Unbelievable. Many won't even need a can opener anymore, much less a microwave. Kids are being GIVEN free breakfast, lunch, and backpacks filled with food for the weekends. Now their parents aren't even going to have to cook dinner for them if this comes to be:

More restaurants are targeting customers who use food stamps

dl

Why does this bother you? If someone gets food stamps and they want to spend them by eating out, then that is theirs to spend, isn't it? I don't eat out much because my budget for food only allows so much and I can get much more if I cook at home but if someone wants to spend their limited food budget on eating at Long John Silver, it doesn't bother me in the least. Maybe I am missing something here.

Food stamps and free lunch and breakfast are to feed people....so they are eating food. I would be upset if they were buying TVs with the money but not what it is intended for.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

You're missing that cracked up momma and daddy are gonna be running thru the Taco Bell drive thru at 2 AM when "they gots da munchies" and then by the end of stinkin' month - kiddos don't have enough vegetables to put a balanced plate on the table.


X

Preposterous

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Not everyone on food stamps or eating free lunch or breakfast at school has crackheads for parents.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

True. However I do believe there would be rampant abuse of thatexception to what can be purchased using benefits intended for the "entire" family.

X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

I know there is some abuse of the food stamp program but I don't think it is rampant abuse. I would like to think that the vast majority of people who qualify for their children to eat free and reduced lunch and breakfast and get food stamps use them properly and for food. What is the alternative to food stamps?

I know that the usual answer is for these people to get off the dole, get a job and feed themselves like "we" do but how is that accomplished? There are many people who work full time jobs and still qualify their children for lunches and recieve food stamps because they cannot make enough of a living wage...what should be done with them?

Not being snarky but it has long been a question I have everytime someone brings up welfare or foodstamps here at MC. The general view that these people are using up valuable resources and there is rampant abuse and the people that qualify for food stamps not only do not deserve them but are practically criminals if they want to have a candy bar or a package of cookies or eat out.

"They should only be able to buy bare necessities...like sugar, flour, lard, eggs and such...they should only be able to cook from scratch like in the days before convenience food...they should never have pop, chips, candy, snacks, crackers other than saltines."

The food stamp program is not punishment for people who are poor. It is a program to help them eat every month.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Ok. Let me then say I'm coming from a point of view from my own state where I live. It's bad here. Forgive me if I sound jaded with what I see when we look at the demographic snapshot of the welfare system here in Arkansas. Did I mention it's bad. Wanna visit? I'll show you bad.

I understand about people needing help. Help is groceries. Specific types of groceries just like WIC. Nutritious foods for helping grow a healthy family. I don't see oranges or apples on the menu at Taco Bell or Broccoli, spinach squash at KFC. Once the dollars are used in that venue they are gone. "Fast Food" is more expensive in the long run and draining on the food budget.

We feed little johnny at school to help out all we possibly can but then to send him home to a card carrying parent that wanted to eat lunch at Long John Silvers instead of packing a sandwich to take to work, well - Limitations and guidelines are there to protect the innocent.

Welfare is already based on an honor system. We don't see much "honor" in doing the most with what little you have when it comes to throwing 10 - 20 dollars at fast food when it could buy bulk groceries to last further into the month you have to stretch it through.

JMO,
X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Not to be obtuse but is your example the rule and not the exception to those who make up the demographic of foodstamp recipients in your state?

I guess that if anyone buys lunch or dinner at KFC or Taco Bell, they are not using their food dollars wisely. So, people who work 40 hours a week at a job that pays a bit more than minimum wage and qualifies for food stamps should never go out to eat if the rules are changed to allow them to be able to. I don't know that this is fair.

Quite a few people who recieve food stamps are the working poor. Some may be on drugs, some abuse their food stamps. But most don't.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

ahhh...you know it's a black or white world! There are no shades of gray.
It's always the 5% of abusers who get the most publicity and hoopla.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I forgot! The urban legends where every mother on welfare has nine children with as many baby daddys and drives a Lexus while eating a store bought birthday cake sitting next to her Coach purse while waiting for her dealer to bring her crack. ( I do not know her name but it is in a baby book somewhere, I am sure.)

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

I have a couple things to add to your post: #1, when a military family lives in "privatized" housing, they do not have to include the housing allowance as income, for free/reduced lunch requirements:
Effective May 13, 2002, the housing allowance for military personnel living in privatized housing will not be counted as income when determining household eligibility for free and reduced price meals or free milk in any of the child nutrition programs for Federal fiscal years 2002 and 2003.

