...sign the Health Care Reform Bill before the Senate approves the revisions made by the House?

This is in the Washington Post today ..

__________________
Mary

Apparently he can do whatever he wants.

Interesting tidbit of info......

March 23rd 1933---Hitler becomes Dictator of Germany. Funny,Obama is signing the health care bill today. Coincidence?

__________________

Friends are like butt cheeks.
Crap might separate them,
But they always come back together.

If you want to see modern day Nazis in action, just take a look at the teabaggers.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

It's a joke, isn't it?

All the wrangling that took place that was supposedly to get the stragglers in the house to sign on and vote yes was just a big smoke screen. Here is how it works:

Senate passes their version of the bill.

It goes back to the House for them to either vote in or out.

House members say, "We are not totally in love with your bill, Senate." Pelosi negotiates this, that, and the other thing as payoff in order to get various representatives to vote "yes". Lots of add-ons are sort of attached to the Senate bill.

The vote takes place, and here is essentially what that vote meant:

1) Both the House and the Senate have had a majority vote on the 'base bill' that the Senate sent to the house, making that ready for Obama's John Hancock.

2) All those changes that the Reps held out for are NOT eligible to be signed off on by the president, because the Senate has not approved them.

The Senate can now take months or years to get around to voting on all those little add-ons that the Reps acted like were critical in order for them to give their support. Once the Senate deals with them, they are either 'in' or 'out'.

My guess is that the Senate will either ignore most of them OR will vote most of them down, and then everyone will just go, "Oh, well."

Actually, no. That's not how it will go down.

They'll end up looking like fools and losing in November.

My understanding is, for instance, that Stupak (sp?) finally said, "Okay! I'm in!" once the language saying that only non-elective abortions would be covered was included in the changes.

The reality is that that change will ONLY become a reality if the SENATE also agrees to it, and they likely will NOT agree to it.

That means all his hand-wringing was a boatload of el-crapola and he knew it.

To offer up an analogy...

You are Michael Scott, and you are a co-manager at Dunder-Mifflin Paper Company. Jim Halpert is your co-manager.

Corporate is sending a boatload of sales leads to your sales staff. They agree on how to divide up the leads. The accounting department says they will refuse to process any sales made to those leads unless they get a cut of the commissions.

Sales writes up an agreement as to how it will be handled, and it states that sales will provide donuts to accounting every Thursday. Sales votes on the agreement and it passes and it is sent to Accounting for their approval.

You, Michael Scott, know that Accounting would like to see more in that agreement than just donuts, so you tell Accounting you will add 2% of commissions to the agreement, as well as Krispy Kreme coffee with assorted creamers. You, Micheal Scott, promise that those things WILL be included if they will vote "YES" to Sales' agreement.

So...Accounting adds on their wishes, and then votes YES.

At that point, CEO Jo Bennett says, "We have a deal! You both voted YES to Sales' agreement, and I am going to make it company policy RIGHT NOW!"

Accounting says, "Um, yeah, and we get special coffee and donuts and a commission!"

CEO and co-manager Jim Halpbert say, "Not so fast, Michael. Sales has to approve those changes you made. We're going to talk about them tomorrow... or next week... or next year. The only thing that counts now is that everybody agreed to donuts on Tuesday."

So now when Kevin goes home to explain to his mom that he is not necessarily, in fact, going to be bringing in more money to pay for the new apartment they were going to move into, Kevin is going to be getting a lashing and quite likely be kicked out entirely.

Clear as mud?

First of all I want to say I've missed you wowitsdark! I love how you explain things. The fact is, not many understand this. It's all so disgusting and Stupak has never been my favorite, but now, well, you can imagine how I feel. Does he realize how silly he looks?

Btw...Pelosi's grin is starting to irritate me.

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Melissa

She's a scary looking one isn't she, Melissa?



Barak used to say sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.

Prepare to watch The Greatest Disinfection we've seen happen in years this November. I think once people understand that there was NO point whatsoever to all that drug-out process the House put everyone through because NONE of their additions will matter unless the Senate approves them later... well... it will be bad news.

The House simply did not have the authority to enact those additions single-handedly and there is nothing binding the Senate to accepting them, or oven binding Obama to be an advocate for them.

Where is the money to pay for this going to come from? From us the taxpayers. It doesn't matter if you already pay for insurance or get it as part of your earnings from work. You will still have to pay for everyone else's policies.
It doesn't matter that the majority of the population is against this bill we are getting it shoved down our throats I guess because we're too stupid to know what's good for us. It doesn't matter what your beliefs are or if you agree you'll be paying for other peoples' care.

