I know they have "fixed" the budget situation and a shut down was avoided, but, for the love of Pete.....I can not stand to see one more military member or family member on the TV talking about "how will I feed my family"??? I understand the frustration of still having to work and not get paid (right away) while Congress has no interruption in their pay, but, really???

As it stood, military members would be paid thru April 8th, on the 15th. That is one week of pay they would not see on the 15th. People were on the TV talking about how they didn't know where there next meal would come from, or how they could make their car payment. Rhetorical question here, but, do they have NOTHING in the bank??? If just the temporary loss of one week's worth is pay is going to effect you that severely, you'd better get yourself in for some money counseling.

Flame Away, I've just really had it with people's crying about how they have it so bad and they are so bad off.....UGGHHHHHH!!!

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I'm with you. No flaming here. First of all, there are many people without work or on wage freezes. Join the party. Secondly, if we all lived at or below our means we'd be a lot better off. If you don't have the money for it, don't buy it (within reason).

Also, there are certain groups (open to flaming here) that are always "poor mouthing". Two groups I think of off hand are (some) military and (some) pastors.

No flaming from me either. We always try to keep at least a little in the bank. Not a ton but enough if my DH didn't work a week or 2 we'd be ok covering the basics. And sorry but I also hate hearing how the military deserves a pay raise all the time. My DH hasn't had a raise in almost 8 yrs. We're just happy he has a stable job.

__________________
Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

Yes, at that time, it would have been only one week BUT it would have been longer if the shutdown had continued for an extended period. Yet, the military would have had to continue to go to work(both here & overseas in Iraq & Afghanistan) and NOT know when they were going to get paid next if the shutdown had happened. I guess it would be okay with each of you to still have to go to work BUT not know when you are going to get paid? And as far as living beyond their means, there are many that live well within their means BUT still deserve to get paid for the work that they do.

And as a side note, IF the shutdown would have happened AND a soldier was killed during that time, the family would have had to wait until after the shutdown ended for the death benefits as well. Guess that would be okay with each of you as well?

And as you sit in your comfy homes & bash the military for being concerned about their paychecks, do you stop and THANK them for the service that they do for our country? Remember that without them standing at the ready to defend us from all enemies that we would not have many of the freedoms that we enjoy on a daily basis.

This sums it all up for me:

Congressional Leaders, Senators, Ladies and Gentlemen,

Letter of Concern:

My name is Captain Mark D. Natale; I am a Paratrooper and communications officer for a USASOC (US Army Special Operations Command) unit stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I write this letter of concern today, not as an Army officer, but as a concerned citizen. The current Budget crisis that is unfolding in Washington has far reaching and dire implications to our men and women in uniform.

I have had many Soldiers ask me “How will I support my family sir?”, “I can’t believe that I’m being asked to deploy to a combat zone with no guarantee of getting paid” and in every case, I have no good answer to give them. I write today to ask the members of Congress, the Senate, and the President to pass any measure, bill, or piece of legislation that will ensure that the men and women in uniform will not have a loss or delay in pay. In the military we have something called “second and third order effects”, which means that a loss/delay of pay to the members of the military will result in many people not being able to pay their bills, buy food and fuel, possibly miss mortgage payments, loss of child care and result in poor credit reporting, NSF bank fees and a possible loss of financial security over the long-term.

Funding the military in this case is not about bombs and bullets, rather it is all about the people…the families behind the service members that have been asked to sacrifice so much already. It is irresponsible for us to add this burden and stress to the only segment of Americans that serve their Country in “Enemy Territory”. I am frankly surprised and disappointed that the 1% of the population that wears the uniform has to fight for financial security in our own nation.

My concern is not about my bank account, it is about the 18yr old Soldier in Iraq and Afghanistan who is ready to go on a deadly mission in the enemy’s home turf and they hear that their wife cannot buy groceries, or that the rent check bounced. When I have Soldiers that qualify for WIC and other government programs it shows me that service members are paid too little to begin with, and taking away their only source of income is inconceivable.

