as anyone who's been around here knows, I divorced in December (with pretty good reason). Some things have come up the last couple of weeks that I needed a little objective input on.

1) X accused me of harassing his current girlfriend. I have not been. I don't have time, energy or inclination (and I certainly don't want him back!). Up until that point in time, x and I had been being very amicable about things. At the point when he accused me of that, I stopped being nice. I let him know that he was late on child support (as he has been from day one) and I was turning it over the state for collection. I advised him that he needed to get the remainder of his stuff out of my garage or I was selling it. I pretty much quit trying to "work" with him on this kind of stuff. Was that the wrong thing to do?

2) the kids have been miserable on the weekends w/ the father (they are 10 and 12). He lives in a rinky-dinky, tiny apartment and he's not exactly stellar "daddy" material anyway. So, I talked to the boys and told them that the choice was theres. They could see their dad anytime they wanted, however if they didn't want to spend weekends with him, I was not going to make them. They chose not to. X huffed and puffed and threatened to have the police come and force the children into his vehicle for his visitation. I reminded him that the parenting plan(that he signed/agreed to) set forth that overnight visits were at my discretion, and that I had primary custody. Should I force the kids to spend time w/ their father?

3) And this is the biggie! Today is the oldest child's birthday. I am having his party tomorrow at my house. X informed me that he was going to be out of town for the birthday and the birthday party. (he's driving 4 hours to spend the weekend with his new girlfriend and her son!). Two things about this made me angry: #1--he can afford a road trip, but can't afford to pay child support?? #2--the child was devastated when his father told him that he wouldn't be in town, and wouldn't be putting in an appearance at the birthday party. Are my feelings of anger justified?

4) X's new girlfriend (who the kids have not even met), sent the oldest $20 for making A/B honor roll, and sent the youngest some fart noise making trinket. First--I don't believe in paying kids for getting good grades. It's just not something I think is a good practice. Second--she hasn't even met them! Does it sound like she's trying to manipulate and/or influence their feelings by giving them stuff? Or am I just being overly sensitive?
Keep in mind, this is the girlfriend that X was seeing prior to the divorce even being filed....

I really do want your opinions. I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and think I've done the right thing. It's hard for me to be objective because X is such an @$$ in general, so I know that I'm likely to get upset over anything he does.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

1) I don't know if it's the "wrong" thing to do, but it is certainly natural for you to feel that way. I would have reacted the same way and done the same things you did.

2) No, I wouldn't force them to spend the weekend with him if they don't want to. What sense does that make? And I certainly wouldn't worry about him threatening to call the police: I'd tell him to go ahead.

3) Yes.


4) I don't think you're being overly sensitive, but if you're a little worried that she might "win them over" by doing this kind of stuff, I guarantee you have nothing to worry about. Your kids are old enough to see right through that kind of nonsense.

I think you need to put the children first. Why would you tell them they don't have to go see their dad? Who cares how big his place is? They will have to deal with it. I would not appreciate an ex telling the children they no longer have to visit. I had a girlfriend who divorced and kept telling me she was not influencing her child on whether she called or saw her dad, but when I was around and heard how she talked or made little comments here and there it became very apparent what was happening. Who cares if he thinks you are bothering his girlfriend. You already established a long time ago he is liar so it sounds like he is just trying to get your goat, and able to push your buttons. The not paying child support I would have a problem about. His wages can be garnished from his employer and then you don't have to worry about it. The fact is that you two have two children together and it would be best for them if you can be civil to each other. Since I don't know you or your husband I guess I am basing my response on the way I have seen other divorces handled. In most cases it seems that feelings get hurt. Just don't use the kids as a way to get back at him.

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Check out my homepage http://julie.mycoupons.com/

I think it's wayyyyy too early for you to adjust to all the things you've mentioned (except the not paying child support !). The kids should be seeing him as per the agreement. As Julie said, the size of the place doesn't matter. Let them see for themselves if he's true blue as a father or not and again, it's wayyyyy to early for that.

