It's a fact. 45% of households pay NO federal income tax. I think the figure is staggering. I cannot fathom that we have a tax code, loopholes, deductions, etc to allow this. I have paid every year, from my first job as a teen.

I wonder what I did wrong to not be on the 45% side my entire life. No wonder I am worn out.

dl

Of the 69 million who don’t owe income taxes, 5 million make somewhere between $50,000 and more than $1 million. The remaining 64 million earned less than $50,000.

But this doesn’t mean those individuals had no tax liability last year. According to the center, in addition to state and local taxes, many owed payroll taxes, which support Medicare and Social Security.

Of the number of people who don’t pay income taxes, 49 million pay payroll taxes. And of those pay payroll taxes, 34 million pay more than they get back on their Federal returns.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I do good to keep up with my own life, I have no time to worry about what the others are paying or doing.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

We all as a nation be concerned and worried. So many people are lossing their jobs and so many business's have gone under. The gas prices are crazy, we here all work and contribute and yet we sit back and wonder where does the money go. There is serious talk at my school alone there will be major cuts of teachers. In my building we only have a staff of 34 teachers and they want to lay off 15, that is major. For us who have 10 years plus we are safe, plus I am a Kindergarten paraprofessional and our salary is not like the teachers. We all again should be worried and concerned and then thankful for what we have. Peace and blessings to all.. Catherine

I hope that your income never falls low enough to be included in the group that doesn't pay taxes.

There are many reasons people don't pay taxes. Often they don't "pay" taxes with their return however they have been having deductions taken all year and don't get any back.

I saw this statistic on tv and I wouldn't put too much stock in it. It's probably skewed quite a bit.

I do find it unfair that I, with no children at home, and only having had one child to be somewhat financially responsible, get nothing back while those who have lots of children, many of whom are on some form of assistance, get huge tax breaks and refund checks. That means I'm paying for the schools their children are going to, the streets they're driving on, the police who protect them, food stamps/hosing assistance/welfare checks & free lunches, and everything else tax dollars pay for while they spend their refund checks on fancy cell phones, new tvs, video games, etc. I still have old tvs in my house, I have a dumb phone not a smart one and still don't have my Wii because I have priorities.
Go figure.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

The article was in my mainstream newspaper. There were stats and sources to back it up and also (sorry, I already set at curb for recycling) a millionaire who pays just $2000ish and is part of a group in which they realize they should be paying more.

adr, the 45% pay NO federal taxes - it's not that they had deductions and then didn't pay additional come April 15. No taxes, as in none at all. The earned income and head of household status can net people getting money BACK over and above what they paid in. And we wonder why we are umpteen trillion in debt as a county.

I am very with you on the deduction (reward) for having children which in turn, means more to support with the free lunch and breakfast, healthcare, head start, housing, utilities, food stamps, etc. Once a person knows what there is, no wonder they don't work, they spend their time navigating the system and getting what is available.

Today, I witnessed yet another case of someone knowing the government will take care of their situation (even though they just got over $1200 cash and didn't declare it / want to admit it) When I asked how they knew to pursue this, the answer was, their sister-in-law was taken care of. She knew exactly what to do and where to go, because of experience.

This is something every single one of us who work should be aware of. We've been broken for a long time and no politician will own up to contributing to this mess. None will take responsibility. We need change for sure, but not the kind that we've lived so far.

dl

Dl I totally agree with all you said in your last post and yes we need a big change and can only hope whomever gets voted to be the potus next time will do a better job. America for me is the greatest country, while I will always be a left winged liberal democrat, I have admitted and will admit Obama did not be the president I had sincerely hoped him to be. I realize no one is perfect, he did start with a huge mess, but we are still in a huge mess. Honestly the bottom line at this time our country is in I sincerely do not have sincere and 100 percent confidence or trust in any politican and that is truly sad. Peace and blessings to all... Catherine

We "all" don't have the time to keep up with what everyone else does. How much they make, what they buy, what they eat. etc. I know I don't. That is what I am talking about. Also, I learned long ago that worry changes nothing.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

It's not about "worrying". It's about realizing what the inequities are and to try them more equitable.

It really doesn't make sense, for example, that a family can have four, six,or even more children and those who are childless or who have chosen, usually for financial reasons, to have to take up the slack.

