Before I even answer mine personal views I sincerely do not want this to turn into a battle lets each respect each others views tia and peace. As you all may know my personal feelings already I am all for it 10000 percent . I see no problems and honestly feel God created us all and loves us all one and the same. I believe it is 2010 almost 2011 and it is truly about time all of us deserve the same rights as heterosexual couples. It is more then a piece of paper for sure, it can afford the same rights and decisions all marriages bring. So kindly share your thoughts thanks and peace. Catherine

I don't believe the State should have anything to do with "marriage." If two people want to be married for religious purposes, then they should go to their church and have the ceremony before their God. If two people want to commit to bare the burdens of promising to care for each other in order to enjoy the benefits the State gives people who promise to take care of each other, then they should make that contract with the State.

There are some people who want the religious part, but not the State part. There are some who want the State part, but not the religious part. Many want both.

IMHO -- the State should never have gotten into the marriage business.

What she said!


Marriage in the eyes of God and marriage in the eyes of man do not have to be mutually exclusive, but it can be!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Nightowlrn, I could not have said it any better. I agree.

Agreed with all so far, but does anyone even think that all states will allow gay marriages . Like I said before for me its goes further then the piece of paper, actually the paper for me is truly very important but more then that I just personally loved knowing we were married in a church in the eyes of God and presented before all our friends and family. Also for me it was important that I have his name again just personal to me. I guess I am naive when it comes to certain issues in our country why so many people are againist same sex marriage I mean honestly in the end who really cares, how does it effect you personally so why do so many people still ban it???. I guess we or me will never have all the answers . Peace and thanks. Catherine

My best friend from childhood is now married to her lesbian lover.I never knew she was a lesbian the whole time we grew up together.We always talked about cute guys. I've also discovered another friend I hungout with was gay but I didn't know it at the time.
But anyway,so no I have nothing against other people being gay and marrying.I do know that when I'm around too many "gay" people it makes me feel like I'm the odd one for being straight and that I'm doing it all wrong and that man and woman aren't suppose to be together,and that men are just suppose to be there for making babies.So that is why the whole gay scene just makes me uncomfortable.It also makes me feel like that whenever I talk to a girl that I'm leading her on.I guess thats why gay marriage is good,because then you can talk to them and feel safe because you know they are married.

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I think gays should be able to marry. My first boyfriend turned out to be gay. I had no clue.

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I've never lied to you. I've always told you some version the of truth.

I believe that two consenting adults should be allowed to get married. Right now the way the laws of the land stand any man can marry any woman and there are states you can go to (i.e. Nevada) where you can be married in a few minutes regardless of why or what your relationship is.
I hope that states will allow this. Many gay people are religious and would like their unions sanctioned by God in their house of worship.
As far as the government being involved that is due to all the legalities of two people forming a union. It has important legal and financial implications.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I could not have said it better myself!

On another note:

My mom had an interesting point I hadn't thought of (until she brought it up). She is against it because she is almost to the age she can collect social security (and my dad already is). SS is almost broke as it is, she said "what you do think will happen if gay marriage is allowed...SS will just be gone a lot sooner" (because the spouses will be eligible...they aren't now) . It's not something I thought of because I know it won't be around for me (it will be bankrupt long before I'm eligible in my opinion) but my mom...I think she has a point and maybe that's the *true* reason a lot of late 50 and 60 somethings don't want gay marriage...they fear for their social security benefits????

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I think they should be allowed to get married. I will be honest at first I thoght no way (because of religious views) however once I looked past the church teaching that it is wrong, they are just people and if they found the love and happiness they were looking for within their same sex, then let them be and let them get married and have their fairy tale ending.

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~~~~**Maryann**~~~~

I just got a firm grip on reality....
Now I can strangle it

nightowlrn has already been quoted quite a few times, so I won't quote the paragraph again. I'll simply say that I completely agree!

Some religions may allow gay marriage, and some may not. They should continue to have the right to decide if their faith permits 2 men or 2 women to receive that sacrament. However, the legal rights and protections bestowed upon couples by the government should be open to all adults of legal age. I believe our Constitution promises this, and it should be federal law and not up to individual states to decide.

There are so many complications with the way most marriage laws are now written to exclude gay couples. Medical power of attorney, probate, parental rights... It goes so far beyond the symbolism of that piece of paper. And, yes- even things like social security. I completely understand why sexysmurf's mom is concerned about her retirement. It's frightening! However, I'm not rooting for heterosexual couples to get divorced before 10 years, so that one spouse can't collect on the other's eventual retirement benefits!

