In a previous post, a moderator posted a number of false statements regarding the health care bill and it's impact on "our bodies." It was taken from a blog, which most of us know are not reliable sources.

Here are the facts for those who prefer facts:

Twenty-six Lies About H.R. 3200 | FactCheck.org

Oh, and no matter how many times you say it, it isn't a socialist. Saying it is doesn't make it so.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Socialism is a system where people spread benefits of a society around so that everyone, whether they work or not, whether they contribute or not, a "piece of the pie" so to speak. And it is paid for by those who DO work hard.

This health care bill is giving everyone health insurance whether they work, whether they are lazy or not and whether they take the steps to keep themselves in good health or not. It is being subsidized by those of us who work hard and end up paying taxes. That's a little piece of socialism.

Even Al Sharpton, one of the biggest liberals around says that everyone who voted for Obama was voting for socialism. That's a surprise to people like me who were assured by Obama during the campaign that he had no intention of doing anything to bring the US to socialism
Listen to it with your own ears coming from his own mouth.

YouTube - Al Sharpton admits Obama = Socialism

And AGAIN I ask: if this health care plan is so wonderful why does it not go into effect until Obama is out of office? Why not tomorrow?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

But it is socialism!! Listen, as I have said in the past, you can find websites on anything you want. I can post pages and pages of sites to go look at and what is in the health care bill that contradict what you are saying. My brother in law actually read through the bill. He had to skim because there was so much. I personally think a lot of you are in for a big shock!!!

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Check out my homepage http://julie.mycoupons.com/

That's not the definition of socialism.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

This is socialism, you are correct wise wise moderator. Liberals just to do nothing but attack us traditional hard working people. I do what I have to do to support myself, including selling on E-bay. It may not be perfect but I manage to get buy WITHOUT socialism and handouts.

From Wikipedia
Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

Allocation of resources translates to benefits passed out.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

First of all - why do you state a "moderator posted" ? That is so chauvinist. Just because I volunteer to moderate does not mean my comments/posts carry any more weight than anyone else.

Secondly - I did not get my facts from a "Blog" -- Here is where I got my info Here and Here and Here and Here (I have several other HB3200 sites bookmarked, but you get the idea)

Just because you got your facts from factcheck - does not make them correct. Why don't you Google "Factcheck.org reliability" or "Factcheck.org biased" The fact is some people think they lean left while others think they lean right.

The point is people need to get their info from several different sources and then determine what they believe to be accurate. And I believe we are getting screwed.

What it comes down to is the interpretation of the legal writing.

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Mary

Here's the thing.....Is it really possible for anyone to truly understand this bill? I doubt it. I think the confusion is written in deliberately. Simple is better, but not when it comes to the government. Keep 'em confused......

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Melissa

First, you need to look up the definition of chauvinist.

Second, all the sites you reference are truly right-wing biased. I used fact check as a reference because I thought most people regarded it as fairly balanced. I guess not. However, I read the sections of bill that your links reference. Did you? If not, I recommend you and others take a look and decide for yourselves.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Government won't be passing out benefits, your medical insurance will.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Since when is any legal document simple? Show me a bill that is simple.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Via government mandates....

And in a nutshell THAT is what's wrong with the government. Bills should be simple enough that the average Joe can understand it. I think if that were the case the libs would be just as angry with the bill. (That might be putting too much intelligence on the libs, lol, lol, lol)

I don't know about bills being simple, but A LOT of legal documents are written pretty simply. Divorce documents, legal pleadings, arrest warrants, affadavits...I've seen all of those written in clear, concise English that just about anyone can understand.

It can be done, if the people involved want it to be done. Vague and ambiguous(sp) legal documents leave a lot of room for wiggling, backtracking and loopholes.

I'm all for affordable healthcare for all. I just don't think I should have to pay for others, and I don't think I should be penalized because I work and pay my own way.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

The place you got your information is a conservative lobbying group. They aren't known for accuracy. They have run some pretty effective smear campaigns.

FACT CHECK: Spinning the new health care law - Yahoo! News

I also read an article this morning in Business Week which said, relax. It's not so bad. But, I can't find my way back.

Everyone will be required to purchase health insurance. If you want to opt out of coverage, you pay a $95.00 fee. If you can't afford it, your premiums are subsidized.

