What does everyone think of the new scanners and pat down procedures?
I'm total against both.
No stranger has a right to look at me or anyone, especially kids, naked or to touch peoples genitals. If this was done by anyone else, they would be arrested or sued.
I also can't believe they claim that the x-rays from the machine are harmless. Doctors are always telling people not to get x-rays unless absolutely necessary.
So what do you think?
Judy

Oh, my family and I won't be flying anytime soon. We decide that when the airline started nickle and diming(sp?) us to death. That was bad enough, but now they want to invade our 4th amendment rights.

The TSA and Homeland Secuirty both are, and have been out of control. We teach our children to not let strangers touch them and then this? It's no better for adults to experience it. Janet Reno is considering exempting Muslim women. Ridiculous. It should be all or none, and I prefer none. Besides, what's to say who is a Muslim woman?

Their "known shipper" status requirement for business was a soft, easy thing to do once you kept at it. The 100% mandatory screening of all cargo is a total joke. They didnt' take a lot of things into consideration and are turning it over to private contractors and business. The control measures and record keeping are monstrous and I think the more in on this, the more potential for problems.

Homeland Security, imo, is simply trying to keep their division and jobs. The "known shipper" and 100% screening are feel good measures that outwardly make it look like they are worthy and that we need them more and more. Just like the person who reconfigures the stores periodically to keep their job, I see the same in Homeland Security ..... come up with something to dazzle us with so we think we need them ...... and in realiy it was poorly planned, doesn't being results, was introduced before they were prepared, and does not do what they touted.

dl

ps. I can't imagine doing "enhanced security checks" aka improper groping all day on all kinds of people............disgusting even with double gloves.

dl

You and the ACLU are on the same page:
Airport Security | American Civil Liberties Union

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Just one more step closer to a socialist society. Another one of our freedoms taken from us. Either consent to the xray or groping or don't fly. This is exactly the type of control that Obama wants.

Don't like the policy? Then do something about it. Join the ACLU.

Not sure how you connect this to socialism. I suspect you just don't like Obama and throwing socialism into the mix seems like a good barb - but it makes no sense. Socialism, according to Merriam Webster's is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods."

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Horsehockey!

I disagree. He could perhaps tie himself io their "feel good" propaganda by taking credit for adding even more jobs and supposedly lowering unemployment with all the folks working in Homeland Security and TSA.

There are too many and the layers multiple. As I stated above, it's all about keeping their FEDERAL jobs now, whether they are productive or not. If they do nothing, someone could realize we don't need them. If they periodically come up with something else ( even as pathetic as invasive full body screening and groping) then they think everyone will think they are outstanding and we can't do without them.

When did it become a crime to buy a ticket and fly on an airplane? Seems now it is since you must submit to one or the other - what is happening to our 4th Amendment rights? ? ? ?

dl

Hard to blame Obama for the TSA. It originated under GW Bush.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is an agency of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security responsible for security in all modes of transportation in the U.S.[1]

The TSA was created as part of the Aviation and Transportation Security Act passed by the U.S. Congress, and signed into law by President George W. Bush on November 19, 2001. Originally organized in the U.S. Department of Transportation, the TSA was moved to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 25, 2003.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I believe there is a bill being introduced or perhaps already introduced, written by a Dem and Rep. to make the body scanning mandatory for all flights. Well except for Congress probably.

And I don't understand where they are getting the figures that the public is going along with this? They didn't ask me and I don't like it.

I didn't like much that Bush did and I'm beginning to think that Homeland Security may be his second worst decision. I get patted down each time I fly because I have a hip replacement. So far it's embarrassing, but not too intrusive. Now the pat downs include them putting their hands in your pants at times, and feeling your breasts at other times. What do they do when they encounter incontinence pads? One commentator said that you can tell if a man was circumcised. I don't know if he was joking but, I don't find it funny. People with breast enlargements, colostomy bags, catheters, all deserve to have the ability to travel on a plane without the humiliation of going through an xray that expose health and other things that they might want to, and have the right, to keep to themselves. All this a aside from the fact that children are being groped and exposed to radiation, with no one able to state whether the radiation is a problem. I would think airline flight crews might become a little upset at being exposed to that radiation in addition to their everyday exposure while flying. How much is too much and when is enough enough?

Ahh, but I didn't blame Obama. In my first sentence, I said perhaps he could tie himself to it - with a spin in a positive way. I also said it's out of control. It is.

dl

Why would you say that unless you were trying to plant the idea that Obama is somehow to blame for the TSA? You could just have easily said, "Perhaps Sarah Palin could tie herself to it - with a spin in a positive way."

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Your attempts are lacking. and you are wrong in going backwards to try and pull something out of my post that simply was not there. I am not the poster who mentioned Obama. In FACT, I rarely mention policitians in my posts. If I thought Obama were at fault, I would have said such, I would not have danced around it.

Again, it is obvious I didn't blame him for the TSA. Again, I said he could tie himself to it, in a positive way. I will now respond to your Palin comment and that is, she has no relevance regarding this thread - none. You decided to drag her in.

The TSA / Homeland Security are responsible for themselves. Most obviously in their weak attempts at "known shipper" status and 100% cargo security checks, and now with the invasive, 4th amendment right violations of search with the whole body scan and groping, errr enhanced patdowns.

dl

Oh, Okay.

