The headline blares
Muslims say crosses at Catholic University Violate “Human Rights”

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...t-crosses.html

Uh, Hello. You had to have known it was a religious institution you were applying for when you applied to go to that college. There must have been subtle hints.
How many OTHER choices did you have?

Might one of those OTHER choices have been the BETTER choice for you considering your needs?

You don't waltz into someone else's home and start demanding the decor be changed while you are visiting. Consider the fact that you are a visitor for 4 short years and use YOUR DORM room as your prayer room if you need to.
PS. You might want to pick a room mate before getting there so you're both on the same page.
Use COMMON SENSE people. A little bit goes a -l-o-n-g- way.


Soapbox needed dusting. Thought I'd get a little done today.
X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Maybe they can hang some of that "muslin" over the religious symbols

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

Sorry but this really irks me, while we all have the right to choose the religion we feel comfortable with, and also to practice the religion we feel comfortable with, I am sorry this is America, America first and foremost, while I realize especially here in New York were, we are literally a melting pot of so many diverse religions, ethic backgrounds, if you choose to go to a school that already has been set up to reflect certain symbols that will offend you , then what would you like to school to do, take everything down, just to suit your religious beliefs. Example my youngest dd Caitlin was going to SVA in the city last year, and her major was photography and art, there were no religious symbols or pictures or anything. However she decided to switch her major and her college as well, a lot of work for parents who have not done it. However she now attends St Johns University in the Queens section of New York. This is a private Catholic school, their rules are much more strict, and all over the campus and hallways and grounds are statue's of Catholic religious figures, there are cross's everywhere. For my point there are many Muslims who attend this school, as they wear the head piece the girls around their heads. Now if they think for one moment that St.Johns is going to change for them, they have another thought coming.....I am truly sorry I do not like to have any hatred towards other's who are different, however this is America, not the middle east.....peace to hopefully having our troops come home safe ... Catherine

Whether it is America or the Middle East has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The issue concerns religion, not nationality.

It is a private university, so what they do is their own business, in my opinion. I'm an atheist - I wouldn't go to a Catholic university. But if I did, I wouldn't expect them to cater to my religious beliefs. So in the case of ridding the walls of crosses, I think the Muslims are wrong. In the case of the school not allowing a Muslim group when they allow a Jewish group, I think the school is wrong.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Yeah--what she said!

A private, religion sponsored/ran college/university should not have to bow to a demand to remove what is the core of their beliefs.

If there were a Muslim sponsored university, I would expect to see prayer rugs, and the praying 4 times a day facing Mecca--and I as a woman I would expect to be told to wear the head scarf or leave! Geez....I'm so sick of people thinking their rights supercede everything else!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

People are just plain nuts anymore. I'm afraid for way too many people, "human rights" has turned into "human entitlement" and "gimme what I want cuz I said so".

Before too long, no one will be allowed to have anything, anywhere, because it will offend someone, sometime.

Frackin' ridiculous!

Edited - Just skimmed some of the article. What they're asking for seems harmless - but it won't stop just there. Then this group then that group then the other group - they'll all develop the "I want because they have" mentality. All groups will need to be catered too. At what point does a Catholic University, stop being a Catholic University?

It's simple - don't go to a CATHOLIC University! Are people seriously this ignorant?

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DITTO what jujubee2, marilynk, and Ambrianna said.

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X, I agree with what you stated here. While reading the article, I noticed this comment by John Banzhaf, the attorney that filed the complaint:

Banzhaf said that it is technically not illegal for Catholic University to refuse to provide rooms devoid of religious icons.

“It may not be illegal, but it suggests they are acting improperly and probably with malice,” he said. “They do have to pray five times a day, they have to look around for empty classrooms and to be sitting there trying to do Muslim prayers with a big cross looking down or a picture of Jesus or a picture of the Pope is not very conductive to their religion.”


IF it is not illegal as HE just stated there, WHY is he filing suit against them?


Another part of his complaint against them is the SAME SEX dormitories that they have now. Somehow, he has decided that it is discriminating against the females at the school. scratching my head on that part!

