I am so angry and appalled at the actions of these missionaries. I just have a weird feeling that there was nothing innocent about what they were doing. I'm not saying they were ill intentioned toward the children...I don't know. I just have a bad feeling.

Like they were going to do whatever THEY thought was best irregardless of whether the children had parents, or what the law said.

What were they thinking.......????


BBC News - US missionaries 'knew they were doing wrong' in Haiti

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Melissa

Melissa, I don't know much about their situation (other than interviews you've probably also seen). Prior to the earthquake, I had signed on to be part of a group that goes to the island of Hispanola to work with children in an orphanage in the D.R., and to provide some food and other things for some Hatian children who live in a dump on the border between those two countries. I have not yet made my trip so these statements are not based on firsthand observations... but we had been learning about the orphanage before the earthquake, so my information isn't tainted by recent events, if that makes sense.

We were told that a number of the children in the orphanage where we will work actually have one or both biological parents still alive. The parents are apt to be too poor to care for them. They might have several children and only be able to afford the first one or two so they turn subsequent babies over to the orphanage.

A couple of years ago some relatives of mine that do medical mission work arranged to have a girl with a terrible tumor come to the states for care (sadly, that adorable little girl eventually died). She was from a Central American nation. Her mother was a drug addict, if I recall correctly, and the grandparents were already caring for other grandchildren, so they put her in the orphanage. They had to give permission for her to leave the country, even though they had relinquished their rights to her while she was in their own country. That little girl talked about her mother and had in her mind that she and her mother were 'bonded'. The reality was, her mom was a mess. But if you ASKED her about her home, she would tell you she had a mom and that her mommy had pretty hair, etc. Had she been released to family members, she would not have been given back to her mom, from what I understand.

The organization I'll be going through has orphanages in both the DR and Haiti, and the people who launched the Haitian one began in the DR. The same parent ministry owns and operates both of them.

A couple that works at the orphanage we're going to was in the US on furlow (furlough?) a couple of weeks ago and came to see us to answer any questions our group might have. That visit occurred after the earthquake, and we asked how the earthquake would effect things for our trip. The wife said, "We have not been on the island since the earthquake, so we really can't say, but we fully anticipate that we will have Haitian children there by the time you arrive in the summer. From everything we are hearing, the need is so great that it just seems logical that they will request that we take on some of those children."

So... what does all this mean? Well... when I saw the people on tv who are currently being charged with kidnapping, I heard them say that they were simply taking the children from the orphanage in Haiti that had been destroyed to another location run by the Baptists in the DR. Our organization is not connected to the Baptist Church, but I know that ours has multiples and that the ones running the place we'll go assumed Haitians would be there eventually. That tells me that people there must have a mindset that some cross-border things take place and it is not to be unexpected.

And of course, the other thing I will mention is that simply having living parents did not mean that the children had not been designated as orphans and turned over to the orphanage for their care. The little girl who was in the states with my cousin was very emotionally invested in the living-but-absent mom back home, and if asked, "Do you have parents?" she would have responded, "Yes, I have a mommy and she has very pretty hair!"

In other words, the fact that the children were upset to be leaving their parents does not necessarily mean that they had lived in a happy nuclear family before the earthquake and they were desperately trying to locate a mother buried in the rubble... kwim?

My guess is that they were just really clueless. So, so many things down there, from what we are told, happen with a wink and a nod and laws are rarely followed. If that had been the norm and those missionaries knew that technically, the kids weren't supposed to leave Haiti without proper paperwork, but that their being moved across the border had not ever been a real problem in the past, well... I can see why they would do what they did and think they were saving the kids.

Or, they could be really bad, ill-intentioned people who are claiming to be missionaries as a cover to their real plans for those children....a lot of people hide behind church and faith as a cover to other things because then people tend to trust them more.

Just a thought. I really don't know what to think - I can see both sides. Hopefully they'll figure it out in court.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Lisa, I might think that except that as a group, they don't fit that profile. My understanding is that they are people from different Baptist churches, are of varying ages (some were clearly adults in their 40's - 50's, and other looked college aged), and they went there specifically to help out at an orphanage associated with their denomination (Baptist).

