I do not want to start any trouble or fights on here, so I am hoping we can keep this civil. I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the idea of an Islamic mosque being built 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

I don't think they should build it in that area, not because I don't want them to have one, but because of the area they chose. If it were further away, I'd have no problem with them building one. I do not blame all Muslims for what happened on Sept. 11, however out of respect for those who died, I think they should look elsewhere to build their mosque. I also think that before they even considered the plans to build one in that location, they should have spoken to the family members of those who perished that day to see what their feelings were.

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~~~~**Maryann**~~~~

I just got a firm grip on reality....
Now I can strangle it

Christine I was going to start this thread as well but ya beat me to it lol. Well since it started I will add I personally am againist it. I honestly do not want to step on anyones toes for their religious beliefs and totally believe people of all different religions and faiths should have their right to practice and place to practice. Now of course these people did not commit the crimes of the 9/11 attacks, however I feel that the area where the buliding once stood to me is a very scacred memoria site and where many many people loss their loved ones and friends and it should be left alone. If a mosque is to be built it should be built but further away not there again my personal views... Peace. Catherine

My feelings exactly. If I had lost someone on 9/11 or somehow directly experienced personal loss or tremendous fear for my life that day the last thing I would want to see is a Mosque. It would be far worse even if I had to pass it every day on my way to a work where I quaked in fear each day as I climbed the stairs or rode the elevator to a high floor to do my job wondering when the other shoe was going to drop.

I know that not all Muslims are terrorists I only know that extremists use their religion as an excuse to justify their actions.

I am afraid of the extremists they seem hell bent on killing all of us and they are dangerous.

Why would they even want to put it there when it appears there is so much opposition? If I was going to put up a church or any place of worship where I wanted people to gather in love and unity I certainly wouldn't go where I was obviously unwanted.

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You all have said it better than I could. I will add that considering some of the 9/11 terrorists used a mosque in Germany to meet and discuss their plans, I find the choice of this location disturbing. The extremists have made their intentions clear. If they wanted to stick it to this country again, I would imagine they'd take great pride in saying the plans were hatched just outside of the WTC site.

As for not lumping all Muslims together, where are the voices of American Muslims against the choice of this site for their mosque? The polls are saying that over 50% of people in this country want it built some where else. If some are speaking out against it, I must have missed it.

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How far away is an acceptable distance?

Should we discourage Catholics from building churches in the same neighborhood as schools, since so may boys were abused by priests?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

If there were thousands of boys in one neighborhood (or in the same school) were abused by a priest then yes I would say the same thing: not in that neighborhood. It's inappropriate.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

What's the cut off point - numerically? It has to be a thousand or more people impacted? I'm not trying to pick a fight - I'm just trying to understand the reasoning.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Legally--they have the right.

BUT, I think it's in poor taste and don't support their decision to exercise their right.
And a part of me wonders if it is just being built to thumb their noses at the people or show the world that they can do what they want.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I agree with Marilyn...they have the right but it's in VERY poor taste.

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I absolutely believe that IS the reason they are insistent on using that particular location

I don't have a specific answer for you. Each case is different. It's in very poor taste and I also believe that a big part of the reason is just as was stated they want to show the world their presence and for us to be reminded each day of the attacks.


Would you put a statue honoring Hitler in a Jewish neighborhood?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I wouldn't put a statue honoring Hitler anywhere.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

You know what I mean I wouldn't put a mosque anywhere.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

No, I really don't know what you mean. Are you saying you would deny Muslim's the right to a place of worship?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

For one anyone who would decide to erect a statue of Hitler any where would be sooooooo wrong God forbid. Moving on I would never want to deny anyone their rights to come to place and pray and practice their religion. However again for me personally wrong so wrong and I assume and I hate that word but for the President I feel he is a tight position and does not want to step on any one particular toes or religious beliefs however again I am sorry I live in New York about 50 minutes from where the attacks occurred. I went to those buildings so many times .Again where those buildings once stood to be is a memorial buriel ground and no mosque should be erected there and honestly I also believe no buildings should ever be built on that ground where so many innocent lives were lost and where so many people laid their loved ones and friends at their final resting spot.. Very sad all around, we all as a nation to always honor and remember those who lost their lives and live that place alone. Peace. Catherine

I'm surprised they would even want to build a mosque there.Knowing all that happened in that area, you would think they would be afraid of it getting bombed.Makes me think they are doing it intentionally to stir up more war.