The impending government shutdown will destroy the confidence of our troops in our national leaders and will break many families. I cannot illustrate every possible outcome in this letter, but I can say with certainty that not taking care of our military members will be the biggest, single detriment to our National security and prosperity in recent history. Remember, that this shutdown doesn’t effect a nameless, faceless organization…it effects me, my wife, Sonia and my children Sophia and Gabriel…..and thousands more like us.

v/r

CPT Mark D. Natale

April 8, 2011 at 10:39 am | Report abuse |





10 things that could ruin your day if the government shuts down – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs the letter may be found


And I have had it with all of the bashing & whining towards the military BUT yet, those very same people enjoy the FREEDOMS that the military protects for them. ONE percent of our nation stands at the ready to defend 99% of the nation. Shaking head!!!

I'm not bashing the military. I'm just saying that they are no more important than the rest of us. We need factory workers, bus drivers, grocery clerks, teachers, etc. to keep running smoothly. Take away any one of those groups and it would have a ripple effect on everyone.

I know a lot of people who signed up for the military to get a sign on bonus and paid college...then they buy a brand new car and complain that they are poor.

freer, I know that you were not bashing them. People are forgetting about the ripple effect that it would cause if the military as well as the other federal workers involved stopped getting paid. Yes, the military would have received back pay at some point BUT that would not pay their bills in the meantime. As well as there were "nonessential" Federal workers that may have been placed on "unpaid" furlough so those checks would have disappeared completely.

I know some of the same type of military as you know BUT at the same time, I know the ones that joined for the right reasons. Is it so wrong for them to expect to be paid for the job that they are doing on a daily basis? And yes, it sits wrong with me for Congress to still get their pay during a government shutdown. Congress NOT doing THEIR job for the last six months is what got us so close to a government shutdown.

Littlewolf,

Allinaugust is the wife of a military man, if I recall correctly.

I think what she is saying is very true.

I am grateful for our men and women in uniform. It's a job I don't know that I could ever have the strength (mentally or physically) to do. Ever.

I think that everyone agrees that they deserve to be paid. Everyone.

What AIA is saying is that two things need to happen:

1) People - all of them who would have been potentially inconvenienced by a shutdown - needed to keep it all in perspective. Politicians were playing chicken with each other. It happens all the time. Shutdowns have happened in the past, with the longest one lasting about 3 weeks during President Clinton's term when he and Gingrich couldn't come to an agreement. It's unfortunate. Nobody disputes that. But it's important for everybody to man up and be aware that this happens sometimes in our country. It just does.

It's not convenient, but I would hope that our military personnel recognize that ultimately they WILL be paid. The analogy about a private sector employee being told to go to work but not be paid doesn't really apply, because private sector businesses go belly-up with no safety net and occasionally leave employees holding the bag with no pay. And I do believe that a private employer who didn't pay its employees could be sued for withholding pay AND if they hadn't paid, the employee would not be contractually bound to remain in their employ.

Try just quitting with the US Military. It's not the same thing. The contractual tie is, IMHO, tighter, and servicemen and women should know that ultimately, they will not be shorted a penny.

2) People need to plan ahead. It's just that simple. If you're new to the world of work in any capacity, it's perfectly understandable that you might not have a buffer in savings. But if someone has money for booze on the weekends, an iPod, a cell phone... any of those things... they *did* have disposable income they could have saved. I don't think we do a very good job of personal planning or deferring pleasure in America. Take care of your basic NEEDS first... and if you have no savings, savings is a NEED. Then buy the fun stuff once you have an emergency fund. It's just the responsible thing to do... but way too many of us have been conditioned that the 'toys' that all our friends have are actually needs.

They aren't.

Well said.

Personally I'm getting a little tired of these kids who are enlisting in the military and then demanding "respect" because they are in Iraq or Afganistan. They chose to enlist and they knew that was their job. Now pre-911 I did feel sorry for them because they had no idea that would happen. BUT now everyone who enlists knows the possiblities of fighting a war. It is what you sign up for and it is your JOB. If that's not what you want to do then don't enlist. I know someone personally who got out of the military and a couple months ago he re-enlisted. He's on facebook all the time practically begging for care packages and getting smart with people who don't talk him up enough. Now I know not all do that. It's probably the younger ones (and not all of them) who would probably act this way even if they weren't in the military but it's getting old. I DO support the troops and I do respect them but no more than I respect my son who is a janitor or my sister who works in a daycare, etc. That's just my opinion. Sorry if I offended anyone.

wowitsdark, I am part of a military family as well!