I did take a moment out to research Mr. Banzhaf to see what else he has sued over in the past. It is interesting to read about some of his other lawsuits. The phrase "sue happy" comes to mind as I read about him. Here is a link about some of his other lawsuits:

Prof. John F. Banzhaf III of George Washington University Law School and Action on Smoking and Health (ASH)

This is a different topic but the same idea, sort of?

Pork removed from Ohio prison meals - Israel Jewish Scene, Ynetnews

I don't believe in religion but I'm thinking of starting one. I'm calling it the Holy Church of Porkers. The main tenet is that not eating pork is blasphemy. I bet I can get some converts in the prisons in Ohio. The church slogan will be "Where's the bacon?"

What has happened to common sense in this country? It's like people who buy houses near an airport then complain about airplane noise. Like my now deceased in-laws who bought a building lot next to the lot where the community stored their honey wagons and then built a house and complained about the odor. Like people who talk during movies and get upset that you don't want to hear it. Well duh!!!

I simply agree with all the above posters have said, and again what happened to America and being plain American..It has gotten so bad and we live in a world where God forbid, perhaps not the right choice of words to use, but being politically correct has been abused. Like the one removing pork from the prison..if your a Muslim and your religion believes the pigs are so dirty and will not eat the pork, same goes for the Jewish community, then just plain do not eat it, but to remove it completely and not let other people enjoy the pork is not fair. Honestly everyone here basically knows I do not eat any meat or fish, however I would expect , say to go into a restaurant and say hey I am a vegetarian so remove all meat or fish dishes from your menu, plain rude and not fair.....Peace for our troops to come home safely......Catherine

My favorite example is people who move from NYC to Vermont for "the country life" and then try to ban their neighbors (who've been there for generations) from having farms because of the smell and noise.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Yeah---when I worked as a 911 dispatcher, we were after hours contact for city streets. We get lots of snow here. So, we'd get calls from the people who had moved into the outskirts of town, up in the hills griping because their roads hadn't been sanded. Hello?? You knew when you moved you lived on a steep hill and it was on the outskirts---didn't you think you might need a 4 wheel or all wheel drive vehicle to get out in the winter?? *sigh* sorry to threadjack

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I agree with most of what has been said, except that I don't think the government has any business telling them that if they allow a Jewish student organization that they also have to allow a Muslim student organization.

My guess - though I am not Catholic - is that the Catholic religion recognizes the religious tie between Judaism and Catholicism and / or Christianity. Where the Muslim religion has always conflicted with Christianity, some might make the argument that Judaism was the precursor to Christianity.

I'm not saying that's my own perception of the situation, per se, but the issue at hand is freedom of religion, and the right of the Catholic institution to determine what falls within it's religious acceptability range.

An analogy might be if there was some religion based on Vegetarianism and they had a college. They might be willing to allow a club for students who do consume milk and eggs and cheese, even though the administration prefers abstinence from all animal products... but they wouldn't go so far as to allow a Hereford Burger club. :-)

I was out and about and thinking about my new church of pork. I came up with some slogans.

Thine Must Eat Swine.

And being an EOO type person, (equal opportunity offender), "Cow Now".

Now I've covered, (offended) Judaism, Muslims, and Hindus. Are there any religions that don't eat chicken? I would like to get everyone covered. Although it's hard to come up with a chicken slogan... So far... Give me time.

Wow imagine if there as a religion such as Vegetarianism, that would be funny no pun intended as I am a vegetarian and so are my daughters. With both of them they attended college's with a meal plan and naturally the meal plan included meat and meat by products and of course al forms of dairy. My eldest dd is more of a vegan, however the youngest is purely just a vegetarian and will consume all dairy products. However with that being said, it never stopped them from enjoying the meal plan, they just ate what they wanted..Granted the meal plans are set up more for people who consume meat and dairy products, which would include pork products would be effect the Muslim and Jewish students, but again they would just simply refrain from eating those items... Now if there was a religious college who's beliefs were of pure vegetarianism, I would imagine only students who believed in being a vegetarian would attend, and vegans would not be able to because they eat nothing that is made from a animal at all. However back to op, if you choose to attend a religious college , you cannot be offended by the religious objects. Just like St Johns where my younger dd attends, there is not problem for her, because she is Catholic, however like I said I did mention and know for a fact there are many muslims who attend, I am not sure about the Jewish community as they are very strict with their beliefs and religion, I do not think any attend, however I could be wrong, as on the grounds there are no temples to go to , to worship, and for Saturday being their holy day, they would not attend classes on that day, however Sunday is our holy day and people attend classes... Oh well...I know this in our school district, we do practice being politically correct , the children are taught about :Holidays, we talk of Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, and Ramadan, however there is never ever talk of Santa Claus at all no pictures nothing..While I think it is beautiful thing for the children to be exposed to all of it and to be aware of it, when I was younger, things were so different, today we must be very careful to never step on anyone's toes ever......Peace to our troops till they arrive home safe..Catherine

