To all of the health care law supporters I don't understand why not one single one of you can't or won't answer my question: Where will the money come from to pay for this?
Is is because you never thought of it before I asked? Is it because when you think about this question now you realize the implications?

It's a simple question and I don't get why you are all avoiding it.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Sadly...there is only one place the money can come from......US, and after we are gone, our future generations will pay the price.! Something for our children and grandchildren to look forward too..

Same place as most publicly funded programs, taxpayers.
No I took civics in Jr. High, I already know how government works.

Avoiding it? I didn't realize anyone needed it spelled out.



P.S. If you want more specific answers, ask more specific questions.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Yes but the people who support the bill don't want to or like to admit that. And what about this

News: Last Seven Days | "Young may see higher premiums" | The Register-Guard | Eugene, Oregon

I bet you'll all feel a lot differently if you see your insurance premiums go up like this.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

So you're okay with your taxes going up and leaving a financial burden on your kids and grandkids?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Before anyone says this, let me do it for them:

Blah blah blah the war blah blah Bush blah blah cost all that blah blah money.

Okay, now that that's out of the way...

Wars are expensive, but they are essentially a finite expense. We're not still paying off anything Teddy Roosevelt did.

The health care bill is anything but finite. Forevermore, we shall pay through the nose.

I'm not a supporter but had this to add....

Taxpayers foot the $27 billion dollar annual cost for government health insurance coverage, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

No excuses people!
Educate yourselves.

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Actually our personal tax rate is pretty low compared to what some countries pay. Our corporate is through the roof though.



File:Income Taxes By Country.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You're already paying for it in your insurace and doctor bills anyway, someone has to pay for the uninsured?

And at this rate future generations will be broke and health insurance will cost $100,000+ a year for them, they won't be able to afford it either! So take the time ot fix it now instead of waiting and costing us more. Putting things off is what put this country in the shape it is now, the I'll pay for it later" attitude is the same for healthcare. Are you oging to wait until no one can afford it to do anything about it or work now to fix it?


Greed is all it comes down to and that's not what this country was built on.

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"A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer

Well perfect then impeach every elected official and make their jobs volunteer with no benefits. But that's a whole different discussion. It would save us a TON of money though!

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"A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer

Flipper, the thing is though....

Well, let me make an analogy.

Back in the day when my oldest was little, we were allowed one E.R. visit per year from our insurance plan at no charge. It was paid in full. At some point, that changed and we had a co-pay. Then it became part of the amount that would simply be applied to our $800/pp deductible until we hit the 80/20 zone.

Back then, I sort of rationed that one visit as best I could. If it was November and he was having asthma trouble - no matter how mild - I'd head on in to the E.R. at 10:30 PM rather than trying to manage it through the night and making an appt. in the A.M. if necessary.

Why? Because it was freeeee! I didn't like using my freebie early in the year unless I haaaaad to, but I also didn't freak out about it because... it was freeeee.

Youngest DS spent an asthma-related night in the E.R. recently. The bills are rolling in. So far it's up to about $650. We've almost hit his deductible. I spent quite a bit of time trying to discern if it was bad enough to go in because it wasn't freeeeeeee. Ultimately, it was the right decision.

Had it been free, I would have taken him in hours before I did.

You may be thinking, "What a shame that because of MONEY you did not seek medical care for your son in a timely manner!"

That's not how I see it.

He really didn't NEED to go in before we took him. We watch him for danger signs and if we see them, we take him in. It would have been nice to have the prednisone script earlier in the day. It would have been nice to have that boosted nebulizer treatment earlier in the day to supplement the ones we give at home.

But they were not *necessary*, and we did not seek them out until it was really necessary because of the money they would cost.

And that's how it should be.

But if it's all eventually free, we'll all go in for the little things.

CBO estimates were based not on projected increases in use of the system, but on current average visits for care. Just as we see the uninsured frequenting the expensive E.R. for treatment because they can't be turned away, if eventually there is no financial consequence to any of us, the ER will become the exam place of choice, and we'll go more often.

Because, of course, it is free.

Did you see that a number of large corporations are already declaring that they are dropping pharmaceutical benefits to retirees still on their company plans? The government used to give a little tax break to corporations that did that, because it kept those retirees off of Medicare's drug plan, and it was cheaper for uncle same to give the tax break to the corp. than to pay for the meds for the seniors. Now that the Obama plan has removed the tax break, the corps are dropping the seniors from their plans, which will force them to pay for the government's care plan.

I fear that's how it will ultimately go for all of us who have employer-funded packages.

