Belief in God Boils Down to a Gut Feeling - Yahoo! News

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

The researchers plan to investigate how genes and education influence thinking styles, but they're quick to note that neither intuition nor reflection is inherently superior.

When you got nothing to lose or everything to lose, what choice is made then?

So much hangs in the balance.
X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

So, if I believed more and prayed harder I would find a job?
If, in my desperation, I prayed more and went to church, I wouldn't be facing foreclosure?
Reading the Bible would fix all my financial difficulties?

Oh, I know, I'd be more at peace if I had faith in God!

See, I'm a little jaded and cynical at this point in my little life--either I'm at fault thus God is not helping me, or if God exists I'm just not one of his chosen ones.
Maybe I'm not praying correctly. Maybe all the prayers I know that are being said on my behalf are not good enough...

I struggle daily to maintain my faith. I struggle daily with questioning what I'm doing wrong. I pray without ceasing. I pray that God's will be done. I pray for forgiveness. I pray for help. I pray for inner peace.
But, ya know? I'm feeling pretty abandoned right now.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

This was me when I was younger and still believed, now I just don't waste my time believing in an imaginary being made up by Kings of the past to keep the common folk in order and under control. There are almost 7 billion people in this world, all believing in some different god of some sort or another, how can they all be right...they all believe their god is the right god ya know?

And just look how many wars there are, in the name of "God". I say live a good life, be kind to others, leave the world a better place then when you got here and don't intentionally hurt people. If you do hurt people, apologize. I have never believed that a person can do whatever they dam well please, and get a pass because they are Christians, and hence "forgiven". Uggghhh, you got me started now....

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

This is the funniest thing to me, when someone, say an athlete, wins a big, oh say a Nascar race, they thank god for letting them win..blah blah blah, ok so GOD wanted THEM TO WIN? GIVE ME A BREAK! Don't you think that there were thousands(maybe even millions) of people praying for their driver to win or all the drivers praying that they would win but somehow someway GOD wanted that other person to win because they are better than all the others...Just makes me LOL!!!! It also kind of makes me want to vomit about the arrogance.

And closer to home, I have a relative that is really doing great financially and others that are really doing crumby financially. Well this person just bought a $500,000 home and is praising Jesus(on Facebook) for being so great and blessing them with so many wonderful things and blah blah blah...well so why is Jesus not blessing the others? They go to church and pray just as she does but I suppose Jesus loves her BEST.

I'm too busy wondering why the ball cost 5 cents instead of 10 cents, to wonder about God. According to that article I'm a likely religious candidate. Could not be farther from the truth. Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule. Or maybe I'm just lousy at math.

If it's any consolation, wildwood, my first reaction was that the ball was 10 cents too (and I'm an atheist). Here's the question again:

"A bat and a ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs $1 more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?"

The key is that the bat costs $1 more than the ball. If the ball was 10 cents, for the bat to cost $1 *more* it would have to cost $1.10. If the ball is 5 cents, and the bat is 1.05, then the bat costs $1 more than the ball, and together they cost $1.10

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

OOOOOH! Now I get it. Thank you! Now I won't have to worry that I'll suddenly start to pray, speak in tongues, have a need to handle a rattle snake, or dunk myself in a river. I can't swim or do math.

For me who is a Catholic, however I do not believe in reform religion. Again it is a personal view and it is just plain how I live my life. Some people may say I am not a true Catholic and that is fine, it is their personal view. When I want to pray I will pray, when I want to attend church I will. I do not believe in all that is written in the bible. However around my neck I have worn the cross, and 3 medals each one is for a Saint. One is for Saint Dymphna, she is the saint for people whom suffer from nervous conditions. I also wear Saint Catherine and Saint Peter for myself and for my brother Peter aka Sonny. I feel in life whatever brings you some comfort go with it.........Peace. Catherine

Phew - My work is not in vain!

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I hear the frustration, anger and bitterness in the way you wrote this. I've felt the same feelings when we faced a similar situation (DH out of work for 4 months in 2002). Living through it IS tough.

I don't believe the things you said in sarcasm about "not doing enough".