Lucy: It was just an analogy.

Insanity...it's everywhere I look...everywhere I turn...complete and utter insanity!

Wow I know it was not real, I posted some really nice information, sheesh with you I am damned if I do or damned if I don't...shaking my head............peace for out troops... Catherine

omg

fcol

hwga

stnc

iitbe

cpsfsiso

dl

Deddlastt why are you hiding behind the abbreviations, just come right out and spell it , thanks again now I really have to laugh sincerely laugh this is so funny, how you simply cannot leave me alone.....I literally find you hysterial and can only wait for what you will post next.........

This is so ridiculous I can't believe it.
I can't even believe anyone would consider it. A lawyer I understand they will do anything for money but this is stupid. Go to another school.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

"Although it's hard to come up with a chicken slogan"

The only good ckicken is a dead chicken be it baked, boiled, broiled, or fried!

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Sam

Lucy, I just meant that I really wasn't talking about vegetarianism.

Simply pointing out that where there is an overlap in belief systems, a group might be willing to step a little closer to the edge. When belief systems are entirely at odds with one another, an outright rejection is reasonable.

Okay Wow however you mentioned it and I thought I would go with it, and I left a real long message, which I know you like to write really long messages, and sincerely thought all I wrote was really nice and for you to come back and say it was only analogy, I was surprised and that is why I wrote what I wrote. Peace till our troops come home.. Catherine

Well it looks like the Church of Porkers, has a new chicken slogan.

Seafood anyone?

I hadn't posted on this sooner because I couldn't get the site to open for some reason. I finally got it to open this morning and was able to read it.

Now I know I'm going to echo the views of most on here.

I am an atheist and also strongly believe in the separation of Church and State.

However, this is not State - this is a private religious organization founded on Catholicism and they have every right to run their PRIVATE school as they please.

If the Muslims don't like what they are offered, let them open their own private school. GOOD GRIEF - they've built enough Mosques in most of our large cities - build your own College with prayer rooms as you need.

Want to join my Church of Porkers? No tithing required. It's still in it's infancy or should I say pigletsy. So I'm still working on the rules. Then when asked on a form what religion you are, you can say "COP". Oops. Maybe I need to think that one through a little more.

Too funny

Did I mention I'm a Jewish Atheist? But would love to be a COP. As long as I don't have to eat ham. Bacon, spareribs & pork o.k. But since it's your club, you can eat all the ham you want.

Well I was toying with the idea of eating pork being required. But since I'm in charge, so far, I will give you a dispensation. But you do have to eat your veggies.

Sorry OP. I have totally gone round the bend here and hijacked your post. I'll try to behave myself.

[quote=wildwood;3531397]Well I was toying with the idea of eating pork being required. But since I'm in charge, so far, I will give you a dispensation. But you do have to eat your veggies.

I don't eat ham because I don't like it. But I do eat bacon, spareribs & pork roast. Don't they count? No dispensation needed.

What about Canadian bacon? Is it bacon or is it ham?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I really don't know - but it tastes like ham to me. I will have Canadian Bacon in Eggs Benedict though.

Guess I better not run for political office - I'm so wishy washy

[quote=mrsnudge;3531401]Sure they count. I'm thinking anything counts as long as it annoys someone else. Well short of cannibalism, that would annoy me, so they would have to start their own church.

Sorry again OP. I just can't help it.

And back to the original post. Does this university receive public funding of any kind? That kind of changes things if they do.