She also talked about how 1 parent "thinks" they aren't influencing their kids and really they are. My brother and his wife do this all the time - I can't believe the snide things they slide in and think they are above the other set of parent / stepparent. I stay out of it, but would like to think if I was in this situation, I would be above board on everything and try to consider my actions as if they were his. As in, would I want him doing this? Trying to explain better - as in, would you want him telling your kids they don't have to see you? I don't know the guy, but of course he's going to think you are influencing them, so don't do it period. Also it isn't a decision kids should make. You need to continue being the parent and them continue being the kids.

The girlfriend and money thing is going to be ongoing. I see and know people every day that make bad choices with their money. Your remedy is to pursue the child support because that is enforceable.

My thoughts in general.....

dl

Being 10 and 12 years old , I think its awful to expect them to spend every weekend cooped up in a tiny apartment especially if theres nothing there for them to do.Most kids want to run and play with their friends on the weekends.It must be awfully boring for them.Do they have any fun at all when they go over to dads for the weekend? I could understand them not wanting to go if they were utterly bored to death there.I think if they don't want to go ,dad should either make it more fun for them or not expect them to give up their play time every single weekend just to sit around and look at him and his new girlfriend.(I know they haven't met yet,but its only a matter of time).I really feel for your kids.I hope dad is truly taking into consideration what his kids need when he demands his visitation rights.

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Here are my objective opinions

1) ignore the stuff about the girlfriend -- don't let it make you crazy and don't let it turn you into the bad guy, don't let it influence how you deal with your ex it will show through to your kids no matter how much you think it won't -- but otoh don't let him get away with not paying child support

2) kids need time to adjust -- they should spend time with their father unless there is abuse the size of the apartment should not matter, no one says he's locking them in a 5x5 room all weekend -- in my honest opinon the way this whole paragraph comes across it's more like the kids are miserable, you're influencing them that it's rinky dink and you're happy they don't want to go there (you wanted honest)

3) I would hope that your ex plans on doing something with/for his son on his own for his birthday, but I don't think he is obligated to go to the party you are throwing for your son at your house -- get the child support thing worked out but otherwise how he spends his money should be of no concern to you

4) I know it's hard, but I'd just take it as a nice gesture -- some people reward for good grades, if this is something that you really feel will be detrimental to your childs upbringing you can say something to your ex, but odds are she'll just give it to him to give to them in the future or give it to them when she sees them -- you no longer have total control

First off Marilyn from just knowing you from here on the boards I firmly believe all will work out because your a strong powerful women and haven been through all you have been through I know things will all work out. While right now it seems like alot is going on you made the right decision and I totally believe you will continue to make the right decision. Now for the concerns you have first off I would never worry about your sons liking the new girlfriend and leaving your side your sons will always be there for you, your their mom and always will be, it was their dad who caused all the problems that resulted in the divorce not you at all. As far as the apartment is concerned that is minor as long as they are happy to see their dad and he also wants to see them the apartment is the least thing you should be worried about. As far as your ex being late with his money owed to you, that is important and again knowing the person you are I feel you will make sure he makes those payments. As a mother who has gone through so much you could never be enough emotional or overreact this is your life and your childs lifes that are effected. I wish you sincere luck and happiness and that all works out and keep us posted. Peace for now. Catherine

I know it's hard, but from your posts you seem to be a very strong, capable woman. Just hang in there and things will smooth out over time. And we're always here if you need to talk!

X moved out in early September 2009. He would intermittently have the boys over for a night. And that was fine. But, when it went to be every other weekend, it became a problem. And when the whole weekend was spent w/ the boys texting me about how miserable they were, I just couldn't force them anymore. I have tried to "talk up" their dad, and their dad's apt. I know they are 12 and 10. In my defense---I always texted them back that they needed to talk to their dad and let him know why they were unhappy. The final straw was when youngest texted me he was sick, and I texted back that he needed to tell his dad. He couldn't because dad was on the phone and yelled at him when he tried to get his attention (and X admitted to me...) Hell no, I don't want the kids every weekend! God help me, but I would like a little down time, a little time where I could do my own thing. I love my children, but sometimes I want to sit in my PJ all day and eat peanut butter w/ my finger! LOL


As far as the gifts/money---it wasn't so much that I was opposed to it, just the timing and would have liked to be informed of it beforehand.