Here's an interesting figure:

The TSA grew from 13 employees in January 2002 to 65,000 a year later (on GW Bush's watch).

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I get pulled aside "randomly" and searched EVERY SINGLE TIME I fly. I asked them what it is about me what am I doing to make this happen. I said please tell me so I won't do it anymore. "Oh it's just random ma'am". BS! Somehow they are profiling me and I don't know why. It's ridiculous. I get a gloved hand stuck up my crotch and in my butt cheeks and she feels my boobs. I either submit or I don't fly.
Security? BS! It gives the appearance of security. Have you heard of any things they've found? Is there even one single story about how they stopped someone from doing something?
And the 3 oz liquid rule is a joke! If they have liquid explosives or whatever they can split them between several 3 oz bottles and do what they're going to do. Meanwhile the rest of us have to pay out the nose for airport bottled water or dehydrate.
I have taken almost 30 different airplanes in the last few months and going through security is a nightmare. I have talked to people who literally refuse to fly because of all this.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I get pulled aside "randomly" and searched EVERY SINGLE TIME I fly. I asked them what it is about me what am I doing to make this happen. I said please tell me so I won't do it anymore. "Oh it's just random ma'am". BS! Somehow they are profiling me and I don't know why. It's ridiculous. I get a gloved hand stuck up my crotch and in my butt cheeks and she feels my boobs. I either submit or I don't fly.
Security? BS! It gives the appearance of security. Have you heard of any things they've found? Is there even one single story about how they stopped someone from doing something?
And the 3 oz liquid rule is a joke! If they have liquid explosives or whatever they can split them between several 3 oz bottles and do what they're going to do. Meanwhile the rest of us have to pay out the nose for airport bottled water or dehydrate.
I have taken almost 30 different airplanes in the last few months and going through security is a nightmare. I have talked to people who literally refuse to fly because of all this.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Well I am not happy with it at all and if it means that this will happen then I will not fly it is againist our rights out and out. It has gotten so bad for everyone to fly . Our ex president Bush started a war to keep our country safe from any future terrorist attacks , and honestly truly nothing has changed, if we truly , truly we not on our guard something tragic would definitely would happened already, in the past 10 years there have been many times where people have tried. It is a known fact acts of terrorism will always exist there is no way to ever get rid of the extremists never ever. So now we are still at war and millions and millions of innocent lives have been lost with so much bloodshed in a worn torn country. Now President Obama promised to remove the troops they are still there and frankly and honestly I do not think anyone has the power to remove them. Also if they do and we retreat I dearly fear for that country and what will happen to our troops and and I know a new Saddam will come into power and that country will return to the way it was sadly . Was has happened to our country that we have so much fear to fly and now to go through all this security because of all these acts of terrorism , what will come next a full body cavity search terrible and truly sad ............No peace here only for our troops and for the people of Iraq...

Well, one solution would be to have one whole airline with NO Security! Anyone, anytime, anyhow.....get on and fly! Who would want to fly that airline? Not me....

I agree the pat downs are over blown but then I think being a TSA agent would suck.....I would not want to be groping peoples junk all day long!

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"It's not about how much baggage you have, it's about whether or not you can carry your own baggage with grace and dignity."

Catherine, I do have to challenge you on your assertion that 'millions and millions' have died in our Middle Eastern conflicts.

According to the Democrat and Chronicle, the US military casualty total is under 6,000. Various sources around the web clock the Iraqi civillian and military toll at between 100K - 150K. Those deaths are not all attributable to US forces. Many are, but there have also been skirmishes between a number of militanat subgroups against each other and against civillians.

I have had a very difficult time finding numbers for those killed in the conflict in Afganistan, primarily because most of the deaths that have occurred since we have had a presence there are the result of Taliban violence and not US-led conflict. 2008 was the year in which the greatest number of civillian deaths occurred (2,118), and again, they were not primarily attributable to US forces. They were primarily the result of Taliban violence against the Afgani people.

According to Wikipedia's article on the Taliban, over one million Afghanis were killed in the twenty year period the Taliban reigned over their nation, therefore, our presence there has very, very dramatically slowed the deaths of Afghan citizens.

Here's a statistic I find shocking:

As I mentioned above, the total number of US casualties from the nearly ten years of war in Iraq and Afganistan is fewer than 6,000.

And last week, Mexico surpassed the 10,000th victim mark for the year 2010 alone in it's internal struggle with their Mexican Drug Cartel.

Regarding the TSA, I honestly don't know what the answer is. We spend a lot of time focused on airplanes, and for good reason. I'm not bothered by the fact that overnight Bush took us from a privatized screening system to a governmental one, simply because before we did not recognize the threat and in the height of our frenzied concern, Uncle Sam did need to fully coordinate what had previously been haphazard, non-uniform screening processes. However, now that it's been almost ten years post-9/11, I would hope that we'd be closer to perfecting our processes and that we could put more of this back in the hands of private companies.

Regardless, on any given weekend day football stadiums have far more people in them than planes. The Murrah building, even early in the workday, contained about as many people as a jet would. I wish I had an answer... but I don't.

I'm sure there would be people willing to fly without security, but I'd be curious if any pilots or flight attendants would sign up for that airline! LOL!