1) Yes, there have been shutdowns in the past BUT the military was still paid during that time frame. I am sorry but I still find it mind boggling that ANYONE would think that it is okay for the military to have to wait on their pay. That speaks a LOT for our country that we are willing to look at our men & women in uniform and say continue to do your job even if that includes dying and we will pay you at some point. Anyone that has been around the military for very long knows how long you have to wait at times for back pay.

Yes, it may be comparing apples to oranges for the private sector analogy to some but the theory behind it is the same. IF you or anyone else does their job, they deserve to be paid in a timely fashion. You are right that that the military is not just a job that one can quit which is another reason why their pay should NOT be put on the line.

2) Yes, I agree that people need to plan ahead for things. Has anyone stopped to think about the fresh to the military households that have not had time to set up an emergency fund of any type? My family would have been one of the lucky ones because we are established and have set up a "cushion" just in case. With that said, I do not begrudge the others that have not had the opportunity to the same thing.

3) As I stated earlier, IF the government must shut down because the "school yard bullies" cannot get their act together, they should NOT be paid during that time either. No one liked it when we were bailing out the banks and automotive industry BUT the top executives continued to get paid and received bonuses.

kbain: All I will say to all of that is to walk a day in their boots! They are willing to protect YOU and the rest of the country at any given moment. I have been wondering what the country would think if all of the military just decided to set down their arms & say we are done??

aia is spouse of military, she has said it before. So am I. First and foremost, the problem is with politicians who INEXCUSABLY cannot do their jobs in a timely manner. Period. I think the thing that "gets" aia is that the military is a guaranteed paycheck unless you are totally stupid. You know how much income you have and should be able to handle the outgo.

That said, there has been a shift from "keeping up with the Jones family" to constantly crying poor. Everyone cries poor nowadays, while talking on the latest cell phone, new car, heading out for dinner, shopping, etc. People just do not get it that they have put themselves in the poorhouse. Period, they didn't conduct themselves responsibly. People confuse wants with needs. I am tired of crying poor by anyone.

As an aside, the other thing, while we are whining, I am tired of is all the attention on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. I cringe every time I hear her name and it's continuous news like it happened yesterday. After the 1st couple of days, absolutely no mention of any other victims or those who died. NONE. And I am not so sure her husband should command the mission, and I am not excited to know she will be there - the media will be all over them inappropriately. The focus should not constantly be on her / him.

Back to my mundane life of living well within my means.

dl

Totally agree!!

__________________
"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

If anything good comes of this, perhaps it will be to show those who live paycheck to paycheck that they need to develope a plan to save up 3-6 months of emergency cash. No cell phones, no car loans, etc until that goal is achieved. At least the military folks knew they would eventually be paid.

I had to work but wouldn't be immediately paid. My staff weren't so lucky. They couldn't work, and had no idea if they would be paid yet they couldn't look for a new job to replace the potentially lost income. Last week we explored state unemployment and loans against retirement accounts.

I think Secret Service, air traffic controllers. FBI, Border Control, NSA, and many more who would have had to report to work yet would not be paid, are about as important to "protect us" as those who happen to be employed by the DoD.

Sadly, with the current rampant feeling of entitlement that will just never happen.


I am not bashing the military either, my father was a veteran, my uncle did three tours in Vietnam. I have many more family and friends that are past or present military, my nephew is currently on his FOURTH tour in the debacle. I just feel that on the average there is far to much "I want it, so I need it" attitude in this country.

No shock there, groovygirl! Shaking my head!

I would not be happy about it, for sure, BUT, if I were in a job with a guaranteed pay, I would not worry so much. They WILL eventually get paid, and really, I think we (the general public) all knew that even if the shut down occured, it would not last long.