It's also not right that tax payers provide families with rent subsidies, food stamps,and welfare checks then
those families irresponsibly spend their money on new toys while the very people whose taxes are providing them with all this has to choose between groceries & gas.

It's a good thing some people pay attention to what others are doing or we'd have even more crime, child abuse, welfare fraud, etc.

It makes sense to pay attention what's going on in the world around a person. If someone chooses to wear blinders that's their business however I choose to be well informed, educated, & enlightened so I know what is going on.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Anna totally agreed 100 percent with all you just wrote.. we all should be concerned what is happending to our country and realize the trouble we are in and hopefully soon things will be better for all. Peace and blessings to all... Catherine

But being concerned and realizing what is happening and "hoping" it will change makes no difference whatsoever. Not trying to be argumentative at all. Just saying that worrying about something will never change it. Unless we are willing to take action, why worry? I am informed, but I don't worry because most of it is out of my control. Do the best you can, help those you can and live life. And VOTE!!!

Nothing ever stays the same, life is changing in these United States and it is an interesting time to be living in.

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Melissa

Melissa no problems, believe while I say I am concerned and worried I have much more on my plate right now to worry about, and your right it is out of my control , wish I could control somethings lol, but I do hope the future will be better for all and yes I totally agree about Voting, wish more people did vote. Peace and blessings... Catherine

I guess I've just come to the point in my life, well long before this actually, that a "good" life and future is not our "right" as human beings. There are many things that we can control to some degree, but life is what it is. I believe in a sovereign God who is in control of everything. He's got it all in His hands, and while it does depend on me to make good decisions for my life, the rest is really His plan. There are consequences for our actions, both as individuals and as a country. We reap what we sow. From my world view, our country is reaping exactly what we have sown. There is no getting out of it. So, like I said, it is an interesting time to live and observe.

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Melissa

It's no shock to me that again, my family got back more than we paid in, and I think it's ludicrous. We have two kids who are of the age that means our tax software awarded us a child tax credit for them. NOT the earned income credit, which is based, I believe, on how much you save (and we do save for retirement, some of it pre-tax dollars and some post-tax dollars). We came thisclose to being able to itemize but were just under the amount that would have allowed it. We paid off our house several years ago (thank you eBay income - and yes, I did report it and yes, I did pay self-employment taxes on it!) so we have no mortgage interest to itemize - only our charitable contributions (and we do 10% to our church, plus other special things as we are aware of needs that arise).

Our state has a lowish cost of living, and I believe tax tables take into account average incomes across the nation, which is likely part of the problem.

We are NOT poor. We are not wealthy, but we are not in need of food, shelter, or medical care.

I know that the 'theory' behind our system is that we 'get' now because we'll be 'giving' in a few years when our kids are no longer seen as 'standard deductions'. They are going to tax me MORE in a few years to make up for where we are TODAY, which is why I'm not hurrying to send our refund in to the feds as a donation. I have no desire to, at the end of our taxpaying career have only participated in the part of the system that over-penalizes us for not having kids.

I think we'll stimulate the economy with it by giving it to the orthodontist, and in ten years when our kids are grown I'll be contributing to somebody else's ortho bills.

Regardless... I do NOT care for this system. I'd much rather Uncle Sam didn't play social engineer and try to reward me now and penalize me later.

But some people are too much into what other do and know exactly what they make a nd spend, etc. and I do not have the time nor the desire to worry about all of that. I'm glad you do, though. Maybe you will save the world.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

exactly.....

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

In my opinion, it's not responsible to bury your head in the sand and not make observations about whether our systems are working or failing. The only way to do that is to observe people (as individuals) and demographics on a larger scale.

Years ago, teachers had 60 students in a classroom, no paraprofessionals, and no discipline issues they couldn't handle on their own.... and kids learned stuff. A lot of stuff.

Today the mantra is 'smaller class size, more one on one help from paras, more money!"... and kids learn a lot less. A whole lot less.

It's costing us a lot more to educate kids, and we are getting a lot less for our money. Is it never appropriate to ask why? Is it never appropriate to look at the group at large and find common denominators among the individuals within the group and see if there is some causation issue we can point to that explains why, despite all our best efforts and all the increased personnel and increased spending, kids are learning less and growing up to earn less (and need more)?

