Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure - CNN.com


This is something many posters have mentioned on this board (and others) but it's the first time I think it's actually happened.

opinions?

Sounds like a good idea to me but I also wonder, how effective can it be if, as the article says, someone who fails a drug test can just choose someone else in their family to receive the $ in their name instead of in the drug user's name...

Are they going to also provide some type of counseling? I do think it's a good idea but not if someone else can get the money. I suppose they don't want children going without but that's the whole point of it! Punish the whole family for the person's behavior and either remove that person from the household or force them to go through treatment. In the long run it would hopefully force people to take that first step. No you can't force someone to change but often in treatment once the person has been forced to go clean for a while they see the point of it and do choose to continue down the right path.
And we need to stop wasting our hard earned tax dollars by giving them money to spend on drugs. It makes me sick that hard working people have to economize & make hard choices about how to prioritize their spending while the tweekers and crackheads and junkies are off spending like there's no tomorrow eating out, buying drugs, buying fancy clothes, shoes and purses. I took my client to the food stamp office last month and every single person was either texting or talking on their phone. Some of the women had kids that looked like they got their clothes at the mission and the women had Coach bags and fancy shoes. Oh and one had tattoos all over the face. How is anyone ever going to get a decent job with tattoos on her face?
I really hope this works and other states follow suit.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Just something to ponder---could some of the abusers/users be self-medicating for an undiagnosed mental illness? And while it's not right, and not too terribly effective, it does happen.
I know several people who self medicate. It's easier than dealing with the problem and working to make one's self better.

Now, if a person tests "hot", providing them with addiction counseling/rehab might open up the door for mental illness treatment. I'm kind of rambling.

Undiagnosed mental illness (and untreated) can account for a lot of bad decisions that could lead a person down a dark, dark road.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I don't pretend to know the answer.

Nobody wants children to go without because they have stupid parents.

The reality is that it's a cycle. Stupid parents rear their impressionable children to eventually become stupid adults.

When we go ahead and dole out benefits 'for the sake of the children', in many regards I think we actually just feed the very system that will result in many of them being just like the parents who had them but cannot support them.

Disclaimer: I'm not talking about all families on assistance. Not by a long shot. But it's a sad truth that kids whose parents seemed irresponsible back when I encountered them as a fellow kindergarten parent are now the high school kids who are my kids' peers that are giving the teachers trouble and being suspended for alcohol and drug issues.

When the kids are little, we ache for them. We put a bandaid on their situations because we don't like to see small children in need.

Unfortunately, that doesn't fill their REAL need - responsible parents - and ten years down the road, the kids are well on their way to replicating the behavior they have witnessed in the home their entire life.

It impacts our educational system. It impacts our economy. It impacts our jails and our prisons.

Are we really helping those kids when we give them free food but cannot control the single most powerful influences in their lives - their parents?

I don't know how you *fix* a broken family, but really, that's where it needs to start.

Not every family on assistance fits this profile, but the ones who would get caught in the net identified in the original post in this thread do fit that scenario.

Well, it seems like the alternatives are to let the kids starve, or get the government involved in parenting issues.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Some of the resources that are to be used for the children are being misspent so in those situations the kids "starve" and do without even with government assistance.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

So you're advocating for the government to get involved in parenting issues?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Could you be more subtle?

Personally, I don't like the idea of the government being involved in parenting issues. I do like the idea of the government imposing accountability in the benefits they dole out. I wouldn't be opposed to ... say... short-term assistance to account for those who are recently out of work. Once that time period is up, there would be community service requirements tied to that assistance.

Obviously, if the parents are on drugs (which is the type of parents addressed in the original post) they are endangering their children, and in that case child protective services should step in.

This is from a governor who bought his own campaign/governorship and with the slogan "let's get to work". So far, he's pretty much laid people off.

I do not want the government involved any more because it will end up costing more and it won't be effective. Illegal drugs - do we then arrest these people or look the other way while slipping them the money anyway via a willing family member? The best of both worlds to them in this case !