This makes no sense to me, since people living "out in town" receive a housing allowance and pay rent, and have to include that HA as income. I know to the non-military this makes little to no sense, at all. But, what it boils down to is that you can, and DO, have people who should not qualify for free/reduced lunch, indeed qualifying.

Also, as far as Food Stamp abuse..... I personally know of a woman who cleaned her friend's house, and in turn, the friend took her to Wal-Mart and used his EBT card to buy her food to pay for it. One case that I know of, but, I bet it is more prevelant than we think. sad....very very sad.

I don't think Fast Food should be included on Food Stamps. It is over priced, and generally not very healthy fare.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Most don't according to you. I respectfully disagree. Maybe somewhere in the middle lies the truth of it?

We appear to come at this issue from different perspectives. Recipients of the overall program in and of itself are bound by the same guidelines. The system can't distinguish between working poor and free loaders which nullifies the "fair" issue.

I'm afraid if I ask this question it will sound like I'm asking you and only you but I'm not. Here is a question to the mass general population - Why stay in a dead end job? Why stay in a barely above minimum wage job? Is it a choice you plan to make for the rest of your (not yours usnamom - but public at large) life?

Yes, you read that right. I believe it's a choice. Complacency. If you're (again not specifically saying to usnamom) but if whomever is reading this is NOT happy with their life, what are you doing to change it? -

Barely making it by, apply for a different job. Mail out three resumes a day. How many times did it take Thomas Edison to make a light bulb?

X

Just a question, AIA....would it make any difference if the person who had his house cleaned bartered food out of his pantry for his house cleaning?

Also, I know that people in the military live off base, they recieve an amount in their pay called BAH which is their housing allowance. Lots of times, it doesn't cover their rent payment but it is used to allow those who do not have base housing to be able to have a place to sleep. Right?

I also understand that enlisted members of the military do not make a lot of money and in some instances could be considered "working poor". I would think they would qualify for food stamps. I do not have a problem with a member of the armed services getting food stamps though I feel it is a damn shame that they aren't paid enough to be able to feed their family on their salary.

I have a hard time "punishing" people because they cannot afford food. I would think that people who are against the government interferring in people's lifes would be opposed to any kind of government rules that dictate what someone can and cannot buy with their food stamps.

Also, interesting that people who are on food stamps can only buy fruits and vegetables and wholesome food. No pop, candy etc....no "fun" food.

In essance, it is a punishment for them...sort of like this conversation:

"If you are going to be using food stamps, then you can only have food that is good for you....too bad that you might like some Ding Dongs, you can only have apples for snacks! What's that? What is in my basket? Ding dongs, candy, pop, chips, deli food, steak, and a birthday cake? Well, don't mind that I am not eating healthy...I am not on welfare, I am buying my own food with money I have earned...what is that you say? You work too and you pay taxes as well? I don't believe you...if you worked, you wouldn't need food stamps, you lazy, good for nothing crackhead!"

I am in a mood tonight.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Sigh. On the one hand, everyone (general) says how bad the country is and has been and it is getting worse under the present administration....but you think that good paying jobs are out there but people who are working for minimum wage are just not getting off their lazy butts and finding them.....this doesn't compute to me.

There are thousands literally thousands of young adults who graduated with degrees last May who cannot find a job in their career field. They are taking the jobs at McDonalds along with adults who have been laid off. These people are working hard to just stay afloat.

Maybe we should have soup kitchens like we had during the depression so everyone can eat. This is something I do not understand. There are no jobs out there for people to better themselves so they can make more money so they will not abuse food stamps. When the jobs come back and the economy improves then I will buy your argument.

Either the economy is crappy and there are no jobs or there are jobs and the welfare recipients and the working poor just are too lazy to go get them. Am I reading that right?

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Just read your last two posts. I think anything else I say or explain from my point of view might make you upset. I don't want to do that.

I typed something then erased it.

Thanks for the interesting conversation.

X

PS... My husband interviewed several potential employees all week this past week.
Yes, He's hiring.... even in this crappy economy but you know what. He only interviewed from the group of applicants that had actually applied.
These "lucky" few had taken the initiative and CHOSE to send in a resume.
Choice. What an amazing power it holds.

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

So, did he interview anyone who had worked in "dead-end" jobs, that had not graduated from college/tech school?
Did he interview anybody that didn't have ANY experience in his industry?

See, because you mentioned that he "chose" those that had sent in a resume, indicates to me that we aren't talking retail/cashier, fast-food, etc. position.

I know from PERSONAL experience--for every job I apply for (and yep, there are jobs out there), there are 25-50 others applying for (sending in resume) the same position. It isn't as easy as you seem to believe. Right now? I'd take a position that paid a % of what I was making. Forget trying to "better" my station in life!