Personally... I think it is the breakdown of the nuclear family that is largely to blame. We joke about how Ozzie and Harriet and the Cleavers never really existed.... but the truth is, they kind of did. People watched them because they were in sync with society's values of that time period. Not every family was LIKE them, but generally people thought it was best TO be like them, and found the Beav's quandaries and parental solutions entertaining.

Today, kids have their own tv shows available 24/7 (not just on Saturdays) and the parents are more often than not clueless or absent (the Simpsons? Billy Ray? iCarly?), and are very rarely there to give solid (and sometimes unwelcome) guidance. Ultimately it is the child in the show who had the right intuition, and the adult just didn't take their feelings into consideration and has to apologize to their child in the end.

It's a real 180 from what we saw when i was a kid. Miriam Cunningham was a ditz, but Richie loved and respected her, and her advise was usually sound. Howard wasn't highly involved, but he was a stabilizing figure and Richie and Joanie didn't want to disappoint him.

The very things we find entertaining have changed, and I think that signifies a change in our value structure. Parents aren't seen as being as important as they once did. Fathers aren't seen as important. Marriage is an option. Commitment is overrated.

And kids, absent structure, can't focus.... and then teachers can't control them... and because they spent five years watching Disney Channel and seeing that adults are rarely right, they see little reason to respect them or obey them.... and the problems get worse.

If we don't look at PEOPLE and try to figure out why they aren't progressing in life as they should, and try to figure out what would CHANGE that for them.... what kind of people are we?

The kind that have a life, have no extra time to watch what all the rest of the people do every minute of every day with every dollar they have, and the kind that realize that even if they did watch them all, they can't change what they are doing. That's me!

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

Well said, as usual wow. I was raised in an Ozzie and Harriet kind of family. We definitely had problems, but the respect level for our parents was definitely there, and still is. I see it throughout my extended family for my generation. But, not so much for this one. Although there are many of the young families I do see it in, the majority, not so much.

I guess I never thought through the whole school scenario. Possibly because I homeschooled from the time my kids were in the 6th and 3rd grade. But, I see what you are talking about. Teaching less is costing more. Why? Spoiled, bratty parents and children.

This may have nothing to do with any of this, but it came to mind as I wrote...

This morning DH and I were at McD's getting breakfast. In front of us were a father and son of about 12 I would guess. Two peas in a pod. Expensive jeans, shirts shoes, very stylish. Big watches, fancy haircuts. They looked great really. And I thought it was cool how the boy wanted to emulate his dad, they seemed tight, you know?? What bothered me though is what the boy was emulating. "COOL" They were just cool. You could see their priorities, and I left hoping the father was also setting other standards for this child who clearly respected him.

I guess all that to say......I'm not sure I'd want to be his teacher. lol I know I am probably assuming a lot from a short encounter....but when the dad got on his fancy cell phone and put it on SPEAKER in the restaurant....well, you see what I'm getting at. I hope lol.

THere are all kinds of reasons children these days are not respecting adults, why we need more supervision in classrooms....so what is the answer??

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Melissa

Just had a thought about our school system and how it has evolved. Didn't school used to be a privilege? I'm thinking Little House on the Prairie here. lol. Education did not begin as a "right". Now it is and that right is being taken advantage of to the point that the teacher's and school systems rights are as far as discipline and such are out the window.

My goodness I'm rambling today.........wowitsdark....Help!! lol

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Melissa

For someone who claims not to care what other people are doing you sure spend a lot of time criticizing people on this forum who are expressing their opinions based on years of living, observing, working with people, etc.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

adr....sit down. Again, I am very much in agreement with you. gg always knows it all and in fact, she usually knows much less than she professes, and I am talking about issues and facts, not just opinions. Minimally, after you get past how grating she is, one can derive some amusement from her ramblings from time to time.

dl

wow - while I can't define eic, I can tell you it has nothing to do with how much you save or invest. It is yet another way for some to be paid back more than they paid in. This past year, I really concentrated on our work retirement plans and rira contributions since our house was paid off. I was able to put aside well over 20% of our income and it simply wasn't taxable because it's retirement. It had no bearing on the eic. If I have time in a bit, I will try to see what I can find on eic.

dl

I like to tell it like it is, but not worry about what other people buy.....just those that ALWAYS talk about it.

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I wasted money today, too....on stuff I did not even need. How ya like that, town gossip?

