It is a sad day when the ladies of mycoupons don't care to discuss the upcoming presidential elections!! I feel like the Republican field of candidates is so weak that we die hard Republicans cannot bear to talk about it!! lol

What in the world is going to happen??!!! egads.

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Melissa

It is a pretty sad and scary field. I think the problem, one I'm not unhappy about btw, is that the party itself is so splintered. Unusual and no one is sure how to handle it. We Dems are always splintered and probably always will be, so it doesn't phase us as much. Looks like unless someone comes up with a big scandal, Willy is going to get the nod. It will have to be bigger than hiring illegals or flipflopping on just about every statement he has ever made.

The thing about it all is, there were at least three other possible candidates being talked about, Christie, Rubio?(sp), Bush, and I don't think any of them is any better than the current group. Huntsman was probably the best of the bunch, but couldn't buy a vote to save himself.

Did you see that the audience booed Ron Paul when he said we should follow the golden rule? Now that was funny.

Romney confirmed that his effective tax rate is “about 15%.” You know what that means - less than 15%, or he would have said 17% or whatever it actually is.

I don't blame him for taking advantage of the tax code, but he should own up to it and admit that the filthy rich paying 15% or less, while many of the middle class pay close to double that, isn't right.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Here's the deal with Romney's money, from my conservative POV:

Say he earned $1,350,000.

He had to pay income and other taxes on that money, and was then likely left with around $1,000,000.

He probably paid around $350,000 in taxes.

Then he invested that money, and when he takes it out he pays 15% on whatever interest he earned.

He's already paid over 1/3 of a million dollars in taxes on the money he earned through his work at the time he earned the money, and he didn't spend any of the million that remained that went into investments and was taxed at the lower rate.

To my way of thinking, he's doing what we WANT people to do - being responsible for his own needs and the needs of his family, AND will have ultimately paid plenty in taxes to support way more than one person's 'fair share' of what it takes to pay our military, build our roads, and help our disabled.

He wasn't working a 'job' last year, so whatever he made and lived off of was the product of money that had already been taxed at a high rate back when he earned it. When it's all said and done, I'd think we should want our president to have those attributes as part of their personal history.

Personally, I'd have preferred the NJ gov over these dudes, but I prefer any of them to Obama!

You're assuming the invested money is money he earned, not reinvested capital gains. Romney's net worth is 202 million, according to CNN.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I'm honestly not being a smart aleck - I promise. I'm just trying to understand. Isn't reinvested capital gains still money he (or anyone else in that situation) earned? I admit to being very conservative, but not very knowlegable when it comes to the tax code or who pays what, when insofar as taxes. Probably because I never have any left over money to invest. I'm willing to be educated, though...just can't seem to make heads or tails of it by myself.

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If tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends, bring on the crumpets!

I meant earned income the same way the IRS refers to it:
What is Earned Income?

Interest and dividends are not considered earned income.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Okay! That makes sense to me. I was thinking of it as in, "I went out, got a job, earned the money and then..." I get what you're saying now. Thanks! I really, really need to get a grip on this sort of thing. Not only in the hopes of "one day" having money to invest, but in terms of becoming educated in a topic I'm extremely ignorant about.

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If tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends, bring on the crumpets!

Personally, I could care less how he obtained whatever he has, so long as it was by legal means. Earned income, investment income... if he chose to risk it in investments, it's his to do with as he pleases.

If his investments had gone sour, the government would not have been a safety net and reimbursed him for his losses. When he invests well, the liberals want to get their grubby little hands on what he managed to gain...and from my point of view, just because they want it doesn't mean they have a right to confiscate it via taxes.

By the way.... I wish I could like Newt, but I just don't respect him or trust him. When he debates, he's articulate, and like Biden did for the Obama ticket, he brings a lot of 'tribal knowledge' about how to work Washington. That's valuable, and it's something Palin didn't have (but McCain did).

But regardless of his level of experience in the system... his history tells me he isn't to be trusted. I think the way he tries to infuse God and faith into where he currently is in his life is blasphemy, because I don't think that his current marital state is in any way aligned with holiness. He takes God's name in vain every time he gives God 'credit' for putting Callista in his life. Blech.