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Nah, things said here by nameless pepole do not upset me as long as there isn't name calling etc.....I just marvel at people (general people) who think in such black and white thoughts ( thank you, Marilyn for the phrase).

I don't agree that everyone on food stamps is a crackhead. I do not believe that there are jobs out there that are not being filled because people are not applying for them. I do not believe that the working poor are just choosing to remain in those dead end jobs because they have no gumption and choose to be paid next to nothing so they can have food stamps and have people judge what they buy with them and what they eat. I also do not believe that about half of the people who recieve FS are cheating the system by getting aid.

So, your posts to not upset me at all.....we just don't agree.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Usanmom I love ya, you always make it a pleasure to read your posts. I have to say as far as food stamps goes, may any of us here, ever have to depend on them to feed ourselves or our children. No one may never know what will happen from one day to the next. Many of us are blessed, that we do not have to worry where our next meal is coming from. I will agree however there are sadly people who do abuse the system's like Wic or welfare, that is something out of out control. However I sincerely hope and pray that most people do the right thing, when it comes to any form of assistance. I also believe that just because someone is on some form of assistance, that they cannot enjoy somewhat of life's simple pleasure which is comes in the form of eating out one night a week. I absolutely see no harm in that at all. I guess I can put it this way.. take a average person who does receive food stamps and would normally stick to cheaper cuts of meat to eat, one night they decide I am going to treat myself to a steak, who in reality is that person hurting???. No one it is none of our business...Peace and blessings...Catherine

Be careful what you read. I did not say everyone on food stamps is a crackhead but a few bad apples spoil the bunch when it comes to non restrictive selections being offered.

The rest I have to leave alone right now to get into bed for early morning carpool comes way too early around here.

X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

There is value in self sufficiency and moderation. Maybe recipients could attend a seminar on the value of best utilizing snap for nutrition and shopping, but I doubt our gov. could handle that one well either.

Personally, I see it. I know I've used the phrase before, but too many are holding their hands out and expecting them to constantly be filled. Because they are accustomed to their hands being filled. Many have been told by social workers they qualify and that there is a program, or the state will take care of them (and the social workers aren't always right). The mindset becomes that "they" don't have to be responsible for much of anything. Our gov. ADVERTISES a lot of entitlement programs and I have seen the phrase "take advantage of your benefits". Yes, it irritates me advertising is paid for to give away money and services !

My mother raised 6 of us on her own and never, ever applied for anything. We paid full lunch or took it from home (it wasn't even free then, just reduced). She knew we were her responsibility. As for military, as an adult, we were active duty, and lived the life. I suppose we could have gotten assistance, but it never crossed my mind. It's too easy now to get entitlements and yes, many abuse it.

Jobs - x is right on. There is a wave of those who don't have any interest in improving themselves because life is "ok" to them at this point. THey have section 8 housing, headstart, tax breaks, medical, and as I started this thread, free breakfast and lunch for their kids, many with the weekend backpacks, assistance with utilities, etc, etc, etc. They can even be cremated or buried for free = cradle to the grave. The trade off is that once so many necessities are taken care of, what money they do have is then freed up for luxuries / things that no one needs to live. Luxury is constantly mistaken for necessity and justified.

I started this thread based on an article - front page - and to me, it smacks of a continuing spiral of doing things for people instead of people doing things for themselves. It is not my responsiblity to provide so much for so many via the government. I have compassion, and I do what I can privately, but the public dole has got to have common sense added and be curtailed.

It used to be "cool" to keep up with the Jones family. Now, it's "cool" to cry you don't have any money because of the economy. I see that daily as well and the truth be known, many over extended and didn't make good decisions but have jumped on the "it's not my fault" mentality bandwagon. It's not my fault you think it's not your fault !

dl

Taking a family to KFC for dinner is definitely NOT using their food dollars wisely. Period. The resentment a lot of "us" feel is because WE don't take OUR families to KFC for dinner because we "can't afford it"!!! So why in the world should people on food stamps be able to take THEIR families to KFC for dinner??

Do you truly not understand why people would resent this situation?

Giving children free breakfasts and lunches at school is one thing --- allowing people to use their food stamps up QUICKLY (so they run out of money before the end of the month) at fast food restaurants is quite another

I think the bottom line is that most of "us" really, really resent the FACT that some people on food stamps and/or other type of assistance ACTUALLY do live "better" than the rest of us

Having said all that, let me be very clear: those who are truly in need and are responsible caretakers of their financial situation deserve our help and compassion.

If the food in his pantry was bought with food stamps, it should NOT be used to barter for cleaning services. How about barter it for drugs??? What's the difference?


