I am indeed and very proud for all Americans but more so for our Gay Men and Woman Soldiers who are serving our country the greatest country in the world overseas. A special thanks for President Obama for signing the bill and a very special thanks to all the congressional democrats, this is a proud day for me and I am sure for so many others God Bless all our Service men and woman one and all and always keep them safe. Catherine

Personally I don't even think this ever should have come about. There is no reason to "display" or discuss your sexuality in the work place. How would someone know if a person was gay unless they start hitting on them (person of the same sex) which is sexual harassment, or if they come out and say it. Now, would you (collective you) go around discussing your sexual preferences?? Would you discuss how you are a heterosexual?? Or how you like having sex in the shower? Or you are into threesomes??? Of course not!! It has no place in the work place, and I think a lot of time and energy, and MONEY, has been spent on something that should have been a non issue all along!!

Now, Catherine, why are you "even more so" proud of the gays serving?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Also wanted to add, it will be interesting to see how this all unfolds in the military...... will they offer benefits to "partners", etc? An interesting ruling, for sure.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

So, you never mention at work that you are married or have a boyfriend? You never say something like, "My husband and I ....." or "My boyfriend and I...."?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Oh, a very good point. I had not thought of that, honestly. Of course I mention my spouse. Hmmmmm...... So, a gay person can now say "my boyfriend and I" if males? Is this what they are after?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I think they are "after" not getting kicked out of the armed services if it's found out that they are gay. I think they are "after" knowing that if they are persecuted by fellow comrades for being gay, that they have a way to redress their problems. I also think they would like to be treated with respect in all aspects of their lives in the military and out, and not as freaks of nature. None of these hopes and expectations are unreasonable in my mind.

Allinaugust I can believe your comments however your personal views , but where have you been , especially lately with all the young adults who have been tormented and taken their own lives because of being gay and made fun of. You seriously think the money that was spent on this so important issue for our gay community was not worth it, for me it would be worth it for anyone who was a minority on any level, and so much more for these men and woman who have laid their lives down on the line to serve and protect us. For all service men and woman whether straight or bi or gay, they are all the same and deserve all the same rights and protection always . Catherine

Is having a sexual preference different than the "norm" really considered a minority status? Serious question, not being catty.

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Melissa

Well yes to the last poster, because to this date 12/23/10 all over the world the gay community are still not considered the norm, which in my view is terribly sad, because they are no different then me and you. Catherine

Will being gay every be considered the "norm"?? What I'm asking is, does being gay give you minority status. Like being a minority because of your race.

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Melissa

Sadly I do not think being Gay will ever be the norm it is just a basic fact of life on how other people view what other people like the Gay Community choose to live their personal lifestyle, which actually is no one's business. If it does not bother you personally effects your life personally, then why care, I would think someone should be more concerned with murderers, rapists, child abusers, drug abusers, . Again just like there will always be racists sadly I cannot believe it to be, Gay People will never ever be the norm, never ever no matter how far we may come in life for them. Catherine

What I am trying to point out is, no it will never be the "norm". It just isn't, and the fact that it isn't is neither good nor bad. And who says people are not concerned about murderers and rapists and child molesters??

My question is does being gay give you minority status?? I seriously was just wondering.

I am sitting here in the truck with my veteran husband. He spent 10 years in the AF and served during Desert Storm. He is not homophobic. He does however share the opinion that many in the military do that if you are a man that prefers men, he does not really want to share a communal showers etc. like military men are required to do. He feels it is no different than a man showering in a woman's locker room. That is just one of the issues that the military men and women are concerned about.

Would you shower with a group of men?

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Melissa

I wouldn't want to shower with a group of men.

I think that the issue here shouldn't be rights as much as what's best for the military.

I've never been in the military myself, so I can't speak from experience.

The military isn't just something you join like a health club. Lives are on the line, and cohesion is critical. Anything that gets in the way of that needs to be eliminated. Period.

I have no personal clue if the thought of sharing sleeping and showering quarters with people who might be sexually attracted to each other breaks down cohesion or not, but I can see that it possibly might. Momrajum's question about showering with men ... well, no, that's not something I would do.

I think it's a question for military leaders to answer - whether or not it is an issue - and not something that politicians should dictate.

Apparently 8 Republicans also voted for the repeal.

I don't feel dogmatically one way or the other. Just like with any issue there are many nuances that make it complicated in my opinion.