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So basically what you all are all saying is that all Muslims are responsible for the bombing on 9/11? Am I hearing this correctly? So if a Radical Christian based group was responsible for a bombing here in the United States then a Christian based chapel would be inappropriate near the bombing?

I think this all boils down to Christians believing that their's is the only religion that counts here in the United States, never mind that there are close to 10 million Muslims living here in the United States!

I wonder how many Muslims were killed in the 9/11 attack?

[quote=xpcandy;3418773]So basically what you all are all saying is that all Muslims are responsible for the bombing on 9/11? Am I hearing this correctly? QUOTE]

I did not say that all Muslims were responsible for the bombing on 9/11, what I feel is that their decision to put a mosque in that location is in poor taste. If they want a mosque in NYC so bad, then why in that location where they know that it will start controversy, why can't they build it on the other side of Manhattan? Why do they want that location so badly?

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~~~~**Maryann**~~~~

I just got a firm grip on reality....
Now I can strangle it

I think it would be in very poor taste if they built a building for the Tali ban to meet and to follow Osama. What's the big deal if people that are Muslim's want to go and pray near the 9/11 bombing? How is that controversial? I would say that if you think it's controversial than that is discrimination.

Nope just saying "I" would not build a mosque. But there's lots of things I wouldn't build.








Nope you're not hearing us correctly. We are saying it's in poor taste to build a mosque near a sensitive area where some Muslims killed many people (but not as many as they'd hoped to). And mosques have been used to plan other atrocities. We're scared for our lives and our way of life. There are many Muslim extremists in the world who speak out loudly that "us" "we" "Americans" are the devil incarnate. They even think that by indiscriminately killing us there's a place in Paradise waiting for them with virgins. I don't see or hear any Muslims speaking out saying "ours is a religion of love and inclusiveness". I don't see or hear them saying much of anything. If a group of Catholics interpreted something in the Church to go out and start killing a whole country of people many Catholics would speak out against it and explain to people the real meaning of Catholicism.

Christians have nothing against non Christians. Maybe in the Middle Ages but I don't know anyone who hates people (and wants to kill them all) simply because they're non Christians.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

So you seriously believe those crazy asses that bombed the twin towers represent Muslims as a whole group. You are trying to say no...but then what you say says differently. I have heard Muslims on TV say that those extremist DO NOT represent the Muslim religion.

Because I do not believe by the any religion it's easy for me to sit back and see that Christian's and other religions are against this Mosque because they do not believe the way they do. What I see is that most people's religious beliefs are based upon where the grew up and how they were raised. Each religion believes that there's is the one true way to believe, all others will go the "hell"...whatever their religion's form of hell or hell like place.

*snort*
Well, xpcandy--you're incorrect about me! I'm agnostic.

I just think it's a poor decision on the part of the Muslim "congregation" to want to build their church there.

Considering that the city of New York/Port Authority has stymied efforts to rebuild the Greek Orthodox church that was actually DESTROYED on 9/11? Yeah, I think there's something hinky going on w/ the whole deal. Has nothing to do w/ what religion I *might* ascribe to, has everything to do with what I perceive as right vs. wrong.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

That just makes no sense in the context of this discussion. No one is asking if you would physically build a mosque or anything else.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

To xpcandy I personally do not believe any sort of any type of religious building or temple, or mosque or catholic church or any relgious building should be built by ground zero no way no how. As far as what Annadrose said it is no secret that muslims and their religious beliefs are so different. Again I personally do not want to step on any ones religious toes or views, but that being said what I find so unbelievable is the amount of time they spend praying over and over several times aday, but even with all their praying alot of them would think nothing of killing and sacriface their own lifes because they believe they will be taken care of in the afterlife and some of them its no big deal, if this was not true we would not have all the suicide bombers we do . We also would not have all the bombing of buildings and cars and people and houses. Alot of many middle eastern countries are shambles of ruin and rumble from the constant acts of suicide bombs, so with this knowlegde alone do you still feel comfortable with having a mosque being built at ground zero. Again I am catholic and there is no way ever I would ever consider to become an extremist and end my life to be a suicide bomber. Again this is not mean't for all Muslims and their religion as I will always believe there is bad and good in all walks of life. Peace. Catherine

Islam is the second largest religion in the WORLD, only slightly smaller amount of followers than Christianity which is the largest religion in the World.

I don't think that suicide bombers represent Muslims as a whole.