BAH is a "housing allowance" used to offset the cost of living out in town. If you are an E-3, your BAH is lower than E-4 and on up the line. It varies by area, also, with more expensive areas of the country having a higher BAH rate. If you live on base, or in gov't housing (not always located "on base") your rent/electric/water are covered. With the new privitization, your BAH is given and then you "pay" it back for your rent. So, basically, all you have to "pay" out of pocket is phone, cable. So, why is it not calculated for free/reduced lunch?


I tend to disagree with you on this. While a low ranking enlisted person obviously does not make a "lot" of money, if they are smart about it, they should be just fine. They are given housing or BAH to help with housing costs, free medical for the AD member, VERY cost effective for any dependents. When you take out the BAH it could look like they are the working poor.....but, if you take out the housing they get, then you must also consider they have no rent/utilities to pay. No medical bills to speak of. It's a rather good deal for someone w/out a college education. The problem comes in when the lower ranking have too many dependents that they can not support. I will also tell you WIC was like a "given" to young (and older) sailors wives/children. Many of whom gave away the milk/eggs/cereal/juice, because it was too much for them to eat/drink. When you take out the housing allowance, it really does skew the financial picture.


I understand what you are saying, and I don't think there is an easy answer, as many will agree. Policing what someone buys is not the answer. Restricting their choices "might" be helpful. Who "needs" soda? I don't consider it "fun" food, it's got no nutritional value in it and rots your teeth. I also don't think everyone on food stamps is a crack head, or a lazy, good for nothing. I think education is the key with food stamps. Maybe they do have to go to budgeting classes or nutritional classes, I don't know.

If you give up some of your money, don't you think you have a right to say how it is spent? If someone asks you to borrow $100 to "get back up on their feet" don't you want to be sure they are using that $100 wisely? I think that is what it boils down to for me.

I am all for helping someone temporarily, but, it can NOT be a way of life. Of course, there are exceptions...people who can not get ahead, such as handicapped or mentally ill, etc.

JMTCW

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

agreed!!!!!

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Notice that this initiative is being championed by the restaurant businesses, not by the food stamp recipients.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I guess "you" are right. The people who find themselves on food stamps are with the exception of those who are handicapped or mentally ill are just not looking hard enough for a job that pays enough to feed them. They are also for the most part abusing the system and if they buy anything that is not from the food pyramid they are eating unhealthy and that makes people who are not on food stamps resent them for abusing the "charity" they are getting.

Except the charity is from the taxes that the people pay for. Even those people who get the earned income credit pay taxes. They pay sales tax, social security taxes etc....


I typed out a long post but it doesn't matter. I believe fundamentally different that "you" people do. It isn't a wrong way nor is it the right way....but it is for me, the right way to think and to live my life. Carry on.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Agreeing here, too.

We very rarely go out to eat. It IS pricey. Say you have three kids and two adults, and you go to BK. The three kids meals are going to run about $11 - $12, total, and two adult meals comes to another $10 - $12.

$20 - $25 spent on ONE meal.

If this is a 'working poor' family with two parents working at minimum wage, that's about two hours of work from both parents spent on one convenience meal.

For that same $25ish, you could buy:
3 New York Strip steaks (the kids could split the third one) - $12
Baked potatoes - $1
Butter (the real stuff) - $.50
Salad - $1/bag
Mac 'n Cheese from the deli at the store - $3
Cheesecake from the deli at the grocery store - $4

That's $22.50 for a humdinger of an almost-home-cooked meal.

Or...

Breakfast for supper....

Pancakes from a just-add-water mix - $1.50
Syrup - $.75 worth
Butter - $.50
Bacon - $3
OJ - $1.25
Strawberries - $2

That's $9 for a big at-home meal

Or spaghetti....
1 lb box noodles - $1
Hunts spaghetti sauce - $1.30
1 lb ground beef - $2.29
1 bag salad - $1
1 loaf French bread - $1.50

About $7 for that one....

Those weren't sale prices (around here). I tend to only buy when things are on sale, so we probably spend about 2/3 of those totals. I usually do a spaghetti meal for about $4.50, total, for our family of five, and we have leftovers.

To me, it just doesn't make economic sense to 'go there' with the fast food thing.

I think it would be a great idea to have a nutrition and meal planning course go hand-in-hand with receiving food stamps. It might even be a neat thing to offer 'assembly night' events where people could go learn new recipes and put them together for their freezers and actually spend some of their food stamp money to buy those meals.

LOL

SPLIT a steak among 3 kids?? Yeah, might work for much younger kids.

