As many of you will remember I worked for the Census Bureau from January 2004-June2009.
The propaganda has begun. Stories are running in local papers around the country stating there is a $5000 fine for refusing the Census. That is BS. NOBODY in the history of the Census has EVER been fined.
Don't believe me? Call them yourself. 1-800-233-3308 and ask them how many people in the history of the Census have ever been fined. Ask which entity enforces this. There is no enforcement division or bureau.
The Census Bureau is one of the most fiscally irresponsible agencies in the Federal Government. They've just spent $133 million on paid advertisements and $2.5 million on three 30 second Super Bowl spots. I don't know if this includes the millions spent on the stupid buses they are sending throughout the country.
As Americans we have the right to refuse the Census. They will waste more money sending out temporary employees to your home over and over again if you don't make it perfectly clear to them that you intend to keep your private information to yourself. You may also have to ask your neighbors to not disclose your personal info as they force their employees to try to get your info that way.

They will use their money to pay a private investigator to find out where you work and try to contact you there. They will look you up on FaceBook, Myspace, and Linkedin.


ALL OF THIS IS PAID FOR TAXPAYER DOLLARS at a time when budgets are being cut everywhere else.
Make your own decision based on what your beliefs are however don't be intimidated into answering out of the false belief that you'll be fined because you won't. You don't have to take my word call them yourselves and ask them.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Amen sister!!! I was furious to see the Super Bowl Ads!! That is our tax money they spent on those stupid commercials!!! I believe I heard that by law the only answer you are required to give them is how many people live in your household. The entire thing is just silly!!

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Those ads really pissed me off as well. What a waste! How about keep some jobs instead of ads.

I intend to answer how many people live in my household. That is all they need in order to get the proper representative number. I know a lot of people use old census forms to access family tree info (ancestry.com uses them I know) but the government has all the personal info they need to know about me on my tax return. If agencies actually talked to each other, they wouldn't need to send a census out

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Another fact: The Census is changing the counting of incarcerated inmates. This is due to the fact that most jails/prisons in the country are in rural areas. The changing of this count will mean less people in rural areas thus the metropolitan areas will get more Congressional representation in the next election and rural areas will lose some. Many people believe this is to give a bigger voice to metropolitan areas as they tend to be more liberal.

Change in Census Bureau data on prison population could reshape political map - latimes.com

I just want people to have all the facts before they decide whether to respond or not. I can think of many ways our tax dollars could be better spent than to send out people in their cars (Census workers in most communities go alone) wasting gas and time and federal dollars that could be better spent on other things.

I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow make a scapegoat out of me and have me be the very first person in the history of the USA to be fined.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

This is so lame. Where was the hue and cry when Bush requested $511.8 million to continue planning the 2010 census?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I can see where a census is a good thing but it all depends on how it's handled. Those commercials were soooooo bad and so expensive. If that's how it's all handled then it's a mess.

I didn't see them, so I can't comment on the content, but it doesn't really matter. They've created a huge buzz, so people are now well aware of the census.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I think the census is very important for many reasons and I can't wait to find out the new numbers. Although they will never be accurate it is interesting to see how things have changed in the US from 10 years ago.

When i was in college, I used a lot of census information for my research in my classes.

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-Kristi

There was plenty of a fuss you must have missed it. Maybe not on these boards. I was still an employee and I kept that pretty much secret from strangers. The people I interact with and many of the people whose homes I went to for the Census were plenty mad about the expenditure.
I, for one, complained to my superiors (as I am first a taxpayer and was second an employee) about the waste of money. There are many things the Bureau does that waste money. One person driving in a car going to the same freaking houses all month is the least of the waste.
Every single month, every single employee was required to submit a stamp form whether they used a stamp or not. Someone in the office (so someone with good pay and benefits) processed those thousands of forms every single month. I sent back my stamps saying I would no be responsible for them as it was a waste of taxpayer dollars to process my forms every month.
This is just one example of stupid policies that waste money.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

They probably would not have felt the need to make the commercials had not the likes of Michele Bachmann and others, been running around "encouraging" people to not fill it out because it is some Orwellian plot to enslave the American public.

I think those of you who see a threat around every corner should stand up and not be counted. Go for it!

I for one am thankful for this particular waste of taxpayer money. Our county has twenty percent unemployment and I'm really hoping to get hired and make some extra money!

I understand where you are coming from though anna.

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Melissa

It's not about seeing a threat around every corner it's about sending a message that I don't support an agency that wastes money at such a great expense to taxpayers in this time of economic hardship.