As for the birthday party---I didn't care so much about the party, as much as X not doing ANYTHING for his oldest child. I would have been overjoyed, ecstatic, giddy even if he had said "hey, I've got to go out of town on your birthday, how about we (x and child) go to dinner this week to celebrate.?"

I really am trying not to be the bitter angry ex-wife. My desire was to try and be friends w/ X. I knew then and know now that I will have to put up w/ him at least another 8 years. If not friends at least cordial and civil adults.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

This is just my feelings on reading what you're saying. I can see why you feel the way you do!

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I would encourage both your Ex and the kids (in as positive of a way as you can) to spend hours together instead of days. A few hours of more frequent quality time, may be better for them all than two whole weekends a month. Try to sell your Ex on picking them up at least once a week for a few hours to actively spend time with them. Whether taking them out to do something or going back to his apt. for a game night or anything where he's involved with them. Maybe you can convince him that it will be easier on him (shorter time period, less frustration, less yelling) and that it will help build his relationship with his kids. If he can keep those visits short, fun and frequent they may start to see going with dad as a positive thing.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Very good idea. I like the idea of short visits in this situation.

I wouldn't worry about the girlfriend. YOU are their mom. Kids are very smart-they know who's in their corner and who isn't. As far as the birthday-that's between the child and the dad. If the dad's a jerk about that just let it go. If ds asks about it just say something like, it's too bad he's unable to see you on your birthday and don't make a big deal out of it. It's his son and he's responsible for the relationship, not you. I would think you would want to steer clear of any bad-mouthing, etc... Stay as neutral and positive as you can. That would be in the best interest of the kids.

DON"T let your ex push your buttons!!!

It sounds like you are definitely not over the bitterness, etc... Your last line said alot-you are likely to get upset at any little thing he does. Try very hard to just put him out of your head, what he does in his life, etc... unless it affects the kids. The sooner you let it go the better for everyone.

I learned a long time ago that in a divorce it's the other parents responsiblity to maintain and develop the relationship with the children. If he's an a&&hole the kids will figure that out for themselves. And if you stay out of it then the ex can never use any of your behavior to bad mouth the kids about you. And if he tries to he will only show his true character to the kids.

Enjoy YOUR relationship with the kids. Don't sweat his. He's responsible for his choices.

I woiuld take him to court on the child support.

I KNOW how hard it is. But it's really best to try not to bad mouth the ex. Just ignore all the crap. He's made his bed, let him lay in it! lol

Remember too the madder he makes you the more he "wins"! The more unaffected you are by it the less likely it will continue.

Keep in mind though even if you let the kids make the decision not to see him, you are in contempt in the eyes of the law... If the order says every other weekend then that is it until you go to the courts to change it...

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Be careful what you wish for.....

My husband and I are on the opposite side of the "you can choose if you want to see your dad". It has been horrible for us. She has said no to come over when we already drove over an hour to get her, her mom lets her choose. This has turned her into a child that gets to run the family. it is very sad and she has chosen not to come over to our house because it is boring because we always want to go and do things, but we don't have other kids for her to play with. She hasn't come over in over 3 months.

don't let your kids run the show. it might not be happy for you later.

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-Kristi

I don't see how a person can attain happiness by constantly forcing their kid to do something they don't want to do.I mean they are already forced to go to school, and other sport activities you might set them up with, let them have time to themselves.Its their life too.Myself, I could not be happy forcing my kid to constantly do activities that he didn't want to do.I went through the whole divorce, child visitation myself, and my kid litterally screamed when he had to go with dad.I'm just happy that his dad didn't force it on him afterwards and let my son come to terms with visitation when he was ready.It worked out better that way.Forcing your kids to visit you in my opinion is only going to make the kid resent you.