I can understand where going through a rough patch you would struggle to maintain faith. I have too. Twice in fact and have admitted to such.

The difference between failure and success is simply getting UP one more time than you fall Down. One time, that's all. Once.

I know years ago we experienced another MC'er going through the foreclosure scare. Maybe she could share some of her experience or maybe just knowing she came through it and survived might help. PM me if you don't remember but she's one of the oldtimers like us. It was scary then but she's still around now.

When God answers prayers it's basically one of three ways.
"Yes!"
"Not Yet"
"I have something better in mind"

I'll be more specific in naming what it is you need from God in my prayer.
X

Jujubee2, Wildwood and Couponsrock,

For the sake of understanding (not argument),
It almost feels like open hostility in the way you speak of religion or mock it entirely.
If 99% of anger is based on fear, what is the fear?

I'm not looking for a debate so if you don't feel comfortable posting it, would you please PM me. I'm trying to understand from another point of view. I give you my word it will not be shared. I truly just simply don't know where that point of view would come from.

Thanks,
X

Hi Xhausted1,

I feel no hostility, but no reverence felt either.


(I am hostile when others try to force their religion on me or the country - particularly through legislation.)

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I don't feel hostile either, and if you want to believe in that then so be it. I for one cannot even begin to make myself believe in what to me seems like total non-sense. There is nothing anyone could even say that would convince me otherwise. The only thing that I kind do feel hostile about is that it seems like everywhere I go people talking about god this and god that and how god has just fixed them right up etc. "Oh thank god for this beautiful day and thank god for the rain"...well here's a thought, if god is responsible for the beautiful day and the rain is he also responsible for the flooding and drought and 100 degrees days and all the other bad stuff too? And I'm also getting tired of all the religion in the government. Government isn't supposed to be ruled by a certain religious belief. I'm sorry if it seems I'm talking bad about it but it just seems so unbelievable to me.

Like that old song "♫whatever gets you through the night, it's alright it's alright♪". HA!

^^^^This^^^^

Thanks.
The part you put in the () about "I AM hostile when...." was what I was questioning about.

I see anger, I wonder if someone could put into words the fear behind it.
Could it be the fear of rules laws based on a higher morality than "you're" (not you specifically but the populous at large) accepting of (Catholicism?) or is it that it would require a regimented required worshiping (Muslim?) or mandate food handling/food choice practices (Jewish kosher?) or is it just Christianity in general for a specific reason.

I respect your choice as being YOUR choice. Which is why I don't want this to be misconstrued as anything other than passing information from one person to another. I'm not going to try and alter your reason. I simply want to understand what it's coming from.

X

Thanks for your openess. It reifies that my witness can cause even one person's taste for spirituality to turn bitter if it's not handled correctly. I'll be more mindful of that. (I saw the half million dollar house post - ouch)

and yes, I do believe I'm going to suffer the consequences of my choices even when it comes to weather patterns. I drove the car that put out exhaust that can destroy the ozone layer and bring more harmful weather patterns. Or if not me, my children will have a different oxygen level than I did growing up due to the way we manage our resources. The Bible asks that He be praised in both the good and bad times so maybe that's part of what you're hearing.


What specific part of "religion in Govt" interference is the problem?
Like if you had to say the statement "I don't think ____blank____ should be a deciding factor in the rule of law". What fear of blank being a part of the law is it?

Learning,
X

Well, I don't agree with your premise that 99% of anger is based on fear.

But, in a nutshell, my objection to theocracy is that religion is based on one group's perception of good and evil. There is no compromise. No debate. Something is either right or wrong. A democracy is based on several people's perception of what is just and fair. There can be shades of gray that are debated. Furthermore, that group of people is constantly changing and represents the many views of the populace, not just a particular subset.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

You asked.

Where to start. If there is fear, the fear is that this country, is going the way of other countries that follow extremist religious positions. I see signs of it all the time. It's a very simple leap from "we need prayer in schools" to "there will be prayer allowed in schools" to "you will pray in school". That's just one easy example.