I never said they didn't deserve to get paid. I don't think anyone here has.

Does this include SGLI or other life insurance plans?

Every minute of every day.

I really don't think anyone is disputing this point.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

EXACTLY!!!! And, frankly, the ones who do not have the "cushion" are likely the lower ranking, newer to the military, members. Most likely they live in gov't housing (read: no mortgage or rent to speak of, no utility payment other than phone). If you're single, you likely live in the barracks, so none of that to worry about. If you do not have "money in the bank" and have a family, shame on you, plain and simple.

And, what about "we take care of our own"? Does this go out the window when it comes to getting on TV and crying "oh poor me"??? I do think many got on TV to stir up the masses and pound it home to Congress what their actions are creating?? I could not have the gall to do such a thing. I would be embaressed to display such irresponsibility and I can't imagine my husband would be too pleased, either.

Personal Responsibility is what I'm asking for, and it seems not too many have it any more.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

allinaugust, no, that did not include SGLI but the death gratuity from my understanding reaches the families first. And not sure about you but I have been around different situations that SGLI did NOT pay for some reason. In any case, I would highly recommend life insurance outside of what the military offers to the service members.

How military pay would be affected by a government shutdown - 12 News KBMT and K-JAC. News, Weather and Sports for SE Texas

"The senior defense official also said Friday that while the government is closed, the military will not be able to pay death gratuities to service members who die on active duty.

The payment is made in the event of a combat death, training death or a death by natural causes. The one-time lump sum of $100,000 is not taxable. The money is paid as soon as possible to the beneficiaries named by the service member.

Once the shutdown ends, the gratuities will be paid, but because the money is meant to be paid to the families quickly to help them pay expenses, the loss of the gratuity could be a hardship. The official said 100 to 150 payments are made a month.

The service member's group life insurance payment of up to $400,000, which comes from the insurance company and not the federal budget, will be paid, the official said."

Littlewolf, I guess I do not see what the issue is.

Three weeks. That is the longest a shutdown has ever gone. Three weeks.

An acquaintance of ours was killed while on duty overseas a few years ago. It was absolutely devastating. He had a wife and young daughters, and every heart I knew went out to them.

My understanding was that protocol was for her to remain under the umbrella of military care, so to speak, for several months. There was a program that was to help her through the process. She wasn't just suddenly kicked to the curb with no support system. And my understanding is that all military personnel were still going to be WORKING... just not being PAID on their normal payday... so the people providing that support would still have been in place for someone in that situation.

Additionally, people absolutely rallied around them. The outpouring not only of love, but of food, of offers for rides and to buy plane tickets to get them places, etc., continued for months. People are touched and moved in very deep ways when they see the families of fallen soldiers, and my observation is that families in that predicament probably don't have time to even *think* about paying bills for several weeks. The whirlwind of activity that I witnessed during the time it took his body to be sent stateside, getting the family from where they were stationed to our town where he was to be buried... that took so much time and energy and coordinating that sitting down to pay all the bills was just not something his widow was in a position to do for awhile.

And my guess is that people who are owed money by families in such situations are surely very patient and wouldn't shut off electricity immediately. I know when my own dad died I got stuck out of state for two weeks and couldn't get home to make our mortgage payment (I didn't have a checkbook with me, didn't have our account number, etc.) I called Bank of America, told them of my situation, and they were extremely gracious.

I have to think that the spouse of a fallen soldier would be met with tremendous understanding if they said that the government shutdown was keeping them from being able to pay something immediately.

Somehow, I don't think that a 3-week delay in getting that $100K will be the biggest crises on the minds of the soldier's family.

wowitsdark, and I guess that I do not understand why it is simply okay with everyone for the very thought of that to happen to a family that paid the ultimate price for ALL of us. I had a discussion with a friend last night and he put a different spin on it for me. IF the people involved were law enforcement & the like VS. the military & federal employees, people would be OUTRAGED at the very thought of it. But since, it is the military and other federal employees, it is OKAY with people.