Lisa

__________________
"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Has anyone seen or heard of anyone being stopped or anything being prevented? I haven't and I really believe that the people who are going to do something are at least three steps ahead of whatever security precautions are being taken.
I would certainly feel a lot better if I knew of something being stopped. I see a lot of middle aged women being stopped and searched. It gets old when they keep picking you out of a line of hundreds of people.
I understand the need for security don't get me wrong. I just think they're going about it the wrong way. We need to profile. Forget about being PC.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Wowitsdark perhaps millions is a wrong figure of the amount of people killed, how about the number of people injured for the rest of their lifes and it does not matter whether it is 1 or a million, we are talking about human lifes here, you write just under 6,000 like no big deal only 6,000 honestly really????. I know our views on the war are very different so we are not going to agree and I admitted in my post about Obama still not carrying out his mission on bringing our troops home, do you honestly feel totally safe here in America that our troops are still there , do you honestly think we will be able to retreat and what will happen over there to those people and further more, what retaliation will those people take out on our country when we leave if ever??? please answer thanks so much. Peace. Catherine

I did not say 6,000 is not a big deal.

But it is a fraction of 'millions and millions'.

Does it mean anything to you that there literally WERE millions and millions of Afgan citizens killed in the twenty years leading up to our presence there, which has had an enormous impact on the ability of the Taliban to recruit and desimate people?

wow did not triviialize that number - by any stretch of the imagination. wow is very factual and her thought process is clear. This thread was (and still should be) about TSA security HERE in the USA, not about your constant push to blame a former President for the war which you are again doing.

Even if every single US troop were home on our soil, we wouldn't feel totally safe (imo) because our troops do not work fo rthe TSA. Your question(s) are not based on a clear thought process and not totally applicable to this thread.

dl

Interestingly, from what I read, Iraq and perhaps Afganistan keep records of 'casualties', not necessarily 'deaths'. That means their numbers include both those who were killed and those who were injured.

Dl once again same story with you each and every time I post something nothing ever changes........Go back okay someone else first mentioned Bush and Obama first not me and then I mentioned them okay I have the right okay DL.... and I what I wrote was just as clear as anyone else here, but because it is me you will always choose to pick on my comments nothing changes. I stand firm Bush entered into a war we had no business at all plain and simple and now so many people have lost their lives and so many people have been left seriously injured for the rest of their lifes. Finally if you did not notice I did not praise Obama at all, I repeated it for now the third time he did not carry out his promise to remove our troops and bring them home. Our country still remains under threat and that is why we must have all this heighten security checks at airports. To wowitsdark or I rather speak to I sincerely know you did not mean to speak unkindly and say that a figure like 6,000 is not a big deal, on my part wrong choice of words sorry for that. What I really wanted to say was that no matter what for me anyway and personally the war was wrong no matter what one life or a million lifes look where we are , we are none safer and it is a truly scary thought that we as Americans have to live like this. Furthermore to be forced to endure these treatments at airports just to fly to enjoy a vacation or visit a love one not fair not right.. Peace. Catherine

Lucy, on what basis do you say that we are no safer today than we were before?

We thought we were safe on 9/10, but we weren't safe at all. We were unaware and unengaged.

1993: A car loaded with 1,200 lbs of explosives blew up in a parking garage underneath the World Trade Center. Six were killed. 1000 were injured.

1995: Five Americans and two Indians were killed in Riyadh, Saudia Arabia when a van exploded outside an American-run training center.

1996: 5,000 lbs of explosives were in a booby trapped truck that pulled up to the Khobar Towers in Saudia Arabia where US military personel were being housed. 19 Americans were killed. 300 were wounded.

1998: Car bombs exploded outside the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, killing 224 and wounding 5,000.

2000: Two suicide bombers blew a hole in the side of the USS Cole, killing 17 and wounding 37.

And many believe McVeigh had Middle Eastern ties.

We spent a lot of years letting terrorists randomly attack US military, diplomatic, and civillian individuals and property. With each of those incidents, the hope on the part of the terrorists was that many more would have been killed than actually were.

Clinton engaged in tit for tat with them in small ways. I don't know that he or anyone else had a clue that they were capable of actually pulling off the mass destruction they did on 9/11.

These individuals - these terrorists - were being trained in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, places in which we had no engagement at all to speak of. We weren't over there actively trying to seek out the people who wanted to do us harm and break up their activities. We were not on a large scale doing things that would catch them if they got on our jetliners with ill intent. We let a posse of them come into our country and attend OUR flgiht schools and use the knowlege and skills they learned there to kill our people.

They were already mad at us. They hated us when Bill Clinton was our president. They hated us when Bush was our president. All the cries of, "Bush was hated by them and he just made it worse!!!" fall on deaf ears to me, because their hatred for America started long before Bush came into office. If they had been successful in '93 we might not have had a catastrophic attack on our soil 9/11 because perhaps Clinton would have engaged them differently. We will never know... because they didn't hit us hard enough for our entire nation to get behind some massive plan to combat the threat.

None of the attempted airline disasters such as those involving the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber originated with a US airport. They were coming here from another country. That tells me our screeners have been doing a job sufficient enough that the terrorists either haven't gotten through or quit trying to get to us using airplanes and are plotting something much different while we're busy going through the Super Naked XRay Machines.

