You know the one. The Bully. The one that yells at everyone, hits, pushes, screams, ect.

We had a few problems last year with him hitting and ended up checking in with his teacher everyday after school to see how his behavior was. If he had an anger outburst he didn't get to play on the grass after school with his friends. If he hit he was grounded from TV and friends (including his brother) for the rest of the day. This worked very well.

This year has been good. So good at our parent-teacher conference I thought the teacher had us confused with some other kid. He has the same teacher as last year and I know he would have told us if my son was acting up.

On friday I was late picking them, both my boys, up from school. A friend was outside the school watching them play with her two kids. The lunch lady came up to her and warned her that the kid her kids were playing with was very mean. After finding this out I called the school to see what was going on and why no one had contacted me about it. The office ladies asked all the yard supervisers and no one knew of any problems. Well today my friend talked to the lunch lady again and told her I was the kind of parent that wants to know about issues concerning my kids. The message passed to me was to call the school and leave a message for Ms. Tammy with my phone number and she would call me with the information.

I do not know what my son is doing at school but I can tell you he is a brat at home. He is the youngest in his class (just turned 6 and in the first grade) and his is small for his age (still in a size 4). He yells at everyone and beats up on his older brother. I do not allow this behavior at all. I have tried all the normal routes of punishments, short of beating him, and am now at a loss of what to do. Its too the point that he stands in the corner for 30min at a time. During this time I ask him every few min. what he did to get put in there. Then he has to write 3 things he could have done instead of yelling or hitting.

Here is a list (off the top of my head) of punishments we have tried:
warnings, no TV gameboy or anything of that sort, grounded from favorite toys, throwing away toys he has thrown in anger, soap in the mouth, corner, grounded from friends, grounded from favorite toys, spankings, talking ("do you like it when you are hit? Why do you think other people like it? Why are you so angry today? ect.")

Please help me. What can I do to let him know this kind of behavior is not going to be allowed.

BTW we had him tested for ADHD and they said he shows signs of it but they do not want to medicate him since he is so young.

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You laugh at me because I am different,
I laugh at you because you are all the same.

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What about home schooling?

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Ok I might get blasted for this....Try to keep him off of medicine if at all possible. I too have a son like yours my middle son. He was born angry.He was diagnosed with..ADHD, Aspergers, Depression, Anxiety and something else can't remember. So After that I left the Dr office with a handfull of prescriptions. I thought about the meds but decided this was not best for my son. Do you know what helped him? You won't believe it.....A diet. All natural and low sugar and little to none with the food coloring. I am not saying that this will help you but it is worth a try. Basically I put him on the adkins diet "carrie style". I slowly started adding things back into his diet and kept track of behaviors if I saw him acting out again I would know what foods caused this.
I know it is so hard to have a child that is hard to deal with but don't forget they grow up and leave and they are usually normal everyday people. If you need help with a diet plan please feel free to email me and I will help.

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cmemaloy@yahoo.com


I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not.

Life! is a coin. You can spend it anyway you wish, but you can only spend it once.

I definately agree with the whole diet thing. Maybe you could try that. I have a friend who's son cannot have ANY red food coloring. She says he changes when he does have it and not very nicely. I mainly wanted to just applaud you for being so involved and on top of things. SO many times we want to make excuses for them and not face their behavior. At least I do! I always said I'd never be that way too, and here I am trying NOT to make excuses for them.

I have 3 boys. They can be rough and wild. They are totally different from girls. Have you thought about getting him involved in sports or Karate? Karate is suppose to teach you self-discipline. I've spoken a few times with a karate instructor in our area and he's reassured me it's not a violent sport. That by the end of the semester all those kids down to the 3 year olds are saying "Yes, sir" and "No, sir". The only reason they aren't enrolled is that it would cost us about $300.00. WOW!!!! OH, I forgot to a say EACH! I don't think it's that much everywhere.

I can recommend 2 books Dr. Dobson's Bringing Up Boys and Lisa Wechel's Creative Discipline. Also Focus On the Family has a wealth of info at their website Family.org. They also have counselors you can call and talk with. You may have to leave a message, but they will return your call. I've called about our oldest and having him tested for ADD and they recommended someone. We also decided not to put him on meds.

Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you. I think you are doing a great job.

Kelly

I will third the NO medication. Have you spoken to his peditrician? Perhaps he can help you or advise you of the next step. Perhaps your child could go to a psychiatrist just to help him work out whatever is bothering him.
Stay calm and love him.
I am in NO WAY judging you or thinking anything badly about your son.
(I sometimes wished that on posts you could hear the persons voice.)
Take care.