I'm not sure when I started being annoyed by religion. I was pretty young. I remember being told that the Pledge of Allegiance, which I recited every morning along with my grade school class, was now expected to say "under god". Somehow at that age, not sure how old I was, I just knew it felt wrong. It just is nonsense to me. I'm probably more of an agnostic than an atheist. If you want to spend your money building these huge edifices to a god, I think that is wrong. And I firmly believe that if there is a god, that he/she does not like it either. The money should be spent to help those less fortunate.

If you want to pray in school, then do so, but keep it to yourself. There is no law that disallows that. But you should not be heard. Whatever you do should be between you and your god.

I'm annoyed by things like the huge round of applause that occurred during the Republican debate when the question about the death penalty came up. Murdering people should not be cause for a round of applause.

I'm amused by the team prayers that ask a god to favor them over the other team who is busy praying the same prayer. I'm annoyed that it's encouraged. I'm pretty sure that if there is a god that, for the most part, he doesn't care who wins. I'm pretty sure that the birds falling from the sky in Arkansas did not do so because a god was mad that we repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell. I'm pretty sure that you can't "Pray the gay away". I'm also pretty sure that if there is a god, that he/she is disappointed that his children are not using the brains given them to see that he doesn't want mindless adulation, but instead wants us to use our brains to better ourselves, our families, our communities, our country, our world.

The overt condemnation of the Muslims by the Christians, after 911, certainly showed a lot of Christian spirit. I certainly don't agree with Muslimism either, but the herd-like mentality that allowed people to act like they did, bolstered by their belief that as a Christian they were right to condemn another religion and several billion people, was interesting to watch. Intolerance is something that seems to go hand in hand with many of faith. Ask any gay or lesbian.

I also look at history. Much of the turmoil through the ages has been caused by religion.

I think too much literal stock is put in the Bible. If you want to look, you can find many things said in there can be found that contradicts itself someplace else. It was a book written by people who had never met Jesus. They wrote the books several hundred years after the fact. That's like me trying to write a book about the Civil War without going to the library or online. It's going to be pretty darned inaccurate. I think it's mostly allegories and should not be taken so literally. All you need to know is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

My husband was religious in a "go to church once in a while" way when we got married. Two years ago we went to see a Christmas pageant put on by my grandson's friend's church. It's a very large congregation and we stayed well back, for an easy escape. I felt like I was at a Hitler rally. The lack of tan faces, mine included, was amazing. There were probably a few thousand people there and the token Black was onstage and about 8 years old. The lies they espoused were shocking to my husband. The fervor of the crowd and the intensity of the ones on stage were intimidating to me. We stayed long enough to say we had been and then left quietly. My poor husband was so shocked at the stuff they were saying that he talked about it for days. Don't ask me what was said, it was too long ago and his memory is not what it could be anymore.

Am I afraid of religion? Not in the way you meant. I'm more afraid of the Hitler-like lock-step mentality that pervades much of the country today. It's not a god that I have a problem with, it's religion that I have a problem with.

I appreciate you sharing.
I better understand where you and many others may be coming from and it appears you try and see it from both standpoints. You are as secure in your choice as I in mine. We don't agree but after deeper contemplation you can justify how you came to that conclusion.

To judge one by all seems to be a point you brought up. I get the feeling you're judging all Christians by your life experiences and calling it quits when it really boils down to what goes on between you and God mano a mano.

I believe our players are praying for God to honor their hard work and practice and let them play at their peak performance without injury. That's reasonable enough given the old saying "let the best man win". Both teams can pray that same prayer without offending God.

About the church. If someone gave me a music concert ticket and I showed up at the arena and it was Ozzy Ozbourne. I might judge "music" by that standard. But if I went to a Celine Dion concert I might judge all music by that standard. Different crowd, different vibe. Personal favorite Brad Paisley, but what if I judged all music lovers by only looking at a snapshot of a few of his groupies? I missed something about Music altogether in that mix up.


Is it too personal to ask if you believe your husband is going to heaven based on a decision he made previously in his life before meeting you? That would be difficult for me knowing my spouse might have something different in store for them after death.

I'm satisfied with the answer you gave and appreciate you taking the time to share it.