Guess I was raised with different beliefs than most on here because I was raised that you took care of those that took care of you whether it be a soldier, law officer or someone similar. You nor anyone else will ever get me to belief that it is simply okay to tell those that protect us that we will "pay" you at a later date. Honestly, I have to wonder what that says for our country if that is an acceptable way to do things.


I am leaving this topic with the following thought:

A country is only as strong as its military AND its military is only as strong as the morale of those in it!

I have just one different viewpoint to bring into this discussion. A lot of the newer military personnel that are enlisting are married with kids who have turned to the military after they have lost their civilian jobs due to the economy. A lot of soldiers were struggling already and came into the military as a means to support their families so they wouldn't be a burden to society (welfare/unemployment, etc). Also, a lot of soldiers entered the military after graduating college and found that they could not find a job and needed a way to pay their student loans. These are the type of soldiers that would have been truly hurt by the shut down. With that in mind, nest eggs are a great thing to have but sometimes circumstances don't allow you to have one when you need it.

On the other hand their are numerous ways a soldier can get an emergency loan when something like this arises. Also, several military credit unions were offering assistance.

Littlewolf, nobody is saying it is OKAY - the least of all me. I don't think it is OKAY.

I don't know where you get the idea that anybody here has suggested that the military should be last on the list to get a paycheck. That is ludicrous and not anything ANYONE has even remotely intimated here.

I think what some of us are saying is that it behooves us all to keep the situation in the proper PERSPECTIVE.

It would suck and be a bad situation for anyone in any role - military or civilian - to suddenly not have a paycheck.

But the REALITY of the potential shutdown situation was that IF it had happened it would have been over most likely before anyone would have even gotten hit with any finance charges due to late payments.

It would have been a temporary, very short term inconvenience. NOT the end of the world.

If you knew anything about me, you would know I am a very conservative, pro-military, anti-abortion, pro-personal-responsibility, pro-smaller-government type. I could be a poster child for people who think that even though military conflict is horrible, that sometimes it is necessary to keep the peace, and the men and women who are willing to put their money where their mouth is deserve our utmost appreciation.

That, however, does not mean that I romanticize their position to the point that I can't think objectively about an issue that is just part and parcel of working for the federal government. Having a maximum three week delay (and actually, it likely would have been a MAX of two weeks) in getting a paycheck does not constitute an end-times-like crisis.

Shake whatever you like! I didn't expect to shock anyone.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

Yes, it is being blown WAY out of proportion...WAY!!!! And, as NightOwl stated, perhaps this can be a wake up call to people that they should have a little money in the bank, or at least a credit card with a line of credit they can use in such an "emergency". It was FAR from the catastrophe some were portraying it as, and frankly they look like irresponsible idiots portraying this as such a tragedy. But, it's no fun to say "Everything will be OK. This too shall pass and we will all be fine" now is it?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Everyone has a "story" so to speak. Do you have numbers on these "lot of young soldiers with families"? Also, if they are entering with a college degree, they should be going in as an officer and making a comfortable living, even as a junior grade officer.

I'm just so tired of hearing excuses from people about everything.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

There was absolutely NO need for the foul language, groovygirl!


Edited to add: Thank you to the rest of the ladies for keeping it civil even when we have different opinions on things. Name calling solves absolutely nothing........

Whatever!

(edited by chelmo)

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

The Navy Federal Credit Union and USAA Credit Union both said that they would "loan" pay to those military who banked with them and be repaid when things cleared up. Fortunately, they didn't have to.

I have boys in the Marine Corp and at the Academy in Annapolis. The Marine would not be affected, however the plebe at Navy makes only 50 per pay period and looks forward to payday with a countdown along with the other 1200 plebes. He would not been affected as much as we could have covered if he needed to but there are those there who do not have any support and that money is all they have for the two weeks or so.

I see what people are saying about having excuses as to why it would be a tragedy to not get paid but imo, the military should be the LAST people who should worry about getting paid around here. We know they would be paid eventually but because we wish they would have a savings account, does not mean they do and why don't some of them? Because they expect to get paid every two weeks - Why? Because they work for the military and the government.
The fact that some have just as much respect for them as they do a janitor or whatever means nothing.......at least to me. I do not see the janitor strapping on a weapon and going door to door in Iraq or humping 20 miles in Afghanistan while their wife and baby are home in the US. This is a sore subject for me as that is where my son has been and will be going....he will be fine re:money but I know he worried about some of the junior marines he trains.