I don't see it as a plot to enslave the American public. I see it as a financial boondoggle. If they can't spend the money in a responsible way then they shouldn't be allowed to have a blank check to do stupid things like pay for Super Bowl commercials and buy buses to parade around the country.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

was fantastic!!!! I couldn't take my eyes off it-especially the flying dude! Ithink I'll watch it again when they re-air it later tonight. I love Indian dancing, cold, snow, mountains-it was perfect for me!

Hear! Hear! When the census-takers ring the bell, put on your tin foil hat and hide in the closet.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I worked for the census in 1990 - I was one of the ones that had to track down those that did not turn in the census forms.

For the sake of argument...

I understand how most of you feel about this becoming a "Big Brother" nation, but before you decide to not fill out your census form remember that a lot of your City, County, and State funding (as well as political representation) is based on population and if you are not counted it decreases the amount of that funding.

Plus, those upset at the spending for this... if you do not fill out the form you will be adding to that expense.

You don't have to fill out the whole form, just fill out the part that says how many people live in your home. If at least that much is filled out they will consider it a completed return.

JMHO

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Mary

I just fill it out and return it. I don't see the big deal...

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Me too. I fill it out and am done with it. No big deal.

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Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

It may not be a threat to you, but to the followers of people like Bachmann, it is a threat and the census perhaps felt compelled to answer that threat with advertising, in the hope that it would mitigate some of the fear that is being spread.

Even money spent in an irresponsible way creates jobs, People had to plan, and create and act in those commercials. People had to build, decorate and drive those buses. Those are jobs. Whenever money is spent, it usually creates work for someone, somewhere. Silly way to do it? Probably. But those bus drivers and ad makers are probably really happy to get the work. Their communities are happy that there is one more person around to use their services, be it, gas stations, dry cleaners, grocery stores, etc. I don't like waste either, but even waste, sometimes, is not all negative.

And I will repeat, those of you afraid of the census, do what's right and refuse to be counted. It's good for the country. It's the patriotic thing to do.

But in the end, if nothing is actually PRODUCED through those jobs that has tangible value, it was just wasted tax money. We might as well have paid them to walk around the block 1000 times.

I think all those who oppose the census should refuse to participate. Then, when it's shown that you didn't and we wasted all that tax money that Bush allocated to the census, you can whine about it. Just don't stand up and be counted. Whine in case it happens and whine if it does happen. It's a whine-whine situation for you folks!

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I guess it depends on what you consider "producing". They put a roof over their head, food in their stomachs, paid out their income to help others "produce" the same for themselves. What does the person sitting at a reception desk produce? What does the clerk at the grocery store produce? What does the librarian produce? What does your average CEO produce? None of these people actually produce anything that is tangible, touchable, or edible. They do a job, that someone has determined is worth paying them a salary for. The same for our ad maker and bus driver. Everyone who has a job, regardless of what they "produce", adds to the general economic well being of their community and as a whole to the country.

And if "producing" means things less than tangible to you, then they "produce" an awareness of the census and it's importance.

Will these be long term jobs? Probably not. But for right now, they help fill a large void and keep a few other people afloat that might not otherwise be able to do it without this job. Just because you don't value what they produce does not mean it's not of value to others, either directly or indirectly.

I have never been censused in my life.Do they only census rich people or something?Not that I'm complaining.

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What I meant was that at the end of the trail of 'duties/jobs', nothing is actually produced except statistics, and those statistics aren't a commodity anyone will pay for, and they don't do anything to make the entity that collected the statistics more streamlined and 'better' at doing business.

When, for instance, Coca-Cola does a survey, they put that data to real use and end up selling more Coke. There was an actual VALUE to their survey, because it helped production and sales. People received beverages. A real need / want was fulfilled.

I guess an analogy for what I'm thinking is when kids do a walk-a-thon to raise money for their ball team, vs. getting out there and shoveling snow for pay in order to buy their new uniforms.