I don't think you could so quickly assemble a group of only marginally-known-to-each-other individuals who all had the same ill intention to pull off a covert child stealing plan days after a major natural disaster, kwim?

My guess is that they are terribly naive people who just assumed it wouldn't be that big a deal. Has it been said that they were trying to get them in to the US, or just that they were trying to transfer them to the orphanage (also affiliated with the same missions group) in the DR?

"I might think that except that as a group, they don't fit that profile" That is an interesting statement...
John Wayne Gacy did not fit the profile either...
Alot of people dont fit the "profile".

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Right, danni, except that this is a group, not an individual, and not a group of people who even knew each other well ahead of time to bond and then conspire to commit a crime with ill intent.

Profiling is not always accurate, but consistent traits are what they are. Proof? No. But helpful in painting a picture? Absolutely.

To me, the trafficking accusation implies that they were looking to engage in some sort of black market, profit-driven child snatching. I just don't think that is the case here.

It will be interesting to see if it must be shown that taking children across the border to the DR had previously been done by similar groups for altruistic reasons prior to the quake without any penalty. If it was a common practice despite the law, it will be a shame if they are penalized for trying to get the children to a safer place while their own orphanage was still in ruins. At most, I think if Haiti is truly going to crack down on this a fine is in order, not jail time.

I support the fulll prosecution of this group. It really bothers me to see people completely violate or push the boundaries of the law in the name of their religion and their personal beliefs. Not everyone needs to be saved in the way that someone else believes they do - and to do so in the name of religion is particularly disgusting to me.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

But cjs, if in fact it has been the practice that orphanages run by the same groups in both countries had been allowed the freedom to move children between their locations in Haiti and the DR without consequence, it is not right to suddenly start enforcing the law without warning, particularly at a time of crisis where there are many children who specifically need care.

It is my understanding that those children were already signed over to that orphanage by parents who were unable to care for them either because of their own poverty, or because the parents died prior to the quake. That organization still had the facilities to continue to care for the children for which they were responsible - the facility just happened to be across the border. And I believe that the organization that owns those orphanages had been allowed to move children back and forth between them when there was overflow in the past without going through lots of hoops.

The Haitian government is perhaps the most corrupt in the western hemisphere. They are not known for protecting or caring for their children. That's why so many US-based charities have locations there - the need is severe. The Hatian children we will be helping this summer are in the DR illegally. They live in a dump that is right across the DR border. There are more food scraps on the DR side of the dump, and that is all they have to eat. We have been told that when we arrive at the dump, they will likely run and hide. We will be taking sandwiches and beverages and leaving them there with an individual who is best described as the godfather of the dump. He distributes it to the Hatian children once the gringos leave. It just sounds like it is all extremely dismal.

I'll feel much different about this situation if it turns out that their intent was to sneak them into the US illegally. So far, I have not heard that was the case.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to be aware that adoptions and child movement in Haiti was restricted shortly after the earthquake. It was all over the news.

I just got back from the mountains of Guatemala....I know about leaving my lunch for the children and adults who don't have much. We had a 12 year old boy who didn't know how to eat chicken...he hadn't had meat in his life. I'm not denying that the need is critical; it's just that people can't violate rules and regulations under the guise of some cause (religion in this case)

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I agree - but I do think we need to know more about the situation before throwing the book at these people. They may have just been following a commonly-accepted practice. WE knew here that there were big issues cropping up in the 24 - 48 hours before they attempted to move the children, but they were in a much different situation. They were there, on the ground, without the benefit of tv or even much cell phone communication, I would guess.

I may have misunderstood, but my impression is that they were taking them across the border in broad daylight on a regular road, not sneaking them out under cover of darkness. As facts pertaining to those issues become known - whatever they are - I think we'll have a much clearer picture regarding their intentions for those children.

Hey, I said prosecution....a trial or grand jury or whatever is the right legal venue....to determine the facts and make a decision.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

But see... even then... I'm just not ready to even prosecute. Investigate yes, prosecute yet, no.

Here's why...

Organizations like that exist pretty much hand to mouth. They are not income-generating properties. Every dime they get goes to supplying the needs of those children. I'm currently working to raise the money to go myself, and know it is no easy task.