Here is the essential root of the problem. You have to attain a certain age to vote, drive, drink, join the military. Yet any two people who can get body parts together can now become PARENTS. I have a radical idea. Birth control of two different methods by both people until they are established. Someone else's "right" to have children should not infringe upon my right to not have to support them.

Yup, the "poor children". And yet we've got generations of the "poor children" who have continued the circle. So we only perpetuate the "rights" of those who can't afford their decisions and I mean more than financially as far as not being able to support their decisions!

Let's cut off all aid for a period of 3 - 5 years and see where we are then. My bet is like our grandparents, great granparents, people did without, valued what they did have far more than a priority of getting a new cell phone just because it has a new app. They pulled themselves up and out and worked very hard for a better life. What they had was theirs, and pride was theirs as well.

It's broken and it needs fixed. Radically.

dl

I agree, dl.

I realize the left sees what you are saying as heartless.

But in reality, it is just the opposite.

Nobody likes the idea of anybody going through hard times with no safety net, but by and large that's when people get down to brass tacks and make things happen. And when people are making things happen, things get better for them. That personal sense of satisfaction is the most powerful drug of all.

At the heart of the matter is whether you believe people are capable, or whether you think they can only make it if they get 'help'. If you think they can't get through without help, they will think they have to have it, too. Over time, that lack of confidence erodes the very attributes that would have made them happy, confident people.

Personally, I'm a fan of private help for people in need. The left will say there are too many people who need help for the private sector to care for them, but I don't think that gives a clear picture of the situation.

Our church has specifically helped three families to the tune of about $150K over the last year and a half. We are not a wealthy church. That amount is more than all of our salaries combined, and we've had a total of five people (2 full timers and three part timers) on staff. I'd guess that the average household income of our church family is about $30K - $45K. Not poor, but not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination.

One family had a son that had some serious psychological issues that required inpatient care that insurance did not cover. The family was in no way able to cover the $100K+ cost of treatment. We stepped in and took care of most of it.

Two other families faced major medical crises, and church members pitched in and did whatever they could to help raise specific amounts of money to take care of some five figure needs. They did it.

And this doesn't take into account the 10 - 20 families who have needed additional financial assistance due to job loss or unexpected problems that left them short.

I guarantee you that the assistance we gave those families was 100x sweeter than a check in the mail from Uncle Sam. It was given in love, and the recipients were very thankful and emotionally touched to know that we cared enough about them to help them. They watched our church family work hard and sacrifice to help them, and when someone sacrifices for you, I think the most typical reaction is to NOT want to burden them by continuing to 'need' their help for eternity (unless there is a need that just won't go away - we have several physically and / or mentally disabled individuals who will always need help no matter what). When you KNOW the people who are lovingly sacrificing to get you through, it changes the whole equation.

It could be said, "Not everybody HAS a church family. There are people who don't even believe in God. Who is going to help them????" My guess is that there are churches that won't require you to be a card carrying member to extend generosity to you. And my guess is that food pantries and other such places won't quiz you as to your beliefs when you walk in the door.

When assistance comes from nameless, faceless government agencies, it's a lot easier to lose the emotional incentive that comes from knowing who is helping you.

*sigh* yes, it's broken.
I'm mortified that I had to apply for public assistance. And equally mortified at how easy it was to obtain! (if that makes sense?) I provided paper documentation, which could have been fake (mine wasn't)---and my caseworker did not even investigate the documentation. Was way too easy.

I know that being so humiliated and embarrassed about being on public assistance is the exception. I'd love to find a job! I can't stand not working and feeling like I'm leech on society.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

marilyn, it's sad to say it, but the only reason you would feel that way is because of the abusers and the stigma they created.

I hope you find something soon - I know you'd rather be working than not!

Use the money we spend criminalizing drugs and instead make them legal, thus safer. Offer more and better drug treatment plans, and really help them find jobs. I realize that decriminalizing drugs would put thousands out of work, but I don't find that a legitimate reason to continue this farce of a "war on drugs". We would need a lot fewer prisons, less of a legal system, fewer judges and lawyers, fewer prison employees. Many addicted people raise children, hold jobs, pay taxes and so can many of the rest. The ones that can afford their drugs remain in society with few or no consequences. They might be your best friend, the person next door or your child's teacher.

