I have a friend who just found out her husband is cheating. She got their phone bill and saw that there were hundreds of text messages between him and a number she didn't recognize. She asked me to call the number and I heard a woman's message. It was someone she didn't know. She confronted him and he admitted that he had been having an affair for about 6 weeks. Apparently, it is someone he dated casually years ago and just recently ran in to again. The woman is married, too. My friend is torn. They have kids and she just doesn't know what to do. She's angry and hurt, but hasn't asked him to leave. She said she is trying to figure out if she can get over it and having him there will make that easier. Plus, she doesn't want to cause upheaval with the kids if she ends up trying to work it out. Her husband says that he has ended the affair. He said that he told the woman that his wife found out and he doesn't want to lose his family. He told my friend that he doesn't love the woman - just liked the attention. Apparently, he is apologizing like crazy and says he knows he made very bad decisions. Now, my friend is thinking about calling the other woman to tell her that she knows and she needs to stay away from her husband. She wants to tell the other woman that she will tell the cheater's husband if she contacts my friend's husband again. I'm not really sure that's a good idea, but I'm trying to be supportive. She is devastated. Anyway, she's asked me for my advice on the call and I'm a little unsure of what to tell her. I'm not even sure it would be effective. It seems like her husband is either going to really end it or not, so calling the other woman wouldn't really be effective. WWYD?

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Kim

I would refer her over to the SAA board at www.marriagebuilders.com.

It's her best possible chance at recovery, imo.

She'll be told to expose, most likely. The husband of the woman deserves the courtesy of knowing so that he can decide what to do, she can even give him the link as well. Great support there, though I have fortunately never needed it.

The posters there have been through it all and can give her a ton of information on how to gather information, how to expose, and how to recover. If he's truly repentant, she's in a good position to push for counseling through Dr. Harley there. Less expensive than child support.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

I know what I would do (if I caught my husband messing around)...I'd tell that other woman's husband and make her life a living hell....HA! But that's just what I would do. I'm sure that NO ONE would suggest that to her...just saying for me "paybacks are HELL!" SHOW NUFF!

She will get good advise from marriagebuilders.

Maybe the woman's husband doesn't give a crap whether she had an affair or not. Maybe he's used to it and just sticks in there to keep his family together. Maybe he truly loves her and will put up with just about anything. Maybe this woman is miserable in her marriage and secretly wants her husband to find out. We don't know what the situation is. For me personally, I would mind my own business and just try to be there for your friend during this upsetting time. I once was friends with a girl who had the same thing happen to her. She asked me for advice and I gave it to her. I told her that I just wouldn't hand my husband over to the other woman on a silver platter (maybe his head...LOL). I told her to kick him out for awhile and she did. Eventually they worked things out. After that, our friendship was a bit strained. I think she felt embarassed for some reason and probably was sorry she even told me. I don't think her husband appreciated anyone knowing this news. If they work things out, you may look like the bad guy, her husband won't like you for getting in their business (even though she asked for your advice), and you may not be as close as you are now. Just my humble opinion. ~Lisa

I know what *I* would do if it happened to me (and my husband knows it) but I am not sure I could give anyone else advise on the subject because as said, the relationship could get strained. I would recommend her to a neutral site where she can see what others have done in her situation

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm trying to stay out of it, but I feel so bad for her! I did tell her about the marriagebuilders site.

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Kim

Personally I would not stay with my husband if he had an ongoing affair. I might consider counseling and taking other steps if it was a drunken one night stand but I still would not trust him for a very long time, if ever. That might not be right for everyone but that's what I would do.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Thankfully I've never been in that situation, but I think I'd make him leave for a while. Even if I felt like I could work through it. He has to know that she is serious. If he stays and she forgives him, then what are the consequences and what keeps him from doing it again? I'm not sure I could get over it. I've told my DH if he ever chooses to cheat, she better be worth it because it'll cost him half of everything and his kids.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

I'm with Anna. I personally wouldn't stay with my husband if I found out he cheated. Heck, mine did cheat and we split. I've never been happier.