And, frankly, your prices are greatly skewed by geographic location! I can't get 3 NY strip steaks for $12! I can't get 1 lb of hamburger for $2.29, nor bacon for $3, or strawberries for $2.
So, you're basing your assumptions on facts not in evidence for everyone!

FURTHERMORE--until you actually have to be trying to find a job in the current market? Perhaps you should not speak of how "easy" it is. Nor should you imply that those on assistance just aren't trying.

I use to think the way some of ya'll did--until I was cast into the world of unemployment, needing assistance and working my A$$ off to try and find another job! Changed my perspective, and humbled me greatly.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Marilyn, I agree.....it is easy to be judgemental and tell people how they should live their lives but until you are there, you do not know how it really is. I have never had to use food stamps but judging from the views of "us", I would hate to have to rely on assistance. I would hate to be thought of as using the system, abusing my food stamps, that every time I drove my suburban or bought my kid a birthday cake or a bag of chips, someone would be thinking how I didn't know how to use my money wisely and if they would only teach me how.......

There but for the grace of God, go any one of "us". I hope it never happens to "you all" but if it does, I am sure "you" will be thankful that the programs are there for "you" to use.

I am glad things are better for you, Marilyn!

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Where did I say that it's easy?

Where did I say people shouldn't be helped?

My point was that I don't think it is a good idea to include fast food into the mix of what can be purchased with government assistance. I was simply comparing the prices - locally - for some things we typically eat. Fast food, from my experience, is not a good buy.

We DON'T typically eat NY Strip, but my husband did come home with three of them last week, and that's about what they ran per steak.

For what it's worth... my three kids (all teenagers) and I DID split two steaks between us. They don't *have* to have the whole thing to be full. That's where the potatoes and salad come in handy. Oh - and we had a loaf of bread from the 'day old' rack from WM... $.90 per loaf. I pulled it out of the freezer - I never pay full price for it, and usually buy several when I see them there for $.90.

We eat fast food once a week - Chinese - and rather than going in and having the $7.50 person buffet, we buy two of the large entrees (which will feed all five of us) and bring them home - $12, total.

I'm not saying ANY of this to toot my own horn. I'm just explaining how we eat - what my personal experience is.

It's an issue of economics. If the point of assistance is to help people FEED themselves, the most value for the dollar is NOT found at BK or Long John's. It's not how I PERSONALLY conduct our family finances because we simply couldn't afford it and still be able to do the other things we do.

It's not how you'd do things, but it doesn't mean someone else's way is wrong.
Further, perhaps eating out going to BK or McD's or wherever IS the only "thing" they can do as a treat or "fun".

At the risk of sounding terribly mean? People need to get off their high horse, and try, just try, not being judgmental.

And FWIW--things aren't better for me. I don't have a job. The Ex petitioned and got a reduction in child support. And, my home is probably gonna be foreclosed on. Excuse the hell out of me if I choose to take my kids to McDonald's--$20 for dinner isn't going to stop the loss of my house. But, $20 can help take mine and the kids' minds off of the fact that their father is a jerk, we're going to lose our home (and probably their beloved dog "Daisy" --had her since we moved here--and the cat as well), and be forced to move.

Yeah, I fell on hard times. Yeah, I've used public assistance (and felt great shame because I *HAD* to to feed my kids!). I've used up most of my savings--or we would already be out of a home.

I don't tell this to garner sympathy. I do tell this because maybe, just maybe, the "holier-than-thous" will realize that there but for the Grace of God? It could be you and yours.

I'm all for better "control" and monitoring of the welfare system--as crazy as that may sound.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I know you were talking to WOW but I want to make an observation here.
Been with ya on here for years so I do think I speak from those past experiences.

You're sharp, tenacious, and have ALOT going for you. What sets you apart from any "us" and "them" kind of comparison and makes you different was clearly evident in your last statement "cast into the world" - I read here unexpected, unplanned. then "working my butt off" I read Understands temporary boost to get where she WANTS to go or be. Then the third and final jump off the page at me was the word humbled. I read appreciated what could be afforded and made do until different circumstances brought different results into your life.

BRAVO - If all those passing through the system had the fire in their belly that you did/do, the system might work better.

To me it sounded like you are scratching and clawing for every inch of ground you were trying to make up because you knew life had something better for you. You were making choices based on that belief. You recognized jobs may be scarce but my abilities and background make me a versatile employee when it comes down to the bottom line. You kept looking for job instead of crying dead end job is keeping me from changing the direction of my life.

We need more of that mentality,
X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

I was typing while you were typing this and then we posted close together.
Keep strong and move through this part of your life.

X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Marilyn, I admire your strength and resolve and know that better days are ahead for you and your children.