Huh? The census is mandated by the Constitution.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Many of the people who do answer the Census lie. I know I recorded answers. I could do nothing about it. Census takers are to accept the answers given. I've had people say a different race, income level, etc just to skew the statistics. When I reported this I was told to record the answers they give. There are many situations where their own criteria for data forces wrong answers to be recorded. Case in point: several of the communities around here have utility companies that provide electricity, water, and sewer on the same bill. When asking utility amounts if they don't know the breakdown the census taker is to split the amount in half; half for water, half for electric. That is not the true amount for either utility.
Also, the Census bureau does nothing to encourage people to respond other than sending a form letter to their address by mail. Yet the Census takers themselves are responsible when people refuse to answer. Nothing about it is logical. Nothing about it works correctly. And for ACS, which was formerly the "long form" they ask people if they are American citizens and I can tell you that's another question respondents lie about when answering. In five and a half years about 90% of the people I talked to found it to be intrusive and an annoyance. Many people "refuse" the income questions, as well as many others. So the data is for the most part incorrect. So what's the point?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

The census is mandated by the Constitution.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Other than television ads in a targeted time slot to reach a huge number of people all at once and where the advertisements are much of the entertainment.

Other than the busses that travel about and reach a large number of people.

As for no longer counting those jailed in rural areas. The new rules make total sense to me.

No system is perfect. I work for a large organization. I see errors (in my opinion) in decisions made by those superior to me, and I am sure those who are affected by my decisions see my errors (in their opinion) as well. It's easy to appear like an expert and know everything about everything when you don't have all the information and aren't the one making the decision.

I am glad you were able to find another employer - sounds like you were quite uphappy working for the census and no doubt they sensed that unhappiness.

Except.... that as a taxpayer and a former front-liner, she obviously has some insight and a vested interest in the process.

I know that the 'underlings' don't always get the big picture, but it is also true that sometimes the people at the time lose sight of things. Undercover Boss demonstrated that quite well last week.

I understand why the government wants to know many of the things the census seeks to discover, and I make use of census-derived data in my own vocation. I use what is helpful to me and ignore what undermines my position.

Knowing how I use it, and knowing that ultimately it's politicians who plan to use it, as well, it stands to reason that other than the basics like population data (which can be used to gerrymander), it's ripe for politicians to skew as they choose.

Are you now referring to the money spent on the census in general or the money spent on an ad campaign? Because the census would be more effective and streamlined, if people just filled out their forms, (to whatever degree they choose), and send them back in. The money spent on repeatedly visiting the same house adds up quickly. The phone calls too.

The statistics are a commodity and many companies that use the statistics for help in making choices for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure if they pay for them or not, but they do use them.

And without the census, how would we determine how many representatives each state is to have? It also helps determine how federal and state money is doled out to states, towns, and communities.

I enjoy statistics so it will be interesting to see what changes have occurred in my city over the last ten years. We show a very small percentage of Hispanics here as of the last count. But we now seem to have more Mexican restaurants than we do McDonalds so the next census should show an increase in Hispanic residents. It will be interesting to see if the median for houses has changed much. If the percentage of elderly has changed. The level of schooling. The number of minority owned business, etc.

Yes, you do that with all sorts of things.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the census is mandated by the Constitution. The founding fathers wanted it. If you want it changed, you'll have to get an amendment passed.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I'm mostly referring to the money spent on the ad, and the waste, in general, that seems to occur with this and many government agencies. I do understand the importance of the census. I always do just as I'm supposed to do and fill it out.

I don't think a lot of people - those likely to lie on it - trust that the politicians who get their hands on it in the end will use the data honestly.

Given all the buzz around the ad, they're getting the attention they wanted. I suspect if they put on a bunch of ads at a cheaper price with a show with lower ratings, it wouldn't be getting this kind of attention. I didn't even watch the superbowl, but I've heard tons about this ad. I've heard more about this superbowl ad than any other.

Seems pretty shrewd to me.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Nothing shrewd about it.... You are hearing so much about it because there are a lot of people in this country sick and tired of the government wasting money!!! Now granted, Mr. Obama is spending money at a faster rate than any other president in the history of our country, but it is problem with both parties. Wasteful spending over and over again!!! The super bowl ad just happens to be the one in the limelight this week.

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I haven't heard it mentioned since the night it aired, other than here. I hear Dorito and etrade baby talk.

I am just not convnced a Super Bowl ad will result in any better results than in years past.

Audit finds US census preparations wasted millions - Yahoo! Finance

Very interesting. And I can vouch for the mileage spinding. Most of the time I worked I earned twice as much in mileage as I did for hours worked. I would earn $250 f0r working, for example, and over $500 for mileage in a two week period. I kept extensive records of my travels because it always made me nervous but I was never questioned in five and a half years. .I thought it was just because I live in a big county, geographically speaking. I had no idea it was par for the course. They keep the reps alienated from each other. As a matter of fact when I asked for the name and phone number of the lady who ended up with my cases (described below) so we could help each other out, I was told there is no reason for me to know that information.