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

Here is are some excerpts from irs.gov about eic, which is definitely not tied to investments or retirements (although it states a limit on same). It is yet another tax break for some and a reward for having more children.


The Earned Income Tax Credit or the EITC is a refundable federal income tax credit for low to moderate income working individuals and families. Congress originally approved the tax credit legislation in 1975 in part to offset the burden of social security taxes and to provide an incentive to work. When EITC exceeds the amount of taxes owed, it results in a tax refund to those who claim and qualify for the credit.
To qualify, taxpayers must meet certain requirements and file a tax return, even if they do not have a filing requirement.

Earned Income and adjusted gross income (AGI) must each be less than:

$43,352 ($48,362 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
$40,363 ($45,373 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
$35,535 ($40,545 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
$13,460 ($18,470 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children
Tax Year 2010 maximum credit:

$5,666 with three or more qualifying children
$5,036 with two qualifying children
$3,050 with one qualifying child
$457 with no qualifying children

dl

Dl thanks so much for the last post and providing all that information. To GG lets please all get along, life is hard enough, it is so much better to share our thoughts and points and then move on. Thanks so much. Peace and blessings... Catherine

Interesting. We use TaxAct, and I feel certain that it ... well, we have never gotten an EITC. And I know that this year, at some point in the process, the software said that because we had ___________ we were not eligible for the earned income credit. I thought it had something to do with savings. I see that there is a mention of ... was it $3,100 in investment income? We did sell some stock that had appreciated by more than that this past year (though overall our portfolio is still DOWN, that particular stock sale was a gain). However, that is not something that happens every year by any means, and we have never qualified for an EITC, so there has to be more to it than that.

Maybe I'll run our software review in a bit and see what it says when it gets to that section.

ETA: I just re-ran that part of the software, and this is the message I get:

Earned Income Credit - Summary

The earned income credit is not available on this return for the following reason(s):

* Your investment income exceeds the maximum allowable of $3,100.

The system automatically calculates the earned income credit with the information available to it and constantly recalculates the credit, if necessary, so the credit has been included in the refund or balance due previously. The amount of your earned income credit will change automatically if you make any changes to your income, filing status, or dependents (under age 19, students, or permanently and totally disabled).

-------------------

I can't help but wonder how you people feel about those who work full-time jobs and STILL don't bring home enough money to support a family.

My husband and I both work full-time jobs. He is self-employed and between our two jobs last year, we fell well into the range of EIC.

We've experienced the worst kind of rollercoaster as far as our income over the years.

When I was pregnant in 1995, my husband and I worked for his father at his beachfront business. When Hurricane Opal came through that summer it obliterated his business (and I do mean obliterated, it literally was washed from the face of the earth). So we were suddenly jobless (in every sense of the word) and fortunately, had a fair amount of savings to carry us through. We were paying for our own health insurance (to the tune of $2000 a quarter) and still had to pay that.

We managed to rebound and lived very frugally. In retrospect, we were living below poverty levels (after I had my DS and my husband was working construction as his father decided not to rebuild his business at the beach) and my DH was bringing home $329 a week. If it rained and he missed one day? He brought home $279.

Fortunately, he found another job after a year. During this time we had NO assistance even though I'm sure we qualified.

We were doing well again and decided to build a house and have another baby. DH was self-employed and we were socking away money for our house. Then DH was offered a job with a large, well established company and took it. Things were going really well and we had a steady income with health insurance.

During this point, the only assistance we were getting was WIC, after the birth of my second child.

DH stayed with this company for several years until one of his "customers" made him an even better job offer. He went to work as a district manager for a small business chain on the Gulf coast. We were finally "comfortable". He made more money than we'd ever made (I was able to stay home with my boys while he worked full-time) and things were fantastic...until the owner decided to sell the business after Hurricanes Ivan and Katrina.

We were blindsided by this and DH was given a severance package of $5000. The new owners were/are a large, nationwide chain and cut DH's salary by 2/3, which was an incredibly substantial loss.

We decided that this was the opportunity we'd been looking for for DH to begin his own business (something he'd wanted to do for a few years). We leveraged ourselves into this new venture in late 2007 only to have the bottom fall out of our local economy (post-Hurricane Ivan and Katrina re-building/real estate boom) and then out of the nation.