He got his money at, was it Banes?, and it was not a salary. He received it as investment money, thus the 15% tax rate. It was taxed at the capital gains rate, not as a salaried rate, which would have been much higher. There was no direct income tax put on the many millions he made at Banes. One of those nifty little loopholes that the Republicans would hate to see closed.

Exactly, wildwood. Legal means doesn't necessarily mean appropriate. Romney's situation is a prime example of what's wrong with the U.S. tax system. Frankly, I don't want my "grubby little hands" on Romney's money. But I don't want to pay what *should be* his share of taxes, either. And what's with him offshoring assets in the Cayman Islands? Can't wait for the details on that to roll out.

Why won't he show his tax returns? I thought be believed in "transparency." In 1994, Romney asked Ted Kennedy to release his tax returns to prove that he had nothing to hide. What has Romney got to hide??

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

No problem!

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

If that's so... I really don't care.

If it was legal, then power to him for doing it in the way that was the most advantageous.

I remember Clinton claiming $8 per pair of donated underwear on their tax returns. Crazy? I think so, but it certainly wasn't illegal.

I remember John Kerry registering his yacht in another state that had a better tax rate than his own Massachusetts.

If it was legal, it was legal, and if somebody doesn't like the way the system is, then work to change it. It's laughable when it's said that this is a loophole that REPUBLICANS don't want to do away with. Um... something tells me that wealthy DEMOCRATS make great use of these.

He's still paid way more in taxes that have supported our nation than the vast majority of Americans.

Class warfare = Unimpressive

My understanding is that presidential candidates do release their returns... but he's not been declared the Republican candidate yet. Personally, I wouldn't care to release my private documents if it was not yet necessary. If some other candidate overtakes him then he laid his private, personal information out for the world unnecessarily.

It's scrutiny nobody wants to undergo if they don't have to, and it's not yet known if he will have to... so why do it now? I don't think it is a matter of 'hiding' anything. I think it's a matter of knowing that when he releases them, they'll become THE distracting topic for awhile, and he'd probably like to control WHEN that happens.

Personally, I think he'll release it sooner rather than later.

Speaking of releasing documents, why did it take so long for Obama to release his birth certificate? lol Mind you - I never doubted he was born in Hawaii, but he certainly toyed with people for years when it was within his power to just lay it out there.

Didn't take long for Clinton to be brought up did it. BTW it was several pairs of underwear at $2 each, not $8 each. Still outlandish but not quite so much so.

Registering a yacht is certainly not in a class that Romney's income is.

It is legal but you try getting anything changed in this political climate. That would be considered "raising taxes" and in case you hadn't noticed, it's the Republicans who are staunchly pushing back on that idea. If they don't they will be in trouble with Grover Norquist. I'm sure wealthy Dems do take advantage when they can. Who wouldn't?

How do you know what he's paid over the last 25 years or so. He hasn't released his taxes has he?

What do you mean by "didn't take long for Clinton to be brought up?" My point was that if the issue is that maximizing legalities related to money is an indicator of character, then in order to be intellectually honest, one needs to recognize that it's a widespread thing and others are 'guilty' of this same charge.

I don't care if it's 'just' a pair of underwear or 'just' a yacht (I can't believe how funny that sounds - trying to imply that somebody with MILLIONS of dollars who is a congressman for his own state will not let his own state collect that taxes it would SEEM they should be due on his YACHT - YACHT!!!! - and paying taxes, instead, to a neighboring state where he doesn't even live with a cheaper rate!)....

Sorry, lost in my own bad syntax. lol

Bottom line... how one behaves with little is an indicator of how one will behave with much, no?

Whether it's a 'loophole' or a 'strategy' seems to be entirely dependent of the politics of the one being discussed, wouldn't you say?

I'm not "blaming" Romney for taking advantage of legal loopholes or strategies. I'm using him as an example of why the tax system needs to change.

However, Romney does speak out of both sides of his mouth. Even the Republicans complain about that.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

My first choice would be Christie, but he's not running, so...

Even Christie is calling on Romney to release his tax returns.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

And...?

Bottom line...