I wish I knew what the answer was. I don't know if there is one. I do know that what we've been doing since 9/11 seems to have slowed down the crazy buildup of violence that was occurring pre-9/11. I also know that people intent on doing harm can probably find a way to pull it off eventually.

YouTube - #w00tstock Seattle: Adam Savage says "WTF, TSA?"

kinda an example of how well their searches are working

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My other favorites
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I first have to say to you Wowitsdark you only brought up a mere few of the countless thousands of suicide and car and outdoor and train and bus and public and plane bombings. I am not going to go crazy because I cannot remember each and every one no one could possibly do that. So I simply googled a bit and found this and I want to start with first and foremost, I travel alot about 3 0r 5 times a year in the states and internationally as well. I never have had to show my passport and drivers liscense so many times. I never ever having remember to remove my belt all my jewelry my socks same goes for my husband but okay I am fine with that. Now I what about the liquid suituation nothing can be brought onto the plane anything containing a liquid size more then 3.4 ounces??. Okay then I have these...
7/4/2002 An Egyptian gunman opens fire at a El Al ticket counter helper in L.A International Airport Killing 2 Israelis before being killed himself, if he had the chance to get on that place who knows what would have happened.
March 4, 2003 In the Phillippines Bomb Attack in their Airport in Davao kills 21
Dec 24, 2003 Three Air France Flights bound for Lax International Airport in L>A. were cancalled because of fears that terrorists groups would be aboard these flights, however French commandos intervened and were successful in preventing the incident.
1994 A group of men from the Algerian group from GIA Hijacked the Air France Flight 8969 and intended to crash it into the Eiffel Towel.. Now Wowitsdark I realize these are just a few, however like I said I sat here before and googled Terrorist attacks after 9/11 and the pages go on and on and you cannot tell me we are any safer. We are not, and if given chance these terrorist would attack us anywhere, anyplace , anytime , and that is a fact if you take the time to read all the attacks I just read . To them they do not care they are killing themselves or taking so many lives with them . Nothing as changed and again this war did not change these people will continue to be terrorists forever... I honestly do not know if I should write peace... Catherine

Lucy, this post is supposed to be about the TSA and it's new search procedures not the war.
Even though the TSA started under Bush, it's now up to the CURRENT President to fix the problems, which he isn't doing. Like many of our politicians, he's turned his back on the common people.
There are more effective ways to check for bombs or bomb making supplies. Try sniffer dogs or sniffer equipment. Those items won't hurt you. Well, maybe the dog might bite but that's better than radiation poisoning(we won't be able to tell if the machines are working properly).
How about proper profiling?
Jeeplady, no one is saying do away with security. We want security that works!

For the people who think what the TSA is doing is correct, what about when someone smuggles a bomb on board internally? Are you ok with body cavity searches or maybe xrays like the hospitals use? When is enough, enough? Are you willing to let the police do these types of things to everyone they stop, including speeding tickets? After all, you are more likely to die in a car accident than be blown out of the sky(using the old techniques at the airport).

I could go on & on about this. Our country is slowly turning away from what made us great and there are many people willing to let it go in the name of safety.
Judy

Judy I agree with you about our current President concerning the war with the fact that we are still there, and while we are talking about security measures with this particular topic, we entered into this war under our ex president Bush to keep this country safe and we are not safe, if you truly, and I mean truly feel safe the bless you , because I do not . Do you ever think about when and if and wish someone would please answer this question when we do remove all our troops what will happen to that country and what will happen to our country???. Thanks in advance. Now peace can be said. Catherine

Catherine (ilovelucy), please stay on topic. TSA security!!! If you want to talk about the war, start your own post
Judy

Goodness knows you are right Judy, but it's only me who isn't allowed to even suggest she stay on topic of the thread. This is a constant with her and others mention it too. She just doesn't get it. Most likely, she will respond to me, telling me I've proved something again and ignore you.....

You are more than right.

dl

Excuse but here we go again, but have we not had before and will have again we someone did start a thread and we did go off topic???. Also to add to that it is not like talking about homeland security and the reasons for it because of acts of terrorism and what happended on 9/11 and then our ex President Bush entering into war does not go together really??. Oh well. Again nothing changes with you DL but again I should not be suprised and I know you not with me either. So there.. Bottom line no matter how tough homeland security becomes our country can never be to protected because sadly terrorism will always exist and that is a very sad fact of life... Peace. Catherine

9/11 does have a place in the discussion regarding TSA.

Bush and "his" decision to engage our country in a war does not have a place in the discussion.

That being said: I have refrained from commenting on your literacy, but OMG! You sound like an illiterate woman when you can't even string together a complete sentence. And what you present as sentences are so haphazard and full of errors that most people struggle to understand the thought you are trying to convey...