If we as a society believe that marriage is important to the stability of the family- then we should encourage family values for all of the different types of families that exist in our society. That means allowing one mom to choose to stay home and raise the family while the other mom earns an income and medical benefits. That means allowing one dad to continue to raise the children after the other dad passes on. These situations are currently way too complicated and unjust.

Thanks again to all for your input into this matter I sincerely appreciate it all. Peace to all. Catherine

Just curious, when you talk to single guys, do you worry that they think you're leading them on? Do you feel safer talking to married men?

Anyway, to answer the OP's question - I support gay marriage.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

[quote=jujubee2;3418057]Just curious, when you talk to single guys, do you worry that they think you're leading them on?Sometimes,yes, because I am still unmarried .Do you feel safer talking to married men? Yes quote]
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I am all for it. If 2 people love each other then why does it matter if they are same sex or not. Men and women have been getting married forever now, and honestly we still haven't perfected it. It shouldn't matter what sex they prefer.

As far as Social Security or Health Insurance goes. They pay into it just like we do. Just because they are same sex doesn't mean they haven't earned their right to collect into something they themselves have paid into. I find it unfair to tell someone "hey pay into this but because your gay you can never use it."

I also agree with gay marriage for the decision making on health care and life in general. When something happens to a gay partner you often find that the very family that kicked them out or did not accept them for who they are, all the sudden has the right to determine what happens to them. The partner who in a lot of cases has spent years with this one person and probably knows better than anyone what this person wants has no say at all. I find that wrong on so many levels.

I feel I have no right to tell anyone they can't do something. Who am I to make that decision. They are adults they should have the same rights as adults no matter sexual preference.

And while I am on it. Gays and adoption. I think they should be allowed to adopt. They have children because they want those children. They jump through hoops to get them and have to prove they are mentally and finacially able to care for these children. You will find very few Welfare gays having children to collect a check.

I also support gay marriage.

Some valid points, of course to collect Social Security gay or not you must put into to receive benefits when you reach the age to collect. Also about men and women who have been getting married for hundreds of years and still have not perfected it makes alot of sense, but then again every marriage is different. Finally a gay couple for want to adopt and add to their family I am all for it as well , as long as the child is well taken care of and is given all the love and care in the world, then why not, anyone can become a mother or father, however it takes a special person to become a daddy and mommy. Thanks again to all for your input. Peace. Catherine

[quote=dollydeal;3418077]You must be better looking than me! I never give it a second thought.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I do not support gay marriage.

Everyone needs love. There is a difference between sex and love. I don't think marriage is for everyone that is their choice however.
Gays as welll as straights should be allowed ever benefit that they are entitled to.
Straight marriages aren't perfect
Gay marriages won't be perfect
Nothing in life is perfect
For sure I am not perfect

I think that people should be able to decide what they want to do with their own life. It's their life!!! There are more important things for our government to worry about than people marrying someone of the same sex.

Would you mind elaborating? Surprisingly, most of us posting in this thread are of the same opinion that gay marriage is fair and just. I'm sorry to put you on the spot, I'm simply sincerely interested in learning why you oppose gay marriage.

Having "known" KellyJef for a while on these boards--I know that she is fairly conservative in her beliefs. I don't think she should have to explain her opinion. She stated her opinion without being rude, or insulting. Even though her opinion is different, it's hers.

She and I have differed on many things. We have traded some pretty not so nice exchanges...and over the years we have come to respect each other's right to hold differing opinions. Even when we don't agree!

That's not to say she can't or shouldn't elaborate on her opinion---I just don't think she should have to if she doesn't want to.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I agree 100 percent with what Marilyn said about Kelly-jef if you go back and read my original post I did ask to keep comments nice and no fighting if I did not say those exact words that is what I mean't to say. As Marilyn said I also totally believe that Kelly-jef is conservative from reading alot of her posts and also like Marilyn said me too and Kelly-jef have not always gotten along .However she gave her view which I asked and I respect it and she has everyright to her views, while we may not agree, it is so much better then bickering back and forth. If she Kelly-jef wishes to answer your question that is totally up to her but she does not need to.. Peace to all. Catherine

Most of the people that I know personally are very against gay marriage! Their opinions are based on their religious beliefs. Mostly Southern Baptist. When I was in Texas about a month ago...they were all sickened by the thought of gay marriage. As far as I can see, religious beliefs drive the anti gay(marriage) sentiment.

I, on the other hand, do not share their religious beliefs and couldn't care less of gays marry. If that's what makes them happy...so be it...go for it! Stopping gay marriage is not going to change their lifestyle one bit. They will still live together as a married couple so what's the difference.

There is supposed to be a separation between church and state so I cannot understand why religion keeps having such a strangle hold on the laws in our country. Not everyone is a Christian in our country!