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

To Wow I cannot believe that 3 people can split a strip steak, there is not enough meat on those steaks. What I do because my son and husband so eat meat, they both love porterhouse steak so when it goes on sale for 6.99 per lb I will buy extra and keep in the freezer. There is no way my son and husband and perhaps someone else would split a steak between the three of them...As far as going out to dinner, we take in every friday and go out to dinner on Saturday, the other 5 days I cook, however my children are older only 2 live here and they are in and out so much. Usually it is just me and my husband for dinner. I would have to dearly think that people who do receive food stamps should be able to enjoy a dinner out once in awhile, I see no harm in that. I also will say.. jobs are very hard to find, even with the best of College education, they are still hard to find.. On a personal note..putting feelings aside Marilyn I said it before and will say it again, I do not know where you get your courage to do what you do, since you have suffered through bad times, but I do sincerely wish the best for you and your sons....Peace and blessings. Catherine

We had Boneless Ribeyes last night on sale @$6.99 /lb. I got 2 of them, and I think it was right at $12. That fed all 5 of us....2 grown men, 2 grown women, and a pre-teen. We also had 1/2 price Birds eye veggies .99 for a bag, and a can of Bush's baked beans $1.75 for a can. So, for $15 we all had a good dinner. We don't eat like this every night. Tonite it is spaghetti and meatballs....

I see both sides, I truly do. And, I do not think ANYONE is painting with a wide brush, as has been stated.

It is frustrating and disheartening, for sure.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

To Lucy: If you'll read what I wrote, you'll see that I said four of us split two steaks. They were each a little under a lb. (it was on sale for $4.xx / lb). I am on a diet and took less than half a steak for myself (cut it into slivers and had it on a spinach salad). I'd say that each of the kids got nearly 1/2 lb each. Add in big baked potatoes and salad and French bread. I just did a google search to see what a 'portion' of steak is considered for nutritional purposes, and it's 3 oz.. When I'm not trying to lose weight I can absolutely eat 3 - 4 times a 'portion', but if you are looking at it from a nutritional standpoint and not just, "How much do I WANT? How much CAN I eat?", they had enough. In fact, if 16 oz is a lb, and they had about 4/10ths of a lb. each, that means they had OVER two portions worth. While I do consider the meat the 'main' part of a meal, when I cook I don't necessarily presume that the meat is the thing they are going to fill up on. Especially if it's a pricey 'treat' meat, I make sure to have lots of extras on the side so they are full. We have brown rice about three times a week as a side, specifically because it's nutritious and cheap.

And marilyn, I apologize if it came off like I was being critical of you or your choices or your situation. That was not at all my intent. I really was just commenting on that single issue - whether or not I thought it was the best use of assistance dollars to expand those benefits to include eating out. I didn't mean to imply that nobody should GET assistance - just that I am not in favor of that specific allowance for use of that assistance.

You've got a lot of moxie, and I know you'll land a good job soon. I do wish you the best, and again, apologize if it seemed like I was being critical of anyone who has fallen on a rough patch and needs help.

I apologize if I came across as angry and bitter. I probably am a little bitter! LoL It has been a rough few months--and then for the Ex to petition for lower child support (he wants it to be more "fair and equitable" *eye roll* It's not fair because he disagrees with the amount and has since day 1...but I digress), has set my nerves on edge.

Not to mention the mortgage company has been less than helpful (I started the paperwork in November 2010 for a loan modification. They did NOTHING until April 2011--the whole time telling me they were "working on it" or they were "escalating" my request), I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and very frustrated!

So, I probably am quicker to jump to a misunderstanding and be crabby!

It will all work out, eventually. I sometimes wish that God didn't have as much faith in my ability to handle things!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

The above struck a bit of a chord. I guess I can't look at not having "frilly" foods as a "punishment".

My parents and us 4 kids were on foodstamps for 3 years. I don't remember what other income there was. I think my stepdad would get a part time job whenever he could, my Mom was with the kids.

Anyway, NO frilly foods were purchased with those foodstamps UNLESS there was some leftover. With 3 young children (I was the oldest by 13 yrs), that was damn hard to have leftover money from foodstamps. I vaguely remember just a couple times in those years, the "knock-off" Oreos - whatever the store brand was. My Mom used Zwieback (?) cookies for the kids teething, but one box got all 3 kids through. I don't think she thought about a frozen waffle, which were probably more expensive anyway! Heh!