The war on drugs is another war on the poor and under educated. No matter what system you put in place, some will fall through the cracks, some will look for the cracks and many will avoid the cracks. But sometimes you do what you can with what you are given and right now we are not doing what we can. A drug addict will do whatever it takes for that next fix. Between those times, they can love their children, act responsibly to some extent but when that fix is not coming those kids go by the wayside. Expecting addicts who are cut off from the public dole to suddenly wake up, stop doing drugs and become good parents is not gong to happen to the vast majority. I think drugs or not, get them jobs, expect them to perform, help them where needed and punish them where needed as well. Furnish them their drugs, expect them to get a job, raise their kids and pay their taxes and many will do just that. That's what most of them want to do anyway, but because of the need to constantly fight for that next fix, everything they are capable of goes down the drain. I would rather my taxes went for the drugs, the programs, the job help, the daycare, and maybe classes in living skills than pay for another prison, another courtroom, another judge, lawyer etc. to ruin more lives than we have already.

We have created this society with our archaic ideas, beliefs and laws and adding more burdens to the already staggeringly burdened is not the answer. If nothing else, there should be someone with the guts to try this as a pilot program for a few years and see what happens. Unfortunately guts are in as short supply these days as a politician with morals.

If children are being abused or neglected and/or are not getting the food, clothing and other resources they need to thrive then yes I think the proper authorities should get involved. I'm talking about lack of food not giving them the "wrong" foods, I'm talking about dirty, too small clothes, not the "wrong" kind of clothes, I'm talking about situations where the child's welfare is at risk.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I agree, as well. What we're doing now isn't working at all, so I think we need a drastic re-work.

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Kim

Well i think it is stupid to pass that law if you can take the test, not pass and then give the benifits to another adult in the house. That makes totally no scence at all!! I lost my job, dh hours got cut, we have 2 kids and no jobs available, unemployment is gone and so i applied we get FS and would be more than willing to take a drug test as i can prove with a script all the drugs i take. But what gets me is the cart loads of high $$ food that people check out with, now i am not saying that i wouldnt buy a package of steak that is onsale but when my cart is full of rice and beans and mark down produce, mark down bakery and mark down meat i do have a problem with it...lol. Also everyone says that they get tired of funding food stamps, well let me say this i payed taxes too so look at it this way i am just using the tax money that i paid in to support my FS!

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it

Oh if I only had the tax money I've paid (not payed) in to support food stamps ! Oh if I only had all the money I've paid in to support baby mamas, drug habits, medical care, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, I'd be in good shape. We can't look at it that way, that's it's our money to get back. That is part of the reason why this thread is here to start with.

dl

Read an article this morning and thought I should post it here:


DSHS: Woman sold her food stamps on Facebook

Originally printed at DSHS: Woman sold her food stamps on Facebook | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | Local & Regional
By Martha Kang June 9, 2011

OLYMPIA, Wash. -- Police have arrested a Marysville woman who allegedly sold her food stamps to an undercover investigator with the state Department of Social and Health Services.

The department's Fraud and Accountability Office received a tip in May about the woman who was reportedly trying to sell her EBT card. The woman was advertising the card, which had $200 in credit, for sale on her Facebook page at the price of $100, officials said.

An undercover investigator contacted the woman and arranged to purchase her card. During the videotaped transaction, the woman told the buyer she had another EBT card that had been issued in South Carolina.

DSHS later learned the woman had been receiving aid in both Washington state and South Carolina since February.

The woman was arrested by Tulalip Tribal Police on an outstanding warrant. She has been booked into the Snohomish County Jail on charges related to the alleged fraud, including trespassing and possession of drug paraphernalia.

The unidentified woman has not been charged in the alleged fraud case. DSHS said she will not qualify for food assistance for two years.

If you read the article that was first posted they are talking only making them take a drug test for TANF which isnt foodstamps but is the cash assistance that they can get.

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it