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I'm still wondering if anyone has heard of anything being stopped or any weapons being found because of these searches. It's my opinion that these measures are being taken simply to make the public believe that something is being done. I will admit that "regular" criminals don't go to airports anymore to pickpocket or steal baggage but we're supposed to be worried about terrorists.
And it's also my opinion that the terrorists are three steps ahead of us. For example I can't bring more than 3 oz of liquid but that's only 1 container. If they wanted to bring dangerous liquid they could put it in several containers.
And with anything else they are also steps ahead.
Also we need to get less PC and search people who could actually be terrorists instead of getting people out of wheelchairs and searching little American children.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Marilyn I am in total shock I honestly thought we were pass all the rude comments you have made towards me in the past, honestly was it truly necessary to say what you did, do you feel better now??? . Here we go again and no I am not writing this to make people here feel sorry for me but that post was really low. Catherine

That's absurd and you already know it's discriminatory. Pulling out the "too PC" card is getting really old. It's only "too PC" when you aren't the one being discriminated against.

It's absurd because the minute they make it predictable who won't be searched, the terrorists will figure out how to use that to their advantage.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

All the 3oz containers have to fit in a quart-size ziploc. I don't know how they decided that was safe, but you are limited in how much total liquid you can take on board. I suspect that flight attendants are instructed to keep their eyes out for passengers setting up chemistry experiments on their fold-out trays.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Lucy, other than the person who stormed a ticket counter at LAX (who could never have gotten on board a plane with a gun), those incidents were in foreign countries against foreign countries.

This thread is about US security efforts regarding terrorist activities directed at US civilians and military personnel.

I do think it's reasonable to think that if our airport security is high that they'll just find something else to try to strike.

That's why intelligence is critical. And to date, we've certainly had fewer incidents around the world directed at us than the years pre-9/11.

9/11 woke our country that security had to be tighter in our country, but they've taken it too far.
If the individual gov. agency would have worked together 9/11 might not have happened. FBI, CIA, etc. all had information, that if put together, they may have been able to atop this tragedy.
Underwear bomber, he was in data bases as a terrorist, father called and said his son was up to something, he was escorted by security. How is it the average traveler now has to get groped or radiated to fly?
This is typical of our government, they don't fix problems, just create more.
Judy

You read my mind sometimes. I was thinking much the same thing but had decided to restrain myself, (once again). And here I am posting this and showing no restraint whatsoever.

And to you Lucy, can you read back what you have written and really understand it? I generally don't even read most of your posts because they are so difficult to comprehend. I agree with you much of the time, (I think), but it's really hard to tell.

I actually agree with you! (I know, it's not often we agree!!!)

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

It's not meant to be rude!
I want you to understand that you seem to have some good ideas, are very passionate about your opinions, but...it's so difficult to read your posts, a lot of us skip right over your posts.

And some of us here, have approached you about it--politely--and you play the victim card that we're picking on you! Sweetie, we're not picking on you. We would just like to be able to understand what you're writing! Might help some of us understand why you are so passionate about some things.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Okay Marilyn thanks that was a much better post I sincerely appreciate that, and yes Marilyn when it comes to certain subjects I am very passionate that is my personality I am a very emotional person plain and simple, thanks so much for writing back.. Peace. Catherine

What in the world are you talking about??? Are you just being facetious? I highly doubt you've been searched that thoroughly.

Yikes! There must be a tear in the fabric of the universe!

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Yes, over and over, it's been approached politely, and yet, not taken politely. Maybe this time it will be taken to heart and some positive changes can evolve.

dl

Okay Marilyn. Thanks. That was a much better post. I sincerely appreciate that, and yes Marilyn, when it comes to certain subjects, I am very passionate. That is my personality. I am a very emotional person, plain and simple. Thanks so much for writing back.

Wildwood may I ask what was that last post about you copied my whole comments but said nothing so can you kindly explain that, thanks and peace. Catherine

BS! Profiling works for El Al. They don't profile by looking at a person they profile by asking a few questions. That's how we should be profiling.

There's nothing absurd about it. It's no more absurd than saying that a detective talking to a suspect for a few moments to get a better reading is absurd.

Think about it. I'm surprised that someone like you who is usually pretty logical wouldn't see the logic of it.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I was showing you what a little punctuation can do to sentence flow and the ability to make people understand what you are saying. My version was readable, yours less so. It's very difficult to read what you write. Your thoughts seem to have no end at times. I assume you don't talk that way, so why do you write that way? You may not have known what I was doing, but I suspect just about every other person reading it understood it. I want you to be heard and understood. I think you have a valuable point of view, but it gets lost sometimes in your way of writing.

You're contradicting yourself. If profiling just involves "asking a few questions," then why is it considered "not PC"?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

spirit of the holidays to bicker over words on a screen. makes us all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it?

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Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com

My other favorites
www.paperbackswap.com
www.wheresgeorge.com
www.geocaching.com

Profiling is assuming something based on a person's heritage, nationality, skin color/race, name, etc. It has nothing to do with asking questions. Asking questions is called an investigation.

profiling is more commonly known as stereotyping.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Unfortunately - or not, depending on how you look at it - sometimes profiling, stereotyping, whatever you want to call it, holds true. While it certainly shouldn't be used to convict, it is not unreasonable for it to raise a question or two.

I think we have a failure to agree on the meaning of the word profile. There is racial profiling - making basic assumptions and increasing scrutiny based upon one's racial characteristics. There is also profiling by asking questions or looking for behavioral commonalities that might place a person in a class of people who might be more or less likely to need for closer scrutiny -- nervousness, traveling one way, no bags, etc, etc.

