I think this law is going to far. You slap a child's hand and you're going to jail ? How about making them go to Parenting Classes, wouldn't that be better for all ?

What do you think ?

California parents could face jail and a fine for spanking their young children under legislation a state
lawmaker has promised to introduce next week.

Lieber said her proposal would make spanking, hitting, and slapping a child under 4 years old a misdemeanor. Adults could face, up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

(the whole bill isn't drafted yet )

Some Republican lawmakers called the idea ridiculous. But Gov.Arnold Schwarzenegger said he may be receptive to it even though he has concerns about how the ban would be enforced.

I am for any law that protects children from learning violent behavior.I feel parenting classes should be made mandatory for ALL expecting parents.

Reasonable people know the difference between spanking and abuse. Common sense here, people. I realize spanking is not for everyone, but some children do not respond to other discipline methods in certain situations, IMHO. I fully support a parent's right to spank, as long as it is not an out of control beating.

Well I don't live in Cali. but you know some people honestly take the slapping and spanking too far. I believe in spanking but it depends on the circumstance. If a small child is about to run out into the street and they have been told not to do that and then they continue to do it then yes by all means correct the child by spanking within reason. My daughter ran to the street one time and one time only when she was little when I got her I smacked her butt and told her that was bad and why it was bad and she was NEVER to do that again. She never did it again. I felt it was necessary for her protection so she would be safe. I don't like to spank but certain situations I believe it is necessary.

A bad example of spanking: I know a little boy that got into his mom's bra and underwear one time and put them on, he was maybe 4 or 5 yrs old. His mother caught him and got a ping pong paddle and broke it over his butt and left bruises on the child. I seen the bruises so I know what I am talking about and the mother told me she did it because she didn't want him to grow up to be a queer!! Excuse the language but those were her exact words. I was irate with her.

Another example of bad spanking: We were driving down the road this summer only to see a grown man get out of his vehicle open the back door and started throwing his fist as in PUNCHING a child that was in their car seat. My DH and I were floored, I got scared because my husband pulled off the road and got behind them, I knew he was upset! We followed the people and got the license plate number and we reported them to the police. The sad thing is there were 3 or 4 other adults in that vehicle that sat and watched and never done a thing to help that little child. We thought it was two adults fighting at first but then realized it was a child. It was awful.

There are situations where the adults need to go to jail but when a parent is correcting their child for their safety then I think that is a whole different story.

I totally agree with you. There is nothing wrong with a smack on the bottom. I don't agree with 'slapping' or beating. Sometimes there are causes where discipline is necessary. I don't think the government should be putting their noses in our homes and how we discipline our children. Look at the little brats and screaming kids running all around and parents throwing up their hands not knowing what to do!! There are some children that don't respond to 'time-outs' and reasoning.

Plus there are a lot of people who believe the Bible and what it says about disciplining their children. If the government steps in and tells people they can't spank their children, wouldn't that infringe on their religious beliefs????

I can remember 'back in the day' when I was growing up, if you misbehaved at school, you sometimes got spanked at school and then when you got home, you'd get it again!!!

I remember back in the day too. I remember all my friends always getting spankings.I remember my mom taking me into the garage and telling me to scream while she hit my bike with the belt,faking giving me a whoopin lol, just so she'd fit in with the "spanking" neighbors.It seemed to me that the kids who got spanked were meaner than the ones who never got spanked and the ones who didn't get spanked were much more peaceful.I think they are always alternatives to violence.I feel a 4 year old running into the street should not be spanked as the opportunity for him to run into the street should have never been made possible.

I think that punishment should be left up the parents of the misbehaving child. Yes punishment can be taken to far but who am I to tell YOU how to control your child. I spanked my child I did not use Time out but he is not violent and I did not abuse him. I frankly would rather see a child get taken to the restroom and corrected than see a temper tantrum form a 7 year child cause he/she couldn't get what they wanted.

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I can count the number of times I have ever layed a hand on my kids and if you can't then you spank too much. It's just like yelling, if you yell all of the time it loses it's effectiveness.