I hope whatever your fried decides makes her happy. In the end, that's all that matters, happiness.

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Support bacteria -- it's the only culture some people have!

If Vegetarians eat Vegetables. Do Humanitarians eat Humans?

'Vegetarian' is an old Native American word for bad hunter.

Yep, that's what I've told my husband, too.

IMHO there are 2 kinds of cheating: One where it was a totally one-time thing.....they got close, they never meant for it to happen, there were lots of difficulties in their lives and they were attracted to numb the pain of something. He repents, gets his life in order, they go for counseling and it works out.

However, what we are seeing more and more of lately is serial cheating. It is an apparent inability to remain monogamous. They go from girl to girl to girl like Tiger Woods. I am only using that name because it is in the news and everyone would get that reference, but I have known many many men who are exactly like that. In that case, the wife needs to look very hard at the truth of their lives. Stop ignoring all the warning signs and get out.

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Why can't "your friend" keep her man? I know I will be scolded for this but if I caught him cheating I would not stay. I know this isn't very traditional, but I can live on my own if I have to. But luckily he would never cheat because I know how to keep a man. He keeps getting surprises so he wont stray.

My husband knows if he cheats, I will go for the throat and take him for everything I can. I would never *take* the kids away but I would want full custody. I have told him that if he doesn't want to be with me and wants another woman (or just to be single), SAY SOMETHING! Sure, I'll be mad or sad for awhile but honesty is always the best policy. If he says something and we separate first, I'll be *nice* in the divorce. If not...watch out!

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I would not leave and displace my children in this circumstance. What have they done to deserve having their lives turned upside down?

Leaving or kicking someone out would just make it easier for the wayward to continue carrying on the affair with ease. Making a decision to leave while emotions are high could be catastrophic to reconciliation. Not that the deed isn't damaging enough.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

This is just me personally if if I repeat if I ever found out my husband was cheating my heart would be eternally broken and no matter what I would still love him but I would leave him because I could never ever get over it and the bond of trust when we took our vows in church in front of God would be broken. I know some people can move on with help from interventions and speaking to a professional but for me again no way. There is never ever an excuse to cheat, if you not happy and not in love and tried to work on everything possible in your relationship, then part ways divorce and move on. Sorry to hear about your friend I could never ever imagine this for anyone and the pain must be unbearable. Peace. Catherine

I see both sides of this, but I agree more with your thoughts. She's not sure, so she doesn't want to disrupt everyone and everything in case they are able to work it out. She's still reserving judgment on whether she will be able to come to terms with it. She wants to see how he's going to act now and that would be difficult to view if he's staying in a hotel (plus it can get expensive!)

I checked out that marriagebuilders site and it looks like there are pretty much two ways this might go - either it's over (sooner rather than later) or they will get through it and come out stronger. That's assuming that this is really an isolated incident and he hasn't been cheating on her all along. Man, what a mess. I don't understand why people cheat. I'm with sexysmurf in her thinking - if you feel like you want something different, say it. Don't go behind the other person's back....

Thanks again for all the feedback.

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Kim

[quote=Newfun4me;3390267]I don't understand why people cheat.
QUOTE]

When I read this post I was afraid it was you personally.
Regardless now that I know it's a friend of yours, I would give the same advice.

Until the lab results are back and definitively negative, she obviously can't make a final decision. The "what if(s)" keep her from doing that now. She may love him but may not be able to ever look him the face again if he exposed her to an STD.

Making contact with the other party serves no purpose except to "vent". Threats aren't enforceable and she'll end up stewing over whatever reaction she provokes from the other party. Salt in a festering wound.

Whether it was the first time or the fifth time he's done it. Something was taken from her that she'll never fully recover. TRUST. Will she continue to live with a nagging doubt for the rest of their lives together? He made room for someone extra in their lives, that's alot of room for doubt to linger.

My advice. Tell her to regain her own balance because she got the rug yanked out from under her. When she's able to rationally examine what was happening in the marriage before the adultry, then she'll know how much and how far she's willing to go to mend it.