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Marilynk,

I think you're a great mom, and, no matter what, I'm sure you feel that the divorce was the best thing for you and the kids.

I see you trying to be sure not to fall into that bitter-looking-divorced-woman role. And I give you credit, because I see so many people who refuse to even check themselves on that.

Watch out for the issue of not making your kids spend weekends w/dad. Even if it's heart-breaking for you and them, pretend it isn't, and see to it that you're respecting the visitation plan. Otherwise, if your X senses that you're manipulating them, he WILL do his best to manipulate them in response.

If your kids don't like spending the time w/him, encourage them to speak up and ask their dad to do specific things with them. It sounds like your X may never have established good enough relationships w/them before this, so now's as good a time as any to help your kids learn to advocate for their needs to their dad (in a respectful way).

You got the divorce to improve your life, as well as your kids. See to it that you're not allowing yourself to brood about some of the junky stuff being pulled on his end. And then allow yourself to really start to live the way you envisioned you would!

Regarding the girlfriend thing, I wonder what you think of actually making her an ally. Not to kill her with kindness, but just establish that you know she's going to be involved in your sons' lives, and you want to work together with her so that she understands what your preferences are, as their mom. It may be that if you initiate talking with her, you'll have her respecting the important things you want for your sons even before she's met them. Why wait until you are having to react to things that you can already see will happen down the pike, here?

For example, my neighbor and her X have some communication issues. Because of that, the X and his new wife almost always work against her wishes. For instance, my neighbor had made it clear that she wanted to take her DD (8 yrs old) out for a special mother/daughter day to get her ears pierced. Instead, the X and new wife actually took my neighbor's daughter to do it "as a surprise!"

I just figure, if at all possible, 'you get more bees w/honey...'

As everyone else has attested here, you're a strong woman and mom. You'll do fine.

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

As an adult who was allowed to decide if I wanted to go see my dad or not, I think that was a bad idea. I'm sorry but at the age of 10-12 you really have no idea if you really "want" to go or not. It hurt my dad that we didn't go. But my mom never forced us. I will tell you it hurt the relationship with my dad horribly. There was a period we didn't talk at all. He was hurt and we thought it was "boring" at his house. I think it's not a big deal to make your kids go every other weekend. I still get upset at my mom that she didn't act like the adult and make us go. I lost out on a lot of time with my dad and his family because of it. I feel she didn't make us go, even though it was supposedly our choice, because she was sticking it to him. And my mom talked the same about his "dinky" house. He had a trailer but so what. So I disagree with the PP. I think it made me resent my mom much more then my dad. And I'm 37 and still upset that I lost that time. As a 12 yr old I should have never been allowed to make a decision like that. Sorry!!

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Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

Those are good points! They are still kids and that is quite a burden to place on a child.

All good and valid points....
I suggested to X tonite (he did show for about an hour for the party) that perhaps ONE night a weekend was a place to start. Suggested that perhaps that was all that ALL of them could handle of togetherness. I *think* I suggested it diplomatically, rationally and calmly. He *seemed* to agree and understand.
I want the kids to WANT to spend time w/ their father, just like I want him to WANT to be a daddy. I can't make him a "good" daddy-and maybe ONE night is all he can be a "good" daddy for. And, that would be better than NO daddy...