I can understand that to the gay community this is a huge win.

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Melissa

Minority status in what regards? Certainly there are fewer homosexual people than heterosexual people. I believe the estimate is 10% of the population. In that regard, yes, being gay makes you a minority.

What are you driving at?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I wasn't driving at anything. Honestly just wondering. Googled the question and didn't come up with much in a quick search. I just have never put much thought into it.

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Melissa

I don't want to take showers with anyone, regardless of whether they are men, women, gay, lesbian, in a wheel chair, deaf, blind, mute, short, tall, fat, skinny, black, white, or some other ethnicity. All that argument does is obfuscate the fact that people should not be denied rights that others have because of their sexual orientation. People in the military, in colleges, in any communal area where showering is a group endeavor, are showering with gays and lesbians now, and have been since the beginning of time. They have survived. If it becomes a major problem there are other options. Scheduled time for shower use. Shower curtains for privacy.

The same arguments were used with blacks, and women. It's been worked out. Maybe not to everyone's satisfaction, but for the most part it works.

I don't agree that the comparison is the same. I would have a problem with my son being forced to shower with women. He might not mind...lol. I don't think being gay is the same as being black or a different gender.

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Melissa

When straight people go to work they are able to say "my husband and I went on this great vacation" or "the kids are all in high school now"

It's not about coming in to the work place and saying anything sexual it's about being yourself and being able to share things about your life with people without worrying about getting beat up, ridiculed or fired.

I don't go to work and talk about what my husband and I do sexually and they don't want to either.

Is that clear enough?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

First off to Momrajum I appauld your husband for serving our country and putting his life on the line to keep our great country safe. However hon, I am upset to hear he does not want to shower with gay men, please kindly explain to me, by looking at a naked man or woman how can you tell they are gay. Also furthermore by taking a shower with someone who is gay, how will that harm or hurt you I cannot understand that. Which brings me back to when people thought that if they drank from the same water fountain as black people something would happen to them, truly sad..... Catherine

There is nothing sad about the fact that my husband prefers not to shower with a gay man. He'd prefer not to shower with any other man, lol, but I'm sure it would make him uncomfortable to be "checked out" by another man, the same if he were to be forced to shower with a woman. And frankly hon, I don't care that that upsets you.

I don't think you can tell by looking at someone naked whether they are gay or not.

Being black and being gay are two entirely different things. No comparison.

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Melissa

Right - so he's probably already done it and he lived!

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

The arguments are the same in an attempt to deny one group of people their rights.

I presume your son is an adult. You might have a problem with his shower mates, but it's really his dilemma to deal with, if he chooses to make it one. Although, I suspect, should coed showers become the norm, there might be a spike in enlistment, at least for the unmarried males. But thinking about, there might also be a rash of un-enlistments from the married guys.

And as I said before, the real problem is being obfuscated by the showering argument. It's a civil rights issue being ignored and denied while people wring their hands over showers.

I don't think being gay, black or female is the same either. But their rights, or lack of, are very similar and are the real issue. Their inability to get their rights is the same, regardless of their gender, race, or orientation.

Apparently you didn't see my reply to Jujubee2???

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Just wondering if you have ever served?? On a sub?? Out in the field??

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

They are not "the norm", and yes, I beg to differ, they are very different than me. I do not choose the same sex person to be in a relationship with. I do believe that sexual orientation is in the brain, and not a chosen thing. However, I do not believe it is in the best interest of our military to allow openly gay people to serve. Unless someone can show me otherwise, that is my opinion and my belief.

Catherine, have you served in the military??? Has your spouse???

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Ummmmm.....WHAT???

I've been right here watching the news like the rest of the country. Do you really think that by the POTUS making it legal for gays to openly serve, that this is going to stop the tormenting and fun making, of gays??? If so, I need to ask you "where have YOU been???".

Exactly what rights are gays NOT getting that the rest of us are??

And, again, I ask you , Why are you "even more so" proud of gays?

As a side note, I find it very interesting that many weighing in on this in support of gays openly serving, have not served in the military. Hmmmmm....... Reminds me of a man telling a woman what is best for her body

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Damn you AIA! Using logic and common sense---that has no place here! LOL

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

My husband was a young XO of a small boat in the early 80's. There were gay guys then and he guesses the numbers are about the same. He had to do an investigation and found, surprisingly to us then (at our tender ages), the gay relationship went to very high levels. He was forbidden to continue the investigation once it became clear how high the information he was stumbling into went.