I have only done it on the bottom and to scare the living daylights out of them, like if they did something VERY dangerous and I needed them NOT to forget that they can't do it again.

And I believe there is a difference between parents that spank and parents who beat. A spanking is NOT going to leave a bruise and if it does then that was a beating and you should go to jail for it.



All IMO of course.

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"A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer

I do NOT approve of the government stepping in to tell me how I can or cannot discipline my child. My DD is only 6 months old, so we haven't had to deal with this personally, but I don't have any problem with parents who spank. I think that most parents that spank or swat their kids do it to get their attention, not to hurt them. There is a difference between spanking and beating. Beating is wrong and parents that beat their children should go to jail. There are already laws in place to protect children from abuse. Why don't they do something worthwhile and work on enforcing those laws instead?

What I want to know is, if this legislation gets passed, what happens to the child when the parents are arrested and sent to jail for simply smacking their hand or bottom when they are acting up in the grocery store? How much damage is it going to do to the child to be taken away from their parents and possibly placed in foster care? Are there enough good, decent foster parents available to handle and take care of all the children that will be ripped away from their parents?

I was a first born, and as typical first borns, I tried EVERYTHING. I pushed the limits and was a little hellion at times. I got spanked from time to time. NEVER with an item - belt, hairbrush, switch, paddle, etc. I don't like violence, I don't condone violence, it did not teach me violence, I am not violent. I can't even as much as watch the sport of boxing and fake boxing in the Rocky movies? Forget it. Makes me sick.

With spanking just as everything else, there are extremes with a huge gray area in the middle. I do think children can be spanked or swatted from time to time without it being an issue. I do not believe in using "objects" to spank. I don't believe hitting the face unless something is VERY extreme. So extreme, I can't think of any examples right now.

"Spanking" and "beating" are very two different situations.

~ Ambrie ~

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Spanking is wrong- If you hit your spouse because dinner wasn't ready, you go to jail- so why can you hit a defenseless child and call it discipline? Violence is Violence

Of course I learned this lesson when my DS was 2 and throwing a massive temper tantrum- I gave him a smack on the butt to get his attention I was at my witts end and couldn't control him and he hit me back- right there I learned he was watching me and learning from me- I hit him because I couldn't get to to do what I wanted him to do- well I wasn't doing what he wanted either so he hit me. Was I to hit him for hitting me??? I had the lesson that day and I have never lifted a hand nor been tempted to since. So far for my children it has worked- I never spanked them and they themselves (ages 15 and 9) have never hit anyone else.

Children who are street runners or otherwise attracted to dangerous situations- I think I would give a pass on the butt smack- perhaps an exception when there is no allowance for a child not understanding immediately- if you do this it hurts. This to me isn't discipline but teaching.

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All you can do is All you can do-- But All you can do is enough!!!

I do not think that anyone should hit a child and I do count spanking as hitting.
That is the way that I see it.

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I agree with you! No matter how I look at it - I can't see spanking as a form of teaching.


This is my own opinion, and I'm not judging anyone who thinks differently. But I can't imagine that there are any parents who would sign their children up for a day care that states that they utilize spanking - even in emergency situations. If we wouldn't allow a daycare provider to do this to our children, then how can we rationalize it, ourselves?

I'm also very aware that the vast majority of spankings are issued in the heat of the moment, when the parent is very emotional. I think that is a dangerout time to administer a spanking, because it's very likely that the parent is letting off their anger through the spanking. EVERY parent I remember watching as they spanked their child seemed absolutely frantic, themselves. Again, this is only my experience/opinion. I know we're all just trying to do our best as parents.

I think it makes no sence at all! For one it has age limit under 4..I tend to believe when a child starts walking he or she is starting to learn from right or wrong..The only thing I agree with is No slapping or hitting a child ....that to me is a form of child abuse!! Spanking lightly on a childs butt when a child doesn't listen to you ..to me I believe it is ok. By putting age limit on when you can spank is absurd! It's the same type of punishment regardless of the age

My kids went to 2 different school that you had to sign a paper if you didn't want spanking as a punishment--If you choose no spanking then your child would be suspend instead of spanking..I looked at them and said You ain't laying a hand on my child --if there needs to be any spanking done I will be doing it not you!