When they reduced my caseload 30% to prevent me from qualifying for benefits, they gave those cases (in the town closest to mine) to a lady who lives two counties away. Thus she was paid mileage and driving time to go two counties away while I became more and more frustrated knowing I could feasibly work for them forever and NEVER qualify for benefits.

I am telling you from experience they waste money. Here is another waste. When a rep goes to someone's house and they hand them the filled out form each form is FedExed individually (because you usually only get one at a time and it needs to be sent in right away). I suggested the reps enter the information then mail all the forms in at the end of the month with other stuff that needed to be mailed. I was told the info on those forms was "weighed" differently than the info received by a respondent answering. I asked why can't there be a radio button added that says "info collected by form" and again was told, as I was over and over when I suggested easy to implement money saving measures, "the govt is not going to change the way they do things. Keep it to yourself nobody wants to hear it". At least in private industry they take your suggestions and pass it on to the people who could consider it even if they never intend to. The govt wasting our tax money says "we are not even going to consider it so shut the hell up". Really nice and responsible.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

From that article:
On a positive note, investigators backed the Census Bureau's decision to spend $133 million on its advertising campaign, saying it was appropriate to boost public awareness. The spending included a $2.5 million Super Bowl spot that some Republicans had criticized as wasteful.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

The gov't pays around .50/mile depending on the year. If you made $250/wk mileage you were driving around 500 miles/wk. That is major wear and tear on your vehicle, plus gas, taxes, and insurance.

20mpg = 25 gallons of gas = 75 bucks. (generally, people who make minimum wage have cars that get less mpg)
Insurance 1200/yr = $25/wk (some states as much as $3000/yr)
Taxes and registration = $5/wk
General wear and tear - brakes, oil, wipers, etc = $15/wk
A new cheap car = $12,000 and you would need one around every 4 years driving 500 miles a week = $60/wk
Cost saved by gov't to not have to store and manage the fleet of cars = $30/wk

So, at the very most you made an extra $70/wk and the gov't at a minimum saved $30 in storage and administration and you take ALL the risk your car will work when you need it to.

Sounds like a deal for the gov't to me.

As for benefits --- yet another cost saving measure by the gov't. And, at the amount you are squeeling about hating your job, I wouldn't take the risk of having you a full time person either. That was a huge cost saving measure.

I completely get the whole mileage vs. 'company car' option, however it sounded like part of the issue was that people weren't necessarily assigned follow-up jobs in a very efficient manner. My understanding was that someone in one county might travel two counties over to do work, while there was work in his/her own county that needed done but was assigned to someone coming in from elsewhere.

The article I linked also indicated a large percentage of the people who signed on to work were paid for the training and then quit before ever taking on a single case, wasting several million dollars. I hope they found some stopgap measure to keep that from happening. I wonder if they did a poor job explaining the requirements up front to those they hired.

Regarding the Super Bowl ad... I didn't think it was all that clever or effective. My brain may work differently than that of most people, but I'd have found it more convicting if they had pointed out why it is to my benefit to fill out my form and send it in promptly. Heck, if they'd put GHWB and Clinton on there exchanging a couple of funny barbs, and then saying in seriousness that the data collected from the census helps determine things like school funding, ending with a humorous, "Things are getting tight around here, so don't make us pay somebody to track you down," I think that might've been more effective... lol

A large percentage of McDonald's minimum wage orientees drop out after the first paycheck as well. That is the cost of doing business in a minimum wage world. I am sure that if it was more cost effective to pay more knowing fewer would be so quick to give it up, they would. But then, people here would moan about how much census workers are paid ......

Just the car issue alone might be a deal breaker for many when the start to do the actual math. My guess is most lose money on the mileage part. As for giving the route to someone else ..... my guess is there were good reasons.

I've worked for three Federal agencies. We get audited all the time and we have major budget restrictions. At one, I had to bring in my own paperclips, folders, and tape. When I travel, the amount of record keeping is a pain. I get paid a lot and it is quite wasteful for someone at my level to be wasting an hour documenting my travel to request reimbursement. I know my time would be better spent if there was an honor system and those few who do cheat wouldn't cheat more than the majority like me who are honest. But, that is one wasteful thing that is just a part of doing business.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised many people want to do the census thing. Consequently, the quality and reliability of the workforce is sure to be difficult. I can see where scheduling people working at that wage could be a huge challenge.

I assume this is not typical of lesser-paying jobs, but when my college roommate signed on to work for / train with a major data firm, she agreed to compensate them for the training she received were she to want out of her contract before they'd gotten their money's worth out of her.

