion on these boards.

My issue with your comment is that you believe you are somehow more intelligent than others, therefore, you are entitled to reproduce while others are not.

I've met a lot of people in my lifetime that would qualify for genius status but haven't got an ounce of common sense or initiative in their entire body. I just don't see how they are better "producers" than others.

"What about God's rights?" Um if you dont believe in GOD then he has no rights....

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Most women in this country are aware that babies are created from having sex. I have no vision of a super virgin, I just don't think that just because a woman may be ignorant that she is no longer responsible for her choices. There are also many ways to prevent pregnancy (married or not). If you happen to be one of those women for whom the method(s) failed, you are still responsible for your choice to have sex, life is just not always fair...

I think that carrying the child to term would give a woman 9 months (at least) to think about making the same choice the next time they want to have sex. Not as a punishment, but because you have to deal with the results of the choice you have made.

We, the adults (or young adults in some cases) should be focused on teaching our children that all choices have consequences and that life is not always easy. Maybe thinking before we act would eliminate most of the need for abortion in the first place?

I agree that there are many unadopted children in this world and I wish I had the answer
I just can't believe that the solution is to eliminate the children.

I am intelligent. My husband is intelligent. Our children are intelligent. All of us are more intelligent than most of the people we know. We all know what we're doing and we're good at what we do. I've met people with no common sense too but I'm not related to any of them. As far as production goes, I have never had a blue collar job. I doubt I'd be good at packing widgets on an assembly line.

Not knowing what you think is why I used the word, "if".

'

Whoa....if you think that the decision to have an abortion is an easy one then you obviously haven't had to make that choice! The consequences of my having sex was that I got pregnant. The consequences of getting pregnant was 1) carrying the child to term with the possibility of it being born w/ issues (the father was an alcoholic, I had been on Rx medications in the earliest of the pregnancy), raising said child in an enviroment that was less than ideal. 2) carrying child again w/ the chance of health/developmental issue and giving it for adoption, 3) abortion.

I chose after a lot of soul searching and countless sleepless nights and neverending prayers to abort.

If you don't have an answer for the children in foster care, I think that's the fight we need to fight--and not whether abortion is right or wrong.
Give the children who are already here a chance, as opposed to fighting for more children to be born that may or may not be taken care of.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

The teenage psyche is very different from that of an adult or even children. It's why they do so many stupid things. They honestly think that they can control a car at 100 mph or have sex without protection and not get pregnant. (there are great things about teenagers too) But, thinking before they act is too much to hope for.

I do not regard a clump of cells as a human being.

This is also my point of view. There are currently half a million children in the US alone without a stable home. Until we take care of the children that already exist and need parenting- we shouldn't even be thinking of forcing people to give birth to additional children.

We always hear that it takes forever to adopt. Well, that's only true if you want to adopt a pefectly healthy WHITE newborn. If you can open your heart to an older child, a child with special needs (maybe long term, maybe as short term as a month or two) or a child who may not physically resemeble you- the wait times are considerable less. I have 3 nieces and nephews that were adopted at birth- 2 were healthy, 1 was not (but overcame that within months) all are black or bi-racial, adopted by white mothers. The wait times were about a year, with much of that spent being interviewed and getting the ball rolling.

You've said that a million children are aborted each year. How many of them would be healthy? A small percentage may have birth defects that are known at the time of the abortion- but how many of those mothers would care for their bodies and the bodies of their fetus'? I'd guess that many babies are aborted because their mothers are too poor, too addicted to drugs or alcohol, or too careless to carry an infant to term. How many have mental issues that they know about, but can't control? Perhaps they don't want to pass those genes on because they know how awful it is to live with. Our hospitals are already full of indigent people that need our help. Can we really handle the burden of more?

How many of those million babies would be a minority? The simple fact is that many white parents will not accept a child that has a different skin tone. They have their reasons, and they have the right to make that decision for themselves. However, if a large portion of those adopted babies are Black or Hispanic- will they be adopted immediately? Or, will they grow up in Foster care being bounced around and aged out at 18? Again, while that might be better in some eyes than a death sentance- can we as a country handle that financial burden?

Sometimes the responsible thing is to know what you can handle, and what you can't. As a woman and as a nation. I'm grateful that although it's a choice I've never had to make- I live in a country that understands it IS my body and my choice.

Exactly...I get so tired of all this god this and god that CRAP! I do not believe in god! God has nothing to do with my decisions I make in my life!

As far as teenage girls being responsible and knowing the consequences of their actions, I once talked to a girl, about 16 or 17, when I worked in social services. She was convinced that if you did it a certain way you wouldn't get pregnant. I've also talked to girls who had been anally raped and were worried about becoming pregnant.
Just because you or I know something doesn't mean everyone knows it. There are many young girls out there just aching for someone to love them and they want babies. If every one of them had a baby what a messed up life those babies would have.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

You can say that again. I'm with you 100%.

I have a question about this... If we were to force a woman who didn't want to carry a child to term, would we then monitor her actions? Do you believe that a woman forced to carry a child she doesn't want is going to refrain from harmful behavior - i.e. drinking, smoking, drugs, not eating right, etc.?

I believe that all people should be responsible for their actions, but I do not believe that anyone else should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body.

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Kim

A. There are alot more doctors that could have cured cancer that have been aborted than serial killers.

B. The government tells us lots of things we have to do that concern our bodies-wear seatbelts, wear a motorcycle helmet, etc...insurance don't pay for experimental treatments, etc... There are all kinds of rules out there that concern our bodies.