In the meantime, offer a shoulder to cry on and ears to listen until you sense that she's in a more balanced state of mind to discuss "the rest of her life".

X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

having been the spouse that was cheated on, my viewpoint may be a little skewed, but here goes:

You can love someone all you want, but if you can't trust them---no amount of love is going to fix distrust.

My first suggestion is your friend needs to seek professional counseling. Someone who does not have a vested interest in the situation.

Your friend needs to make a decision if this is something she can forgive AND FORGET. Because trust me, if she can't wipe the slate clean? Every minor disagreement will eventually turn back to "you cheated on me".

I say he needs to move out for a while. Not necessarily as a punishment but to give each person a chance to get over the anger, and to re-assess their feelings. My experience was: I needed time, I needed space and the X wouldn't hear of it. I wanted to just be able to NOT see his face. It got to the point where the sound of him breathing set my teeth on edge, and I disliked him even more!

I would bet a dollar that this was not the first time or it won't be the last time he'll cheat. Your friend needs to think about what happens if there is a next time or she finds out this wasn't the first time.

As to calling the "other woman"? I wouldn't. There are too many unknowns and variables. The other woman could be psycho, the other woman could have an abusive husband (not that that excuses cheating) who would kill her if he found out. Your friend could be labeled as a troublemaker....the list goes on and on.

so here's what I would recommend:
1) seek legal advice. Most initial consults are offered free.
2) seek individual counseling
3) seek marriage counseling
4) have the ex move out
5) don't call "the other woman"

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I would part ways

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-Kristi

I don't think anyone can give this lady the answer for her. This will be a decision she will have to make. No one knows what goes on in a family behind closed doors and for anyone to tell this lady what to do I think is a disservice to all involved. She will have to make this decision.

The old saying "the grass is greener on the other side -- well, maybe it's because it's growing over a septic tank!" Once this guy has seen his mistake, he may be one of those who will never do it again and has learned his lesson.

It certainly would be tempting to get even and tell the other woman's husband about the affair but your friend better be ready on whatever the outcome might be from her doing this. You can only control your own behavior but not others. We don't know if the message will be received in calm manner or a violent one.

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Loida Chan
A Bargain Shopper who believes that Life's Luxuries can come at small prices.

Exposure always makes the waywards angry initially, but it brings the affair out of the dark and takes that clandestine pull of it away. It often ends quickly afterwards. It's no longer much fun. Everyone pertinent knows, so it's not like they're getting away with anything. Even if it doesn't end immediately after exposure, most affairs last about 6 months, tops, and if a marriage does occur, it usually doesn't last because the foundation of that marriage is very weak, built on distrust and betrayal.

Most affairs begin because of a combination of 3 things: There are bad habits in the relationship, one spouse is not getting their needs met, and they are not spending enough one-on-one time together. The trick is to find out what your spouse's gripes and needs actually are. MB can help with that.

I've been a frequent visitor of that website above, and in 5 years' of membership have never read about a violent reaction. Angry, yes. Violent, no. I wouldn't rule it out, but just saying. I think in a lot of circumstances, the betrayed spouses already have an inkling what's going on. Some want out and divorce. Children in the mix often make the difference in desire to work it out.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

Also, if I felt the need to divorce, I would certainly see a lawyer before I'd pack a single bag and step one foot out the door. I'd want to know how the courts view this sort of thing and if there could be any financial or legal repercussions down the line.

Sometimes when we make reactionary/emotional decisions in the heat of the moment, we can really screw up other aspects
of our lives.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

I think your friend has to make up her own mind. One thing I have never understood is a woman going after the other woman, instead of her man. He is the one that took vows, not the other woman. Blows my mind, really!

Also, I doubt you could keep a man from his children because he cheated. Just sayin...

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I would think it would be a reaction out of anger. I would be so upset at ALL parties involved, I would want to lash out at everyone. Just a typical reaction, I think.