To further complicate an already tense situation--EX is being laid off. Next Friday is his last day w/ his employer. So, I'm worried about all that comes w/ that. It's been a rough couple of weeks at work....I really have been crabby/cranky. I know this. I am trying hard to squelch the urge to throttle a couple of people in my life! LOL

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Marilyn it is okay to be crabby and cranky at work you have alot of your mind right now and with emotions running high its so normal. Of course the best suituation would be that your ex and your sons can have a great relationship and for the sake of your sons I sincerely hope so. While parents divorce, children do not and as long as there is no abuse or violence while they are with their dad I would encourage them to see him however I would never force then, but talking to them more would be wonderful and I know you will make the right decisions. Sorry to hear about your ex losing his job you truly did not need anymore wood on the fire. I sincerely hope and pray all goes well again your one strong women and I feel it will be okay in the long run. Best wishes and prayers. Peace to you and your sons so glad you have them in your life. Peace. Catherine

I'm not good at going back and responding to each point, but I agree with putting the kids first, abiding by the written agreement, and encouraging a relationship if it's a healthy one or has the potential to be a healthy one with your encouragement.

Regardless of what he accused you of, I'd try to rise above it for the sake of your kids. You know you weren't harassing her, so I'd be open and honest with your ex, find out how he 'defines' harassment, and treat them like you would want them to treat you and another love interest.

I'd be careful not to (how can I explain this...) push your opinion of your ex, his girlfriend, and what his choices are (and how you feel about those choices) onto your children. Your kids are very impressionable, and because you have primary custody, their 'loyalty' will probably naturally fall in your direction. I'd try and be careful not to 'say' things like 'your son was devastated that you chose her over him on his birthday', if he was just mildly disappointed. Try to be objective, true to yourself and your core beliefs, and demonstrate that to your children. Voicing your opinion to impressionable children will often cause them to develop an opinion that mimics yours and is not their own, and could inadvertently sabotage their relationship with their father.

More importantly, I think it's important for your kids to understand that people make choices and have to live with those choices. Grownups make mistakes and have regrets. We don't stop learning once we become adults. But...they are loved and wanted and cherished. Keep reminding them of the list of people who love them and want them to succeed in life (and in their relationships) and that sometimes we learn what to do from other people, while other times we learn what NOT to do.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

I think approaching your ex with an attitude of calm concern over issues, will possibly halt any walls from going up and help the two of you stay on the same page in terms of what is best for your children.

If you pose yourself as someone easy to deal with, he may be more inclined to listen and consider your ideas/concerns and agree with you.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

I hope my step-daugheter feels the same way. She is 12 and she chooses not to come over for almost a year at a time. I hope later on down the line she will think like you do now.

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-Kristi

) X accused me of harassing his current girlfriend. I have not been. I don't have time, energy or inclination (and I certainly don't want him back!). Up until that point in time, x and I had been being very amicable about things. At the point when he accused me of that, I stopped being nice. I let him know that he was late on child support (as he has been from day one) and I was turning it over the state for collection. I advised him that he needed to get the remainder of his stuff out of my garage or I was selling it. I pretty much quit trying to "work" with him on this kind of stuff. Was that the wrong thing to do?
This should have been decided in the divorce papers... So much time to get things out.. Or it because yours, etc.
2) the kids have been miserable on the weekends w/ the father (they are 10 and 12). He lives in a rinky-dinky, tiny apartment and he's not exactly stellar "daddy" material anyway. So, I talked to the boys and told them that the choice was theres. They could see their dad anytime they wanted, however if they didn't want to spend weekends with him, I was not going to make them. They chose not to. X huffed and puffed and threatened to have the police come and force the children into his vehicle for his visitation. I reminded him that the parenting plan(that he signed/agreed to) set forth that overnight visits were at my discretion, and that I had primary custody. Should I force the kids to spend time w/ their father?
I truly think that this is not your decision to make. The courts could care less about him being not so stellar or having a crappy apt... They would care however that you are violating a court order by letting them stay home.. TRUST ME.. Been there done that. If they want to go or not, he has a legal piece of paper that says he has the right to them. And you have to follow them. I do not think you should let a child that age make an adutl decision.