I am sure they do receive public funding, but only for the secular things they do. There are very strict laws about institutions of higher learning and what they are allowed to do with government funds. If they violate those laws, they would be in a heap of trouble and lose eligibility for other funding, including, I believe, being a school students could attend and receive PELL grants, etc..

Students are not required to go to a government school to receive financial aid... but schools that are found to have spent government dollars (grants, etc.) on religion can be essentially blacklisted and students cannot use their federal financial aid to attend that school... so schools are extremely, extremely careful about staying in compliance.

At least... that has been my experience and understanding.

ETA: An example would be research dollars. A science department might receive a grant from the National Institute of Science to fund research on... oh... say... whether the speed of light can be slowed in any way. You could not use that money to purchase Bibles and study Genesis as part of that study ("And God said, let there be light, and there was light, and the evening and the morning were the first day.").... etc.

I need a bit more time on this one dedd... I can't tell if you're cussing me out on that last one or not.

If I had a witty come back, I'd use it.
This is what I get for being a non texter. but in my defense I did attend the right college (for me).

But to the thread at large, I do eat meat and would probably not attend a vegetarian college if there were other choices available.

X

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Me, too, X.

No way would I give up my burgers and chicken! :-)

here's my thoughts---there is NO college/university that has such a good program, that you couldn't find one that is better suited to your thoughts/beliefs.

If you are an atheist, why would you attend a Bible College or Seminary and expect your beliefs to be catered to?
If you are a Muslim, why would you attend a Catholic College/University and expect your beliefs to be catered to?
If you go to Gallaudet University, you probably should know or learn sign language!
If you go to Texas A&M, you should probably be sympathetic to military--and not protesting the military.

People! Use you're flipping brain--this world ain't all about you and what you believe.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Disclaimer: The following information was gleaned from FoxNews, and I know not everybody here is a Fox fan. Furthermore, it's from Hannity's show, so there are two strikes against it for some of you.

However....

Goodness, the segment I just watched was enlightening.

Hannity is off tonight. Monica (sp?) Crowley is his stand-in. She interviewed the lawyer who is bringing this suit. Here is what I learned:

No Muslim students at this Catholic school have complained. Not formally or informally. Not to the school, and not to the law.

The lawyer is not representing any students.

When asked if he was being funded by the Muslim Brotherhood he said, essentially, "That is not the issue." She pressed him and he said he would not speak of that. Then she asked him if he was being funded by CAIR, and again he refused to discuss it.

His argument was that a Muslim student association would not be allowed to form. She asked him if anyone had ATTEMPTED to form one, and he said that was not the issue. The issue was that it would not be allowed, thus the suit. He said they just asked for the prayer room because it was the Christian thing to do to allow Muslims to have a prayer room.

There are three mosques within two miles of the university.

It was quite an interview, and I'm sorry it doesn't seem to be available online. There is one with Hannity interviewing two people - one on each side of the issue - that is on the website, and it appears to be from yesterday's show. I'll link the one from tonight if they put it up later... but for now, here is the one I did find online.

Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Videos

For me it would be great to have a college that only served vegetarian dishes, just like restaurants who do not serve any meat and then there are more vegan restaurants, the thought of eating a hamburger or hotdog is the worst, so bad for you...and for the rest of the meat while I am sure if eaten in moderation is okay, again could never imagine. And when I hear what people in China eat, they eat every type of animal for me, personally plain disgusting and sad. I do however agree with the circle of life and realize that wild animals must eat to survive, that is it, they do it to survive, but the killer of it all for me is people who simply hunt for the sport, disgusting and we has a family my children and husband hate the idea....Peace for our troops.. Catherine

I love puzzles! Still working on the last two.

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DL, can you PM me the meanings of the abbreviations. I text but I can only figure out a couple of those and if they are good I can use them in dealing with my disfunctional family!

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Sam

Sounds like you need to go to a Seventh Day Adventist college then. I believe they are vegetarian and caffeine-free.

Alrighty... here 'tis.

Watch it and learn....

Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Videos

It's the interview with the lawyer who is suing the school.

As people have said, it is a private religious school and they knew where they were going. I live in the area and teach in a catholic grade school. We have students of other religions. They are expected to study religion and go to church with us. There are parts of the mass that they do not take part in. But parents know that info before the students enter. Crosses are symbols of our faith and expected to be in all areas of our school.