ALSO, I think that it was soooooooo way out of line for the school employee to speak badly about a student to a parnet!! Her actions should be discussed with the administration.
I like to watch the Nanny 911 type shows. She always has some great points to help parnets.

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Here's another perspective-- I'm focusing not on the diet or meds, but on the consequences that he's had. It sounds like you've been very creative, and very fair, and have tried everything!!! I feel like I was where you are.

However, how about starting with nothing, and having your son "earn" each activity/special item back? We did this with DD years ago. We stripped her room of all extras - stuffed animals, toys, jewelry, personal affects. We left a few of her books, and all clothes. Each day that was successful (for us it was following directions, and respectful behavior), she earned some stuff back. We would give her two or three things (of OUR choosing), and she'd begin again the next day.

You might not want to be so drastic - you may not feel the need to take everything and start fresh, but it did give us a chance to put things in a "rewarding" trend, instead of always being the punishers. It was a matter of "reframing" our role as rewarders, rather than punishers (after the initial cleaning out of her room, anyway).

We would also set up in the morning "If you show us that you can __________ today instead of _____, then you will have earned 30 minutes of gameboy time." Of course, with the new, if way your kid doesn't actually earn his gameboy time, when he goes to ask for it, you simply ask: "Did you earn it today?" YOu don't even have to be the one who took it away - you're just the one who asks if he earned it. It's all on him. It sure does take the voice of doom out of you - that can be a downer for your own mental health!

Just get yourself out of the position of always having to react. That can feel like a rat on a running wheel - and very negative. Set up the positive goal to be reached, and set yourself up to be the giver of the reward, if it's earned. Try to avoid saying "Don't be a bully, don't get in trouble..." - Rather say things like "Remember to be a good friend today - remember to make us proud today!" I know it sounds so corny, and maybe not even that significant, but I think it matters in the way we now talk to my daughter! I don't feel like her keeper, I feel like her conscience, instead. It's made a big difference in the way I view myself, and I am pretty sure it's made a big impact on our relationship w/each other, too.

I think you sound very strong, and I applaud the fact that you haven't given up on him - you've really stuck to working on this! There are SO many parents who just decide to give up, and overlook the things that are too painful to take on. You obviously love your son. We're proud of you!!!

Please keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!

I would suggest rewarding your son when he has good behavior. You can do it with a sticker chart or something -- when he gets 10 stickers he gets to pick something special (going for ice cream, a matchbox car, etc -- whatever motivates your son).

My oldest is highly motivated by rewards. We punished him for bad behavior, but his behavior didn't improve. Once we switched to rewarding for good behavior (like they do at school -- last year in kindergarten it was 5 'happy sticks' and this year it's 10 'super star' sticks gets you a trip to the treasure box), his behavior has improved greatly. His behavior was not as extreme so your DS, but it wasn't good, either.

I have a 'treasure box' in my closet, filled with Matchbox cars, activity books, sheets of stickers, small toys etc. -- dollar store stuff or things I find on sale or clearance for very inexpensive. Sometimes I'll let my kids pick things when we're shopping and they can earn them from the treasure box.

When I first started the treasure box, we had a list of good behaviors that I expected -- we kept it simple so it wasn't overwhelming to DS (be kind and helpful to others, use good manners, use an indoor voice and no running in the house). If they exhibited these good behaviors, they got to pick something from the treasure box once a day, now it is more like once a week, when I catch them doing something extra good, or when I need help with something, sometimes I will offer a treasure box incentive.

I know some will say that you shoudn't reward (bribe) your children to behave, but for us, it was more like behavior modification. After awhile, once the good behavior is a habit, you won't need to reward as often. Also, keep the rewards small and make sure they fit -- 'when you earn 10 stickers, we'll go to Disney World is pretty extreme, while 'when you earn 10 stickers, you can pick out a matchbox car' is reasonable.

Keep working with your childs teachers and school as well as your Dr. They can be valuable assets, but stick to your beliefs and if you don't want to medicate, don't.

Sarah......mom to Jason & Devin

Dr. Dobson's "Strong-Willed Child" is another good book

As far as what is going on at school...I would wait to hear from this lunch lady person. I would hear her out, but it is possible she is basing what she is saying on some past behavior that he has corrected. Like someone else mentioned...it was completely inappropriate for her to discuss your son with another parent. Luckily, this parent was your friend and could warn you, but how many other people has she spoken to. The gossipy lunch lady is spreading a negative opinion of your son, and that in itself will affect how others treat your son. He will pick up on how others are treating him, and it will affect his behavior (for the worse). I would definitely discuss HER inappropriate behavior with the school administration. Also, if he is that much of a bully, his teacher or the playground teacher WOULD notice...and you would be hearing about it from someone in authority...not the lunch lady.