I don't see how people can be FORCED to carry insurance. It's like forcing everyone to buy a car or a house or forcing everyone to eat a salad a day. I don't see how it will stand up to constitutional arguments.

It seems like it was a matter of our dear President passing it simply because he wants to impose his will on us. Voting for him was the worst mistake I've ever made in my life and I've made quite a few mistakes.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

It's easy, Anna!

This is a job creation bill, really.

The IRS is going to employ 70,000 additional workers to keep track of whether you have insurance or not, and fine you a mere $2,500 if you don't purchase a policy.

Everybody wins! Our government gets to collect a bit of a 'sin tax' on those bad people who don't buy a policy, 70,000 jobs have been created...

What a deal!!!!!

I'd love to slap that grin off her mug any day. Did you see the Sunday funnies? Can't remember who it was that said it (Jon Stewart maybe?) but they said that Nancy called her plastic surgeon to see if her smile would be ready for Sunday. Love it....hate her, but love the joke.

__________________

Friends are like butt cheeks.
Crap might separate them,
But they always come back together.

Yeah, seeing her grin makes me want to go drink some tea...

Winter is just leaving and I definately don't want winter back, but I cannot wait for NOVEMBER! Like I said before, I typically vote for whoever would be the best person. This November it's a straight party ticket all the way down the ballot! I'm voting them all out.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Ben Nelson is the only Democrat I ever voted for.

Won't be making that mistake again...

I voted for Kathleen Sebelius when she was Governor of Kansas. She was decent at that job - not sure what happened between then and now! I've already picked out who will get my Repulican vote for the next KS Governor!

Lisa

__________________
"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Love the posts!
I'm also very concerned about how this is all going to be paid for.....we are now officially one big step closer to socialism!
I thought libs didn't want the government telling them what to do...choice, choice, choice! How does mandating that everyone have or buy insurance and if not a fine will be imposed fit into their whole "choice" mantra? Are they that blind?

Yep.

You now have no choice about your own body.

You have to make it work to earn health care OR to earn enough to pay your $2,500 fine.

Actually, they significantly lowered and delayed that fine at the last minute.

Timeline: How health care reform will affect you - CNN.com

2014

• Citizens will be required to have acceptable coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, $695 (or up to 2.5 percent of income) in 2016. Families will pay half the amount for children, up to a cap of $2,250 per family. After 2016, penalties are indexed to Consumer Price Index.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Is there anyone here that can defend and or explain the actions of our Congress ? Is it now the way it appears? And if it is the way it appears, do the ends justify the means?

We needed healthcare reform, but at what cost??

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Melissa

How so? Details please.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

How does this impact your choices on your own body?

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

That's what I'd like to know.

__________________
Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

I'm pretty sure that if the House had done anything illegal in passing the Health Care Bill it would have been or will be challenged by those against it. Same for it's passage through the Senate.

At my house we'll be voting in November for our Congressman who voted for the bill and against our Senator who voted no. My family is blessed to have excellent health coverage but know we are only steps away from the possibility of losing everything if we lose coverage and have the extreme bad luck of a family member being in an accident or developing a serious health condition.

I simply don't understand the anger and angst against a bill that will allow other families the peace of mind my family enjoys.

Peace of mind at what cost??

__________________
Melissa

Cost?

Well, those 70,000 new employees will be government employees, and that means they will cost more to employ per individual than private sector employees.

I'm sure it will cost in many other ways, as well. Here is one example of a buyout we've apparently already committed to.

Alpena County Regional Airport, mentioned in the above post is local to me. I don't know anyone who can afford to fly out of there. I believe it serves private planes as well, I'm sure it does. I am curious what the grant was for, specifically.

The other two I'm not familiar with. What is the point? I'm sure Alpena only employs a few people, so it's not for jobs!!

__________________
Melissa

"Will Stupak come clean about this apparent backroom deal for his vote?"

The FAA last week put out a tally of hundreds of grant awards made between Oct. 1, 2009, and March 15 of this year worth a total of $531 million. It included the three grants in Stupak’s district — meaning they were made at least four days before Stupak’s office put out a release announcing them on March 19 and at least six days before Stupak’s vote on health care reform Sunday.

A grant even went to an airport in the home district of House Minority Leader John Boehner — an Ohio Republican who spoke passionately against the legislation Sunday night. Darke County Airport got $108,000 to rehabilitate a runway.

Darke County Airport has about 30 aircraft based there — the vast majority single engine — and hosts about 25 flights a day, according to AirNav.com, an information Web site for pilots.

Did 'backroom deal' sway Stupak? He blasts GOP claim | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

It doesn't impact your choices about your body. Some folks like to throw out false claims and hope that others will believe them.