Suddenly Perry decided on Monday night that this was an issue he could probably get Romney on, so for the past three days or so, there has been pressure for him to do it. If Perry had tried to zing him about how much he pays for haircuts, the media would be clamoring for that information and saying he has been 'hiding' it.

"Why isn't he doing it???? What's he hiding?!?!?!" That's what we are hearing from every direction - okay, well, from the left and from Perry supporters, who no longer have their candidate in the race.

Romney said in response to Perry's statement that he had planned to release them - if he released them - in April. There is no law saying he has to release them at all, but major party candidates usually do release them. They have since the 70's, according to an AP article I'll link below.

When to release them is no doubt something a candidate strategizes about. I can well imagine that Romney wouldn't care to release them on Perry's terms during a week when two debates are scheduled. It would take him off message because all the focus for this entire week would've been on Romney's taxes and nothing else. Even if he felt he had nothing to hide, he's smart enough to know that people will want explanations for things, and now isn't the time he cares to get mired in that particular muck. I'm sure he's just pacing himself and trying to control the dialogue during a critical week in a critical state.

From an AP article in the KC Star:

Read more here: Tax return often an issue for White House hopefuls - KansasCity.com

Just saying that even your man, Christie, is biting at Romney's heels.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I don't imagine that Romney wants to release his returns no matter when. Using the debates as an excuse is as good as any. But lately, when aren't there debates? I don't think Romney has done anything illegal concerning paying his taxes.

I, like jujubee would like to see the laws changed. He is a poster child for why they need changing.

I think that income of any type should be taxed as earned income. Using the same rates and calculations that are for people with salaries. You want to simplify the tax code? That one thing would really simplify the whole thing. You make money it gets taxed at the rate that the tax code calls for. No special deals for those who buy and sell stocks, no special deals for those who get stock options. No special deals for those who own gas and oil rights. And on and on. You inherit, pay the taxes. Short term, long term same deal.

I don't think I'd describe it as 'biting at his heels'. That implies that Christie is pursuing Romney and trying to get him to do it. I don't think that's an accurate picture.

Christie has been interviewed on tv and has been asked about it, and has said he would encourage him to do it sooner rather than later.

Christie says it's up to Romney, that he says he's going to release them in April, and he thinks that's fine. He, himself, said he releases them as soon as he files them, which is generally in April.

Video here: Chris Christie Says Romney Should Release Tax Returns, Defends Rate | Video | TheBlaze.com

Well, for him, April. There won't be any more debates once April is here and it's pretty much known who the Republican candidate will be.

That may very well be why candidates traditionally reveal them, regardless of the reason often given that that's when they are filed, so that's when they are available. A party's candidate is then known, but it's far enough away from the actual election and the time they'll have to debate the opposite party's candidate that it's not likely to have any lasting impact.

Perry wasn't doing well, and had nothing to lose. His financial picture is nothing like Romney's, so if he wanted to try and gain support by trying to paint the picture that Romney has wealth and that he was more of a 'regular guy', well... I think that was a Hail Mary move to try to stay in the race.

Like I said... Romney wouldn't be my first choice. But my first choice isn't running, and I like him much better than Mr. O.. I just don't fault him for wanting to release them on his own terms and not because a has-been candidate tried a tactic to make him look bad and he couldn't maintain control of the dialogue.

I find it amusing he tried to call out Ted Kennedy on it, but now he's no more "transparent."

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Hey, it's politics.

I don't know the background between him and Kennedy, so I can't comment on that.

Regardless... I still think it's expected for a candidate to want to time their transparent moments during a campaign. A no-holds-barred, reveal anything anyone asks for on the day they bring it up policy isn't something I'd expect from anyone on either side. I think it would be foolhardy to run a campaign that way.

If and when the man is the Republican candidate, then he can follow the law and release the required information....before that so what?


Speaking of "information", how can anybody look at the "conservative" Newt the same way again. Now THAT was so interesting information from the ex wife....one of three??

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

Color me cynical. I feel it doesn't matter who we vote for. Aside from a few social issues all the candidates on both sides (oh I forgot there's only person on the Democratic side) they are so the same. All they care about is keeping the status quo. Both parties take big money from big interests and both sides don't give a damn about the working class person in this country.
I feel Obama will win this one no matter what it's already set. I feel he is the less of all the evils because of my social views. But I am by no means happy nor excited as I was during the last election.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Interesting that you were "happy and excited" last election ... when you bought in to words....heck even the prize givers from Sweden fell for the words.