3) And this is the biggie! Today is the oldest child's birthday. I am having his party tomorrow at my house. X informed me that he was going to be out of town for the birthday and the birthday party. (he's driving 4 hours to spend the weekend with his new girlfriend and her son!). Two things about this made me angry: #1--he can afford a road trip, but can't afford to pay child support?? #2--the child was devastated when his father told him that he wouldn't be in town, and wouldn't be putting in an appearance at the birthday party. Are my feelings of anger justified?
Why the heck would you want your ex at your house for a party?? Let him have his own party and you have your own... As far as him having a road trip, maybe she is paying. If you are that concerned about his finances then you need to take it to the judge.
4) X's new girlfriend (who the kids have not even met), sent the oldest $20 for making A/B honor roll, and sent the youngest some fart noise making trinket. First--I don't believe in paying kids for getting good grades. It's just not something I think is a good practice. Second--she hasn't even met them! Does it sound like she's trying to manipulate and/or influence their feelings by giving them stuff? Or am I just being overly sensitive?
You are overly sensitive...

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Have you called the polizia yet? If not you probably should, rapido.

Everything was decided in the divorce papers. But in the essence of trying to be "nice" and "accomodating" and work with him I allowed him to keep his stuff there. But, he got it out on Sunday. Under the watchful eye of local police officer. I did call and have the local PD do what is called a civil stand-by. That is a protection for myself (in case he decided to accuse me of something later on) as well as for him (in case I went off my nut and actually did do something to him!)

I am not in violation of any court order by allowing the children to NOT go to their father's home. I have primary and sole custody. Overnight visitation is at my discretion (so says the parenting plan/agreement that was approved and upheld by the family law judge. In this state there are 3 seperate papers: divorce decree, parenting plan and order of support). I can guarantee that there isn't a court in this state that would hold me in contempt based on the parenting plan, and X's deviant lifestyle. And there's no way in this city that local police would give me any grief if X showed up, the kids didn't go and X tried to force them. BUT...I'm constantly talking to the kids about starting out w/ one night a weekend, or maybe even one kid on each weekend night (I just thought of that one---that way the kids wouldn't bounce off each other and the time spent with their father could be "special") at least for the time being. Good Grief--I even suggested he take the kids to meet his girlfriend!

I didn't necessarily care whether he came to the party--I just wanted him to acknowledge his child's birthday in some way. If he had wanted to take him to dinner, or to a movie or whatever, I welcomed that. The child wanted him at the party. X did come, and stayed about an hour or so. Everything was fine.

I admit I was overly sensitive. It was just poor timing on X and his girlfriend's part I think. I'm sure she's a lovely woman--I have nothing against her at this time. I hope she has better luck with X than I did. She may very well have a better relationship with him since he is in treatment and on medication for his psych issues. I didn't have the luxury of him being on meds and getting treatment until the damage was already done.

Last week was a bad week over all.....on so many different fronts: My mom had surgery, one sister had surgery, the other sister found out she was going to have surgery, we lost a girl at work(she resigned), and I was trying to micromanage things w/ the X! My outlook is a little brighter and much better today. I have made the conscience decision to relax ( I'm a little high strung anyway!), I have made the conscience decision to try and be less sensitive about certain things. As far as the child support--I have submitted everything to the Child Support Enforcement Division. Now, he will have to pay them, and there will be record of when he is paying. If he wants the date that it is due changed, he can do the work for that as it is his responsibility.

I have a new "friend" that is really low key and laid back--I'm trying to learn from him!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Marilyn I am so sorry to hear the news about your mom and sisters and your friend sincere best healthy wishes and prayers for all. As I stated before you and your sons are the most important things right now and I am happy to know you have your children with you. Wish you the best of everything including your new relationship you deserve so much enjoy. Peace. Catherine

Marilyn, I know this isn't at all what you asked about, but I thought I'd throw it into the mix, anyway...

I know you're enjoying the dating scene again, and I certainly think you are entitled to do that... but I'd be slow to let your kids get emotionally invested in any of the guys you date. It sounds like the ex is a mess, and his girlfriend is a mess, and even if you're not sensing it in a big way, I would have to think that at their tender ages, they are 'processing' what 'stability' looks like and what it doesn't.