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Angels may not come when you call them, but they'll always be there when you need them.

I have never spanked my three girls (all teens now). Add to that I have never hit, slap, pinched, etc..... There is too fine of a line between spanking and hitting and NO way to define it.

But, on the other hand, I do NOT look down on parents that "spank" their children. Ones who do more than that should have their children taken away permanently (but that's another discussion). I've seen some kids out in grocery stores that need to be spanked. LOL! It just wasn't an option for my hubby and our girls. We stated it before we had them and stuck to it.

BTW, they are very well behaved teens and were just as great when they were younger. I'm serious when I say strangers would talk to us in restaurants and other public places and comment on how well they acted.

We live (and I work) in a a school system that still spanks the children. I see kids getting spanked every day here at work. I think if it is done in a controlled environment it can be effective.

No offense but I don't understand why a parent would have to fake spanking their child just to fit in with the rest of the parents? and telling you to scream? It was none of those other parents business if she chose not to spank you and if they said anything to her about it then they were in the wrong. KWIM?

You said that kids who didn't get spanked were much more peaceful and the ones that did get spanked were meaner, but I find just the opposite now days, I see parents in the stores having unruly children and all they do is say "Now Bobby, don't do that sweetie" and the kid is bouncing off the walls disrespecting his mother and just being a holy terror and disruptive throughout the store. I have seen parents who give the Time Out and their kids act worse then others (not always though)

A child running into the street at whatever age can happen in a split second and I think everyone at some point in their days of parenthood have at least experienced one moment or more where things should not have been made possible, but it happens, that is why when the situation arises and you can stop it you should do what you feel is in the child's best interest to make sure it doesn't happen again.

A parents responsible for telling the child not to be running out to the street and if the child doesn't mind it needs to be corrected one way or another.

We already have laws on the books to deal with child abuse. Spanking is not child abuse and this proposed law is outrageous. The Gov't needs to deal with real issues and this is not one of them.

I rarely spank but I have and I also have slapped my son on his hand for turning on the stove. I've read several books that say if you are going to spank that it is better to use an object like a wooden spoon rather than your hand less association or something. I have no idea what is right or not. For me, spanking is usually for extreme situations.

[quote=happy2behere]No offense but I don't understand why a parent would have to fake spanking their child just to fit in with the rest of the parents? and telling you to scream? It was none of those other parents business if she chose not to spank you and if they said anything to her about it then they were in the wrong. KWIM?[quote

Thats true but my parents are very social people, sort of people pleasers, who love to be around people and feel comfortable.You'd have to understand I guess.I did. And I rather fake getting spanked than be spanked!

[quote=dollydeal]
I get that and I understand it but it shouldn't have to be that way.

And yeah I would rather have faked it too then actually getting one. lol who wouldn't?

Good point!

Different children respond to different methods of disciplining and teaching. We have two children. One responds to the occasional spank on the bottom. The other one, it just escalates the behavior. I can count the number of times I have swatted/spanked my children on one hand.

No two children are a like. Thus, you can not set hard and fast rules as to what will work and what won't.

I despise the parents that threaten and threaten and threaten but never do anything. I detest the parents that insist "oh little JOhnny's just expressing himself" Yeah, he's expressing himself all over your walls w/ a sharpie permanent marker!

Sometimes, children cannot be reasoned with, conjoled, or bribed into better behavior. At that time, the parent must step up and do what is a parent's responsibility: Teach the child that there are consequences for each action. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I don't have children, but I was spanked as a child by both of my parents and paddled in school. I definitely believe children should be disciplined, but not by spanking of any kind. I also agree with the person that mentioned parenting classes should be mandatory.
Debby

Well this is the polar opposite of spanking- no discipline at all.