X

Ps. JujuBee2 Our founding fathers feared a democracy, that's why they made sure the United States of America was a Republic. Democracy is not in our constitution but that's pretty much a moot point now that politicians are bought and sold like pawns outside of the REAL system that was set in place with honor and integrity many years ago. Bottom line is that we each are introspective in determining "just and fair" as you mentioned. Even Wildwood went back to Biblical reference for her choice of "All you need to know is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Luke 6:31 I'm thinking that's a good thing.

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

I'm not sure what you mean,, "it really boils down to what goes on between you and God mano a mano". Is this what you believe or what you think I believe?

I judge each person on their own. I judge religions by their actions. There are good people who go to church. There are good people who don't. I can see the benefits of going to church. It's a great place to meet and mingle. It's a great place to impress others with your piety. It's a good place to make business contacts. It's a good place to have your ideas and beliefs verified by others, whether they are right or wrong. I've seen perfectly horrible people who don't miss a service and wonderful people who don't miss a service. Religion has an agenda. And in spite of what is professed. the agenda isn't entirely centered on the well being of individual members of the flock. The more people you get in the door, the more money and power you have. The more power you have, the more people you can get in the door. The more money you have, the more you can influence agendas. It's as political as any large business or for that matter any political campaign for public office. For me, there is little difference between a good old fashioned con man, a politician, and a sweet talking preacher.

A sports team does not need to pray. If each member wants to take moment that's fine. But as a team, it's for no other purpose than to show off as to how pious the coach and the players are. It's an attempt at brain washing and intimidation for those who might not feel comfortable in not praying when everyone else is doing it.

Well I didn't say that was the only church I have been to. There have been many over the years for varying reasons. But if that is how Lutherans are behaving now, then I was appalled. (The religion of most of my family at one time was Lutheran. I was baptized in and went to a Lutheran school for K and 1. When I was young I went to various churches, some for just one or two visits, others much longer, Methodist, Southern Baptist, Catholic, just to name a few. It's a long story but my parents didn't go. They just sent me to whatever church had a bus that would pick my brother and me up, and bring us home. Those were different times. And the only time I saw anything like the fervor that I saw at the most recent visit to a Lutheran church, was at the Southern Baptist service. Now those people knew how to get your attention!)

I've also seen bits and pieces of the services on TV and the same fervor is often apparent there as well.

As far as my husband going to heaven. Who knows? I don't. But I do believe that if there is a heaven then I'll be there too. I certainly believe my chance of getting there is as good as those who choose to follow a mindless path to salvation without questioning the whole idea of religion and what it has become. I think that if there is a god that he/she can see beyond the mindless followers of dictates from churches and find those of us who took a different path.

I believe that everything happens for a reason. I don't always understand, sometimes I never understand, sometimes it is months or years before I understand, and sometimes I understand immediately.

Do I believe in God? I don't know.
Do I believe the Bible? parts, but then again I think a lot of the Bible was written to further a cause.

A friend of mine posted the below on Facebook.
I found it incredibly interesting.

Jesus as a reincarnation of Mithra

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Interesting discussion. And I agree with some of what you said, particularly regarding the sports teams. However the Bible teaches that we are to do ALL we do to the glory of God. To honor him in all things......that may be the reasoning behind this.

But I particularly wanted to address what I've but in bold. It is not true. There is much historical proof for what is written in the Bible and some of it was written, specifically, Matthew, Mark, and Luke I believe, shortly after the crucifixion. There is more historical proof of what is written in the Bible than much of what is taught in ancient history courses throughout the nation and taken as fact.

__________________
Melissa

For me who does not have all the answers, with that being said when it comes to religion for me it is a personal choice and decision one would make , with what makes them comfortable..I also do not like people who dictate to me, that I am not a true catholic, it is either believe all the way or not cannot have it both ways. To which I would say, yes I can have it both ways because it is a personal choice to how I want my religion to effect me. I do believe in Heaven and Hell, I also know I will be in Heaven and I know just because I do not follow the bible word for word, I will still enter into Heaven.......Peace. Catherine

Clarification:
My belief based on what I believe the Bible teaches. It's a singular decision between the asker and receiver without relevance to outside input. Between the individual and God.