When I was 19/20, I worked and if I put in 40 hours/week, I expected to be paid the next Fri. or whenever payday was and I was just a Nordstroms salesgirl. I can't imagine how I would feel if the country that told me over and over that "They supported the troops" didn't.

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

To littlejo and usanmom I simply love everything you wrote and totally agree with it all. These men and woman have laid down their lives to keep our great county from any form of threat. They deserve all the credit , that they are due. Like wow said I know personally I could never do what they do everything, whether physical or mentally and I thank God they can to keep our country safe. It is sad though that our country is suffering so much with so many business's closing. God bless our troops and keep them safe...blessings and peace to all. Catherine

I'm torn....
yes, everyone should have an "emergency" fund, but many don't.
So many of our military have families here while they are somewhere fighting. Those families are not only struggling emotionally with the issues of having a deployed family member, but they may not have a huge family support system for things like emergency childcare (what happens when Mom has to work late, one kid is sick, she is sick?)--then you throw in the potential of not having income for a while? Geez Louise! I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.
Yeah, a Govt. shutdown has only lasted ONLY 3 weeks in the past---but, we're talk about the govt. that can't even agree on what the color of the sky is!
I don't think that people are "poor mouthing" necessarily; would seem that some are speaking out of fear and apprehension.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

There are lots of reasons a person might not be able to make it for three weeks past when a check is due and it's not all due to bad planning. As stated above many military personnel lost their civilian jobs and have children to care for. Heck many civilians are one or two paychecks away from losing their home and also due not always to lack of planning.

I might be missing something here but to me it's unacceptable that those making this sacrifice would have to go even one day with no paycheck no matter what their financial situation is. And to think this could potentially happen simply because the two parties are bickering with each other is deplorable!
And not to change the subject but why have we not heard the Senators, Congressmen, VP & the Prez talking about cutting their salaries? Why is it the enlisted men/women, the middle class, the working poor, etc always have to tighten their belts, go without a check for a few days, have to decide between gas and groceries, go without the little extras?

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I would assume it is also partly due to lack of life experience. I remember the first time in my adult life that I heard the words "Government Shutdown" it sounded (according to the folks on the tube) like the lights were being turned out on the entire nation, elderly people were going to die, and life as we know it would never exist again. I remember one friend who worked for the FSA spitting nails when she mentioned the name "Bush" (as in the elder one) when there was a threat of a shutdown way back when... and I remember her literally calling all her friends and begging us to call our congressmen. I had visions of all of us taking up a collection to help them pay bills for awhile, wondering if they would prefer that we give them cash or food, etc.

In the end, it really was just a blip, and obviously it did not have a lasting impact on anyone's anything. I don't think she even missed a single pay period because of the dates the shutdown happened.

But I'll say it again: If you have a cell phone, if you go out to eat, if you have an iPod, etc (all things you are paying for yourself, not gifts)... then you have disposable income.

We lived frugally when we were first married, but I'd be lying if I said we were uber-responsible and put together a savings account right off the bat. We didn't. We didn't understand why it was important. We lived paycheck to paycheck. The threat of not being paid would have freaked me out to the core.

And if that had happened to us, it would have been a very valuable life lesson. Probably the most valuable lessons I've learned have been through life's hard knocks, and while none of us LIKE the hard knocks... they are to be expected and ultimately, I think we appreciate them if they help us see where we need to grow.

It's deeper than that, though, Anna. By law, until a budget is signed, sealed, and delivered, the government would not have been able to do certain things. And it wasn't just a matter of the sides bickering against each other. It was a matter of negotiating until they could all agree on a budget. I wouldn't expect either side to say, "Ya know, I don't really believe in that program - in fact, it goes against every bit of my moral fiber. But hey... I'll go ahead and vote to fund it just so we can get out of here!"