Defending ones self in court is an extremely, extremely expensive proposition. If they want to make an example of anyone for violating a law that they themselves have not upheld until now, I'd much rather they throw the book at someone who is unquestionably profiting from the trafficking of Haitian orphans. Every dime this historically legitimate organization (as far as we know) has to pay the lawyer is a dime they can't use to feed a child.

So I certainly say it should be investigated... but unless it is clear that they were going to attempt to adopt those children out to US families and not return them to a Haitian orphanage when it became safe to do so, they are not the group of which I would make an example and bleed dry.

It's like the Christian missionaries who go into countries where Christianity is "outlawed"---they get arrested for handing out Bibles, or holding "church" meetings. ummm....HELLO? You knew that it was illegal, so don't cry too much when you get in trouble! That irritates me to no end.

I don't know what these people were thinking or doing when they took the kids. I want to hope that they were trying to "do the right thing"....regardless, the situation needs to be investigated.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I am appalled that they thought they could just into a foreign country that is in trauma mode right now and take advantage of the chaos to take these children some of them who do have parents. They should have gone through the proper channels to do this. If they had good and pure intentions that is what they would have done. Just because you're a religious group with good intentions (which I find questionable at the very least) doesn't mean you can circumvent the law.
I had the idea that maybe that they thought they were "saving" the children from what they consider a "godless" society and bring Christianity to them.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Exactly. And I'm willing to consider them innocent until proven guilty...

From what I've read and heard on the news, it seems they had a "ring leader". From what I gather, those that went with her were probably ill informed as to her intentions or knowledge of what they were doing.

I think they will probably be let go and she will be held. Just speculation mind you. She seems like a loony toon to me.

I just really wish that this had not happened. One bad apple you know.

My friend who has an orphanage in Montrois is there working hard within the law. This situation may make the Haitians wary. I hope not though. She has a genuine love for the Haitian ppl. I get the idea that the ring leader of this group.....I can't express it. She just seems off.....

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Melissa

She very well could be, Melissa. I haven't had the news on much, so I haven't seen much - just some short interviews with those who had gone from Utah to be of assistance. They seemed pretty clueless, and I didn't get they idea that they had gone there to get themselves involved in anything illegal.

These people from where I live and there is a lot that isn't being reported about the group nationally that has been in the papers. The leader of the group (they were all from the same church group and did know each other) Laura Silsby has a LOT in her past... Interesting stuff.
Here is a link.
Laura Silsby, a local missionary to Haiti, left trail of financial woes in Idaho | Haiti earthquake | Idaho Statesman

very interesting! Wonder why mainstream national media hasn't reported this??

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Interesting Becky so she is not on the up and up after all.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I actually had heard some of this. I forget which but either CNN or FOX interviewed one of her employees. It's just not out there like the rest of the story. I just wish they would put this story away and keep us informed of what good is going on!

It is interesting though.

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Melissa

I did not read the long post, but I studied human trafficking in my latter 3 years at University. It doesn't matter if the folks were trying to do something that is best for the child, they were still trafficking and it is against the law. It is up to the law now to hold them accountable even if they didn't know what they were doing was illegal.

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-Kristi

They should just sweep it under the rug, so everyone can pretend that only good things are being done?! Are you kidding?! Absolutely not!

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

That is not what I meant.

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Melissa

I understood what you meant, Melissa.

There is an element of people who would much prefer to watch 10 Americans who have been accused of unsavory things on the news as opposed to the thousands of Americans who are in Haiti doing amazing, generous, heroic things.

It's "in" to want to see Americans portrayed as the bad guys, dontcha know?

What she said...

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Melissa

What did you mean?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

You can't be interested in both? Everything is either good or evil?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

In my other post, I said it was interesting. I think maybe you are reading more into my intent than was meant.

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Melissa

My good/evil post was directed at wowitsdark's comment that there are "people who would much prefer to watch 10 Americans who have been accused of unsavory things."

I think there are people, such as myself, who would much prefer to see all sides of a story.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I think most people, such as yourself, prefer to see all sides of a story. You aren't unique or in a special category because of it. You can put me in that category.