Well, I am an unusual duck in that I *used* to be opposed to same sex marriage, but not on religious grounds. I am an Atheist. I am not anti-Christianity, or a devil worshipper, I just do not believe in what I perceive to be imaginary beings. To answer OP's original question, I now feel, after several years of contemplation, that all adults should be allowed to marry. No lightning bolt hit, but I was born in Tennessee in 1960 and grew up with old-fashioned beliefs and parents. Until the last few years most of my community, religious or not, disapproved of same sex marriage. I honestly believe that is changing as people realize it's not about a license or a piece of paper, it's the commitment and love involved. All humans should have the right to legal, civil marriages. As far as a religious ceremony and recognition, that should be left up to the individual churches. If a gay couple doesn't like their denomination's stance, they can work to change it or find a church more open to their values.

I apologize if my question came across as a demand or a request for a fight! That's about the furthest thing from my intent and I attempted to word my post very carefully to project that!

Since up until that point, all of us were of the same opinion, we weren't really learning from one another. I was simply curious as to what KellyJef's opinion was based on, so that I might be able to learn from it and better understand her perspective.

I know very few people in "real life" that are against gay civil unions/legal marriages. Most people I do know that are against gay marriage are against religious matrimony, and I understand that it's mostly based on religious doctrine. If we continue to allow each Faith to decide what is or is not right for their church/temple/mosque... then where do we still disagree?

I'm sorry if I mis-interpreted the intent of this thread. I wasn't viewing it as simply a poll, but rather as an opportunity to rationally discuss a topic that's very divisive! I don't post in The Cafe very often, but the lack of deals on LWIF has led me to read other portions of the site. I don't know anything about KellyJef's conservative views that have been previously expressed. No disrespect was intended.

Obviously, KellyJef is free to ignore my request to elaborate. I was simply letting her know that I was interested in hearing more!

You and I see things very similarly. I was raised in an open-minded home, but with Roman Catholic beliefs and traditions. When I was younger, I didn't understand the need for gay marriage and just generally thought that marriage was and always should be between a man and a woman.

However, as I matured I began to learn more about other people's needs, our country in general and our Constitution more specifically. I noticed that there was a need to not only allow, but encourage gay partners in loving, long term relationships to make that union legal. I mentioned some of those reasons in my first post.

So, for me my previous stance wasn't that I was against gay marriage per se, I was simply against change unless I felt that change was necessary. Perhaps that's why I am so interested in having an honest discussion of this topic- maybe if we can all see why it's necessary, then we can learn to accept change.

Reneebill also is well and yes like you said all of us did agree we were on the same page on to our views about gay marriage. I knew there would be some who are againist it and I did not mean any harm in my response back to yours to Marilyn. It would be nice to add both sides but I just do to want any bickering going back and forth, thanks for all your input. Peace. Catherine

Marilyn, I really appreciated your post.

And, I agree: over the years, I think we have both come to respect our differing opinions. As far as the "pretty not so nice exchanges", I do sincerely regret them.

I do not support gay marriage due to my religious beliefs. I think there are others here who do not support gay marriage but they may simply not want to express their opinion due to the overwhelming acceptance of gay marriage here.

It took me a long time to realize that the majority of us here want the same thing (generally speaking), we just don't agree on how to attain this goal. Doesn't mean that any of us our wrong in our beliefs--just different.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I 100% support gay marriage. I really have nothing else to add. I agree with all the points already said. If another couple gets married whatever they are ,what does that have to do with me? Why would it bother me? Who cares? Does it harm me at all? No. Who am I ,or the state for that matter, to tell them they can't. Churches I guess would be different. They would just have to find a church that is tolerant I guess.

No harm done! It seems there's quite a bit of "backstory" on this board that I wasn't privy to. Thanks for getting this conversation started!

Thank you so much for elaborating. I suspect that you are right about others remaining quiet about their beliefs. I am surprised to find how overwhelmingly accepting this board is of gay marriage. When I've peeked in from time to time, it always seemed like the majority of women were conservative in their views. Thanks for being the brave soul, willing to offer a dissenting opinion. It's the only way any of us will ever come to any type of understanding on any issue!

Well said!

I tend to be conservative in financial type matters and liberal on social issues but I consider myself more middle of the road.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I agree that nightowlrn said it best. I totally agree. ~Lisa

I agree. I started a reply several times and would never hit the submit because I didn't want to be the loner. In the past there has been some mighty bashing and flaming of those that have a different opinion.