Organized religion is a turn off for you so I mentioned the one on one being more important than attendance.

I can see where fear of brain washing and fear of intimidation would be strong enough to keep some away. And to lighten up a bit, If you'll let me make a joke here. It's not just my brain, it's my sinful nature that needs washing too.
Laugh with me, at me or whatever... just know I'm being light hearted when I share that.

I share your keen observation that "those were different times".
I look back and see a different attitude towards God and Religion just as little as 40 years ago. That is why I see this generation being the g-a-p between what was and what will come to be. I, like you, am put off by television evangelism for profit and we don't attend a mega church although they are available in our area.
I question the whole idea of why Christianity has morphed into a "only if it's comfortable for me" kind of relationship instead of an awestruck humility with equally important resulting repentance.
I look no further than myself as an example of that last sentence. Fear of disapproval kept me silenced for a long time.

Again, I don't want you to read this next bit as arguing, I just wanted to add after reading a statement toward the end of your post;
I certainly believe my chance of getting there is as good as those who choose to follow a mindless path to salvation without questioning the whole idea of religion and what it has become. I think that if there is a god that he/she can see beyond the mindless followers of dictates from churches and find those of us who took a different path.

I shared the way I believe the Bible teaches is the only way you get your name written in book of eternal life. It's the "knowing" part instead of the hoping part to fellow believers.

Thanks for letting me share and having an open, honest and non-combatant conversation that helped me see things from another point of view.

X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Very interesting. Sounds to me like someone just changed the name from Mithra to Christ and called it the one true religion! WOW!

You are right. I had old information or got the information mixed up with something else that I read or heard.

*MarilynK that link was very interesting. I do remember reading that Jesus' birthday was not really on 12/25 and many of the Christian rites were conversions from Pagan festivals and rites. The Christians were trying to get rid of the Pagan festivals and Paganism itself, so they "borrowed" those ritual days and had their own festivals.

That is an excellent statement. As I stated earlier, look how many wars have been waged in the name of religion.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Very interesting thread - both sides
I believe that we all have a right to our own beliefs

Xhaustd I have a question for you. What makes you think that just because one is an Atheist or Agnostic that they are in fear of something?

I am an Atheist and am not afraid of religion. You have a right to in your religion and I have the right to believe in Atheism without any fear.

I also have the right to just stand at respect and not recite the Pledge of Allegiance or skip the "Under God" when reciting it.

I also hold my head high while a prayer is being said during a function. I also feel that it should be a silent prayer though many times it is verbal.

And why do so many people add a reference to "God" when forwarding e-mails when the original e-mail did not have that reference? When I forward, I delete all references to "God". The meaning of the e-mail remains the same without that reference.

Mrsnudge you have it correct, it is all about what makes each one of us comfortable about how we choose to live our lives......in the end it only effects us and no one else............Peace. Catherine

I didn't say that.

I'll quote myself from an earlier thread so you can re-read what I posted.
For the sake of understanding (not argument),
It almost feels like open hostility in the way you speak of religion or mock it entirely.
If 99% of anger is based on fear, what is the fear?

I wasn't speaking to their core belief, I was speaking to the behavior of anger or presence of hostility.

Name an anger that isn't based on some sort of fear. It's very challenging.

I don't know why so many people do so many things. Can't answer for them but I read your solution and fear that others would associate you with anything related to God (forwarded emails) requires you to take action to avoid that circumstance. Misrepresentation is a difficult thing to overcome.

X

I get angry when my husband leaves dirty dishes in the sink. No fear involved.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

When I get angry, in general it's others who should be afraid.

I get angry when someone driving in front of me goes way too slowly. I don't speed, by much or often, but I do expect to be able to drive at near the speed limit.

I get angry as hell when someone in the house walks off with my scissors, tape, or any other item that I'm careful to put away so that I can find it when I want it.

I get angry and disgusted at "squatters". You ladies know who you are. If you insist on squatting then clean up after yourselves.

I get angry at public officials who don't do what they should be doing. Or the ones that completely ignore the will of the people and go ahead with a project that we have voted against. It's usually something that benefits someone with a lot of money, like building a new stadium for the baseball or football team.