But, sometimes, stories like this are only pushed because it gives people an excuse to villify Christians and/or Americans. She is one person making terrible decisions. There are hundreds, probably thousands more missionaries doing wonderful, courageous deeds in Haiti.

I for one am glad the story is out there, things like this need to be exposed. My thought about not dwelling on the bad, but the good was kind of just me "thinking out loud". "Gee, I just wish the people that are doing great things were making the news like this woman and her crew." That's all. Nothing more. Not really something worthy of this much debate.

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Melissa

Exactly, Melissa.

However, when you say, "...things like this need to be exposed," I absolutely agree, but I also believe there are thousands of other things that are probably much worse than this that happen every single day down there right now. I am not saying these people were right or wrong because I don't think we really know for sure yet. I am saying that it is not the only bad thing happening in Haiti, but it is the one they are choosing to highlight, and a certain element of posters here seem tickled to death because the label "Christian" belongs to those accused.

I think they actually LIKE it. It makes them feel smug and self-righteous because they think it validates their belief that Christians are bugs that should be smashed.

I guarantee you if it was a group from Obama's circle of friends down there being accused of this same thing that they would be excusing the behavior.

And there it is!

I was waiting for the O-word to be thrown out...when he has NOTHING to do with this post or it's intentions.

And the one trick pony rides again....

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

You were waiting? Why? You are silly.

The post has evolved, that happens a lot. Exploring different ideas, exchanging ideas. Not sure why you had to pop in to make it personal.

the one trick pony rides again......lol

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Melissa

I honestly only care that the money is going to help these poor people of Haiti and their children may god bless them all because just from the pictures I see on the t.v. and the papers the pictures are so sad. I cannot even begin to imagine the true tragic devastations over there. Peace to that country and its people. Catherine

You are right...the post was evolving and people were making great points. I just find it a shame that people need to go there (no matter what side of the forum you are on) for reasons only to make a dig....and it is the reason that I haven't been engaging on any posts that go in the political direction lately. IMO, that statement was not an exchange of ideas, but an opportunity to make a dig....and a non-productive one at that. A true exchange of idea would have stuck on point...which was this group and their involvement in doing something undesirable. The poster chose to take the conversation in a direction that I thought was non-productive and started to turn it into another one of "those" threads ....you know what I mean, the thread where someone says something about Obama, and then someone feels the need to defend him, and then someone bashes Fox News, and someone needs to defend it...and before you know it we are back in that vicious circle and the tread is closed just when something good gets going. The poster chose to use Obama, when they could have chosen any of the other groups down there....how about the ones working for Wycliff...or George Clooney....or how about the Red Cross...but, no...went right for the Obama. It is typical, boring, and frankly overdone around here....

Oh, and people's "opinions" are "personal".....so, it is always "personal" around here....

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

People's opinions are personal, but your comment was personal to a particular individual. There is a difference.

Why even get involved if you find it typical, boring and overdone?

Wowitsdark could have chosen any of the people or organizations mentioned, I think she was just casting a wide net. You got the point. Why pinpoint one portion of the post and not just read it in a more general sense?

So now who has changed the subject to something that really has nothing to do with the original post? You've created a situation that you claim to want to avoid....

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Melissa

That's cute.

I could've said just about anyone else. Actually, my post originally said "athiests", but then I realized that athiests don't tend to always have as may rabid followers as politicians do, and that you will rarely see an athiest group going to foreign countries doing charity work, so I decided to change it to the name of a politician who does in fact send delegations of people into troubled regions... and given that my 'top liberal politician choices' were Obama, Reid, or Pelosi and only one of them still has any followers, I went with Obama.

Actually, you couldn't be further from the truth.

I wasn't trying to make a dig. Obama-follower is one most liberals wear with pride. I was just looking to make a comparison.

The poster with whom I was exchanging has a history of being very antagonistic towards those who profess Christianity. She readily expresses a complete lack of respect for the faith.

However, as is true for most of us, when we have a personal affiliation with anything, there is a natural instinct to believe the best from the outset because we feel like we 'know' the one whose honor is being called into question. We relate to them because they hold dear some of the very same things we do, and as a result, we are ready to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The same is true in the reverse. If you already don't like or trust a group or person, they are immediately suspect when anyone calls their honor into question for anything.