I know it took me awhile to figure out my kids temperments and what disciplines got the results. Timeouts did nothing for my son as he just looked at it at quiet time and didn't phase him taking away privileges worked wonders and my daughter was the exact opposite she couldn't stand sitting still.

The biggest thing is don't threaten to do something unless you are willing to carry it out. DH and I used to argue because he would dole out for example a no TV for 3 days and then go to work and I was left to carry this out- No TV was torture for mom. My kids didn't watch much TV but it was time for me to get some work done around the house. He finally got it- No (fill in favorite show) for 3 days works better and I could live with it.

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All you can do is All you can do-- But All you can do is enough!!!

I dont really believe in spanking but know sometimes you have no other choice. MY opinion is when kids are being bad they need attention I would rather give them posititve attention. Also I believe its violence & it will teach kids violence JMO & I was also spanked as a child. Back then everyone whipped thier kids even the principal at my first elemetary school was known for giving whippins ya know its just the way things were back in those days. Now today we all know anybody who did this to thier own children or someone elses would be in jail no questions. Guess we are all ok but I still dont think its right JMO!!

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mom of 3 greats girls

hey-I got a smack on the buttocks now and then and I turned out ok..!!!

There is a big difference between abusing a child and spanking a child. I see nothing wrong with a little swat on the behind, but i see a big problem with a child being hit so hard that it causes bruises ect. I have swatted my 2 children when they have spoke to me in a fresh way, but that is after i have always tried other methods. I am not fond of the spanking way, but i do understand that sometimes it is the only thing that works for some children. I know there is a lot of differences in opinions on this topic, but i strongly feel that how we all discipline our children is a personal one. What works for one may not work for other families.

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SAHM of Bailey 12, Tyler 10 , Emily Ann 6, and Ryan Matthew 4 yrs old.

I got spanked and I spanked my kids. They are too old for it now ( 5 & 7) but if was effective when needed. To me, there is nothing wrong with spanking a child. It is not abuse and is not destructive. Hitting and slapping are totally different topics. They are not the same. I DO NOT want the government stepping in to tell me how I must raise my child. Each parent has their own strategy. If it's not abuse (and there are already laws about that), but out big brother!

I guess also look at it this way: if the government told you that you MUST spank your kids....would you? I don't want the government stepping in to monitor my parenting when they can't even monitor and control government funded programs correctly. What works for me, works for me. It doesn't have to work for anyone else. I would never tell someone to parent like I do...even if I disagree with them. I just expect the same respect from those who disagree with me

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Why is it called spanking instead of hitting? Isn't that what it is, afterall? The defination of hitting is to "strike a blow." No specification of where the blow is struck.

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Raising my baby RIGHT!!!!!!

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To me there is a big difference between disicpline and abuse. When I was younger I got a swat on the bottom. I remember my dad telling my friends parents that if I misbehaved/bad mouthed them that they should swat me also. I turned out ok and I'm not a violent person. I think the goverment should but out and let people raise their kids their own way. No I don't have any kids, but the DH and I discussed our views on punishment and we agreed. I also know that if my dad were still alive today and he saw me bad mouth someone he wouldn't hesitate to tell me about it or give me smack. I also remember my dad saying that when he was in school (Catholic) that if you got in trouble you also got it at home. JMHO

I was spanked probably five times in my life and I still remember it! What I remember most is that I deserved it! I have three sons ages 16 to 8 and all three have been spanked at some point. But you know what they are well behaved, respectful kids who I have been able to take anywhere even as toddlers.

What I fear with this whole notion of the government stepping in before the age of four is that most boundaries are formed between the ages of 2 and 4. A child running across the street at 3 can be given a effective swat on the behind and most likely will not do it again. You cannot reason with a two year old, who is throwing a tantrum. I have seen kids who are never spanked act like abusive hellions with their parents but I have seen kids who are spanked way too often act the same way. The solution lies somewhere in the middle and it is my job as a parent to find what works best for each of my kids...and when the day comes that I will not have to answer for anything my child who is now a teen does and the government will raise him then I for will spank as I see fit.