No matter what you think I do NOT believe all Muslims are bad people or terrorists. If that's how you interpret what I'm saying then you're incorrect.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

It isn't a Mosque. It isn't being built at Ground Zero. There already IS a Mosque near Ground Zero that was built before the Towers were built.


msnbc.com Video Player

Everyone should watch that video posted by reannag and get educated before you make assumptions! They are building that in an area that no one else wants...the real estate is unwanted and sits vacant and is selling for dirt cheap as far as NYC goes. Maybe it will bring some life to that ghost town area!

I'm for freedom of religion, but also for respecting the memories of the fallen and this is simply in poor taste. Also, who is funding this? What are his connections to terrorist groups? What about his comments about 9/11? Why would any group of GOOD Muslim people want to build a mosque here? Lots of questions...the answers are not good. There isn't even a Muslim community in that area. It's the Financial District, for cryin' out loud. This isn't about "Freedom of Religion". It's a political statement from Obama. I'm hoping the Steel Workers union in NY will not put one ounce of steel in that building. You can't build it without a proper structure and steel. They can build other places..this is backed by funds from those that want to proclaim this as a victory site. Why else would they choose this location? ~Lisa

Great post, Lisa.

Maybe you should watch that video, I think some of your questions will be answered. I can't see how building a community center would be disrespecting anyone! There is already a small mosque, not nearly large enough for the Muslim community in NYC and there are already several Christian based churches. I guess it's OK to be prejudice in this country if it involves religion.

very well put Lisa.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I don't agree with any of this! Just shows that prejudice is alive and well in our Country!

I don't get why you keep insisting we're prejudiced. Because I have interacted with some of these people outside of this site and I can guarantee you that they aren't and I am not. Not by a long shot.

You can keep saying it over and over and that still won't make it true.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

If it's not prejudice, then what the heck is it? I guess it's OK for people to be whatever religion they want to be just don't let the Christians see you doing it and stay the heck away from the Christians while you are doing it. I guess they should find some underground caves to worship in so the Christians can't see it.

You're translating the meaning of what we're saying in your mind because you don't comprehend the why of it. Nobody has said "kill all Muslims. We're superior to Muslims." or anything like what the KKK says about people. We are simply opposed to a Mosque being built at that particular site. Nobody here has said "No mosques in America". So how do you get prejudice out of sensitivity?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I've read all the posts and I've still seen no answer as to what distance from the bombing is acceptable. Is three blocks away far enough? Four? What is the line of acceptance?

Try watching the video and maybe you'll understand. There is a Catholic church a few blocks from Ground Zero - why aren't you clammoring for that to be torn down? What about the strip clubs a few blocks from Ground zero? It would really help if those who are screaming "no Mosque at Ground Zero!" knew what the hell they were talking about.

Really? You sure are be condescending....
Some of us do know WTF we are talking about!

Funny, but no one that "agrees" with the Mosque at Ground Zero, has addressed the Greek Orthodox church issue. Hmmm....interesting.



Doesn't alter my opinion that I think it's in poor taste. You know, kind of like the the KKK building a community center next door to Morgan State University. I mean, it would be a community center! The KKK "could" be good for the community and not create any controversy beside a historically black college.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

they have the right to build it there, but since it is supposed to be something about interfaith understanding i think that they should choose a different location out of respect and understanding for peoples feelings, that might strengthen the interfaith relations.
this is just like pouring gas on fire, just like burning the quran day...

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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

A political statement from Obama? Do you believe that President Obama is a Muslim? How is this private development a statement by our President? This project began in 1999 with the attempt to purchase a former YMCA. It has nothing to do with politics or the current administration.

I keep reading about "a mosque AT Ground Zero." No one is planning that. There are plans to build a community center, which includes a mosque, at a site 2 blocks away from ground zero. It's an old, abandoned Burlington Coat Factory store and a former substation. Those buildings are sitting vacant, and for the last year have been used as a prayer space by this group. As you can see by the video reannag posted, people visiting Ground Zero will never see Park51.

And, yes- The Masjid Manhattan is currently four blocks from Ground Zero. It's simply too small for the Muslim community's needs and they are hoping to build a larger center in a space that is undesired and inexpensive. If their plans are thwarted, the buildings will continue as an eyesore. They are not part of Ground Zero's land and are not a burial place for anyone who perished in the attacks on 9/11.

I'm not Muslim and I do not know any Muslims personally, but your comparison is insulting. Muslims are peaceful people who believe in a particular faith. True, there are many Extremists that believe in the Muslim Faith and use their beliefs to justify violence. The same could be said for Christians who bomb abortion clinics. I do not judge Christianity based on the Crusades or King Henry's reign or fundamentalists that kill abortion doctors or picket at the gravesites of US soldiers. There has been entirely too much blood shed in the name of religion, from all Faiths. I try to remember that there is good and bad in everything. All Faiths are protected equally under US law.