We really don't want people working for us at that level if they don't want to be there. Civil service is not the military. We can't force them to work, so the most the Federal gov't could do would be to pursue them in court. It won't be worth it to have paid attorneys chasing relatively poor people down for a few hundred bucks they most likely no longer have. And, at that level, many couldn't care less if their credit rating goes down a little more.

True, but I guess I just don't like the idea of shrugging off paying people millions of dollars and getting nothing in return. I don't want to accept that as 'just the cost of doing business' when we're supposedly living in an era where people are desperate for jobs.

Seems like there should be a way to tie that first paycheck - or lack of a paycheck - to productivity. Like... an open casting call for 'free training', and a signing bonus paid after the first sixty days of actual employment.

At the time I was speaking of I was very happy with my job. As a matter of fact when I realized it was my two years and I was eligible for benefits I called my supervisor and told her I loved my job I wanted to make it my career and I was four hours a month short of qualifying for benefits. She told me she would see what she could do and the very next month my caseload was cut 30%. I had not complained about one single thing up to that point. So your theory is incorrect. It was not until after I got screwed and discovered 30% of my cases had been given to someone two counties away that I complained. And for what they were paying someone to come two counties away (about an hour and a half driving time and about 100 miles) away they could have paid for my benefits.

You can think what you want I was an excellent employee. For the first time in many years my county had a very high response rate. As a matter of fact I had a 100% response rate for over 12 months in a row. The way I talk about it on this board is not the way I talked to my superiors. I was offended and shocked when my caseload was cut 30%. It's not fiscally efficient or responsible to pay someone to drive an extra 100 miles and and an hour and a half (on taxpayer money) simply to prevent another person from having decent benefits. And she had to drive back and forth several times a week to do the job I could have done driving 20 minutes and 20 miles.




ETA: McDonald's doesn't pay people with OUR TAX MONEY. That is something you don't seem to be getting. If someone wants to waste their profits on paying non working employees that's their business. When they start paying with our hard earned money then it's OUR business.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I was kinda suprised to see the US census commercial during the SuperBowl and hope like heck that the airtime was not funded with tax dollars, but a public service spot or something. I guess they need to try to get a full participation, but top-dollar advertising is a little over-the-top in my opinion.

On the other subject, I think it's never a good idea to badmouth current or past employers in public forums and think doing so is unprofessional and in really, really bad taste. It tends to reflect more poorly on the person than the company or entity and I can't believe that the lousy attitude isn't obvious on the job as well. JMHO.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

cjs, yes, it was funded with your tax dollars. No PSA freebie there.

I understand what you are saying about badmouthing employers, but I think this is different. Anna was a government employee, so 'we' were paying her, and 'we' probably deserve to know when 'our' money is being poorly managed.

She's not just gossiping about past co-workers. She's essentially whistleblowing about inefficiency that occurs at our expense. That's fine by me.

One of my co-workers was going to take the orientation then quit, because she figured she could go for the 3 days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, it wouldn't interfere with her part time job she already had, because she only got 6 hours at work this week, and she would make $300 for the orientation. She decided against it at the last minute, but was actually thinking about doing it. She worked for the census before.

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Interesting Anna that you are complaining about the money that you made now however when you were working for them there were no complaints....


"She's essentially whistleblowing about inefficiency that occurs at our expense. That's fine by me. " I understand that, however I cant stand when I see it happen AFTER the person is let go, or fired, or whatever. If she felt that this was so morally corrupt, then why not speak out sooner?? Probably because the money was paying her bills...

And why would it be shocking to count inmates??

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Be careful what you wish for.....

I stayed there because my first loyalty is to my family to help with the expenses of life. I applied for other jobs the whole time I worked for them and several times during the five and a half years I worked an additional part time job but it wasn't enough to quit. I earned my money believe me it just ridiculous to be sent back over and over to places where the residents either out and out told me to go away or where they were obviously avoiding me and ignoring my notices.

And it's not the thought of counting inmates they've always counted them. It's the plan they have to make inmates count in a different way to essentially change the Congressional districts. The inmates are generally in rural and semi rural areas which are generally speaking more conservative. By not including them as part of the Congressional districts that will make the metropolitan areas "more populated" thus giving them more representation in Congress. The metro areas tend to be more liberal.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

lol, you make it sound like it's a bad thing.

That is such a good idea! I definitely agree that your approach would have been much more effective in letting people know WHY it's important to mail the form back to save TAXPAYERS money. How hard a concept is that to understand?