I don't know if there was a "ban" on buying certain foods then. (Late 70's) We certainly didn't feel "punished" or downtrodden because we didn't have Ding Dongs and Oreos and Doritos every month (or WEEK, the way some do!). We accepted things they were. I know my parents were doing the best they could, my stepdad was always looking for work. If anyone would have asked me then if I felt "punished" because my parents couldn't buy me Ding Dongs, I probably would have looked at that person like the sprouted a horn out of their forehead. Sweet Lord, really?

I remember weeks that all we had for dinner was fried ring bologna & onions, or tomato soup, or baked chicken with miracle whip type coating (that was REALLY popular then) or hamburgers (whatever was the cheapest). Once in a great while, tacos. That was the menu for our house. Any one of the above were dinner, day after day after day. Anyone wanna take bets on how often we went out to eat? Zip, zilch, nada.

Guess what? We all turned out just hunky dory. Nobody feels all bent outta shape because we didn't get our snack foods or our daily fast food fix. I know that sounds sort of flip, and I really don't mean it that way. But what's the big diff between then and now? Mindset. Mindset. Mindset. Entitlement was NOT an issue then. Back then I don't know anyone on assistance that would have thought one second about taking their kids to Taco Smell on the government dime, when they can barely afford to keep a roof over their heads.

These programs aren't so much different then as now, but the people and their attitudes sure are. Unfortunately, there are always going to be the bad apples that will forever have their hands out expecting "freefreefree". Just as unfortunately, you have people that have true needs that get caught up in the bad press BECAUSE of those bad apples.

There is way too much in the way of entitled attitudes in this country. The truly needy get caught up in it too - that is the real tragedy.

I didn't care much for the time in my life when my family was on foodstamps. At times I felt embarrassed and a little scared, but we made it through. We were grateful there was such a thing to get us through. I think times like THAT are what really build character, both individually and as a family. I wouldn't wish times like that on anyone, but if those times come, I think people have choices on how they live through those times.

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I understand. I can't truly empathize, because I haven't been where you are, but I know I'd be a bear if I'd had to deal with that kind of crap.... especially from your ex. He helped create those kids, and then he turned their lives upside down. He isn't fulfilling his emotional responsibilities to them, and he now wants a lesser physical obligation? What a crock!

Marilyn, you are one of the strongest women I've ever seen on a bulletin board - if it's possible to figure that out!

I've been on several boards over the years, I guess one can get a feel. You have always appeared to me to be strong and determined - and yes, strongly opinionated.

If the impression you make on this board is close to reality, you remind me of someone I would look at and think, "Yeah, she's gonna be alright."

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Ambrianna, I think you are right - so much of it is perspective. I was fortunate enough to get to sponsor a group of kids who went to an impoverished foreign country last year. Their diet was a steady one of beans and rice, and then more beans and more rice. They had never had it any different, so they didn't have any internal meter telling them they needed a treat. They were content, probably because they hadn't experienced any better and because 'better' wasn't the norm for the culture they lived in.

The norm for us here in the 'land of plenty' is that people do have a baseline expectation that they'll go out to eat some, that there will be more than just water to drink, and that there will be snacks in the fridge. When we're thrown below that baseline due to circumstances either beyond our control or in our control, we feel impoverished, so to speak.

Whether we really are impoverished, in the grand scheme of things, is a relative thing.

It is a reality, though, that the struggle to maintain 'baseline' is real and isn't easy - like in Marilyn's case with the mortgage. The people we encountered overseas didn't have mortgages, so paying the was never a stress for them. It wasn't part of their baseline. But when you live somewhere where having a roof over your head means more than just a grass hut, maintaining baseline *will* be stressful and may feel insurmountable. Finding a grass hut isn't a real option in the US - at least not that I know of!

I grew up in a town that didn't always have a grocery store, even, and there was just one restaurant (and it wasn't fast food)... so there are probably some things that feel like luxuries to me that feel like 'baseline' to others...like fast food. It was a huge, huge thing for us to get McD's fries because you had to drive two hours to even see any golden arches. lol

That may be why I don't think fast food should be part of the food stamp plan. Like you, getting to go out to eat isn't part of my baseline expectations, and I think of assistance programs as things that are to help people maintain 'baseline' when they're not able to do so.

It's not that hard to imagine; for 6 of us, I usually fix 2 large strip steaks I've sliced into thin strips, bulk it up with side dishes and so far, I've not had any complaints - only compliments.

As I said in the other thread, I live in the Louisville area where Yum Brands are located and it stuns me using a food stamp card for restaurant food is even a possiblity. It is common sense the money you spend on restaurant food for one meal can be better spent buying groceries that can be stretched over a few meals. But then again, it seems more and more people lack common sense lately.