To throw a different slant on things......I am opposed to marriage in general. I was married, now divorced for 10 years, and have come to see how outdated and overcommercialized the whole marriage thing is. Historically, it dates back to an age when women were not allowed to own property or inherit, they were seen as 'property' of the husband, dependent on his income, expected to stay home, make babies and keep hubby happy. Society has evolved so much that women are independent and able to support their own lifestyle. So, why is that piece of paper so important? I am in a domestic partnership, with a man, but financially we are better off NOT being married. We have all the benefits of a married couple without the expensive ceremony, the license fee, the rings, etc etc etc. I think it is just a way the state collects more fees from the public.......if anyone gives us the side-eye for 'living in sin'.....meh, who cares.

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"It's not about how much baggage you have, it's about whether or not you can carry your own baggage with grace and dignity."

Interesting perspective....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

To Jeeplady I would never ever say anything againist you for livng in sin, which I say as adults what you do is your own business. I do not think you need to be married or else you would be considered living in sin. For me however it does run deeper then just a piece of paper I love having his name and I love being married. I truly realize it is not for everyone and what ever makes you happy then more power to you. I do truly feel so sorry for women who today live in cultures where they are lower then rodents truly I would never ever stand for that and I deeply feel for them as others who are forced to marry someone they do not love. Peace. Catherine

You have valid points, however, unless you have made specific legal preparations allowed in the state you live in, (common law aside because you didn't mention if your state recognizes such) on paper in a legally acceptable form, you do not have all the benefits of a married couple. In both a medical situation and when a death occurs, neither of you are able to make decisions, it typically goes to an adult child, then parents, then adult siblings, then grandparents, then adult grandchildren, and so forth. If one of you dies intestate, the other will not inherit without a specific will stating such. That paperwork can be expensive vs. simply paying county fees and appearing before a judge or notary public. No one has to have rings or an expensive wedding.

Dependent upon your federal tax situation, married filing jointly is usually the most effective way to pay less in taxes. Many employers do not recognize insurance coverage for a domestic partner vs. a married couple. In your scope of the financial issues (and peace of mind) it can and will cost you more to not be married. Simply a few things for you to consider. I understand the not getting re-married, my mother never has either after her divorce.

dl

I honestly do not know why so many people worry about how others choose to live their lives. I think gay marriage should be legal and they should have the same rights as every other person on Earth. It really irritates me when people(mainly older or church people) try and inflict their beliefs on others or condemn those that do not hold to their ways. I have heard people say that if gay marriage was legalized it would send a wrong message to our children. To that I respond WTF? I don't know how what Joe Blow does down the street is going to effect my childs behavior. People don't choose to be gay! Just because my son sees a gay couple down the block does that mean he is going to be gay? NO it doesn't! I think we as a society spend entirely to much time worrying about what others are doing. If you don't like it fine, but it is not your place to judge. Equal rights for ALL!!!!!

Amen equal rights for all one and one thanks so much. Peace. Catherine

I have 2 save 10.00 off any 10.00 purchase any item at Kohls good till 9/25 looking for personal paypal of 7/26 for both to ilovelucy420@aol.com so plmk peace catherine

Love is hard enough to find anywhere for anyone. If two of the same sex are lucky enough to find a true lasting love...than to each their own. Who is anyone else to judge??

Mars364 wonderfully said Amen to that. Life is too short, God created us all and loves us all, it is no ones business being Gay or Straight or Bi whatever. Peace. Catherine

Excellent points.....I am fortunate enough to work for an employer that grants benefits to domestic partners, and we have done the legal paperwork to register our partnership. We have living wills, medical POA's, wills, etc.....our state does not recognize common law marriage. Another consideration is that the FAFSA for college students does not count his income for my college student daughter. We are not wealthy, but his income is twice mine, so her aid would be less---so not fair when he is nothing but a "legal stranger", even if we were married.

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"It's not about how much baggage you have, it's about whether or not you can carry your own baggage with grace and dignity."

I 100% support gay marriage.

I'm also a card carrying Southern Baptist girl

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Catt
~ Mirror Mirror on the wall, I am my mother - after all! ~

Mattcatt thanks for you comments I sincerely and deeply appreciate them all ,like I said I am a Catholic and feel very strong about many aspect of my religion but sorry people should be allowed to get married in the eyes of God and in the church they practice their religion. Peace. Catherine

I do not agree with same sex marriages. I am sorry, but it is pretty explicit in the Bible that it is wrong. I know some of you have relatives, friends etc.. that might be in one, and they have to live with that decision. I am not here to judge. I have no problems being friends with gay people, but I don't have to agree with that part of their life.

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Check out my homepage http://julie.mycoupons.com/

You are going to Hell for sure!

I'll save you a seat!

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Catt
~ Mirror Mirror on the wall, I am my mother - after all! ~