On a sort of side note, I saw the interview with Rielle (sp?) Hunter, mistress to John Edwards. I found it interesting that she said she did not lie. I don't understand how a woman could have an affair with a man she knows is married. Now, back to your statement, does it make it any less wrong on the woman's part?? What happened to common deceny?? Wouldn't you be angry if some woman had an affair with your DH?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

It's easier to blame the other person. By blaming the other person, you feel better. Because if it's your spouse's fault, then that means you may have missed something, may have not been a good judge of character, means that you question yourself about if you did something to cause your spouse to turn to another. It's a defense mechanism.

As to the whole keeping a man from his children----it takes a lot. I mean A LOT for the courts to take parental rights away from a parent in a divorce.
Hell, I couldn't even have gotten the x's visitation taken away and he was engaged in some deviant/questionable behaviour! Most states a parent has to commit a felony with the children in tow before visitation is revoked/limited.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Plain and simple. Accountability.
Up until she spread her legs willingly and gave permission for penetration, what he did to her would have been considered RAPE. Without permission he would have been forcing sexual intercourse and again, we're back at a definition of RAPE.


That brings a higher burden of responsibility on "the other woman's" shoulders.
Men don't accidentally trip on a rug and have a certain body part lodge where it shouldn't. Most men aren't serial rapist so a lot of permission is being granted in the first place. By whom????

Now if you read a post I replied earlier you'll see I don't think she should "go after" the other woman. I don't think it serves a purpose. However, when looking at an affair and saying it's 50/50 on who's responsibility it was to begin with, my explanation above kinda shakes that up now doesn't it?

There is a difference between "wicked" men and "weak-minded" men. We've all heard the saying, You can look, but you can't touch right? Well of course, because it's against the law to touch another person's privates without their permission.
Who's giving the permission? Who suddenly & ultimately changes the circumstances from criminal to casual?
Yes, in my opinion, women have a right to be angry with the other woman involved for that very reason. Permission was granted.

X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

I agree with what you all say, that she did take part. I just see so many women that are angry at the other woman and give her full blame, while the man that promised to honor them is the one that owed them that. Many times, the woman does not even know they are married. I can't count how many times a man has hit on me and lied like a dog saying they were not married. There were always signs later, like they did not have a home phone, they were only available at certain hours, etc., but some of them are really good at it.

One guy hit on me when I was working at a retail store and his wife was in the store. He later told me she was his sister. ugh! I have also been cheated on and when I heard the stories he had told the gal, I was amazed.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I think it is terrible for a woman to go after a married man because she would not want another woman to do that to her. Yes the man is the married party, but I always think that women are smarter. They should care more about breaking up a family. And once a man cheats on his wife why in the world would you think he would be faithfull to you.

I had a friend that was dating her dh when he was still married. After they got married he only paid child support sometimes (which she was fine with) and didn't see his children very often. They divorced after two children and she was very angry when he didn't see them or pay child support. I thought that was funny. She already knew what he was like, but didn't like when it happened to her.

I totally agree it is wrong. I just know I was mad as hell at my man, not as much that other girl. He owed me and he had lied to her.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

Wow, that's sexist.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

really, it's not that difficult---the wife blaming the "other" woman more than her man has to do with the wife. You blame the other woman, because if you don't you start questioning what YOU (as the wife) may have done wrong. You start questioning how or why you missed the signs. You start questioning how you could have been so blinded that you didn't see your husband lack of character. You project the anger on to the other woman because it's easier to blame a nameless/faceless stranger, than to blame someone you choose to live with.

I mean do any of ya'll want to admit that you may have been the reason your spouse strayed? (typically not the case, but, in the situation you always second guess yourself).
Do any of ya'll want to admit your misjudged the character of your spouse?

It's just easier to be mad at the "other" woman (or man) than it is to be angry w/ a spouse. If you blame the other person, then you don't have to admit your spouse is a cheater.

