http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/op...ee-to-die.html

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

First off this author (PAUL KRUGMAN) is not someone that I would listen to at all. This man has been so wrong about the economy..that it is beyond me why anyone listens to him on ANY subject. Of course, he goes after Ron Paul all the time.

In my opinion if an individual choose not to buy insurance they no one else should feel the responsibility for that person.

another one of Krugman's opinions
Paul Krugman: Fake Alien Invasion Would End Economic Slump (VIDEO)

Well, then, I guess you're exactly the kind of person he was describing.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

People have to have the freedom to live their lives as they want to. But with individual freedom comes responsibility for one's decisions. Good or bad.

Like I said...

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

You find this disturbing for some reason?

I suspect he was trying to be humorous. I've noticed at times, he has a quirky little sense of the ridiculous.

If you don't have money, how do you buy insurance? It's not a choice for many. Let's see should we eat this week or pay our insurance?

If you're 5 years old, how do you buy insurance? Hard to do on your .50 a week allowance.

If you have a preexisting condition and get refused insurance, what do you do then? I'm guessing here, drop dead?

I was addressing the question that was asked at the debate. It clearly stated in the question....that a 30-year-old man who chose not to purchase health insurance....

Why would you address the question in the debate when the post is about Krugman's column?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Krugman's column started with the question that was asked at the debate. Then he went from there into twisting the answer and reaction from the crowd around to fit his thinking.
Talking about someone that choses not to have insurance because of a personal choice is so very different than a discussion about Health coverage. The other points that he was covering in his opinion piece was not connected to what actually took place at the debate.

Some people think that people do not have insurance because they can not afford it. But, from my experiences younger people choose not to have insurance because they see no need for it.
Example: Last year my favorite cashier at Walmart was saying she was not going to enroll in the insurance again that year. Her reason was because she never used it and would rather have the extra money on her paycheck for a nicer car and have some for a better vacation.
This was her personal choice. In my opinion very irresponsible. Should society "taxpayers" have to pay her medical costs when she could afford the insurance but decided she didn't need it.

First of all, I wouldn't let her die for making a foolish decision.

Second, as Krugman pointed out, "very few of those who die from lack of medical care look like Mr. Blitzer’s hypothetical individual who could and should have bought insurance. In reality, most uninsured Americans either have low incomes and cannot afford insurance, or are rejected by insurers because they have chronic conditions."

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

The point above brought out by Krugman deals with Health coverage. A big difference.
I do not think the person should die..medical care could be provide with the "foolish" person responsible for the tab. Yes, even if it took that person's whole life to pay the bill. It is that "foolish" person's responsibility not mine.

On the topic of Health Coverage

There was a couple of points in Obamacare I agreed with ... not being rejection because of chronic conditions is one.

But I do not like the forced mandated. People should be free to make their own choices about whether or not to have medical insurance.

The issues of keeping the premiums down so that people can still afford insurance has not been dealt with. Still a very big problem that is only going to get worst.

If you have a better idea for how to get everyone at least catastrophic medical care coverage while keeping premiums down, tell us.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Jujubee , I felt very sad to read that article, everyone deserves basic medical care, each time I read something like this, I am more proud to be a left-winged liberal democrat more and more.......Thanks so much for sharing......Peace. Catherine

No easy answer to that question. There are some basic things wrong with the system we have in place now ...it is hard to work a solution out of the mess as it is now. It needs a controlled take-down and disassemble and put a new better system in place. We need to take the best ideas from our medical system now... start with those as a foundation.

But too much money is made by big pharma , major insurance companies they would fight any real changes.

Several things need to happen. Insurance companies need to let the doctors have more say on the treatment of a patient instead of the insurance company saying what procedures to follow first. More understanding of alternate medicines and how they can benefit the patient. Try to keep cost of routine care at a minimal. Offer more affordable clinics instead of people going to an ER (except in a true emergency)
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Offer cost savings/lower premiums to healthier people. Sorry, the reality is being sick or unhealthy is going to cost money. I would also like to see lower premiums to young healthy people and as you get older premiums would increase based on your need for medical coverage.

We do still need a system in place to help the very poor and disable. Maybe give incentives to doctors/clinics/ hospitals to help cover the costs. Instead of taxes make it a donation off paychecks ..so that people could give willing what they can comfortably afford to help others.

More money needs to go into research in finding cures not into producing more drugs to just treat the symptoms.

Well, I don't agree with everything you say, but even if I did, it isn't concrete enough to act on. Yeah, it would be great to keep the cost of routine care at a minimum. How?

Charging people more as they grow older isn't a good idea. Typically, people have less earning potential as they age.

Offering cost savings/lower premiums to healthier people means those with preexisting conditions can't afford insurance. That's one of our problems now.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

This was just brain storming ideas from last night..nothing I have even read about anywhere.

The reason behind young healthy people getting a break is because they are usually in lower paying jobs, trying to start a family, mortgages, college loans. By the time a person is in middle age they should be in a better position financially to take care of their own aging medical needs. Also a person would have a longer time to "save" their own money for their medical needs.

Reality is that most people are not saving to take care of themselves as they grow older.

Insurance is suppose to be based on "risk". So yes, it may sound cruel but the person using the services provided by doctors/nurses have to pay. Insurance is the same whether it is car insurance, fire or flood, etc. It is based on the "risk". If you live in a flood plain area your insurance will be more.

Insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, nurses are there to make money. Same as a mortuary. They all provide services that you and or your family pay for when you need it.

Life is not fair..never is going to be...was never intended to be fair. You just have to learn to make the best out of what you are dealt with. Some people have to deal with medical issues, others financial problems, loss of jobs, fires, floods, etc.

That's where you and I disagree - and Krugman and I agree:

"And what this means is that modern conservatism is actually a deeply radical movement, one that is hostile to the kind of society we’ve had for the past three generations — that is, a society that, acting through the government, tries to mitigate some of the “common hazards of life” through such programs as Social Security, unemployment insurance, Medicare and Medicaid."

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

We do disagree on the role of government.
One of my favorite "history" lessons.
Not Yours To Give - Colonel Davy Crockett
"So you see, that while you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from thousands who are even worse off than he." (from the above link)

The programs you listed above started out with good intentions. But the system is not working. The US is trillions of dollars in debt. Sadly, these programs will end up hurting more people than doing real lasting good. Hurting the future generations.

The programs didn't put us in debt, Bush did.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

You do sound like a true democrat.

Not that easy.
True we are in debt because of the wars. BUT not just wars but the whole being the "policeman of the world". (NOTHING has changed even with Obama)
ALSO social programs here at home. ALSO years and years of both Republicans and Democrats mishandling the programs funds. Yes, the US was in major trouble before Bush.

Now the US is at the point where we can not afford anything.

This link is from a conservative but the information can be found Congressional Budget Office

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jha...her-national-d
"The real problem is that as large as America’s 14.3 trillion dollar debt may be, it is dwarfed by the United States’ unfunded obligations from entitlement programs."
"The United States is estimated to owe about $7.7 trillion in unfunded Social Security obligations, and an astounding $37.9 trillion in unfunded Medicare liabilities. To put that in perspective, $37.9 trillion is more than two and a half times greater than America’s 2010 GDP."
"According to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimates, the cost of entitlement programs will continue to grow so that the problem gets even worse the farther you look into the future. The CBO estimates that by 2020 Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid will make up a combined 45% of all federal spending. In contrast, the same estimate predicts that defense spending will make up 16% of the 2020 federal budget. But the real problem comes when you start to look 40 to 50 years down the road. According to estimates put out by the CBO, sometime around 2060 spending on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid alone will exceed the total of all federal revenues. Even if the federal government was able to forgo all other spending, it would still reach a point where it is unable to raise enough revenue just to pay for the big three entitlement programs! Of course, the federal government spends trillions of dollars a year in defense and discretionary spending, meaning that out of control entitlement spending is likely to lead to a financial crisis well before 2060."

True Democrat am I am and Bush did place us and left us in a hug debt.........and it is the plain truth..........No peace here...........Catherine

While I realize that this is probably not the norm...

There is a young woman in my community in the hospital right now. She's been working under the table, making VERY good money. She has no children, no spouse, no responsibilities. She's also just 20.

THREE times since June she's been hospitalized. For what? Alcohol poisoning and drug overdose. This time, she's screwed up her kidneys to the point that she's on dialysis. Guess who's going to pay for her "poor choices"? You guessed it. You, and me, and every other tax payer. I suppose I just don't understand why I have to pay for other people's "poor choices".

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If tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends, bring on the crumpets!

just curious has to how you know this young lady's medical history?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Addiction is not a choice. That's why it's called addiction.

I agree wholeheartedly. People DO have money for what they WANT it for. Her poor choices certainly.

I have an employee who chooses NOT to pay for company sponsored health insurance. The employer pays a portion, and the employee pays a portion - which is not a staggering amount by any means. Last summer, he had a heart related crisis and went through er/icu/regular room.

I visited. His wife said, and I can quote her: "I just hope they don't treat him any less than anyone else just because he doesn't have insurance."

dl

While I know legally and in society what you are saying is accepted, I do not agree. An alchol or drug addiction was a choice to start with. It's a result, not a disease. It's a circumstance culminated from decisions made by the person. It's not like cancer, or so many diseases that the person had no control over.

We protect addicts legally and yet have "drug free" workplaces- the two don't mesh. You have to tread very lightly around the hiring / firing process because while they have the right to be protected, workmen's compensation and other insurance says out the door.

dl

Hey Marilyn,

My husband and I know this young lady quite well, and tried to mentor her/get her help/be a role model for her. Needless to say, that didn't work and today, I find myself worried that she's going to actually die as a result of her dependency. Yet, I still find myself resenting the fact that MY tax dollars are going towards her care. It's one thing if I CHOOSE to help someone...quite another to be forced to do it, kwim?

The young woman in question is an intelligent young lady with lots of potential...but she CHOOSES to continue her lifestyle. Yes, I know it's an addiction, but as Dedlast (I think it was her?) said, at the beginning, it is a CHOICE.

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If tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends, bring on the crumpets!

OK...I just wanted to determine if you were depending on rumor vs. having actual knowledge of the situation--you know?

I disagree that addiction is ALWAYS a choice. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not.

Regardless of the addiction issue: I do understand and agree about being forced to help some people because they are too stupid, or too arrogant, or whatever to make better decisions.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"