Then in 2010 we had the BP oil spill, which really seemed to put the coup de grace on any hopes of business we had.

We have gone through our savings over these past four years. We now have two teenaged boys (who, let's face it, are more expensive than babies or toddlers) and we are BROKE.

My DH is actively looking for another FT job because his business just can't support us.

I am beyond thrilled that beginning on May 1st, I will have health insurance for myself and my DH for the first time in four years.

In 15 years time, I have gone from being a SAHM, to re-entering the workforce in a part-time capacity, to working full-time just so we can stay afloat. And trust me when I say we are barely maintaining. And you know what's helped keep us afloat over the past three months? Our tax return with EIC.

And you know what else? My kids have been on Medicaid for the past three years. I bet my kids have been to the doctor a dozen times between the two of them over those years (and mostly for routine immunizations). And we received food stamps for a year, too--because sometimes things happen that are out of your control and you HAVE to ask for help.

I know that I was so embarrassed to have to use my EBT card in the grocery line. I've read the threads here...I know that people only want you to eat bread and fruit and drink water. And Heaven forbid you buy anything "extravagant" with your EBT card, lest someone feel the need to chastise you in line. (Trust me, it happens.)

And I receive no pleasure from filling out my kids' school paperwork with "Medicaid" as their source of health insurance. Let's face it, it's embarrassing, too.

So even though you do everything "right" doesn't mean you won't find yourself on the other end of the spectrum one day. I pray every night that we will find ourselves back in that percentile where we're making enough money that we do pay back into income tax. I would much rather be there than where we are right now.

Since I started this thread, I will respond as "you people" although I've already expressed my opinion. I can condense much of where my attitude for taking care of you and yours comes from. I am one of six children and my mom never, ever sought assistance of any kind. She did always have a full time job, although our father did not, and they divorced. He paid the first two small child support payments and then kept right on living his life his way. No alimony.

We ate, had shelter, clothes, and a few other things here and there. We might not have had enough, or what we liked, or what we wanted, but we had because she provided. She could have been out there signing up for every thing she/we were entitled to, but she did not, instead being successful at work and raising us.

I've shared part of my life only to show that I have lived through hardship, learned how to overcome, and been motivated to not be in that position myself.

Your situation sounds like many. Your family has worked hard and enjoyed success and easy times, as well as hard times. No one is guaranteed anything whether it be a job, food, insurance, health care, etc. We've taught our children to be taken care of and even spoiled. The fact is, our government is broke, and for people to be GIVEN money back over and above what was paid in is ridiculous. Our legislative folks have for years, regardless of party affiliation, gotten us into this mess and the current ones are stirring it instead of working out viable solutions.

dl

I absolutely agree with you that the system is BROKE(N), both literally and figuratively. And to be honest, I don't know what the solution is.

My kids know what it is to go without. My kids know that if they want something, they have to work and save for it. My kids know that we've been on assistance and that it's something to keep to themselves, lest they become the butt of a joke.

Granted, my kids are active and we do what we can to keep them involved in the activities they enjoy. My oldest is in Boy Scouts, karate and swim team while my youngest is in band. They also know how much a trumpet costs, how much karate lessons are a month and that we have to work to afford them.

They know I shop at the thrift store and with coupons. They both know how to shop sales, clearance racks and utilize coupons to maximize their spending potential.

I grew up in a household where we had to do without. I had to quit band in the 9th grade because my mom pawned my instrument. My parents worked but had absolutely no skills with any type of money management. We were POOR. We went without OFTEN. I started working when I was 13 years old and worked until I had my first child (and still worked intermittently, whether it be PT at Mom's Day Out or otherwise). My parents NEVER got assistance...and we certainly could've used it. I vividly remember being hungry as a child, opening up the refrigerator and finding nothing inside, save for a half-brown head of lettuce and a box of baking soda.

We frequently had our electricity turned off. We didn't have a telephone until I was in middle school.

So what's the solution? Is there room for a happy medium to assist people when they need it while leaving those who "live" off of assistance to fend for themselves?

What about the parents who work full-time at Home Depot and WalMart (etc), yet only make $7-$10 an hour? Even between two incomes (and if they have two children) I'm sure they still qualify for assistance programs? Do we begrudge them as much as we begrudge those who don't work? Or is that the base problem in itself?