In my current job, I am often behaviorally profiled which results in frequent double secret security checks. I generally make one way flights at the last minute and travel with just carry on. You would think the fact that the Federal Gov't is paying for my flight would set their minds at ease, but it doesn't. My job is about 40 percent travel and the crowding at airports drives me nuts, so anything TSA can do that drives away flyers is fine with me. I don't believe the checks dramatically reduce my chances of dying at the hands of a terrorist in the sky. 1 in 30 million v. 1 in 15 million is still pretty good odds to live a bombed plane free life.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Wildwood I also thought we were on the same page, so you mean to tell me, because I forget to add some comma's and periods in posts, that is a big issue for you and others here?? honestly?? . In the scheme of life and what is important that is what bothers you really???.Omg with all the world has to worry about hunger and health issues and people having jobs and we are at war and pain and suffering and your worried about my sentences???. Sorry but I am so done with issue seriously please do me a favor do not read my posts honestly. Peace. Catherine

I think the profiling you describe, nightowl - all of it - is perfectly acceptable.

Profiling, to me, seems to originate from known facts and be a means to an end. It involves analysis.

Stereotyping seems to originate from feelings, and not have any goal beyond feeling personally superior to the person you think is 'less than' you because of some characteristic they hold. It seems more rooted in bias than facts.

I realize my statements don't fit any dictionary definition of those words, but in our vernacular, if I hear someone talk about being stereotyped they are often complaining because they assume the one doing the stereotyping had something against them and their 'characteristic' personally. ("Mrs. White hates boys and always gives the girls better grades! She shouldn't stereotype us as being bad at art just because we aren't girls!!!")

If I hear someone was 'profiled' it never sounds personal.

That was my point.

Anyway, I can't say I've ever flown El Al, so I can't speak from personal experience. If you Google around, you'll find a number of issues with the El Al approach. They do use racial profiling. They consider you a high risk if you're a single woman. Their system is very expensive. It is very time-consuming. El Al is tiny compared to all the US airlines. It's not scalable.

With people up in arms over the cost of the TSA as it is, I can't imagine what it would be like with an El Al approach. Their investigators are college educated. They ask more than "just a few questions." If Anna doesn't like being "randomly searched" every time she flies, I don't think the El Al approach would sit well with her either. I suspect she's been listening to too much Glenn Beck and not doing enough critical thinking of her own.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Worried? I'm certainly not worried about your sentences. I'm annoyed that you present yourself in such a way that you can not be taken seriously. And what do hunger and health issues have to do with writing a paragraph that is readable? Your writing on and on about it doesn't change a thing. But you can change the way you write, obviously, since you just did. And it's a small thing for you to do for those that do want to read what you write. You've been called on it before and yet you continue. How does that help anything? It's rather passive aggressive of you.

Reading poorly punctuated posts is like listening to an adult have a full conversation with another adult using baby talk. It has nothing to do with world hunger.

The way I see it is this: if I care enough about my point to type it out, there is no reason to undermine my credibility by writing so illegibly that I appear illiterate at best or socially rude at worst. Like the baby talk, it makes the 'speaker' look dense and so annoying to the others that they tune her out.

Ladies I am done please I have asked do not read my posts. Catherine

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Why doesn't the TSA do something that works? The only reason could possibly be that in this overly PC nation nobody wants to offend anyone.

I'm not listening to Glenn Beck or anyone else. I told you I've taken over 30 flights in the last few months. I've seen old women pulled out of wheelchairs and searched. I've seen children being searched and I've been intrusively searched over and over again.

I'd much rather be asked a few questions than have a hand up my crotch.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Yes I have been. I am not exaggerating they wedge their hand into the crotch and the butt cheeks. Why would I say it if it wasn't true?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Thank you that's exactly what I mean by "profiling".

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Lucy, you can't do that.

I mean... you can't post and then expect people not to read your posts.

If people are following a thread, your posts will be visible here unless someone puts you on ignore. I currently do have one poster on ignore, and that has worked well for me.

If there are posters who respond to your posts in a way that you do not like, you can easily put them on your ignore list so you will not have to read what they say. Ever.

It's just not kosher to tell people not to read *your* posts if you are going to post. Just take action yourself so that *you* can't see *them*. If it is always the same people bothering you then just block those same people.

You have the ability to write properly. You've done it on many occasions. I think that is why it frustrates many of us when you do not choose to use the rules of writing all the time. When I made my baby talk analogy, I wasn't just trying to be mean. I was trying to think of a way to explain how it feels to me.

I had a great uncle that always, always talked in baby talk to my grandmother, his sister. They were well into the senior citizen phase of life and he talked to her in baby talk. It was extremely weird and the fact that he spoke like an adult to the rest of the world made it even odder. He was capable of talking like a 70 year old - we heard him do it often!

Buh den wen e wood tok tuh ees sees-tur we coot not unnertand wot e was say-een.

It made us want to pull our hair out. We knew he was capable. We knew he had some intelligent thoughts to share. But for the life of us, it was so distracting and difficult to try to make out what he was saying that we just gave up.

Both speaking and writing are means of communication we employ to convey our ideas to other people. Both should be done to the best of ones ability so as to get the other person or people to properly 'get' what we are trying to say to them.