Interestingly, the Dems could have passed a budget last fall when they had majorities in both houses and the President all on their side of the aisle, but nobody wanted to sign their name to anything that could be used against them during the election cycle. Go figure. Because they put it off until now, they had to deal with checks and balances from the Republicans.

For good or ill, while I certainly don't think a pay cut for high level government officials should be out of the question, what they make has nothing to do with what lower-level government employees can take home. My guess is that if every single congressman and the Pres. agreed to work for free and to let the money they would have earned be distributed evenly among the military, it might mean an extra $5 per year to each man and woman serving their country. It would make for a nice show of empathy, but I just don't think it would make an appreciable difference in anyone's life.

ETA: Here is what I found regarding the number of service people whose pay currently is considered 'military' (either because they are active duty, reserves, or receiving retirement:

With over 1.3 million men and women on active duty, and 684,000 civilian personnel, we are the nation's largest employer. Another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces. More than 2 million military retirees and their family members receive benefits.

That's over 5 million individuals.

Rank and file congress people make $174K / year. There are 535 of them, so the total paid to them is a bit over 93,090,000 (since a few receive more than that).

So.... if all congress people agreed to work for free, if you divided that $93,090,000 by the 5.1M service men and women, they could each get an annual 'bonus' of $18.25 each... or a raise of $1.52 per month.

The #'s I don't have. I got my information based on my husband's career in the military as lead drill sergeant and 1st sergeant. He deals with these families on a daily basis. I found a few articles with reference to the increase of older enlistees due to the economy:
Older Recruits Joining The Army Due To Rising Unemployment

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/us...er=rss&emc=rss

My husband manages over 100 soldiers daily and he had a total of FOUR soldiers who came to him concerned about hardship.

Don't get me wrong, I hate whining woe is me entitlement people as well as you but I just wanted you to perhaps see this problem from a different angle. Not a lot of people could go without pay for a month or longer. You might be able to scrape by with your house payments, car payments, etc. but for how long? If you worked at a private company and the payroll department went on strike and your boss just said, "Oh well, make do with what you have and we will pay you when we can," you would be complaining.

I didn't complain because I have that nest egg but the first thing I thought of was my tenant in my house I'm renting. They are a military family. I got on the phone to my property manager and told him to not worry about late payment fees if the shutdown happens and my tenants can't pay rent.

This situation is a bit different than just overspending. This is not getting a paycheck for work done. No family should have to dip into their savings for that reason.

But see... I think you are not the only one who would have done that. My gut tells me that most every person / business that is owed money by a military member would have had the same level of empathy.

And if they had to dip into savings for this situation... I guess my response is, "So what?" Savings is for emergencies... and this is an emergency.

They were not in danger of NOT being paid. They were in danger of their check being DELAYED, most likely by no more than a couple of weeks. The next check they got would be for double the usual amount, and they could have immediately replaced the savings they had used. The two weeks worth of interest they lost on the amount they took out to pay some bills would probably not have been even enough for a meal for two at McD's.

Nobody LIKES it or thinks it is a good thing when you have to dip into an emergency fund.... but... this is why you have one. For emergencies. And as emergencies go, this is actually probably one of the better ones to have.

If I have a $1,000 emergency fund and have an $800 car repair bill, the $800 comes out, I'm left with $200, and I have to build it back up.

If I have a $1,000 emergency fund and my paycheck is late, I can pull $800 from the fund, pay bills, and then when my paycheck comes, replace it fully, immediately, and never feel any pinch.

People who work as independent contractors - as well as those who own small businesses - rely on people to pay their bills so they can put food on their table. When someone they did work for is late in paying them, they are not only in the situation the military might have been faced with, but they then also have to expend their own money and effort to try to collect what is owed them from their customers.

It's not fun or pleasant or 'okay' for anybody - military, business owner, contractor, etc. - ANYBODY - to be stuck for a few days waiting for the money they are owed to come in, but it happens every single day to *somebody*, and it's good to learn to roll with that punch.

I own some property that we rent out, and have had my renters be late with their payments a time or two at times I was counting on that money to pay our property taxes. When it was late, I was late with our taxes... and I think I paid a $6 penalty. Didn't make me happy... but that's life. It happens.