In none of these instances am I afraid, mostly just p*ss*d.

Ya'll gave easy ones.

JuJubee2
I get angry when my husband leaves dirty dishes in the sink. No fear involved.

Do you leave them there? Yes or No? Clean or Leave it either way: Here's some reasoning.

Answering No to that might be these fears:
Do you fear a bug infestation?
Do you fear a visitor to your home finding a stack to the ceiling like on hoarders that's just plain nasty?

Answering Yes to that question might be
the Fear that "if you take care of his mess once, he's liable to leave you mess again"so you gripe him out about it. Or If I have to clean this mess up, I'm having to do more than my fair share of housework because I didn't make the mess in the first place. It will cost me my time, which is valuable.

You might not want to admit there is fear but what then did prompt you to action or non action.

Wildwood yours were just as easy:

Fear of Driving that slow can get you mowed over in this day and age. Fear that you might be late because it's a delay in your ideal schedule.

Fearing that something might not be exactly where you left it when you need it is the fear of loss of resources. You fear the item might be lost or taken from you if someone uses another location to keep the item.

You fearing someone else's urine is one we all share. Could Disease spread this way? Fearing other Sanitation issues were neglected as well (handwashing). Fearing that fluid touching your skin will pass something undesirable to your body.

Getting angry at officials is fear that we're being duped, cheated, and misrepresented whether or not we voted for them.


Again, I believe in each instance you both listed, fear led to the feelings of anger.

Hey, I have these same fears. I feel anger too. I just believe it takes looking at the fear to understand the ferocity of that anger.

X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

And I disagree. I have a very old car. I would be happy if someone plowed into the back of me. Then they can buy me a new car. I simply don't like driving behind someone slow. It requires more effort and attention on my part and it's annoying to everyone behind that driver.

When I can't find something I am frustrated, not afraid. It's very simple. Keep your hands off my items unless you can put them back. Pure anger. I can always find the item eventually or make do, but that is not the issue. The issue is leave my stuff alone if you can't return it. This anger and frustration comes from years of this happening. The only time it stops, and then just temporarily, is when I throw a massive hissy fit.

I don't fear urine. It disgusts me that people are such slobs. If you can't sit down then go home to use your own toilet. Don't leave that mess for someone else to clean up. Again, not fearful, just thoroughly annoyed and disgusted.

And with the public officials. there is no fear. What is there to fear? They are stupid and possibly crooked, but not dangerous. I don't fear that I've been duped or misrepresented. I KNOW I've been duped and misrepresented.

I don't see where fear enters in any of these examples. Perhaps you are projecting your fears on me. If you fear things, maybe you think everyone does? I don't know, just saying.

Possibly a need for a belief in a god is because of fear. And because of that you seek to find fear in others.

If you don't fear getting hit, why take more effort and give more attention?
Ps. projecting my fear would be telling you it bothers me that everyone further back would be thinking I'm the reason for the disruption in traffic flow.

So you fear disorganization as the result of repeated violations. I've thrown a hissy fit or two in my day too.

Fearing the NASTY clean up is prompting the move to another stall or disgustedly doing the dirty job someone has to eventually do.

Fear they are spending your hard earned tax dollars on a wasted project?


and No, I don't seek to put fear in others. I just see it for it is. Fear is the precursor for the anger or agitated feelings.

People tend to decide for themselves what's tolerable.
It seems more clear in the end to see what started the beginning.

X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

I don't fear any of the things you mention. I get angry because he's being rude. Now I think you're just trying to make things fit your theory.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

No way. The course of the conversation led back through the thought process.
Fearing being disrespected is even something that even makes me upset with my kids.

X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Hmmm. I tried to follow this whole post but what it boils down to for me is this...

I am not fearful, angry or anything. I am good with what I believe, dont feel the need to share it with or push it on anyone. I am very indifferent. I dont care what anyone chooses to believe.

I think it is a personal choice. I do have to say though, that it bothers me when someone has passed away (no matter the age or circumstance) and people will try to offer comfort with platitudes such as "it was gods plan", "they are better off in heaven now". I find a simple "I am so sorry" is much better.