There are a heck of a lot of disappointed people this time around becasue the words did not result in anything....so I am more than a little concerned about the R. candidate. I think he has a real chance of beating the man who loved his teleprompter

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

I actually thought this President would change things for the better for the working class. I was an idiot to fall for it. Nothing has changed in any way. At least not for the better.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

The man had no plan except empty words. Had never run or organized anything more than his household ..and I think Michelle may have done more of that.

He was a Senator but knew he didn't like being one of 100...wanted to be one of one. Convinced Ted Kennedy that he had a vision and in the end turned out to be someone TK could relate too since BO turned out to be all style and no substance just like TK's brother. I am guessing that the brain tumor was already growing in TK since he went all out of BO...to the detriment of the Dem party and the whole country.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

But even in the last election he was the least of two evils so the option could have a lot worse.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Here is a list of Obama's accomplishments. I'm not sure what time period it covers. It's so long that I've just glanced at it so far. And I realize that some of you will not consider many of these items as accomplishments. But for the rest of us, here it is in list form.

A List of President Obama's Accomplishments So Far! (The PCTC Blog)

Hysterical!!

That lovely blog you sent us to gives him props for IMPROVING THE ECONOMY!!!!!!!!!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Sorry. I just couldn't help myself. Last I checked, it's not better than it was when he took office.

Gasoline costs alone are insanely up about 86% from when Bush left office. When gas prices are that high, all goods and services can't help but be expensive.

Thanks for the laugh! :-)

Actually I have to agree partly with you. Sarah Palin.....OMG!!!! I am curious what exactly it was that kept her out of the race this year when it looked like she was poised for the run.....too many skeletons????

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

This is from the DailyKos
"http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/09/1034353/-Since-inauguration,-the-economy-has-improved-dramatically

34 months later, the Dow is up 50%, GM has been saved, tens of thousands of jobs with it. GDP for the latest quarter is an anemic 1.3%, yet represents an improvement of 10.2% from where we were at at the end of the Bush administration. Taxes are lower for all but the very richest Americans. Despite the hysterical protests of a movement called "Taxed Enough Already", all Americans are enjoying a tax burden that is historically low. Tens of millions of Americans previously without access to health care now have hope. We've had eight consecutive quarters of economic growth, and despite massive government layoffs, have experienced a net gain of jobs every month the last two years.

The stimulus, watered down with tax cuts as it was, nevertheless worked. It put the brakes on the job losses, then turned the corner to positive job growth. Unemployment topped out a little over 10%, then reversed course and worked its way down to 9%. A bigger stimulus would have produced better results."

I don't know where you live but here in the St. Louis area, things seem to be leveling out. There are more jobs available, houses are selling and although there are still signs of distress, there seem to be less so than 12 months ago. Coming back from an almost disaster of a depression is never smooth and never easy. It takes time. We were on the brink and it has turned around. Things are getting better in spite of Republican efforts otherwise.

Well I can't see all these improvements. The only thing I can commend him for is getting rid of DADT.
Here in Oregon the economy and the job prospects are NOT getting any better for anyone other than the people who clean out foreclosed homes.
The numbers may look like they're going down in some areas however that's because of people being employed but earning less and/or working less hours than they need. Also many have just given up.

I was looking to Obama to level the playing field a bit for lack of a better term. I hoped he would stop cutting taxes for people who are wealthy and start cutting taxes for some of the rest of us.

I hoped he would do something about providing incentives to companies to return jobs to the US I was hoping he would be not collect money from large entities who then expect and receive favors.

I don't see anything better than it was when Bush was in and those are some sad words.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I don't see anything improving where we live. Seems the only people getting really good jobs are those who have masters degrees(or more)....now apparently unless you have this almighty degree, no one wants to employ you no matter how much experience you have. Great deal for the colleges...HA! I don't know about everyone else but I don't have the time, money nor motivation to go back to school for some 6 or 7 years(or more) just so I can make a half way decent income...UGH!