In a few short months, they've gone from having a dad around full time (not the best one, but a 'present' one) to not having him around the house at all to seeing him with another woman who is *not* their mother. I realize he's been a stray prior to this, but I assume it's a new thing for them to 'see' him with someone else.

Even if they seem cool with it all, they're still learning. Their brains are not fully developed and they are still developing a sense of right and wrong, and you're laying a foundation for what they perceive to be 'home base' in terms of relationship stability.

You're obviously the stable one who is there for them... so I don't know that it's best for their developing mindsets to also perceive you as going from guy to guy, kwim? If they like one, don't like the next one, feel like they should like one because you like him and they feel defensive of you because of your ex's behavior... and yet they really *aren't* as crazy about the guy as you are, etc... It just may put them in the middle of your relationships and feelings in a way that isn't the most healthy for them.

They grow up so, so, so fast, and it just seems like there'd be wisdom in giving them ample time to adjust to this new normal before throwing men you date into their world. KWIM?

actually, I've kind of backed off of the dating scene---I realized that 1) it was "fun" but it was time consuming, 2) of all the men I dated--only a couple were decent, nice and "good" guys 3) ummmm....I met one I'm kind of fond of and want to move slowly and cautiously this time! 4) I didn't want the boys to think I was just dating every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Slow, and cautious--that's where I am right now (I actually had a PI friend run a criminal background check on the one I'm fond of...)

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Very good points wowitsdark. It's best to keep your dating life separate from your "family" life with the kids unless/until it gets very, very serious. They just don't need to be meeting any extra people right now. They need stability.

LOL about the background check!

Now that my kids are older and I'm seeing how their classmates are turning out, it really has convicted me that it's risky to do things that can foster the perception that guyfriend/girlfriend hopping is normal/typical. Those children seem a little more 'desperate' to get involved with the opposite gender more deeply than their peers whose parents seem more about 'parenting' than 'hooking up'. It's not just a divorce thing that I seem to be seeing - it really is all the parental hooking up that seems to point to who will have more than their fair share of dating drama and early sexual encounters.

I really do think that was wise of you to back off there!

I agree with everything that MariahB wrote plus what others have wrtten about keeping adult dating relationships seperate from the children until they are long-term and committed.

No sense re-typing what they've said so well!

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

This whole thing has been a huge, and I do mean HUGE learning experience. I hope, and I think that to some extent I have grown as a person. I am trying to take these things and learn from my mistakes (and of course the mistakes other's have made that have adversely affected me).

I am actually much more at peace, but still struggle with some things. I find myself being resentful and bitter because X really has not taken any personal responsibilty for his behaviour--but I am trying to come to terms and acceptance that his behaviour is/was not my fault, and that his behaviour will not change until he does (yes, he is still engaging in some questionable behaviour according to mutual friends...). I actually feel a little sorry for any woman that goes into a relationship with him if she isn't aware of or accepting of his behaviour.
Some days I struggle more than others with wanting to be vindictive and destroy his credibility--but that is counterproductive. Some days I struggle with self-doubt regarding some of the choices I made (and some that I was forced to make...)
To this day X blames me for the divorce, because I actually went through w/ the threat. In cleaning out some stuff, I found a letter that I wrote him the first time I caught him cheating and lying. It was dated 12/2007. In it I told him I would divorce him if it ever happened again. It took two years of heart ache, tears and emotional distress before I finally got up the gumption to follow through....
Yes, I know I'm rambling! :-)
This is sort of therapy. I get it out without having to pay someone to listen! Sometimes, rambling helps me to come to grips with my anxiety, and sometimes it helps me to see that what I WANT to do is really, really bad--and I realize what I NEED to do...

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Just one question.. IF the child dont want to spend time with his dad, why does it bother him that he aint coming to the party??? I would think he wouldnt want his dad there.
bear with me here on this.. I have never dealt with children and divorce..