I think all this fear talk about how all anger is about fear is just total BS!

I'm not fearing disrespect. You can argue about my emotions until you're blue in the face, but since you don't know me, you don't have much to stand on.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Really? Anger is just an expression of fear?

I'm mad as hell because Ex got his child support reduced by a substantial amount. No fear, just anger. I'm angry because he hasn't seen the boys in 10 months. No fear, just anger and disgust.

I have no fear regarding Ex. NONE!! The boys are health & happy, so I don't fear anything regarding them as it relates to their father.

I was mad as hell when I found out that Ex had lied to me. NO FEAR just pure unadulterated anger.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Thank you!!!

The concept of the statement "anger is based on fear," is covered in some psychology classes. Mainly you will find the concept used in Anger Management, Self-Help classes, or human resource training at the work place.

Show me the data.

And, in the meantime, I'm curious - what is it that God fears when he is angry?

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Religion boils down to gut feeling?
I hope not as my gut has been feeling pretty bloated and crappy lately.
My religion is based on trying to live a happy life with consideration to others.I went to a baptist church but I wouldn't consider me to be of any particular religion.
I agree with lots of aspects from different religions but I don't feel the need to live a perfect life in reguards to morals and such.I been down that road before and found it to be too confusing.
I do believe in God as my own personal mentor though and pray a lot for loved ones.That about sums up religion for me.

__________________

The people that I know that have attended a self-help class was told anger is manily based on a fear. That the individual has to realize what the fear is before they can learn to control their anger (emotions),

I have no idea about your question about what God fears?
I do not often talk about my beliefs in religion or spirituality that is too personal of a question for my taste.

forrestlayne - I need more than hearsay to convince me.

As for the what God fears question - I was really directing that at Xhausted.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Ok..here is a link to a US college
Also on a google search there are tons of related information

Handling Anger : Counseling Center : Texas State University

"What causes you to get angry?

There are many types of circumstances that can cause a person to become angry. Perhaps the most common source of anger is frustration. Frustration occurs when you are blocked from doing what you want to do or from going where you want to go. It is a feeling of helplessness and loss of control. Bob is frustrated because he can't make the traffic move any faster.

Another primary cause of anger is disappointment. You are disappointed when situations, events, or people, including yourself, do not meet the expectations you have for them. Joanne is disappointed because James has not called.

Threat to our sense of security is also a major cause of anger. Situations that threaten your security like doing poorly on an exam, losing your wallet, or encountering a problem your not prepared to deal with can leave you feeling vulnerable and angry.

The common thread that runs through all of these situations is another emotion, fear. These situations all result in the experience of fear, like bob's fear of the consequences of being late to class or Maria's fear that her wallet and its contents are gone forever. Anger is an emotion of fear. It is a defensive response to the feelings of helplessness and vulnerability that fear produces. While fear is a passive emotion with energy directed inward, anger is an aggressive emotion that allows you to direct energy outwards.

Sometimes there are more subtle cause of your anger. Some people get angry because they fear being powerless or being taken advantage of; some believe that being aggressive is an effective way to get their way; many have not learned to deal with conflict assertively; some use anger to displace their feelings of guilt; and some people get angry because they overreact or misinterpret a situation.

We cognitively interpret most of our life experiences; how we interpret a situation influences how much anger we might experience. For example, if Joanne believes that James has not called because he frequently forgets, she probably will experience annoyance. However, if she interprets his behavior as not caring about her, her fear and anger may be magnified. If Kathy begins to believe that she will not get the class she needs, her anger will become intense."

That you'll die without realizing how much He LOVES you and wants you to accept His gift of salvation.

The fear of losing someone forever that you love so much, that you sacrificed for.

Alot hangs in the balance there.

X

__________________

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

I want numbers. I want to see the data and experiments they've used to determine that 99% of anger is based on fear.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Really? Then is this biblical quote saying that God is a fool?