Government mandates of what? Please provide details.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

That's why bills are complicated.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged.
- Merriam Webster

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Mary

So what does that have to do with me mentioning that a moderator posted the original set of statements?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

so are you saying they are intentionally complicated to allow for lots of backtracking, loopholes and wiggle room?

Are you saying they are complicated because they contain so much language to prevent backtracking, loopholes and wiggle room?

If it's the latter: I disagree. I don't think they have to be complicated to cut out the crap.

You want vague and ambiguous---google "castle doctrine" "montana" "walmart" together. It might surprise you....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

The government is mandating, for one thing, that everyone must have health insurance. The government is attaching all kinds of "must dos" to the bill. If you "must do" it then it's a mandate.
Simply put.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

The latter. I guess we disagree.

I tried googling your terms, but just came up with a report about a WalMart employee shooting someone and getting off the hook because, according to the article, defending yourself with a gun is legal in Montana. I tried to find the content of the castle doctrine, but I admit I didn't try too hard and I couldn't find it.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

That doesn't fit the definition of socialism. Simply put.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Healthcare Intervention: The Bigger Picture - Doug French - Mises Institute (interesting article)

"In other words, it has taken more than 100 years for the push toward total control to get this far. And consider that even now, even under Obamacare, nothing like total socialism in medical services is really being considered an option. What is really happening are continuing efforts to patch up a failed system that has been cobbled together for more than a century."

...."The current system cries out for fixing. And how does the state propose to fix it? Never through more freedom, never by rolling back the real problem. Instead, it proposes more power. This has been the systematic trajectory during every presidential administration for many decades."



Economic reality is going to be very harsh.

simply put, the "Castle Doctrine" was meant for homeowners to protect themselves by any means necessary if they were attacked in their home.
The case you saw where one Walmart employee shot someone: If you had dug deeper, you would have found that one Walmart employee brought his gun to work, got into a verbal altercation w/ another employee---and then shot the other employee in the head all in the loading area of the store. The shooter was not arrested, nor were any charges filed against him because the Yellowstone Co. DA cited the "Castle Doctrine" as allowing a person to use any means necessary to protect themselves if they feared for their life--any place, any time.

And because the Castle Doctrine is indeed written the way it is--a man who took a gun to work and shot a co-worker (didn't kill him thank God) over a silly argument over bathroom breaks, will not have to face any legal ramifications. What person fears for their life at work? And if you do, aren't there other means to handle it than bringing a gun to work? I'm sure that some are going to argue "well, there must have been something going on" or "there had to be exstinuating circumstances"...no, not really--the shooter went to work and picked a fight, then pulled his gun and shot a man with no remorse. And had it been a different caliber of gun, would have committed murder.

Legal documents do NOT have to be written as vague or ambiguous to be effective. When they are written that way? People start abusing the law/legal document. Just because the intent is good, doesn't mean the practicality of it is good.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Our govt just handed the insurance companies millions of new customers, customers who will have no choice BUT to pay. No wonder their stocks went up today.

This dude is a blogger. Where are the studies to back up his thesis?

This is from the mises org website.
"This dude" "Douglas French is president of the Mises Institute and author of Early Speculative Bubbles & Increases in the Money Supply. He received his masters degree in economics from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, under Murray Rothbard with Professor Hans-Hermann Hoppe serving on his thesis committee. "

The site is one for valuable resources for the studies of Austrian School of economics.

http://mises.org/about/3467#what
"What is the Mises Institute?

The Mises Institute is a research center, founded as a 501(c)(3) organization in 1982, that is dedicated to supporting the intellectual tradition, particularly in economic and political theory, represented by Ludwig von Mises (1881-1973), who taught in Vienna, Geneva, and New York. The Mises Institute, founded with the blessing of Mises's widow, Margit (1890-1993), who served as chairman, sponsors teaching programs and professional meetings, publishes journals and books, makes available audio and video, offers student assistance, and otherwise provides a wide range of services to uphold the Misesian tradition. The Mises Institute is not a "think tank" in the conventional sense because it serves no political party, offers no revolving door for public officials, nor seeks to embroil itself in the pseudo-sciences of social and economic management. Rather, the Mises Institute backs research and writing in defense of Austrian economics, the market economy, private property, sound money, and peaceful international relations, while opposing government intervention as economically and socially destructive. You can received our monthly newsletter for free"

Think tank is what you're showing me, PAC, lobby firm is what you have here. He's a blogger, extremely right wing and a blogger.