When you don't use the rules everyone has been taught to use, it makes it very difficult for the person on the other end of your thought to follow you. Whether you are speaking in a non-standard way or writing in a non-standard way, your 'listener' will be left wondering if you are going rogue because you don't know the 'rules' like the rest of the world, or if it is because you think it is funny to toy with people and are just being rude/obtuse.

It's one thing to text in 'shorthand'... but can you imagine if we all tried to type out our thoughts in posts that way?

Typing with no punctuation or caps is similar to that. Not quite as bad... but similar.

c u l8r.

Okay lets try it one more time, and honestly is my handwriting and sentence structure so bad that some of you ladies and honestly it is the same ladies who complain that big of a issue, that is must be brought up time and time again???. Can you not give it a break and simply move on??. Is it a crime to forget to add some comma's and some periods or to have run on sentences so bad??. When I mentioned this to Wildwood and I asked her in the scheme of life and and what more serious issues there are to be concerned about, my sentence structure sometimes lack of periods and comma's sinces so small in comparison to the bigger problems in life that we all should be concerned with. Wowitsdark for you to say you are not having an a adult conversation with me , but rather like talking like a baby, that was not nice at all. I do not wish to block any of you ladies at all, but if this keeps up , every single time I wish to post something it is not fair. Like I also mentioned to Marilyn I am a very passionate person when it comes to personally views and thoughts in my life and when a particular subject arises, I tend to get away with myself and type rather quickly I do not mean any harm, but my passion on the subject matter gets in the way, so what if I forget a few comma's or periods I am not hurting anyone. I sincerely hope this ends this and explains it all. Now peace to all. Catherine

I would hope, that for the umpteenth time, you would kindly be sincere, Lucy, and end it yourself as you have stated over and over and over. It IS tedious to read your posts and now you have seemingly peeved both wildwood and wowitsdark, marilynk, and myself again (and others who don't actually post).

Honestly, truly, it's you who doesn't get it. I gave you examples quite some time ago and all you could do was get mad. You say you leave commas out, yet I've typed the word commas coorrectly, it's not as you do: comma's - and you do it constantly, so it means you do not know what is correct.

The baby analogy (as well as others) that were given are accurate. You also continue to tell people what to post, or not to post and yet get upset when someone tells you (not only myself) that you are off topic ! You cannot have it both ways.

I am sure you do not mean harm, as you say, however passion at this point isn't a fair excuse when your errors are constant as well as repeated over and over.

I will suggest, as nicely as I can, that you look into a community college refresher course and work toward improving yourself. I would think after so many people here taking the time in hopes of helping you, that you would have, by now, come to agree there is a need for improvement.

dl

Bingo!! Passive Aggressive is perhaps the best call of the year. All the symptoms are there.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

Lucy,

1) In the grand scheme of things, yes, world hunger is more important than your writing skills.

2) World hunger is also more important than anything Rush said about the car of the year, but that doesn't mean you can't have opinions about both.

3) Being passionate about a topic isn't something on which you have cornered the market. But this is just a message board. Don't let yourself get so worked up and frantic over the opinions of strangers that you can't keep your wits about you.

4) Only you can decide how important it is to you to have your readers take you seriously and consider your words. If you choose to keep your composure and focus on conveying your ideals clearly they will be received with credibility even by those who disagree with you. If you prefer to use this forum as a place to expel your thoughts in a nonsensical way, just don't expect people to give them strong consideration and you won't get your feelings hurt.

#1---see, you can write a readable post!
#2---it is not every single time that you post. Quit whining. Quit playing the victim. No one believes it anymore.
#3---I'm passionate too. But, I have learned the best way to express my passionate opinion is clearly, concisely and coherently.
#4---yes, it is bothersome to read your ramblings. ESPECIALLY when one knows that you help teach young children! It concerns me greatly that you are illiterate, and may be passing that along to children.
#5---Grow up, get a thicker skin and quit whining!! It's a message board. If our opinion of you bothers you that much, then put us on ignore. Or move to a message board where others aren't as outspoken as some of us. Or do something about your writing "style". I suspect that you may ramble in your illiterate manner just to stir the pot, because you know that some of us can only take so much and will say something. Then you can cry and whine about how we're all mean to you. And, if that is the case? Then that is troll like behaviour, and you're just a trouble maker. You can hide behind the "woe is me" card, and spout peace all you want; but in the end? Some of us don't believe it.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Ya know I have tired and all your ladies need to get a life this is a chat board plain and simple for godsakes.... I do not need any advice from anyone of you anymore geesh get a life, does anyone else not see a pattern, its the same pain in a........... complaining and looked suezz just came in to join the party......I am done. There are so many other wonderful ladies on here who could care less about how how I write my posts, but I did not know I was in College over here in the cafe....... No more peace no more Catherine. You will never see a single post from me on the cafe......

That's right. Take your toys and go home. The pattern is yours.

Although you will be back - hopefully after you take a refresher course for self improvement.

Your doling out of peace is sad too, peace to some, peace to none dependent upon what YOU deem proper. What other adult constantly says peace?

dl

It isn't college. My two sons (almost 11 and almost 13), write more literate than you!!!

We'll see if you stay away. I'm taking 3 to 1 odds that you can't control yourself and will be back. And 2 to 1 odds that you reply to THIS post.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I too can be passionate, but when I type anything rapidly, I then go back and reread it several times to make sure it's saying what I want it to say in an understandable manner. Learn to edit. Learn to punctuate. Learn to quit blaming us for the fact that you will not, (notice I didn't say "can not"), write a coherent paragraph.