One question entered my mind. My son went to Marquette University which is Catholic. They were required to take religion classes. I wonder if that is a requirement at Catholic University.

No thanks wow I am a catholic that is my religion and there are many catholics who are vegatarians and vegans and find it to be a very easy way to eat and very healthy and less harm to animals . Being a vegetarian and a vegan effects many religions and many walks of life.......peace to our troops till they arrive home safely...Catherine

I went to a religious college and have 21 hours of Bible courses under my belt. A 3-hour course was required each semester, except for the semester I student taught. It wasn't optional... and that was fine with me. That was partly why I chose that college. I appreciated the emphasis on learning about the Bible, and appreciated being in an atmosphere where others shared the same interest. It provided an added depth to my experience to be able to have the frequent discussions about what we were learning that we had - both inside and outside the classroom.

The donors who support projects at the school also have that same 'investment' in the Christian religion, etc..

Obviously, there was much more to the school than that. The other 115ish hours I took were just your standard classes. But having also studied at secular schools, including graduate school online, I know there is a different 'vibe' when the emphasis of the school's mission id spiritually-based. If a religious group wants to go to great lengths to create that and fund it, in the name of their religion, that's their right... and it's not the right of individuals of a competing religion to waltz in and try to crash their party. They should start their own school if it's so important to them. They are free to do so here in America.

But again, I want to emphasize: NO STUDENTS FROM THIS SCHOOL HAVE COMPLAINED!!! The suit has been brought by a law professor from another school whose hobby is finding things he thinks are discriminatory and suing over them.

We were always partial to (when we worked under a dysfunctional administration)

ddss different day- same stuff( or any other S-word you wanted to use)

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

I reread the original post because it also stated in the original statement that they did not like the looming Shrine (church). If anyone has been to the area, they know that the Catholic Church owns much of the land around Catholic U.
Not only do they have the Shrine (which is not part of the school), they have Trinity College which is a woman's college (I have taken classes there), a seminary, the John Paul Institute(which trains people for various roles in the church) and several Catholic religious groups have buildings in the area. So they are surrounded for many blocks with buildings that are Catholic and have their symbols.

I find it interesting, both the questions and the answers. The fact that she did not ask if he was being funded by a group other than Muslims is telling. That fact that he would not answer is telling.

Perhaps he is being funded by an anti Muslim person or group. This suit, and the attending publicity, certainly does not endear Muslims to American society. Either she has not given it much thought or has been instructed not to ask that question.

His refusal to say could be several things. First whoever hired him is genuinely concerned and wants to remain hidden. Second, the person/persons are only interested in making Muslims look bad. Third, he is a grandstander with no one paying him. I'm leaning towards the latter, but it would be nice to have that question addressed.

My best guess is that she or someone on the show's staff knows exactly who is funding him. She asked specifically about the Muslim Brotherhood and CAIR... so I suspect that she knows they are behind it. I don't think the lines of questioning hosts use on shows like that come from out of the blue... ya know?

I do get exactly what you are saying. It's a common tactic, particularly in politics, to start rumors about your own side that will appear to have come from your opponents as a means to make the opponent look petty, etc.. So... I'm not discounting the fact that that happens.

My gut just tells me, though, that Crowley knows exactly who is behind his suit and that her questions were purposely leading to get him to either fess up, or respond like he did, which made him look guilty of hiding something. She would have asked an open-ended question - or no question at all - if she didn't have an idea what the truth of the matter was. Especially given that she named those two organizations with such specificity.

I could be wrong... but I can't imagine that a talk show host who sat on either side of the political aisle would walk in with questions like that without knowing the answer ahead of time.

I do hope that others follow the money trail and that the public learns who really is behind it. I just find it fascinating that the entire world seems to have reported that it's the Muslim students who were demanding that their 'rights' be acknowledged, when, if this segment was accurate, the students themselves weren't bothered by their state of affairs.

ETA: It doesn't seem in keeping with his prior suits that he would have anything to do with an anti-Muslim group using him to make Muslims look bad. He's a contrarian who takes the side of the less-traditional party.

This thread has reached the 50 reply limit and will now be closed. Please feel free to open a part two.

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