Same goes for the socialism claim.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Yah I know. LOL! I was agreeing with you. I saw nothing that made me think I was losing any of my choices for healthcare. I figure no matter what I have the say in my health care options and choices for my body.

__________________
Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

On a happy note, it does mean the Duggars can have generation after generation with many many many children and never have to pay a single doctor bill.

I am sure all the J's are grateful to the liberals who will now get to help financially support their choice to procreate to infinity and beyond! :-)

Wow, you're really grasping at straws now.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Gee, I'm glad my computer doesn't have a "Spit O Tron" installed. It would be very wet around here.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I am very happy it was passed, I will not go on and on with this topic because it will do me no good, but personally I feel this health care reform that was passed will help so many people. The other issue I want President Obama to succeed in is bringing our troops home safely and soon however I know its not going to be easy, I hate this war and want it over. Peace. Catherine

wowitsdark...that was very funny. I suppose it will help the Duggars! See, there's an upside to everything.

Catherine, sometimes I wish I could live in your world......

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Melissa

No surprise there. You want everyone to pay for your health care. Government Health care is not a good thing.

__________________
SAHM of Bailey 12, Tyler 10 , Emily Ann 6, and Ryan Matthew 4 yrs old.

We have choices in health care options NOW. I am insured through my job which I took on the condition that I would be insured. There are also private major medical policies. And free clinics, etc.... How the heck are we going to pay for this? Will you please answer that for me??? You really think that if someone doesn't have insurance they are actually going to pay the fine? And then what happens? How is that going to be enforced? Also what do you do to the people who pay the fine, get a catastrophic illness and buy an insurance plan on the spot since there is that new clause about pre-existing conditions now? Insurance companies can't stay afloat in those types of circumstances.
This health care plan was put together too quickly and pushed through for politcal reasons. I think there could have been some national plan that people could buy into on a sliding scale to help the uninsured. We don't need this huge financial mess they've just created. I swear someone random Joe Schmoetreet could figure this out better.
A sad day for America.....again........

To Aryia first off , my husband and his dad have a very very successful business that they have worked their butts off to get where they are, we all as a family business pay for our own medical insurance and perhaps just perhaps someone wants to help then okay. We should as a nation help those who cannot afford health care. Personally speaking I am lucky I have not had to worry, but what about all those millions of Americans who do. Second to Momragum why would you make a comment like that you would love to live in my world, there are others here on the forum and who are glad this bill was passed, why no comments to them hon???. Some things never ever change. Again as before where are all the concerns for the 12 trillion dollars that have been spent on a war which never should have started???. End of story I am happy and I have that right to be happy. Peace. Catherine

Are you KIDDING me? You can't see how this is socialism?

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Here are just few of the details you're asking for:

Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
A health care advisory committee will be established with the intent of
defining “the essential benefits package … including categories of covered treatments,
items and services within benefit classes, and cost-sharing.” This new bureaucracy is
essential if politicians want to impose a mandate Americans to get coverage. Bureaucrats
will then decide what qualifies as acceptable coverage to meet that mandate.

Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
The section is entitled “Extension of Authority of Special Needs Plans to
Restrict Enrollment.” The section also requires a study into special needs treatment.

(Page 50/section 152 and Page 272. section 1145) Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient’s age.

(Page 425, line 4-12 and Page 429, line 13-25) Government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an “end-of-life planning” seminar every five years. (Death counseling.) The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

And these are just scary details:
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual
bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
The bill allows Health and Human Services to “enable electronic funds
transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment
and remittance.”

Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have
access to ALL American financial and personal records.
With regards to determining government-determined “affordability
credit,” the Health Choice Administration is empowered to gain access to tax return
information or other such information that may be required to determine eligibility.

Page 167: individual who doesn’t have acceptable healthcare (according to the
government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
The bill states “any individual who does not meet the requirements of [the
government program] is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent … of the taxpayer’s
modified adjusted gross income.”

Page 298: If a Doctors treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a
readmission, that Doctor will be penalized by the government.
This is an extension of the above provision that relates to hospitals, only
this time, applying it to physicians. Payment reduction will occur if a physician “sees an
individual within the first week after discharge from a hospital or critical access
hospital.” (God help you if you have some kind of a relapse after a surgery, baby, etc and need to go back into the hospital!)