Almost everyone I talk to has had somewhere in their family, a recent college graduate come back home to live and take ( if lucky) a job below their education...

Houses are still going into foreclosure or just being deserted.....no improvement. Can't figure out how the Dow is so high but nothing is coming out of it.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

Well some places were hit harder and will take longer to come back. I'm seeing help wanted ads in stores and fast food places that weren't there a year ago. I'm seeing restaurants full of people in the evenings and some restaurants that I thought would not last the year are still hanging in there.

My son found a job after being out of work and living with us for a few years. He's had other jobs offers since then as well. No masters degree there. He started his degree at the local community college, did a short time at a state college and finished his degree in the Navy. His degree is not even remotely used in the field he's working in.

My son-in-law who works out of state, but resides here legally, is busy busy busy. He runs hazardous waste removal and demolition crews in several states and is always hiring. Right now he has crews in NY state, FL(2 or 3), and I believe one of the Carolinas and Tx. He has trouble finding good crew members. Not a high end job, but the pay is pretty good if you don't mind getting dirty.

hope your areas start to pick up soon. I think they will.

The company I work for now has over 150 job openings for professionals. That's not counting internships available to students. There's 27 of those.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

What do you expect to come out of it? It has nothing to do with most things. It moves because those with money make it move. Those without are not really affected by the Dow.

Somebody is making money from the SM.......company owners? Banks? Insurance Companies?

People who can employ those without money? Banks who can lend money or save homes?

Yea...there is no relationship between the SM and America's eonomic health

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

I have no clue what you are saying but will try to answer you anyway.

The Dow is not high for one thing. It has barely moved in the last 12 years. The Dow is an average of 30 giant company's stocks. It is about where it was 12 years ago. There are thousands of companies that are not part of the Dow.

The money makers are those who buy and sell stocks, short sale stocks, options, traders who trade in microseconds. Those people respond to information about business being good, the economy looking up, and other external indicators. So if stocks are rising, it's because something is looking worth gambling on. A company might start hiring and that might trigger some interest in the market for that particular stock. That stock movement might or might not spur that company to do more hiring, more lending, or more producing or just sitting on their thumbs. Insiders will know it before it happens and that will also trigger movement in stocks.

So the slide back on 09 had nothing to do with the dire economic state we have been in since then....and that crash in 29 had nothing to do with the Depression?

Oh....thanks so much for whatever it was you offered.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

Back to the candidates. I can't understand for the life of me how Republican women can support Gingrich with his very perverse idea of marriage. When his former wife talked of him wanting an "open marriage" I was just sick!!!!! He is a self pompass......yes, I meant that spelling, .....loud mouth liar and can't possibly be a Christian. NO self respecting woman of any political affiliation could vote for him.
In my opinion, we will yet again be voting for the lesser of the evils.........Newt Gingrich needs to crawl back under his bridge.....just for his thoughts on how he treats his women.........

I am going through "discussions" with my cousin who is against marriage equality because it "devalues marriage" and he is all gung ho for Newt the Shrute. He said that Newt had a religious conversion so he shouldn't be judged on what he did before.

I told him all the inmates at the penitentiary had religious conversions also so we should release them all.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

No kidding! Remember Chuck Colson from Watergate? He found religion in prison!

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

They all find religion in jail lol.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

good one annadrose!!!......ok so that's my new mantra too. I had a religious conversion!!!!! LOL

In other words, god made him vote for Newt.

I think Obama will lose the election no matter who the Republican candidate is

That is EXACTLY what he said!!!

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Go figure. God told me to vote for a Democrat.

"I think Obama will lose the election no matter who the Republican candidate is"


Geeze that's scary!!! Obama is no prize for sure, but there are worse, as we are seeing in the debates:-o ......................I would like to think that voters will vote for the person, not the party!!!...............again, the lesser of the evils!!

I sure think it's sad that we're forced to vote for the lesser of all the evils. We should have several people we're excited about. The political system in this country is broken. I don't think it will be fixed unless there's some sort of magical event that occurs. How likely is that? As long as we have a system where money rules & politicians can be bought by the highest bidders let's face it : we're screwed.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.