I guess what bothers me is that the world will always need someone to make fries at McDonald's and ring up your purchases at Dollar General and these jobs will never pay enough to support a (small) family--so what to do? Not everyone can go to college, not everyone will go to college, and there's no guarantee that if you even do go to college that you'll have a successful career.

Where's the answer? I'm not even sure myself. I just know that I reserve judgment for a lot of folks these days...

(And I sincerely hope you don't see this as argumentative or hostile, I'm truly curious to see others' perspectives and opinions.)

There are people who genuinely need help, who don't abuse it, and who work hard to try to provide for their families. There are those who do literally nothing to make their situations better and there are those who fall somewhere in the middle.

I don't mind people getting food stamps or assistance. When my son was young I was a single parent and although I worked I still received assistance. I still don't understand how people have such fancy clothes and toys on assistance. The amounts I received were too small to buy toys and most of our clothes were second hand. So I understand.

It's the abuse of the programs that get to me. The people who feel that, by virtue of birth alone, they are entitled to be supported for the rest of their lives.

It's very hard out there right now and there are less alternatives than in years past. My Mom, God Bless Her, is 76 and she constantly brings up how the immigrants she knew paid their mortgages with money the wives made taking in ironing and paid the rest of the bills and bulked up the bank account with the husbands' money. But alas you can't make much taking in ironing these days. And it's hard to find a job even harder to find a decent one.

But we really need to clean up the system and make it so that, for example, if you can afford to buy a $200 phone then you must not need food stamps that month because if you can afford to spend that you must have enough for food because what kind of moron would spend that kind of money on a phone if you had no food?
Just an example.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

My guess is that they really aren't spending that kind of money on cell phones.

My guess is that they are charging that kind of money on their credit card to buy cell phones, and that the interest rate is sky high, and they make the minimum payments and may be behind on them.

And then they'll have to declare bankruptcy....

Good point Wow.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Dl similar suituation when my grandfather passed away at the age of 37 leaving my 34 year grandmother with 7 children this was on 12/23/43. After the funeral literally my grandma was left with only a few dollars. At the time my mom was the youngest 9 and the oldest 16. Already the 14 and 16 year old were working which helped and my grandma worked all day in a factory making those long very underwear they would wear, then at night she would take the trolly car over the bridge into Manhattan and clean some office buildings. And little by little they made it work. My grandma worked very hard and so did the other children help to make money and clean the house and cook. When my grandfather came to this country he had to learn the language, and literally came here to America with very little, but he learned fast and started working at a cemetary and worked his way up to provide for his 7 children. Sadly he got throat cancer and passed away way too young. Now it seems like all these people are coming here and they do not learn the language and they abuse our system, when it really should be used for the people who truly need it. No one helped nor did my grandma ask for help. Peace and blessings to all... Catherine

I am in the top percent of earners and happy to pay. I don't know how average earners get by. I see the average household income is about 35000. Let's say this average household has 2.5 children in elementary school.

FICA = 7.65% = $2700/yr
I would think a basic living situation is about $1500/month - $18,000/yr
Utilities (electric/gas/sewer/trash)about $200/month - $2400/yr
Food about 500/month - $6000/yr
Cars cost about $15000 and last about 7 yrs. Upkeep is about $200 yr if nothing goes wrong. = $150/month = $1800/yr
Gas $100/month = $1200/yr
Car insurance = $800/yr
Health Insurance = $300/month - 3600

That leaves a man, woman, and 2 kids with 1 car and about negative $1500/yr for extras = savings, emergencies, Christmas, birthdays, haircuts, clothing, occasional babysitters, cell phone, internet, a computer, printer, school supplies, Dr. co-pays, occasional trip to relatives or the movies,

I know you can live in a crappy place for $800/month, but then you face crappy schools and a less than encouraging environment for your kids to grow up in. You might also be lucky enough to have a home that is already paid for. But, that is the exception, not the rule.

Let's say we tax this group 3% state and 3% Federal tax -- that is about $2k. That family now has negative $3500 for emergencies, savings, or anything that makes life a bit fun.

I am not making excuses -- there are ways to scrimp and save. And, if someone is in a situation with 2.5 kids and makes that little money, there were choices involved. But, my worry about this thread is not the 55% that are paying, but the numbers who make quite a bit but who don't pay and the growing number who can't afford basics, much less have their income taxed more than FICA.