You are right, this is what an emergency fund is for and the couple of bucks of interest is not going to make or break me. However, my example a few posts above is about the new recruits that my husband is seeing that got into the military because the bad economy already ate up their savings. They are families that chose to enter the military because of lay offs and trying to support their families. Their emergency funds are gone. No, not all those complaining are in that situation and that is where you and I agree. I was just giving an example of why some military families might be stressing over the lack of a paycheck.

I wasn't saying that they should give the money they earn to service people. I was just saying that they should all be forced to take a cut in pay just like other working people have.

Lots of people don't have an emergency fund and some don't because they had to use it in the last few years due to some unforeseen situation(s).

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I was reading some articles about the financial shape that so many American families are in nowdays. I think this is going to be a huge problem. The statistics are shocking.

More than half of all Americans living paycheck to paycheck

"• More than half of all Americans – 55 percent – are living paycheck to paycheck, spending more than or all of their household income."

"• 60 percent of Americans do not have funds on hand to cover unanticipated financial emergencies."

Broke And Getting Broker: 22 Jaw Dropping Statistics About The Financial Condition Of American Families

I don't doubt that, forrest - that many if not most live paycheck to paycheck.

And I know that not every single one of those families abuses the money that they do have....

But honestly... I'll bet most of those families have locked themselves into cell contracts with texting plans for their kids... have DVR... and go out to eat on a regular basis.

Many if not most of the people I know who live a middle class lifestyle fit that profile. They have all the toys, all the kids get cars at 16... and yet they *do* worry tremendously about their bills, and have CC debt.

It's crazy that we have become so wedded to the idea that "If it exists and I have peers who have it, it is in my price range!"... even if it really is NOT something we can afford.

I think part of the reason why people are complaining so much is because of frustration with the government.
If Congress did it's job on time then there wouldn't have been a problem of a possible shutdown, but they didn't. So why would everyone else have to pay the price but not them? Congress would still get paid during the shutdown.

I agree that our society has turned towards a "have to have it now", instant gratification society. I hope I am teaching my children "wants" versus "needs". I hope they realize that if we "want" to go to Disneyworld we need to SAVE for it. My biggest fear is that they see me use my bank card to buy everything and they never see me with cash (convenience plus cash back on my card). I always tell them that our family does not charge anything the money comes from our bank account. It is scary that so many people think that what they can afford means if they can make the credit card payment every month.

I was in charge of our PTA's "giving tree" at Christmas time this year. We adopted two families that couldn't afford to provide Christmas gifts for their children. The first family was easy to reach (via cell phones) and asked for XBox 360 games (latest and greatest at $60 each), Ipod cards, clothes, jewelry, etc. When I delivered the items, the daughter answered the door with her smart phone in her hand. A car newer than mine was parked in the driveway. I unloaded the gifts and never even got a thank you.

The second family was a different story. I had to talk with the nurse at the school because they didn't have a phone (single mom with two little girls). They asked for a bike (used was fine), gameboys (used was fine) and a game for the game boy. They also asked for winter coats, hats and gloves. We took lots of extra stuff to this family - gift cards to WalMart, extra food, etc. They were so appreciative. The kids came out to help me unload the car and gave me hugs. I heard them tell their mom that they were actually going to have Christmas now. Wow... This woman was doing what she could and had cut out the things that weren't essential. That made me feel good. The first family made me sick. There were families that we weren't able to help at Christmas and yet this family had better "toys" than me. It goes back to accountability.

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Kim

This is exactly why I never participate in "giving or angel trees". I've seen so much abuse that I could write a book. I like to personally choose where my money goes and to whom.

.....<spinning off topic>

Have you thought about anonymously taking a few sacks of groceries (since you know where they live) and leaving the items for the second family? I think it would be a nice thing to do since you know they value anything and everything.

I have done this for strangers. I tape the newspaper article to the sack(s) which I've tried to take into consideration the number and ages of the family regarding the contents. I drive by to make sure I have the right place, spy a place to put the sacks and then do it in a flash. I don't want them to know who I am.

dl