Everyone knows that sometimes children are very much different in the classroom then they are on the playground and/or cafeteria where it is unstructured and a 'free-for-all'...

Bad for cafeteria worker to do that; I'd talk to the principal about that. It sounds like she is the one with the problem, not your son! Try not to let it get to you. It is one person's opinion and she does not know your son.

The teacher is the one that I'd be concerned about and it sounds as though she is very happy with your son's progress from last year and would let you know if there are problems. Her opinion is what matters!


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I feel your pain! My middle son who is now 11 is the exact way that you describe your son. He was born pissed off and with a huge sense of entitlement. He has been suspended for fighting more times than I can count, appeared to be lazy and careless. For the past three years we have had him tested for everything from ADHD to Sensory Intergration Issues. He was even in a Harvard sleep study for kids. After seeing tons of Dr's and therapists and spending $5,000 in one year out of pocket and seeing a nutrionalist who placed him on mega vitamin regimen we were at our wits end and finally took him to see a physchiatrist who diagnosed him as being Bi-Polar NOS. He was placed on Risperdal...I hated like heck to give him that stuff, I felt like a failure. Funny thing happened though, when they placed him on the meds the Dr ordered blood work and we were shocked to discover he was Hypothyroid. We immediately started weaning him off the Risperdal and started him on Synthroid and the results were amazing. He is a different person! He will always be demanding and quite bossy, but we can enjoy him now and he has started to make friends.

My point is that you need to be diligent in finding out the cause of your son's behavior. If a Dr tells you something you don't agree with, get another opinion. All behavior problems stem from another issue and if they cannot tell you with 100% accuracy that your son is ADHD then do not put him on medication. You need to find a good therapist that your child can trust. It takes a good six months before a child will truly open up and at times it seems like a waste of time and money, but in the end it is all worth it.

As for the lunch mom...they all label kids and once labeled it is hard to change their minds. I would talk to the principal and ask that he talk to all of them and let them know that gossiping about the children is unacceptable.

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#3 Gone To Race In A Better Place...

People talking about The Strong Willed Child are 100% right. Also Momofdrew is 100% right. You got a good report from teacher and lunch lady is saying this? Talk to the teacher see what is going on. If he is behaving in class and not lunch well that is where kids let their hair down. My son can keep it together till he gets off the bus and turns into my monster, but at school Angel.

Another good point KARATE I 100% believe in this. This is what has helped my son. They learn how to control themselves. My kids are there every night of the week unless we have other sports going on. This also gives them a sense of accomplishment. They earn belts and this is done all by themselves so if they succeed it is because of them if they fail it is also because of them. Maybe find a school and usually they will give you a free week of karate or even a free month so you have nothing to lose.

PS Karate is expensive I pay $3000 a year for 3 children. I sell on ebay all year to pay, my husband is very cheap and says it is worth everypenny.

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cmemaloy@yahoo.com


I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not.

Life! is a coin. You can spend it anyway you wish, but you can only spend it once.

As Momofdrew mentioned, it is likely, as well as inappropriate, that the lunch lady was being a gossip, which is a huge confidentiality issue, and an issue of professionalism.

But bear in mind that a lunch lady (as well as many other staff members in the school) probably has had no workshops or inservices on these matters. Now we can see why they often need it more than the rest of the staff - they can be really out of touch with issues such as confidentiality if they're left out of these meetings. Maybe, after you speak with administration about her (if you choose to), they might decide to include all staff in this type of training. Your son's issue would probably improve, and so would the issues of many other children in the school! (I assume that the lunch lady has perpetuated the situation, which probably has improved, but she's not yet on board with that).

Please don't consider retention (holding back) without researching the topic, yourself. It could backfire and hurt his self-image, especially if he perceived it as a punishment. There is nothing wrong with retention of a child if it is for the right reasons, but I'd want to do it as a last resort, and only after meeting with all teachers/school psychologist first, to make sure it was an informed decision by a team of teachers/parents.

I agree on retention and after re-reading post #1, I edited my post #9 in regards to retention. We retained my son but then moved to another town. He has no memory of it. It all has been for the best but this story sounds different then ours...

I saw the title of the thread... "parents warn other parents about" and I don't perceive this at all about the story told in #1.