Gays of both sexes have been serving in the military since it began. Now, they just don't have to lie.

I know plenty of people who serve/have served. All but the homophobic amongst them have no objections to gays serving. All of them say they know/have known many gays who serve with them.

AIA I saw your response to Jujubee. As a human being I can't understand why a person would object unless they are afraid of something. There is nothing to be afraid of.

Gays are not some cult that try to recruit people to their side or abuse people. Most of them are exactly like the rest of us they want to live a successful, happy life with some security and love. To think they would be the downfall of the military or that openly serving would be some detriment is ignorant.

When you showered in the school locker room there were silent gays did they try anything with anyone?

I frankly have no idea why anyone would object to a person being themselves. How would a person feel if they had to hide their religion (like the Jews during WW 2) or pretend to be another race like some light skinned African American in decades past?

I'm sure there are gay people on this board who are afraid to speak up because of the homophobic attitudes. For God's sake we are all human beings and anyone who is brave enough and patriotic enough to defend our rights, yes even the right to speak out against them, is worthy or our respect.

Those of you who object to this: have you known any gay people? I don't mean marginally I mean have you ever been friends real friends with any gays, do you have any in your family and how would you feel if your children were gay? Would they have to hide it or be ostracized from the family?

My gay friends are some of the best people I know. They are hard working, (many of them religious) law abiding, loving to their families, and contribute to their communities in many ways.

And they don't hate straight people. People who claim to be Christian or claim to love God then want to exile a whole group of God's children need to look inside themselves, ask "what am I afraid of" and have a little talk with God.

There are good and bad people in all groups and we can't judge everyone by the worst of them.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Aia I mean't to say I cannot believe your comments, then I cannot believe now you write it is in the best interest of our country if open minded gay people do not serve in the military?????????? seriously???????? you truly mean that statement, what do you personally have againist gay people serving and protecting our country?????. Would they not serve it as well, please oh please answer my question why you feel they should not serve our country??????. And in answer to your question why I am so proud I am proud if you do not know by now my brother who passed away Sonny was gay and their were many people who looked down upon him beside of his sexual preference, which is no ones business. Finally before you tell me I feel so strongly because it was my brother no it goes further then that, I believed that way long before I knew my brother was gay, they deserve any human right we do and being Gay in my personal view is not a choice I believe you were born that way. Omg almost 2011 and people still feel this way about the gay community it is indeed very sad.......... Catherine

No, you need to go back and read what I wrote. It is NOT in the best interest .....


ILL- WHERE did I say I have anything against gay people??? I am against them serving, yes, not against them as a "community" or "group". I have gay friends and acquaintances, no big deal. I love Ellen Degeneres....no big deal!! I believe they should not serve our country for the same reason I don't agree with women on Submarines. Does that mean I am against women??? You would really have to have a close relationship with the military, so to speak. You can have as many friends as you like IN the military....it's not the same. You aren't "living" it.

Imagine this scenario: 5 guys serving in the field, 1 is openly gay. A life or death decision needs to be made. The guys that are not accepting of gays will likely NOT give as much "thought" to saving the gay person. That is not the best way to describe that scenario, but, I hope you can see the story I am trying to tell. I said "the military is not ready for gays to serve". Please go back and read what I have written.

Really, your brother was gay??? I had NO IDEA

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Nope..........

I don't have to live anything to know when something is wrong. I've never been a slave, a pedophile priest, a tyrant, a terrorist, or numerous other things. I just know they are wrong.

Your last scenario just shows that bigots and murderers should not be allowed in the military. And as we've said, gays have served in military units in all countries for eternity, sometimes openly. The military has survived.

I suspect a very similar argument was made for keeping African Americans segregated in the armed forces.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

And pedophiles and murderers have "lived next door" for eternity, and our country has survived. You have your opinion and I have mine.

We'll see how this whole thing plays out.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Aia I cannot believe again what you wrote about gay men and woman serving our country, they are doing it for us to keep this great country and nation safe, is that not more important, you also say you have gay friends and so???? what does that mean, how would they feel, if they heard you speak here???. To wildwood a very sincere thank you for your last statement so very true words you spoke sincerely thank you for all of Gods children we are all equal and in all walks of life and God loves us all Black, White, Red, Yellow, Small, Big, Tall, Pretty, Ugly, no matter the race or color or creed or religion or sexual prefence, truly wish we all felt that way for the world would be a better place for sure....... Catherine

Sexual orientation is not a Federally protected class under the 14th Amendment if that is what you are asking. (However, some state constitutions have been interpreted to include sexual orientation.)