Our health insurance has gone up $100 a month for the last 4 or 5 years. Right now we pay $750 a month with my dh company paying around $450 a month more. I dont' know how many more years we will be able to afford it. His raise every year never keeps up with the higher insurance rate. How in the world will our children and grandchildren ever afford insurance if the rates keep going like this?

Our insurance rates also went up this year, and our coverage went from a $15 co pay last year to a $3,700 deductable this year. So basically, we went from great coverage, to no coverage...unless we have a major medical problem. I have already stopped a few of my medications because of the cost. With that being said...I am still against the Obama plan. From all that I have heard, it will not help my family. In fact, our rates will probably increase yet again. The middle class will be screwed! I cannot imagine how overcrowded our ERs will become...

3to, that's why it needed reformed in some way. It's insane. I don't think anyone disagreed with that.

But I firmly believe that overall, we'll all be paying MORE, not LESS under this lovely new thing we've been 'gifted'.

HCR does some interesting things. It closes some tax loopholes built into the Medicare Part D and also eliminates the doughnut hole. It vastly curtails the subsidies for the Medicare Advantage program. (this is a program that is purchased from a health insurance company with exactly the same benefits as Medicare; we've been subsidizing industry profit)

It actually raises reimbursement rates for Medicaid and Medicare to healthcare providers.

There will be an additional 3.8% tax on capital gains for those making more than $250K. And, since rich people don't pay as big of percentage of their incomes in taxes as the middle class, it's a step in the right direction.

You will contribute towards the cost of your health care. It just won't cost you as much.

We cannot wait to get health care costs under control. Boomers are already starting to retire and there's alot of us out there.

I guess I don't understand how it won't cost us as much? How will the amount that we pay toward our insurance go down? How will the cost that the company my dh works for go down? I just don't see how that will happen, given that fact that most large companies will lose some of their tax credits with this new plan, which will probably mean that the added cost will have to come from somewhere. Many large companies are already coming forward with their projected loses because of this new plan..

You're right, Tammy. Did you see the statement Verizon issued?

If costs don't go up, then the benefits will suffer. It can't happen any other way.

This is also the year Social Security is going to pay out more than it takes in, and there is no lockbox. Never was.

And I'm sure there would be cases like this, but what about the post in the other thread about the son who didn't get care and died? how about my dad who couldn't afford health care and waited so long his cancer spread and it was too late? Isn't it worth a trade off for her son and my dad?

How about the thousands of people who have lost their home because of medical bills?

There are good parts to this bill, and yes some bad parts with it, I just don't see much of a choice. It's going to become too expensive for EVERYONE and then your husband or your son could be the next who can't afford it and dies because he gets no treatment.

When it's all about numbers it's hard to understand, but when it touches your family directly I think you have a little more understanding about how important this really is. Does it need to be revised, of course, but at least get it started and fix what parts don't work.

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"A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer

Medicare, Part D, a bill written entirely by the GOP with industry assistance, offered companies that provided pharmacy benefits to retirees a $1330 tax credit. Companies were writing off the entire cost against taxes as if they had received no subsidy. Obama closed that tax loophole.

So, yes, it's going to cost corporations some money. But, it saves the taxpayer money.

Flipper113 said our taxes are pretty low compared to other countries. That's NOT true. I have been fighting that argument for years with a friend from Denmark who says the government takes 50% in taxes, and how that is so much more than here?
Well, lets see about our taxes: Sales tax, property taxes, Federal and State and some cities income taxes. Lets not forget the fees that are really taxes: animal license, auto licence plates and renewals and driver's license, gasoline taxes, cigarette taxes, social security taxes, usage taxes. IE: cell phone, internet, telephone, take a look at your bills........................shall I go on. Figure it out, we are taxed easily 50% and more in some cases.
Health care will deteriorate under this plan.......believe it!! I am an RN and I can tell you things are bad now, but wait, our wallets will run dry and health care will further decline. Sad, but true, our children and theirs will really pay the price. One more thing, if this is such a good thing, why are NOT the congress, senate, and Obama himself going under this universal health care plan????? It should be a must that they have the same "great" coverage they are touting for us.

This is not universal health care. It is a small step towards health insurance for everyone.

Uhmmm... because there is NO universal health care plan. Kind of scary that you say you're a RN and you don't know this. BTW, President Obama said he will participate in the health insurance exchange but don't worry you don't have to.

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"Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we are discovering we work for Fox." ~David Frum

Did I miss something...Obama and his family are going to use this new wonderful great fantastic health care plan? Sure they are...(april fools)

?????

Why is it scary that an RN wouldn't use the most appropriate terminology to describe a health care bill that is 90,000,000 pages long and was just published for public consumption about a week ago?

Her job is not billing. Her job is patient care.

I think it's pretty hysterical and telling that congress gets its own plan.