It's hard... Parenting. But, wow, Nelly, you are on top of things! He'll develop into a terrific young man w/ such caring and devotion at home.

we had anger outbursts with our now 7year old for about 1.5 years. We tried everything as well. Luckily for us, he was good at school and it was just a home issue. We tried the "earning" things on a chart and it worked! I thought, naw, it's too easy but it was amazing! We sat down with both our kids and devised a chart of what they needed to do every day (clean room, brush teeth, do homework, etc) and they earned a star for each one. They earned a "bonus" star at the end of the day if I thought they really behaved (even if they didn't get all their stuff done). The kids decided how many stars each priviledge would cost: dvd, gameboy, computer, bounce (a special playplace). it was just amazing how the positive reimforcement helped. Our sone REALLY reactus adversely to negative reinforcement

I would not go the drug route. Too many kids on drugs now (both legal and illegal). Have a rather sensitive question here: did (or does) your son get negative comments made about his size made to him by a close friend or family memeber? I know a kid in my son's class (who is the smallest in 2nd grade) is a PILL and out of control. I talked to his mom last year and she said her ex used to cut him down by making fun of his size so he was acting out in such ways because he had to compensate for his size in some way.

Good luck....I'm pulling for you!

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Atleast your not the mother everyone talks about, that would be worse! I would try the diet change. I have a friend who took a boy off certain foods and he is a different child. She buys him organic foods, this is $$ but you do anything to help your kids.

Remember to reward and tell your child when they do something good, we always talk about bad things but forget to praise our children.

The lunch lady has no right telling other people about your son or anyother kid.

Hang in there. My son was never the bully type but it was hard raising him. He is 22 now and I could not be prouder of him. The first THREE YEARS of his life he didn't sleep through the night. He woke up 2-4 times a night and I was trying to work fulltime and going through a divorce. I am still trying to make up for lost sleep! lol He was ALWAYS energetic and full of life and flitting from one thing to another. He was diagnosed with ADHD in 2nd grade. We have taken him to many counselors over the years, tried Ritalin, Dexadrine and even Paxil in high school-that's a nasty one, don't go on that one!. None of them helped very much. We fought almost everyday . He wanted everything NOW. In 9th grade he tested at the 1st grade auditory attention level! He barely passed high school, not because he isn't intelligent. He got good grades in the few classes, like biology, that had only in class work. I remember one time he said to me when he showed me his D- in one class-"do you know how hard it was for me to get my grade UP THIS HIGH?!!!" lol But since he's been out of high school he has worked steady and is much happier. He's just not made for the school setting. I want you to know that he has never been in trouble with the law or even had a speeding ticket!!! He's a great young man. He still gets very moody and you just have to ignore his outbursts and be glad with the happy times. I can't tell you how frustrated I was for YEARS and YEARS. One counselor told me that some kids will gamble 99 times out of 100 in the hopes that this time they can get away with something! You just have to hang in there, do the best you can and love him unconditionally. That's hard sometimes. Some people are just wired differently. They are a challenge. And the world is so stimulating that doesn't help. Good luck and keep loving and supporting him. I have no idea what I did right but somehow he turned our great!!! Whew!!!

can someone tell me more about the diet??
Thanks

Fran
Twaron99@yahoo.com

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I have OCCD
Obsessive-Compulsive Coupon Disorder!!!

Check out http://www,conductdisorders.com. My daughter has ADD and I lurk at that site all the time. The members there give a lot of good, practical advice and are extremely supportive. There is also a lot of good reference information, too.

www.feingold.org
"Why can't my child behave" by Jane Hershey
email me for any questions.....I have been there and back
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I noticed you take things away (but of course he'll eventually get them all back, right?). Why not try this -- when he misbehaves make him do something he totally hates doing. Make him clean the toilet, scrub the floor with a toothbrush (works in the military!), clean his siblings rooms -- anything that he hates to do, make him do it as his punishment.

BTW, this idea was given to me by my son who is now 23!! He said it will work! (He remembers us taking away things but it never bothered him that they were taken away).

Maybe for some children this would work, but not for mine. We've tried it and the effort was not worth it. The result was hours of crying and whining and not doing the work, which resulted in more punishment and made my DS very, very angry and made him feel terrible to the point where I thought it was harmful to him to keep forcing the issue. It was also agony for me & DH trying to get him to do the assigned task. It's very difficult to force a child to do something they really don't want to do, especially if they are strong willed, like my DS. In the end, it didn't change the behavior.

We tried taking things away from DS and not giving them back -- throwing them in the trash or donating them with his knowledge that I was doing so -- or making him earn them back, but even that didn't work as well as rewarding him for good behavior. He will do anything for a reward, even something small like a matchbox car or stickers. It is so simple and works so well for us.

Sarah........mom to Jason & Devin

Of course he'll do anything for a reward. IMO, you shouldn't reward a child just to behave. I know it's harder to discipline, but in the long run, it will help him. When he gets older, what will you do? The rewards will have to get bigger and bigger, won't they? If he's 'trained' with this sort of 'discipline', then he'll expect more. Sounds like he's got you right where he wants you.