*sigh* I never doubted the my ex was the cheater. And unfortunately, I almost got sucked into being the "the other" woman---dated a guy for a couple of weeks, and realized something just wasn't right, and point blank asked him if he was married. He was. And OMG! As much as I wanted to continue seeing him, and as much as he assured me that it was "ok" for me and him to be together---I just couldn't/wouldn't. He and I still talk occasionally---but he knows that we will not be anything other than friends until he is no longer married. I just knew the pain I went through when I found out, and I couldn't do that to any other woman!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Thanks again for all of the thoughts. She's VERY angry at her husband and puts the majority of the blame with him. She's decided against contacting the other woman or her husband. She's just trying to get through each day.

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Kim

I can not stress enough how important I feel it is for her to seek counsel!
Legal counsel---she needs to know what her "options" are, and she needs to protect herself financially and legally.
Psych counsel---she needs to talk to someone who has nothing invested emotionally in the situation. It may give her the coping tools, and insight that will allow her to make a decision on NON-EMOTIONAL reasoning.

Finally, Medical counsel---she needs to be tested for STDs. For the love of all that is holy she should not believe the cheating spouse if he assures her it wasn't sexual or that he allows practiced safe sex...He's lied once, he very well could lie again to make himself feel better.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Honestly I feel that in any case of an affair, there was something missing in the marriage obviously from the cheaters point of view....
It is important to find out what that is and if it can be repaired!!

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Be careful what you wish for.....

I talked to her this morning. They had a decent weekend. He is swearing up and down that he will never do it again. I guess we'll see. I know she wants to believe him.

She said she thought about it a lot over the weekend and feels a bit of responsibility. I couldn't believe she said that! But, she said that things haven't been as "spicy" as they could be. She's always tired - working, taking care of the house, the kids, etc. Anyway, she said she takes responsibility, not blame. I see the difference, but I'm not sure I could be that big of a person. However, she really wants to figure out what went wrong and what they can do to fix it.

I feel so bad for her. They seemed so happy and she said she seriously had no idea that this was going on. I don't understand how there could be no signs, but I believe that she didn't see them. Maybe she just didn't want to???

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Kim

Can you tell me if she apologized to her husband for not being able to keep him on the straight path? You know if she divorces she will become un-marry-able.

That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my whole life and I've heard some stupid stuff! I can only assume that was a joke right?

Now how did I know you would say this?

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Friends are like butt cheeks.
Crap might separate them,
But they always come back together.

You are amazing. The things that come out of your mouth don't surprise me, but wow.

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Friends are like butt cheeks.
Crap might separate them,
But they always come back together.

How…tied-up, sedated or at gun point ?

What…electric shocks ?

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lol!!!

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Friends are like butt cheeks.
Crap might separate them,
But they always come back together.

Newfun...just reiterating that MarriageBuilders really does have a good plan for recovery, and if they are both on board with reconciling, they can strengthen the marriage so this never happens again. Please consider mentioning it to her again. There are steps they need to take to make sure there isn't a repeat of this in their marriage.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

Thanks, guys. I can't even bring myself to respond to pp. The posts are so disrespectful and mean-spirited.

Bsrs, I asked her about marriagebuilders this morning. She said she had kind of looked at it, but hadn't spent a lot of time. She said she is going to. I didn't want to push her, so I just dropped it. They are going to go to counseling, though. I think he's going first, then they will go together.

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Kim

Okay. There's a lot of support for betrayed spouses there on the SAA board (surviving an affair), and she can use it on her own or they can use it together. The psychologist who runs it will do phone appointments, so they could do it from the privacy of their home too. She may get some benefit from just lurking around that board and reading the other stories.

In all honesty, if her husband posts he will be held accountable and told what he needs to do to protect his wife and family. There's very little head patting at MB before your own behavior is analyzed and dissected. lol It's a proactive website and has a much higher success rate than traditional marriage counseling.

I'm glad she checked it out. Hopefully she'll do it again.

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"Dance like no one is watching."

She's a goader! (is that a word? HAHAHA!)

Nope....not the case of "any" affair.
Some people just can not, will not stay monogamous.