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Catt
~ Mirror Mirror on the wall, I am my mother - after all! ~

Yes, the key here is LARGE (read THICK). I don't buy the thin cheapo ones. DH and DS split one whole steak, and at $6.99/lb, and 2 were close to $12....I'd figure one steak was about 13oz??? So, half of that is 6.5 oz. Not sure what the daily RDA is for red meat, but, they were both very full.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

We are a family of 4--2 adults and 2 teenagers--and we usually eat 2 - 2 1/2 steaks when we have it for dinner. I can't imagine eating a whole one! It has nothing to do with price - steaks are usually way more meat than anyone needs in one meal! I don't buy large, I buy lean (I only buy strips or sirlions regularly - a couple times a year I'll buy the smallest filets they have and we'll each have our own). I usually cook 3-4 strips or 1-2 sirlions depending on size & how much we want leftover for steak salads for lunches the next couple days.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

There should be some kind of nutrition classes for people on food stamps. Often, poverty can be a result of ignorance and perhaps if they understood that protein and fiber are nutritious and white bread & sugar laden "fruit snacks" are not (with a somewhat detailed description of how each affects the body, mind, energy level, etc) people would make better choices.

That being said, I don't think what "we" are going through now, as a country, is typical. Whether people are on assistance or not, working or not, or how long they've been in the situation, the fact is if you can't find a job it doesn't mean you're lazy or not resourceful. Geographic location, education, work history, consumer confidence, and, in my opinion, greedy executives who see the company can run with less overhead thus leaving them more profits, all affect unemployment as well as underemployment.

I don't agree with making a career out of receiving welfare. We need changes to the system. Instead of just giving benefits, make people earn them. Put them in state offices to cover furlough days, and have them work/train in positions that need filling. Some of these people have never or rarely ever had the feeling of a job well done or the feeling of being self sufficient. The system as it stands now is broken.

But I disagree with allowing buying fast food with food stamps simply because it encourages irresponsibility and almost rewards it instead of teaching a more responsible way.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I think this was targeted for homeless people that recieve foodstamps but have no place to cook a meal.
I think this is nice as homeless people will get a chance to have a hot meal now and then.

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This just happened to show up in our local news today - I'm going to cut and paste one portion if you don't want to read the whole news story.

49 Million Americans Don't Get Enough to Eat - ArkansasMatters.com

49 Million Americans Don't Get Enough to Eat

Key Highlights:

* The number of those "food insecure" in America continues to be high - 48.8 million Americans (16.2 million children) were uncertain of having, or unable to acquire, enough food to meet adequate nutritional requirements.
* Minority households have the largest percentage of food insecurity, with 1 in 4 black and Latino households being food insecure - almost twice that of non-minority households.

Last year the Arkansas Foodbank distributed 13.3 million pounds of food to agencies that help feed people who go hungry.

X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

X---I'm not sure where you are in AR.
But, once upon a time (1994-1995) the Ex and I lived in the Mississippi Delta area (Dermott to be exact). Talk about abject poverty! People still lived in sharecropper shacks, the only lights in house were bare bulbs hanging from extension cords, and yes--some didn't have indoor bathrooms!
When surrounded by the dismal situations, it is extremely difficult for young people to break the poverty cycle. If all they know is extreme poverty, they have to struggle and fight to get out of the "system".

Much like I see now in some of the Native American "Rez" here....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I live in Central Arkansas around the Little Rock area but not "in" LR. I never meant to though. It just happened that way - married a home town boy and he had deep roots here in AR so this is where we landed. Being an only child makes him stay close to help his parents.

I'm hoping one day I'll get out of here again. I prefer Texas. We won't have a permanent address once the kids are up and out of school. DH and I are going to travel full time. I LOATHE cleaning house as much as he detests lawn work. We made a pact to go full time RVing and "chill" once we got the kiddos in college then we'll probably have to settle back down later on as the grandkids come along then.

My luck would be that the impending economic collapse wipes out that grand plan. UGH! I'm not paying $10.00 a gallon in gas just to roll up and down the highway. I'll park and enjoy the view. LOL!

PS... did you see how many people are eating steak on this thread??? WOWzers. I quit buying them because they had skyrocketed.... Pass the Fish sticks please.

X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Well, we don't eat like that every night. But I shop carefully, cook every night and a few nights a month, we need a treat.

I do have a local store who sells me whole tenderloins for $6.49 a lb. There is no trimming, I take the loin out and section the muscle for sandwiches. Each tenderloin runs about $25 - $28.

I'm 50 years old, I've scrimped and saved my entire life. I don't know how long I've got on this earth but I am going to enjoy myself.

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Catt
~ Mirror Mirror on the wall, I am my mother - after all! ~