No matter where you choose to run to for your postings, you are going to be annoying someone with your lack of structure in your writing. I wish you well. Ciao.

Yep,warm and fuzzy and hot and bothered...Did you ever notice it's the same ones that seem to have some kind of complex... Do ya suppose they were bully s in school?????? Oops I hope all my commas and punctuation are correct: mad:

That's not what El Al means by profiling. Furthermore, if they don't like your answers to the questions, you will be subjected to a body check.

I've been through the pat down routine myself. It was in no way a grope. In fact, I'd be more concerned about being a TSA agent who has to pat down someone who gets off on it.

I don't think our system is perfect, but I don't think El Al is the answer. For all the people shrieking about taxes, consider that estimates for the cost of an El Al style TSA would be 10 times our current cost.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Here is one reason I do feel safer today than... well, I guess I felt safe on 9/10 and didn't know I shouldn't have.

I guess I should say that in light of what we know now, this is the sort of thing that makes me think we are safer today:

Attempted Bombing Thwarted

I think it is pretty amazing that our intelligence agencies are on top of things to the point that nobody like that guy has been successful.

There have been plans made to do Americans harm here on our soil, but every one of them - to date - has been thwarted.

Pre-911 things like this weren't much of a blip on our intelligence radar.

That's what bothers me personally

Kellyjef you sincerely and personally bother you have not posted in such a long long time and once again like a few others here, just like a troll you are come back to stir the pot and cause trouble, somethings never ever change too they. Catherine

No, some things never change. Here is some kind help:

kellyjef, you sincerely and personally bother me, you have not posted in such a long, long time. Once again, like a few others here, you are like a troll. You come back to stir the pot and cause trouble. Some things never, ever change do they?

Is that what you meant? It's the best I could figure out. I don't really think kellyjef bothers herself, as you state. Perhaps you are stalking her to "know" she hasn't posted in "such a long, long time" - and why care?

dl

OMG, another post that makes NO sense whatsoever! "you are come back"?? You ended your run-on sentence with the word "they"???

BTW, I haven't posted in a while because my computer was down, so don't flatter yourself that I "come back to stir the pot".

Omg I mean't to say to Kelly that she sincerely and personally bothers me and you knew that DL and whatever Kelly about not having the computer there are other posts here, you could have picked other posts to enter into. But nope you picked me Catherine and I am not the one making trouble and again here comes Deddlastt you lady simply cannot leave me alone honestly you simply cannot.........Catherine

What do I win???
I called how this would play out.
Wish I had actually placed a bet w/ the odds makers!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

You have your dignity and credibility. Some do not. Although, I have to say, this was an easy one to call.........



dl

I'm all for "security measures" but, honestly..... what if a woman is wearing a tampon? Does it pick that up?? And what if they suspect it is a "bomb" or "bomb makings"? What will they do???

No one wants to allow a bomb on a plane, of course, but, this is over kill and quite the invasion of privacy.

TSA is a load of C R A P ....CRAP!!! They stole things out of my suitcase last XMAS and if they can do that, they can put things in your suit case, too. Just a matter of time before some nut job hell bent on blowing up innocent people gets a job with TSA and plants something on a plane.

I like the lady who went thru the screener in a bikini....LOL.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Have you had one of these searches?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Because one of my company's clients is an airline, I can tell you what kind of people are hired as baggage handlers; and that scares the bejesus out of me!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

You see DL, I also have my Dignity and credibility too, you all seen to think, this is all one big joke... oh well I guess I certaintely have brought some life back to the cafe at least . Catherine

Now you make me add confused regarding you - I replied to Marilynk's post, not yours, not you, not about you, nothing to do with you in what I stated/typed.

It is NOT all about you, woe is you, whine, lather, repeat !

dl

Oh buy do you not realize I can respond because you were talking about me because I said I was leaving and came back . Catherine

My DH is a fleet manager for a major airline and he is all for more security. He said people would be absolutely amazed if they knew what the TSA has siezed to date. He feels that the more security, the better. Should we choose/need to fly, we will just go through the x-ray machines so we don't have to endure the pat-down. Just my two cents.

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Kim

Anna, yes the scanner will pick up the string from the tampon. It will also pick up a pad. You will then be flagged for a pat down. At that point you will probably have to prove to them you have your period by removing whatever means you use for that time of the month. It happened to a woman over Y+Thanksgiving and she had to remove her pad to prove pad to prove it wasn't a bomb.
The ACLU's website has been taking complaints for the last week. They have over 900 of them. This was on of the complaints.
Newfun, I suppose you are o.k. with the police doing these extreme pat downs. You should see what the police find in routine traffic stops, in plain site! You are more likely to be hurt by one of these people than die from a terrorist.
Judy

That's a horrible story! Judy, I didn't mean to imply that I thought the new process is the "right" process. I just stated that my husband is aware of a lot of items found that I wouldn't want on a flight with my family and believes that additional security measures are warranted. That being said, I certainly am not in favor of, or okay with, "extreme pat downs".

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Kim

I guess it would pick up "piercings" too, huh??

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.