The Greek Orthodox issue seems to be an issue of public funding. No one has denied the church the right to re-build, but the two sides can't seem to agree on how much public money is appropriate. It's an entirely separate issue that really doesn't have much relevance here.

exactly!!!

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Are you serious????

Were the 9/11 terrorists Catholics and strippers

Are you deliberately trying to be obtuse and argumentative?

Honestly, though, I am not worried that a mosque will be built: I don't believe for one second that it will ever materialize in that location

For the last time where those building once stood is a scared buriel ground where many innocent lives were lost, nothing should be built there except for a memorial site where the loved ones can come and visit and pray and offer their respects for their loved ones both family and friends and for all our fallen heroe's period. If anyone feels any type of a religious building should be built let it be built else where and that goes for any and all I am not againist any. Period. Peace as we come again to another anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Catherine

For probably not the last time. Where the Trade Center buildings stood is two blocks from the site being discussed. There is, or will be a memorial at that location.

A run-down previous Burlington Coat Factory building a couple of blocks away is not going to have droves of 911 worshipers flocking to their door.

And calling all those who died heroes is a bit of a stretch too. If you got caught in a flood and drowned, does that make you a hero? Just because you were at the wrong place at the wrong time with thousands of others does not afford you automatic hero status. And I'm not saying there were no heroes, just that not everyone who died was one. They were mostly just ordinary people going about their daily lives and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Which brings me back to the question you are all ignoring. How far from the Towers is enough to be "non hallowed" ground? And who is to determine that? And how hallowed is it to be? Can they use it for a Burger King, a hotel, a Christian community center, a toy store? I'm sure all the property owners for blocks around would like to know. Or is the only restriction anything to do with Muslims?

Again, this is not about freedom of religion, any bonehead, (even Obama) knows Muslims have a constitutional right to build a place of worship where local ordinances dictate. The question here is how is this project being funded? Additionally, the imam heading up the project stated he would accept money from Iran, Hamas and other terror sponsoring groups, is this the type of peaceful Muslim we want in our communities? The sheer volume of mosques in New York and elsewhere is testament to America and its freedoms. I think it is shameful that people bring up racism in these discussions but if you have no other card to play I guess you play that stupid card. Since so many of the 9-11 bodies were not recovered I look at this location as sacred ground, a graveyard of fallen Americans. I'd be in favor of turning a mile stretch of the area into a memorial to the fallen. Most of the 9-11 families are against this project. Certainly, good Muslims can understand why? Another point for naysayers to consider is this: Christians aren't allowed to build a church anywhere in most of their countries, where is the tolerance there? If I'm not mistaken this imam has gone as far to say Americans caused 9-11 and that America needs to sharia compliant (if you don't know what that means look it up. Here is a hint...if you are a woman you ain't gonna like it...This imam sounds like a radical to me. Interestingly enough, the Obama Administration is actually paying this imam to travel to the Middle East on the taxpayers dime to preach "tolerance". It sounds like he is traveling on the taxpayers dime to get donations. Right now, he has approximately 16 thousand dollars toward this multi-million dollar project according to published reports. There are peaceful, American Muslims opposed to this project as well. Wake up America! ~Lisa

It's sacred ground so it would be OK to build a church then I'm assuming as long as it's a Christian based church right? I'd love to know where you are seeing all this credible information about this man getting funding from terrorists. Off the Sarah Palin website?...HAHAHAHA! Off the anti-Obama web site most likely.

A judge in New Jersey denied a woman a restraining order from her exhusband because of this shariah.Her husband had been forcing her to have sex with him while she cried.Thankfully the Judge that ruled it was overturned by the Appellate Court.

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Seriously, where do you people find all this crap? Provide a link to this information. A person can find anything on the internet and justs because you've read it on the internet does not mean it's real or true. My Momma always said, don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see.

Sharia Law Comes to New Jersey? | The FOX Nation
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/05...judges-ruling/

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ts_sharia.html

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

What does this have to do with a mosque being built a few blocks from the 9-11 site?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I think I know why no one posts here anymore...the stupidity is overwhelming! HA!

Really?
You post here quiet a bit---so I guess that makes you just as stupid as anyone else.

We don't have to agree. But, there is no need to be rude, condescending and just plain mean.

It's my opinion that building a mosque that close to ground zero is in poor taste. Sure, they have the legal right to do so, but it doesn't mean they should.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"