(Page 65/section 164) It is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress. The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now – ACORN). OH ... MY... GOSH!

~~~

Google HB3200 and the page you are interested in for more info.

Hope this helps with the details you were asking for.

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Mary

First of all...don't call me hon, it's very condescending. Second of all...what never changes???

We weren't talking about the war, but health care.

You were the one on the post defending the bill...not all the others that are out there. Where are they?? I think they are few and far between.

What I meant by I sometimes wish I could live in your world is that I feel you have a very simplistic view of some things. A Pollyanna kind of outlook. Of course, I didn't really mean it, there was a bit of sarcasm.


So, go on being happy, you absolutely do have that right. I have the right to not be happy. I think Obama could blow up a building in NYC himself and you still wouldn't admit that maybe he isn't the best president ever.....

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Melissa

If it's such a wonderful damn plan then why does it not go into effect for four more years? Why doesn't it go into effect tomorrow?

And making a health plan is one thing but FORCING people to buy insurance is another thing altogether what do people skimp on now? Food? Where will they get the extra money? That's why I haven't had insurance when I've had jobs that did not provide it because of money not because I don't think it's important.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Honestly momragum it bothers you that much that I call you hon??? seriously, I mean seriously with all our problems calling someone hon bothers You ???, shaking my head. Again I am not the only one here who is happy this bill was passed there are literally now millions of Americans who will benefit from this Health Care Reform Bill. Second I mentioned the war and the money because so many people here are so worried about the money, but still seem to forget all that 8 trillion dollars that have gone down the drain. As far as me admitting Obama is the best president I never ever said that and if I did I ask you to find prove in fact while I am happy this bill passed, I do not trust anyone nor Democrat or Republican or anywhere in between in the end they are all crooks in some way or another after all they are politicans right????. The best president is dead and that was Lincoln . Peace. Catherine

They ARE all crooks that's the only way you can get in. Anyone who would want to change things really for the better of the American working people is either kept out or thrown out.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Um, yes, it does bother me to be called "hon", "sweetie" "darlin'". Like I said, and I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way, I find it condescending. And I don't care what you think about me feeling that way, sweetie. Shake away hon.


Still...not many others defending this horrendous monstrosity of a bill.

The war has been debated over and over, it has nothing to do with this discussion...well I guess in your mind it does, so go ahead and keep bringing it up, I'll just ignore it. Oh, wait a minute, they both cost money. Money is the least of my issues with the hc bill.

The "Obama is the best president ever" comment was exaggeration. My apologies, I'll try to keep it simple.

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Melissa

Oh, Lucy Lucy Lucy.

This is not about helping those who cannot afford health care.

I have a number of friends who have made the choice NOT to carry health insurance. Could they have afforded it? Probably, if they had scraped each month. They are young and are savers and made the informed decision to wait to purchase it later (or to find employment at a place that offered it as a benefit).

You have just taken that right away from them. They now must be fined by the IRS for living out their choice.

This bill goes much, much, much further than just giving poor people health care.

It provides for federal funding for abortions. That's right. While Nancy Pelosi cackles, I now get to work to earn money to pay for the abortions of all those liberal babies you folks don't want to have.

The only solace I take in this is that now the Duggars can pop out as many Republican babies free of charge as time will allow, and before long there will be more conservatives than liberals since the liberals are busy aborting their children before they see the light of day.

Oh, wait. Nevermind. The Duggars didn't take public assistance before, and they probably don't now, either.

So since the Scientologists and Amish are exempt does that mean all religions that are against abortion will be exempt too?

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Hey now that's a good angle!!!!

Yep, let's make sure we have a legal "choice" to kill our unborn children but let's not give us a "choice" on health care. In fact let's fine people who don't want to have it! WTF?????

Not that I know of.

I would like to think that if ANYONE had a religious objection to being forced to either get coverage or be fined that they could opt out.

Like it or not, the founders were very, very, very adamant about making sure that any citizen of the United States got to freely exercise his or her religion without constraint. They believed that right was at the very core of what constituted 'freedom'. They said that the FEDERAL government (not states - just feds) could not establish a religion and force people or states to accept it, and that the feds could not prohibit the free exercise thereof.

Like it or not, agree with it or not, it's part of our most central document.

There are a number of individuals - and I know a few of them personally - who have never held traditional medical insurance as a matter of religious conscience. They attend the same church I do, and as a rule our church is not against insurance, but several personally came to the conclusion that there were faith-based reasons that they did not want to be tied to the insurance industry.