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It's my oldest who is my most sensitive child. I think the problem lies in that X just isn't engaged w/ the kids. He doesn't pay a lot of attention to them when they are there, and it hurt the kid deeply for his father to blow off his birthday for some woman (not their mom) who the kids haven't even met. I think that they, especially the oldest feels cast aside by their father.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

who told them about there dad going to see her??

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-Kristi

Speaking generally and not necessarily at mk....although she has said both she and her ex are already dating.

Here lies a core part of adults who divorce. Instead of putting their children first, they are too busy trying to hook up. They forget they just came from a disaster and think now the world will glow with someone else. And, along with the world glowing, that their kids will meld into a blended, happy, new family.

Reality is already telling about this behaviour as it is reflected in our society. A failed marriage is one thing, failing your children is quite another.

dl

he did....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I'm late to this party and I have to admit I haven't read every single post, but yes the kids need to spend time with their father. How about one weekend day two or three times a month and perhaps an occasional quick after school dinner. Do your kids have friends that they could take to his house to play with? Suggest that, for instance he is going to have them on Sat. from noon until 6, that he should plan an activity like a movie or ball game for that time period. If he doesn't have an activity planned then the kids will come with their friends instead. The thought of four boys might convince him to plan more things for them to do and if it doesn't, at least the kids will have someone to hang out with. Shorter more frequent visits, as suggested before sound a lot easier for everyone to deal with. A friend of my grandson's parents recently divorced. Dad is living in a grungy little house not too far from here and often my grandson is there when Dad is having his visitation to give his friend someone to play with. It allows Dad to see his boy, but not to have to constantly entertain him. I also like the idea of splitting the visits between the boys, evenly of course. That way each boy gets individual attention from each parent for a short time. That can be great bonding time for each of you. This might work well on the school night visits.

Someone in this equation has to be the adult. I think you have been elected. You will be involved with him, to some extent, until the day one of you dies or goes into witness protection. Once your boys get married and have kids, the holidays and birthdays and other special events, including their baseball and soccer games are going to communal. So you need to try and make some sort of peace with him and with this process.

If you want alone time, then tough. That just doesn't always happen when you have kids. Enjoy those minutes in the bathroom and car and use them to unwind. Set aside a half hour every night possible as reading time. It's amazing how nice that can be. I have started doing that with my grandson who does not like to read. So whenever I have him, one of the last things we do at night is turn off all games, tv's, radios, etc. and we both sit and read for 30 minutes. He reads what he wants and I read what I want. It's quiet time, soothing, relaxing and yet we are both in the same room. It's also a nice transition to going to bed. If he hasn't finished whatever it it, he can take it to bed and finish it there if he wants.

In my opinion, you have to let it go. I went through a similar situation and I've struggled with it off and on(struggled horribly in the beginning). The only way I was able to "get over it" was just to realize that I had to worry about me and my child and do the best I could each and every day. I couldn't spend any energy worrying about or thinking about my ex. He was going to do what he was going to do, spend the time with my son in a way I felt was best or not, date who he wanted, etc. None of that was my concern any more - even the part about my child. Typically, when they are with the other parent, as long as they are not in danger, they can do whatever that person feels best. Feeding my 2 year old only cheerios for the whole weekend? GREAT! Good parenting skills. Could I do anything about that? Nope. Interestingly enough, my ex has really made a turn-around. When I was there to run interference and do everything for our son, he was a crappy dad. When it was on him, he finally turned around. He is now a great dad. I don't always agree with what he does or the way he acts (or his wife's actions), but that doesn't mean he lacks the right to have some say in the way his child is raised. I chose/allowed him to be the dad so some of that is on me! Hopefully, given the chance, your ex will figure it out. I hope so for your kids' sake.

Oh, 3 years after we split up, ex apologized for his behavior while we were together. He said he realized how horrible he had been to me and hoped I could forgive him. It can happen. Good luck, Marilyn!

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Kim