No one is really addressing the topic. Does anyone care that most abortions are for convience in one form or another? It is a baby that's being killed-you don't say it's a blob of tissue if your friend has a miscarriage do you? WHen did we loose the value of life in the womb and determine it's a womans "property" to do with as she pleases?

I don't know you so I can't agree if you are intelligent or have raised productive children. Thats your opinion and as with anyones opinion they like to think theirs is the only right one. Guess that goes all back to it's the only one that really matters in the long run.

I'm sorry but this statement is so strange to read. What gives you any more right to bring in your children than anyone else ?. Is it because you believe you are intelligent (or more so than someone that has more than 2 children ?)
If thats you point I'm sure someone with a higher IQ and has only 1 child or none at all should have told you not to bring in the 2 you have because thats just 2 more that will have to live off the resources. then they are the ones that get to judge you and call you less than intelligent for bringing 2 children into a world thats ruining out of natural resources.See that ball can be played from both sides. The ones that has less than 2 children as you play it with ones that has more than 2 children.Thats why we shouldn't make comments on how many or who gets to have them. I know people that have book smarts but lack common walking around sense.Sure doesn't give them a free pass to have children.

I guess I'll never understand why one side believes they are MORE entitle to have a child(ren) than anyone else. Someone could say the only ones that can say this are the ones thats no longer here.Self entitlement sure can get sticky on both side huh ?

I'm sure your decision was not entered into lightly. It's a tough choice to make.

Yes God gave us free will. You will have to answer for all your decisions. God does not plan for people to abort the children HE places in our wombs. Read what Mother Theresa has to say about it. Isn't there a scripture verse about "I knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb", etc...? If you really belive that God would allow this to happen to you and for you to abort then on the logic displayed on here wouldn't He just have not let you get pregnant in the first place?

I believe if look at what happened prior to Roe v Wade you won't find that all these pregnant woman went out on drinking, smoking, binges, etc... I think we need to bring morality back to this country, and add in some shame while we are at it.

So you are ok that 95% of a million pregnancies each year are ended? You are willing to think that most of these children don't deserve to be born and given a chance because of the situation they might be born into or other obstacles? So in this country, one of the best, if not the best, in the world all these babies don't have a chance and shoiuld be killed before birth?

LOL, and you know this how? "The lady doth protest too much."

Wow, that's too bad, because exluding any and all blue collar work sort of limits your options should you ever find yourself in need of a way to make ends meet.

Actually, if you go back and re-read your original post, based on your punctuation, that is not what you said. Your original quote was, "So do yours. If you want to outlaw abortion." I think what you meant to write was, "So do yours if you want to outlaw abortion." No period and the "i" in if shouldn't be capitalized. I'm sure you knew this though since, as you mentioned earlier, how much more intelligent you are than everyone else you know.

[quote=kvmj;3362541]There are too many people now on the planet. /QUOTE]


That is 100% incorrect.

As far as God goes.....Mary was an unmarried, pregnant teen in a period of time when unwed mothers were stoned to death......This is the situation He chose to bring his only son into the world. Can any pro-choicers out there say God didn't want it this way? And if so, do you think this could be a message that life is precious from conception to birth? And that He is in charge of whom he knits in their mothers womb?

I don't believe in god so I would say that Mary was just another girl/woman who had sex before she was married. How do we know she was a virgin? Because the bible said so? Sorry...I just don't believe it.

If a girl today ended up pregnant and said she was a virgin she would be called a liar or at the least she would be told that semen near the vagina can find it's way to the egg.

Mary is not a valid argument to me.

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

How in the world do you know that there have been more "doctors that could have cured cancer that have been aborted than serial killers"? Seriously, do you have some sort of inside track that the rest of us don't?

Ahhhh....the government makes a law regarding seatbelts or helmets, but you don't HAVE to do those things--you have a choice.

No, frankly I don't care why a woman chooses to have an abortion. Just like I don't care if a woman chooses NEVER to get pregnant. That's her right, her choice.

Of course one wouldn't tell a friend after a miscarriage that it was just a blob of tissue. That would be insensitve and uncaring. Unless of course, the woman didn't want the embryo/fetus in the first place.....
However, having had a miscarriage myself, I can honestly say that I realized that I miscarried because something was wrong; either with my health or the embryo. Many women miscarry before they even realize they are pregnant.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

What I want to know is this: How many children are abused, molested, neglected or murdered every year?

I think the children would be better served if the pro-lifers would spend more of their time trying to protect/care for the children who are already born instead of worrying about the unborn.

But then I guess it's MUCH easier to use emotional manipulation when BABIES are involved. Most people think babies are precious and adorable. An abused 5 year old who is basically feral is a much harder sell emotionally because there is NOTHING cute or precious about that.

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Jesus SAVES by shopping smartly and using double coupons!

I know what my IQ is. I know what my kids' are. I'm not ruling out blue collar; I'd sure take it if I needed the work. I just have not had trouble staying employed.

I know that you would like to think that smart people do not understand hard work; most of us do. Hate to disappoint you.

Answering KTS's questions....

Yes

There are plenty of kids to go around or are you referring to the supply of white newborns?

I'm not appalled

Neither offends me

Of course you are trying to start an argument. If you were not then why are you arguing with pro-choice posters? I'm sure you don't care about the opinions of pro-choicers. You just want to continue your pro-life preaching.

Yep.


Nope.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

No one is really addressing the topic. Does anyone care that most abortions are for convience in one form or another?

It isn't my right to oppose this. What another woman wants to do with her body is not my business.

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Quote: No one is really addressing the topic. Does anyone care that most abortions are for convience in one form or another?

Another nope here.

I am in complete agreement with you. Do we need to bring MORE children in to situations where they are not going to be appropriately cared for?

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Kim