So what did they do? They kept money set aside to pay for most of their medical costs, and they joined groups like Medi-Share. Medi-share is NOT insurance. From their website:

People who have lived by this mantra have, from everything I have ever read, been very true to their ethical and religious compasses and not headed for Uncle Sam looking for handouts after deciding to drop out of Medi-Share out of the blue. It's a religious conviction that sent them to explore an option like that and to then sign on.

And our constitution demands that citizens not be prohibited from that free exercise of their religion.

And yet, this bill is going to FINE them if they continue to use a program like Medi-Share. In essence, Obama and his cronies probably just put a faith-based agency that was not a drain on society out of business.

It's shameful, really.

The effects of this hideous bill are far reaching and devastating on so many levels.

Oh for a Pollyanna attitude...."But people will be helped! What a wonderful thing Obama and the wonderful Congress has done for us lowly serfs"

gag

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Melissa

While we are gabbing about how crazy this bill is...

TWENTY-SIX????

Adult children are now eligible to be on their parent's policies until the age of TWENTY-SIX!?!?!

I got married after I graduated from college.

We waited five years to have a baby.

That baby was born when I was twenty-six and had held down a full-time job and been out of my parent's home for YEARS....

And yet under today's laws, THEY COULD STILL HAVE HAD ME ON THEIR FAMILY INSURANCE POLICY!

That is ridiculous. I was an ADULT. To think that FAMILY policies are not now going to cost more money now that people's ADULT children can be on the policies... it just makes me shake my head.

By the way... not that I have ever tanned in a tanning bed myself, but I think it is ludicrous that beginning tomorrow morning, people who own such businesses suddenly must collect a 10% TAX and turn it over to the government.

Hmmm.... maybe the tanning bed owners need to start a UNION since they get preferential treatment!

My husband's employer pays about $10K - $12K towards our insurance every year, and I am grateful for that.

Next year, my husband's taxable income will rise by that amount because now we will be taxed on that benefit. Did my husband get a $12K raise? No he did not. But will we owe $3K more in TAXES under the Obama plan that is going to save us all that money?

You bet your life we will owe those taxes.

My brother-in-law, who is a Union member, has a policy that costs his employer about $25K/year. Where MY family has an $800/pp deductible, HIS family has a $100/pp deductible. His eyecare and dental care is fully covered, as is that of his wife and two children. They may have a piddly $5 co-pay or some ridiculously low amount like that.

Will my brother-in-law suddenly show that he is making $25K more when benefits are taxed under the Obama plan? Heck no! Of course with his union job he makes about 3 - 4X MORE than my husband and could probably afford a hit to his income more than we could, but gosh, that $25K would just be too big an artificial 'raise' to report on his W-2. We wouldn't want him to pay taxes on ANY of that, because, after all, he is union and people with cadillac plans need to be exempt.

How fair is that? People with the most beneficial and most expensive policies will not have their employer-provided premiums taxed because they are UNION members - UNIONS are of course in the tank for the liberals.

And people working regular jobs with only PARTIAL benefits will have all of the premiums their employer covers taxed as regular income.

I would really like some wise liberal <cough cough> to explain with a straight face what is fair about that and how it helps those who earn 'less'. To me, that is a huge payoff to those who already have MORE, simply because they are blue state citizens.

Wow so much misinformation in this thread...watch Fox News much?

I'm not going to waste my time debunking every falsehood (and there are many!) in this thread but I do think before you hit the keyboard you should do a little research. Here's a starting point for you uninformed righties....

Catholic nuns urge passage of Obama's health bill
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR (AP) – 6 days ago

WASHINGTON — Catholic nuns are urging Congress to pass President Barack Obama's health care plan, in an unusual public break with bishops who say it would subsidize abortion.

Some 60 leaders of religious orders representing 59,000 Catholic nuns Wednesday sent lawmakers a letter urging them to pass the Senate health care bill. It contains restrictions on abortion funding that the bishops say don't go far enough.

The letter says that "despite false claims to the contrary, the Senate bill will not provide taxpayer funding for elective abortions." The letter says the legislation also will help support pregnant women and "this is the real pro-life stance."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Tk8ZQD9EGE7JO0

WASHINGTON — A group representing Catholic hospitals Saturday rallied behind President Barack Obama's health care bill ahead of a House vote in which anti-abortion lawmakers could play a decisive role.

The chief executive of the Catholic Health Association, Carol Keehan, wrote on the group's Web site that although the legislation isn't perfect, it represents a "major first step" toward covering all Americans and would make "great improvements" for millions of people. The more than 600 Catholic hospitals across the country do not provide abortions as a matter of conscience.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...OdinQD9EDUFGG0

Back at cha for checking facts........those Catholic nuns DO NOT represent the majority of nuns. I just heard that on Catholic Radio today and I do trust Catholic Radio. Yes, some nuns are pro-choice which is close to heresy. Just remember Pelosi thinks she's Catholic when she really should be excommunicated for her actions and for taking the Holy Eucharist. She's on a fast track to a very eternally hot situation if she doesn't repent and change her ways. That's not "judgmental" either, it's true.

What fact did I state that was wrong? Or are you just raving?