Catherine, with all due respect, you are one of the most ignorant people I have NEVER met. I will no longer debate this issue with you.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Careful AIA---you'll get the "frowny" face from ILL!

And you most certainly will be told how mean you are. Don't you know it's just her "style"??

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Catherine.......I absolutely believe that God has a love that passes all understanding for all human beings. I believe that because He said it loud and clear when He sent his Son. However, God's love for us does not mean, as far as I understand, that He loves all that we do. There is a difference. I love my children more than I could have ever fathomed before I had them, but I do not love all of their choices. I do not "accept" all of their choices and say "good for you!" when I believe that choice may harm them.


Speaking of Jesus....MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

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Melissa

Really? You're comparing homosexuals to pedophiles and murderers? I don't care for homophobes, but I wouldn't compare them to pedophiles and murderers.... except, of course, the homophobes who murder gay people just for being gay.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Aia it seems like your the most ignorant person I have ever met, and it also seems I certaintely struck a nerve with you and for the right reason, what you said here with your comments about gay people were not nice and sincerely cannot believe you did, however your choice. To Marilyn keep coming in now and then and trying to stir the pot with me, it will not work, but nice try and honestly Marilyn I am surprised you have nothing better else to do in this thread then say what you did to me, instead the smart woman you say you are, I kinda thought better comments would have been said, but again you proven the true person you are how lovely........ Catherine.. Edited thanks again so much to Jujubee and Wildwood for your comments.

I actually see both sides of the argument regarding DADT...
1) all members of the military should be free to be who they are from a personal relationship standpoint.
2) I can see where gays/lesbians in a military setting could create issues.

I don't think that there is a good answer. I really don't.

With VP Biden bringing the subject of same sex marriage into the discussion; I do see several other issues looming on the horizon for the military. Issues that the US as a whole cannot even begin to tackle, much less the military!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I absolutely agree with you Marilyn. There is no good answer. As I was thinking more about it, I think it boils down to individuals giving up individual rights for the betterment of the whole. The military is not the place for individual rights, there is always more at stake. I'm not sure exactly what that looks like from all standpoints, but it was just a thought. It's not always about what "I" think or what "I" feel is right or wrong.

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Melissa

I think the homophobes need to stop thinking what "I" think or what "I" feel is wrong and respect the new law. Don't like it? Get out of the military.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Who gets to choose which group has to give up their rights? Should the gays give up theirs or should the fearful homophobes give up theirs? For me it's an easy choice. You can get over being a fearful homophobe, but you don't get over being gay.

Just my opinion,and I have nothing against gays but I feel this bill will do more harm than good.Why? Because ,now that gays can be open about them being gay is going to open them up to more ridicule and harrassment from those fellow comrads that don't like gays.Whereas before with them having to keep quiet ,they would be safe from any harrassment and possible harm that could come to them.

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That is an excellent and reasonable answer. Give up national safety for the sake of one group of people. Exactly what I meant.

In reality, I think that that attitude is the core problem.

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Melissa

There are many people whose service is disallowed for many reasons. There are physical issues, psychological, and academic reasons for which a number of individuals are denied the 'right' to serve.

The military is where people give up their rights, not where they exercise them.

I still maintain that this is a decision best left to military leaders and should be based on whether or not adding this sexually-related issue into the landscape will make our military more capable of doing their job.

exactly!
:d

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

The core problem is bigots. They add nothing to national safety if they can't respect other human beings, and follow the orders from on high. The services would be better off without them.

It seems that many military leaders are willing to give it a try. The leaders have to follow orders, so the orders say make it work, and, with a few exceptions, make it work they probably will. Just like they did with blacks and women.

If people are giving up their rights in the military then it should be those who can not get along with their fellow soldiers, and those who can not follow orders should leave.

Exactly right!

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Again jujebee and wildwood love your comments, to Dollydeal sorry but I disagree if we keep pretending that the gay community does not exist, and keep them quiet and hide them, as wildwood said it would be the same that was done to woman and blacks and is does still happen all over the world. We must move forward to acknowledge who they are not hide them anymore that would be going backwards and that would not be the right thing to do at least in my personal view.. Catherine