By what you are saying, it places the blame to some extent on the injured spouse. Almost as absurd as PP.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Marilyn, I understand what you are saying, and appreciate it because you are speaking from personal experience.

I don't, however, think that every affair starts with the same catalyst.

I think there are truly some men out there who are not interested in monogamy despite protests - and a life scenario - to the contrary. Just because they wear a ring doesn't mean they are mature enough to remain faithful. Those are the kind women would do well to steer clear of from Day One.

And while it is always, always, ultimately the decision of the cheater to take that final step, I do know that the other spouse often *can* make the difference in whether a generally mature husband might give in to straying.

I have a relative (an in-law) who cheated on his wife. He claimed they didn't go 'all the way', but from what his wife described they were certainly far closer than two married people should ever be to anyone else. In addition to the physical nature of his affair, he was emotionally invested in the other woman. It was a mess. It's been 15 years since it happened and I still get ill thinking about it.

My sister-in-law had not been a very good wife to my brother-in-law. He would have driven me to drink... but I didn't marry him. She did. He is a nice guy. A really nice guy. But he is very particular to the point that it takes him 20X longer than most people to do a job because he is perfecting details that are of no consequence. He also gets his feelings hurt more easily than I think is reasonable for an adult man. There are just things about him that would make him a BAD match for me. He's not a bad person - I just would not have chosen to marry him.

But my sister-in-law did.

And since they day they got married she has really ruled the roost in their home. If ever he had the perception that he was supposed to be the 'man of the house', well... she squashed that perception early on. She complains that he doesn't make enough money. She complains that he is lazy. She nags and nags... and a lot of her frustrations *are* legit... however, they are attributes he possessed before they got married - attributes she actually *appreciated* - that ultimately became a big turn-off for her.

For instance, he loves to watch movies. When they were first dating the two of them rented movie after movie and enjoyed watching them together. Now she gets angry at him for wasting time on the couch like that when she sees there is work to do. I think she'd get a lot farther with him if she'd take the night off now and again and just sit on the couch *with* him and enjoy the show rather than nagging.

I could go on and on and on about their situation, but the bottom line is that he is very sensitive and needs to feel appreciated and wanted, and she morphed from a very lovey-dovey person prior to their marriage to someone who seems to think he is an idiot and never passes up the opportunity to say so.

He should never have strayed, but I understand what left him vulnerable to the overtures of a woman who told him he looked nice, who sat and had conversations with him, and who was interested in hearing about his job (as opposed to nagging about how it didn't pay enough).

It's NO excuse for what he did. Not at ALL. But my sister-in-law not only didn't guard her marriage - she chose to exacerbate wounds and push him away.

Do I hold her responsible? Partly. She knew what he needed to feel whole and at peace, and she completely withheld affection and caring and praise from him. That's not what loving spouses do for each other, and this man, in particular, given his sensitive nature, would *not* have strayed had he felt loved and accepted by his wife. I can almost guarantee it.

Wow--

I understand, and I have seen marriages like you describe.
I just don't agree w/ the generalization that "any" affair starts because something is missing.

That's like saying "any spousal abuse" usually occurs because something is missing. Know what I mean?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I think this situation is very similar, although the background is different. My friend feels like she probably "neglected" her husband a little bit. Not that that gives him permission to do what he did, but she probably should have put more effort into making him feel wanted.

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Kim

Most good marriages are good marriages because both parties are invested in each other. When one spouse 'checks out', they contribute to putting the marriage at risk.

It doesn't excuse cheating in any way, shape, or form...but I do think that sometimes - not always, but sometimes - the 'victim' of the cheating did bear some responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage.

infidelity is directly linked to having had pre-marital sex. but nevermind me, you just keep up with your modern ways and lose your man.

And again you open your mouth and nothing of importance comes out.

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Friends are like butt cheeks.
Crap might separate them,
But they always come back together.

Blah blah blah blah blah blabber blabber blabber...yeah that's right! Clap clap clap come here little goad!