Because the poster with whom I was conversing has made her own positions on religion and political affiliations pretty clear, I wanted to make an analogy. I couldn't use her religion to do so because unless I am mistaken, she things religion is the root of all evil. The only true affiliation I've ever picked up on is her affiliation to her liberal politics... so I went with that.

I heard about it on Fox.. about the main leader's past. Doesn't sound too good.

Yes, you can be interested in both, but we only get 24 hours in a day, and only a few of those hours (if that) to watch the news.

And the news can only cover so many stories.

I was thinking...

There is a childrearing philosophy that encourages giving lots of praise and highlighting the positive... catching children being good and holding that good behavior into the light and making it known that, "This is what I value!"

This is the direct opposite of what you sometimes see in the aisles of your local discount store: "Johnny, if you do that one more time I'm gonna beat your butt right hear for everybody to see it, you hear me?!? Stupid kid!!!!!"

While it's both important for children to feel that the parent recognizes their worth AND for children to know there are consequences for bad behavior, there really is an art to disciplining with both good and bad words to help shape something.

I don't think it is the duty of the press to 'shape' our nation, but it is true that the stories they allow us to encounter shape our perception of 'us' and our nation. When they only report how 'bad' we are, it's easy to decide that we're rotten and that the world surely hates us for it.

When they report only good things, we don't buy it because we know there is bad.

In Haiti right now, I would assume there are literally thousands of Christian Americans who are doing incredible relief work. But rather than hearing about how their faith is driving them to love and care for people, we're hearing, "I HATE WHEN CHRISTIANS GO OVER THERE AND THINK THEY CAN JUST ... "

I just think it's a shame that THIS is the story about Christian relief groups that is getting the press. I think it is the exception and not the rule.

I admit that Fox is who I usually have on, so my limited knowledge of this specific case has come from there. Initially their reporting seemed focused on the missionaries and statements from them. The last I think I heard was Shep Smith promoing a piece with a, "But is there more to this story?" in a way that made me think there was probably some dirt that seemed to be coming to light.

So first you claim the issue is "cool" people who only want to hear bad things about Americans. Now it's that if people see a story about whack-job Christians they'll assume all Christians are whack-job. I don't think we need to treat the American public as though they were naughty children in the grocery aisle.

Not everyone makes broad generalizations, like you do. As evidenced by your post that you don't hear about atheist groups going down there. Atheists aren't organized as "groups." You are painting atheists with the broad brush with which you fear people paint Christians. Hypocrite.

The story is newsworthy.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I don't think wow makes broad judgments at all. Her posts on subjects are always well thought out, well written, and she articulates very well. I may not always agree with her on things however I respect her opinions and I know she doesn't shoot her mouth off without thinking about what she is about to say.
I feel I must speak a different language than you jujubee as I don't interpret things as you do. We all translate what we read in our heads and I don't see what you're saying in the posts.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Of course you don't see what she sees in the posts, anna, because it's not there. She claims she stays away because of the arguing, but yet she's the one pushing an issue that simply does not exist.

The story is newsworthy. That's why I started this post in the first place.

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Melissa

Thanks, Anna. I probably do occasionally 'shoot my mouth/fingers' off in short knee-jerk statements, but I really do try to avoid that.

I agree, Melissa - it is newsworthy.

It reminds me of a couple of years ago when our soldiers were accused and found guilty of crimes at Abu Graib (sp?). It seemed those who were against our presence overseas almost paraded that issue around with pride, saying, "SEE? I TOLD you we're only causing problems and making America look TERRIBLE in the eyes of the world!" And yet the reality is that for every soldier that committed a crime, there were probably several thousand who did not, and it seemed to place a black mark square on the forehead of every one of them when someone branded them as 'hated' because of the unfortunate behaviors of but a few.