The whole "You can keep your plan if you want to!" think is so short-sighted and I can't believe anyone would fall for it. Anyone with half a brain has to know that the plans people had last month will not be the same plans that are available in the near future, because the new corporate taxes are going to force companies to cut benefits and reduce coverage through those plans.

"Your plan" will not exist in its present form.

Honey I dont think anyone was avoiding your question, I just dont think anyone actually realized that it was an actual question. I mean, was anyone here really supposed to think that, that was a question that someone actually needed answered as if they didnt know the answer already?

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Someone stole my kitchen table......Oh wait..... there it is, impersonating a pile of coupons.

I look at it this way, so many people die each and every day, old and young because they dont have health care, I am willing to do my part and pay out of pocket to do what I can to help with that. If I am not paying for that then you can bet your butt I will be payiing for something else that is useless because the goverment wants me too.
I feel a whole lot better knowing that I and the future generation are helping with health care than helping with legalizing the next fad drug!!!

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Someone stole my kitchen table......Oh wait..... there it is, impersonating a pile of coupons.

When X and I were married, all of us were double covered.....and when youngest had to go to ER in Arkansas while we there for vacation, we still ended up w/ a $500 bill. Of course, my lovely ER visit which resulted in a 2.5 day in-patient stay cost us nothing.

Insurance has allowed me to take my children in to the doctor whenever I felt it was necessary. Insurance has allowed me to get the treatment I need for my chronic conditions. BUT---I work for the privilege of having darn good insurance! I don't think it's fair that I have to pay for mine---as well as paying for others.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I have to agree that those of us with health insurance plans now, will probably see changes in our existing policies. With so many companies losing their tax break for insurance, something will have to give. It will either mean we as consumers will pay more for our existing health insurance, or benefits will end up being reduced or cut. Too many people aren't looking at the big picture. It all sounds so wonderful now, giving health insurance to everyone, but when it starts having an impact on those who already have health insurance, it won't seem like such a great plan. It all boils down to where the money to pay for this plan will come from.....and we all already know the answer!

We have good insurance through dh's work, and I realize it may be affected and that kinda sucks. But I also have a child with a rare and serious disease. Now I have peace of mind knowing that if we ever lose our insurance, that he can't be denied coverage somewhere else. As it stood before even if he never had another tumor, never got sick again, his medical history would follow him forever and probably prevent him from be able to purchase health insurance as an adult.

Insurance companies have become more and more selective in who they're willing to insure. Either denying coverage or charging exorbitant rates for those that aren't in optimal health. There are loads of kids out there currently with either insurance covered by their parents employers or medicaid with health conditions that will make it very difficult get insured later on. Even something as minor as mild asthma as a child can be an excuse to double the rate of an adult trying to purchase private insurance.

I'm not sure if this bill, as it is now, is the answer. I'm sure as new policies are instituted a lot of tweaks will be needed. I don't doubt that initially it will cost us more, it's kinda silly to think it won't. But in the long run I think a healthy citizenry will pay off and save our children more money in the future. (those with and without health problems)

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

It's not that I am against removing things like restrictions on pre existing conditions or denying coverage or removing lifetime caps on money spent. I AM against the Federal Govt taking charge of a program as I have said because they are money wasters and the bureaucracy they create does more harm than good. I am also against forcing people to have insurance.

They could have just as easily passed legislation removing the lifetime caps, the denials of coverage and the restrictions on pre existing conditions without creating some sort of federal agency or program to oversee this and without forcing people to purchase health insurance.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Unfortunately if insurance companies are required to cover people with pre-existing conditions, there has to be a system in place to that insures that people won't just wait until they get sick to buy coverage.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

First - Can you tell me what agencies or programs have been created.

Second - that you would be okay with legislation to remove caps and denial of coverage yet not require mandatory health insurance shows you have absolutely no idea about that of which you speak.

What program is the Federal Government taking charge of?

If we don't require people to have health insurance when they show up at the hospital with no insurance and no money, what then? Do you deny care? Do you stop treatment once their money runs out? Or do you require tax payers to cover their bill?

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"Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we are discovering we work for Fox." ~David Frum

I don't mean in this situation I mean in general. All Federal Agencies waste money and many of them do not do what they are supposed to do.

I am entitled to my opinion and you can go to every single one of posts and find something wrong with it. I have already stated that you obviously hate me without knowing me. For some reason I rub you the wrong way and you are now on a campaign to insult me. I feel nothing but pity for you. What a joy you must be to the people around you.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Do you have a source for this information? The Medicare payments just went down, now you are saying they are going up?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Just bumping to see if KVMJ (or anyone else for that matter) can sight a source for this claim.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.