Ecclesiastes 7:9
Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit, for anger resides in the lap of fools.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

jujubee......Then find them yourself. Good grief...is it REALLY the point? I think that in general the statement is true. Maybe it's not 99%......maybe it's 96.9%....what difference does it make?? None. But to argue this particular point is silly. You know what was meant and you either choose to agree or disagree. So disagree with it.

__________________
Melissa

As far as the question regarding what God fears....God's anger is righteous anger. I think that fits in the 1% of anger that is NOT based of fear.

__________________
Melissa

That's my point. I can't find any hard data to back it up. I think its mostly pop-psychology. Feel good stuff. Sounds right, so it must be true. I'm tired of scientific "facts" that are neither science nor facts.

If you think I'm silly, then why read my posts? Put me on your ignore list or whatever it's called.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Oh, I thought the 99% applied to each individual, not to anger as an entity unto itself. I guess someone other than me is experiencing a lot of fear-based anger, 'cause mine is no where near 99%

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I didn't say YOU were silly, I said to argue the point was silly IMO. And was the "99% of fear..." concept supposed to be scientific?? I guess we all get what we want out of a conversation.

I did think it meant 99% of fear as an entity. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

__________________
Melissa

Oh, ok. Xhausted seemed to be pretty adamant that there was no getting around the "fact" that 99% of anger is fear-based. That's why I got so adamant about having proof.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Just sharing a few links for others that might like to read more about anger/fear.
I do find this a very interesting subject.

"Jeanette Kasper has been crisscrossing North America and Great Britain for the past 15 years teaching workshops and coaching angry people what REALLY causes anger. She shared immediately usable anger management tips, strategies and techniques quickly getting a grip on your anger and becoming the calm person with patience you've always wanted to be. With 25 years of research, 20 years of using each of these techniques herself, and 15 years as a trainer, Jeanette Kasper is the best selling author of "Anger is NOT an Emotion" and "Calm the Kids & Keep your Cool."

7 Steps to NOT Smacking Them Upside the Head (article she wrote)

Jeanette Kasper - Solutions With People (link to her book)

Jeanette Kasper - Solutions With People (link to her website)

Jeanette Kasper's only credentials (according to her LinkedIn profile) are a BA in English and Psychology.

A BA barely scratches the surface of a subject.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

So Jeanette Kaspar has decreed that anger is fear. That takes a load off my mind.

I've added a new "fear" aka "anger" to my list. People who post crap on the internets and those who take it as gospel. Anyone can post anything and all of a sudden it's true because I read it on the net.

"Fear" is all around us. There are murder mysteries running all the time showing people being maimed and murdered. Movies, the same. The news always has warning about this person who is armed and dangerous, another who is stalking neighborhoods near you who is a known child molester, some middle east country with an unstable leader now has nuclear capabilities, e-coli was found in spinach, meat, peaches, (pick your food item), the flu is going to be really bad this year and there is not enough vaccine, there are new terrorist threats to the flying public, new dangers from old bridges, the economy is doomed, violence in schools is rising, drug use is rampant, the republicans are ruining our country, our water is dangerous, our air not fit to breathe. I can be mad about all these things, and yes it might be based in fear. There's a lot on this list to be fearful about. And the fear is cumulative, and, I think, somewhat addictive. I think we are addicted to fear.

But if I am mad about someone taking my scissors, driving too slow, etc, trust me, it's not fear, it's anger. I know the difference. I know it for myself. I don't know it for any of you. And you can't know it for me!

So if any of you are afraid of losing your scissors, slow drivers, etc, help is there for the asking. Just ask Jeanette Kasper. Just buy her book, or pay for one of her seminars. I'm sure she will be delighted to see you.

wildwood

The question that has to be asked of yourself is "why" is there anger "(But if I am mad about someone taking my scissors, driving too slow, etc, trust me, it's not fear, it's anger)"
Probably the anger might be that you are afraid of someone getting hurt, etc. Why are you feeling angry?
Edited to add I thought you had wrote running with scissors .

That is what people ...like the example of Jeanette Kasper are trying to point out.

Learning how and why we feel anger leads us to a more peaceful life.

This thread has exceeded the 50 reply limit and will now be closed. Please feel free to open a part 2.

Thanks!

~Cindy

__________________