What have the Haitians had, historically? Not much of anything but poverty. I don't know that I've met but one or two Haitians in my life, and strangely, one of those two is a woman I met and had lunch with the day of the quake. We visited about our families, etc., and she spoke about her mother ( who also now lives in the US) feeling so conflicted about living in America. It bothers her mother to no end that the grandchildren are not growing up with many of the things she, as a Haitian, would consider 'traditional', but she also said that the poverty and lack of any good future prospects is what drove them to the states. The woman was pretty spunky and ambitious and I really enjoyed her... and she seemed so appreciative to have 'opportunity' in a way that she didn't have in Haiti, even though she missed her extended family. I never visited with her again - I assume she was in her room glued to the news after that meal, since the quake struck soon after.

Bottom line... they've had little but misery and suffering. They have not had much in the way of freedom or opportunity. People complain here about the gap between the classes, but in nations like Haiti, there is no middle class at all. Either you live in a mansion or you live in a shack. There is no such thing as a mid-range suburb.

Christian groups choose to go to places like Haiti because of their faith. They believe we were created by a creator, and that the creator wants those who have to seek out those who have not, and to care for them. It's not just a 'nice thing' to do... it's something your faith drives you to do.

A friend of mine who went on a trip similar to the one I'll be going on this summer and I discussed this a couple of years ago. I said, "I'm really conflicted about this, because sometimes I wonder what good it really does for us to send people down there with suitcases full of toiletries and snack foods and extra clothes and bedding and just leave it there. When do they ever learn to fish if we just keep passing out things that won't really change their lives."

My friend said, "The difference is that in that world, you really can't help them measurably change their own fate. The government is not set up to allow them to go anywhere economically. Unless their government changes, all people can do is go there and give them things that will make them less hungry and less dirty and less sick, and hope that in some way you've helped. Really, 'help' is all you can do for them. It's not something we are in a position to 'fix.'"

If someone's faith motivates them to go in and 'help', isn't that better than if that person had no faith and the people in impoverished nations were never the recipients of that faith-based assistance?

And yet, it seems that there are some who would say, "If they are going there in the name of Christ then they really shouldn't go at all."

I find that sad.

If not in the name of God, Christ, goodness, whatever then in the name of what? The people who go there to do good have something motivating them. While they are not all Christians and while I am sure there are many atheists who are good people with good intentions, you will certainly not find anyone doing it for monetary gain.

It's dangerous to lump all people of any type into a stereotype. These people no more represent all Christians than John Gotti represents me and my family or Bernie Madoff represents all investment brokers.

ETA just because one wacko with a record is profiled doesn't mean all religious groups have nefarious intentions.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Children are commodities all over world, what the group in Haiti did happens every day in other countries. Before this news story even broke, dh and I wondered how long it would be till the vultures swooped in and any of them were exposed (they rarely are in the media). We even wagered a few names in the U.S. adoption community that we thought we'd be hearing about.
I am glad this story is receiving the amount of coverage it is and I wish it would lead journalists to dig deeper than the situation in Haiti and expose how wide spread the practice of trafficking in kids is all over the world.

What you say is true... and yet somehow, until it was a group of Christian missionaries who were accused, the media never really bothered to investigate. That's the part that makes me roll my eyes.

If you're talking about me, I never claimed that.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

These aren't generalizations?!

From wow:

I think they actually LIKE it. It makes them feel smug and self-righteous because they think it validates their belief that Christians are bugs that should be smashed.

I guarantee you if it was a group from Obama's circle of friends down there being accused of this same thing that they would be excusing the behavior.

In another post, she wrote that she was originally going to use "atheists" instead of "Obama's circle of friends."

I find it odd that wow is pounding her little fists because she thinks Christians are getting short-shrift in their news coverage. I thought Christianity was about doing charitable work without a lot of hoopla? Yet, Wow is worried because Christians aren't getting enough "good" new coverage amid a tragedy that is about Haitians, not Christians.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Yes I was talking to you. My apologies. What you said was that you avoid political threads. I went back and looked.

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Melissa

Where did I say that?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Sorry again. It wasn't even you, it was Kelliiiii. carry on....

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Melissa

Why does it have to be "in the name of" anything? Why can't people do charitable acts just because they care about the suffering of others?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Isn't that in the name of good?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Who are these people who hate Christians and want to hear bad things about Americans? These people are a figment of Fox news' imagination.