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Old 11-07-2011, 03:34 PM
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Anyone following the Michael Jackson case... they reached a verdict

I haven't followed this case closely, I just watched bits and pieces of it. But I am hoping for the Jackson family that justice is served. Like I said I haven't followed the case, but I am thinkng the dr has to be guilty only because although he claims he was not in the room when Michael gave himself the fatal dose, why did he keep allowing Michael to get the drug? I heard somewhere that he said he did it because Michael couldn't sleep and wanted the drug and he was also being paid $150,000 a month to be his personal physician. If that is true, and the reason he kept giving him the medication was because Michael wanted it, then he should be found guilty. He should have noticed the signs that Michael was becoming addicted and either slowly took him off of it or changed Michael's treatment plan.

What are your thoughts on the trial?
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:45 PM
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So many nuances I'm sure. While he was the physician, caring for Michael was probably not that easy. Telling him no probably no easier. Seriously, if he was in bad enough shape that he needed a 24 hour personal physician, where does his, meaning Michael's personal responsibility begin?

I haven't paid that much attention but I do have the news on right now watching it......what a circus.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:17 PM
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Here it comes.......
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:18 PM
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guilty....involuntary manslaughter.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:41 PM
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This can be a tough call, sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If he wouldn't have supplied the drug - Michael could have found someone who would. That's what his level of fame and money - even just notoriety as I'm unsure how much money he actually had - will do for you.

I'd like to think the doctor warned him repeatedly. Unfortunately that's hard to prove unless you have witnesses. I'd like to think the doctor had that much ethics. But at what point does the responsibility pass to Michael? Again - if this doctor wouldn't have given Michael what he wanted, another one would.

I'm getting tired of society's trend towards everything having to be someone else's fault or just one person's fault. I have a feeling this was definitely a case of more than one at fault. Unfortunately, who I feel is the other guilty party already paid with his life.

Guilty or not guilty, no matter what, there are just no winners here.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:23 PM
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I don't buy the excuse that if this doctor didn't do it, another would. The doctor's responsibility was to do what was right, not what someone else would do if he didn't.

I could just as easily say that I'm going to steal things, because if I don't, someone else will.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jujubee2 View Post
I don't buy the excuse that if this doctor didn't do it, another would. The doctor's responsibility was to do what was right, not what someone else would do if he didn't.

I could just as easily say that I'm going to steal things, because if I don't, someone else will.
I agree....and didn't one MJ's nurses walk away when he requested she get the medication or administer it?

While all Drs. need to listen to their patients, those same Drs. have an oath to do no harm.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:03 PM
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Good point Jujubee.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jujubee2 View Post
I don't buy the excuse that if this doctor didn't do it, another would. The doctor's responsibility was to do what was right, not what someone else would do if he didn't.

I could just as easily say that I'm going to steal things, because if I don't, someone else will.
This was just one point. I still believe there was some responsibility that was Michael's. Unless he was declared clinically incompetent, he has responsibility.

I understand what you're saying in your stealing scenario, I just think that is way oversimplified as compared to what happened with Michael and his doctor. I think there is a lot no one is ever going to know simply because they weren't present in the situation.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:35 PM
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This was just one point. I still believe there was some responsibility that was Michael's. Unless he was declared clinically incompetent, he has responsibility.

I understand what you're saying in your stealing scenario, I just think that is way oversimplified as compared to what happened with Michael and his doctor. I think there is a lot no one is ever going to know simply because they weren't present in the situation.
so, if I tell a doctor, "I need some morphine, because I just don't want to feel pain", the doctor should write me an open-ended prescription without doing due diligence to determine if morphine is the appropriate treatment?

Plain & simple, no ethical or moral MD would use a medication like Propofol (sp) for insomnia! No matter how rich and famous the patient is.

But, alas, I know they do
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:50 PM
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Plain & simple, no ethical or moral MD would use a medication like Propofol (sp) for insomnia! No matter how rich and famous the patient is.

But, alas, I know they do
Exactly. And Michael didn't have to ask or take it. Two very irresponsible sides of this coin. And it's very sad on both of those sides.

When you reach a level of fame that Michael had, what you want is what you get. I believe Michael was that set on having that med, he would have gotten that medication no matter what. If he was that fragile physically, his death was imminent. The only player that was interchangeable was the doctor. He could have been easily been replaced by another doctor, family friend, or drug dealer.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:09 PM
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Fortunately, we don't base our judicial system on what could have happened. That doctor made the decision to do the wrong thing. Guilty as charged.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:02 PM
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Exactly. And Michael didn't have to ask or take it. Two very irresponsible sides of this coin. And it's very sad on both of those sides.

When you reach a level of fame that Michael had, what you want is what you get. I believe Michael was that set on having that med, he would have gotten that medication no matter what. If he was that fragile physically, his death was imminent. The only player that was interchangeable was the doctor. He could have been easily been replaced by another doctor, family friend, or drug dealer.
The difference is a family friend or a drug dealer doesn't take the Hippocratic Oath!

It was obvious to me that MJ was mentally unwell--any self-respecting medical provider should have figured that out. I have seen/known Drs. who require psyche evals prior to performing certain surgeries or providing long-term narcotic medication prescriptions.

I cannot believe that anyone would or could defend the "doctor" in this case.
Kind of like defending the "doctors" that prescribed methadone to Anna Nicole Smith.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:52 AM
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The difference is a family friend or a drug dealer doesn't take the Hippocratic Oath!

It was obvious to me that MJ was mentally unwell--any self-respecting medical provider should have figured that out. I have seen/known Drs. who require psyche evals prior to performing certain surgeries or providing long-term narcotic medication prescriptions.

I cannot believe that anyone would or could defend the "doctor" in this case.
Kind of like defending the "doctors" that prescribed methadone to Anna Nicole Smith.
LOL!! Wow, it must be like I'm speaking greek!

I'm not "defending" anyone. I don't recall saying that the doctor was right in doing what he did, and I'm sorry if that's what you're reading. I probably more commenting on the ways of the world, and the ways of HIS world - meaning people like MJ who get whatever they want, no matter what the risk or cost.

Added to that, it's a sad situation on both sides of the coin.

Those were really my only two points. NO ONE was right in that entire situation, the victim or the guilty.
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