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#3 Gone To Race In A Better Place...

Uh, I beg to differ


J/K!!!

This topic always comes up on coupon boards. I say if it's done between consenting adults, then what's the harm? lol

I will agree that it is ok to spank, IF you tell me that it is ok for the cop who pulls you over for speeding can give you one rabbit punch in the nose, or the person who you were rude to in the grocery line can stomp on your foot, or the priest who hears your confession can pop you one on your butt. Otherwise, NO!!

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Lyn Clarke

I don't think you can break it down like that. All hitting is not spanking, and all spanking is not hitting. Here is the definition of spanking:

To slap on the buttocks with a flat object or with the open hand, as for punishment.

There are several key differences in hitting and spanking. IMHO, it boils down to intent and purpose. If two adult men are leaving a bar and get in a row over a woman, and one slugs the other in the mouth, that is hitting. It's an attempt to injure another individual in an attempt at retribution for a perceived wrong against the hitter or someone with whom the hitter has aligned themselves. One of them does not have any responsibility to oversee the other person, does not hold the role of "instructor" over the other adult, and is simply acting out of anger.

When a parent / child relationship exists, the parent has full responsibility to train the child regarding appropriate and inappropriate, as well as safe/unsafe behavior. If a child chooses to spank as part of the family's discipline plan, and a child willfully disobeys that family's rules, what you have isn't at all an attempt at retrubution born of anger. What you have is a child being given a negative consequence that is intended to keep him from choosing to participate in behavior that is not acceptable within the context of his family or society.

The parent has the responsibility to teach the child, and this may simply be one of many negative consequences a parent may choose to impose. From time-outs to spankings to groundings to extra chores, EACH of those things are unpleasant things a parent imposes on a child. Some of these options creates emotional pain, and spanking creates physical pain. Neither are "pains" that are long-lasting, nor do they cause real damage. Both are frustrating and make kids sad... but isn't that the point?

My mom always felt that long groundings were much worse than a spanking, which always did the trick with us. She contended that we could have three swats, cry about it, and then move on... or she could torture us all for a week by making us all stir crazy by grounding us. Spanking always did the trick with my brother and I. If I'd been spanked for something, I never did it again, as I hated to be spanked... and I know I avoided doing things I had been told not to do in order to avoid getting one. A grounding would've been MUCH more painful to all of us in the long run.... but it wouldn't have been any more effective than spanking was for my brother and I. All kids are different, of course.

I believe children understand "intent." If a parent who has a negative relationship with a child goes off half-cocked "hitting" them, regardless of whether the child has done anything wrong, and in an attempt to simply blow off some of his own rage, the child will suffer and is certainly not being "trained." If a parent who has a positive relationship with a child swats them on the rear after the child has disobeyed the parent's direct instructions, the child will know that what he is receiving is *punishment* for his own transgression. Even if he hates being spanked or thinks the rule is stupid or dumb, he'll know that the parent isn't simply raging for no reason at all.

ETA: Per the example above about a policeman pulling you over and giving a punch to the nose... obviously, that wouldn't fly. But a policeman does have the right to hand you a ticket for speeding and "hurt" you in another way. If you were truly speeding, you know exactly why your pocketbook is in pain and while you're not going to be happy, you won't resent him. If, on the other hand, you are pulled over and given a ticket when you did nothing wrong, your respect for law enforcement will drop fifty notches.

I personally do not spank my kids. But I wanna spank the little brats I see on Supernanny Or Nanny911. I think It would do them some good.

i do not spank my kids(3 totally different kids...) ,but we don;t spank them .
my DH was spanked everyday as a child ,he had bloody noses,and bruises.his sibbling were also hit/spanked(whatever you want to call it),they in turn spanked their kids(1 of them is in jail for stabbing a man,1 was a runaway ,she just came back home this week, they all dropped out of school ,1 had a child at 16 ,and the GM who was spanking/hitting her kids,said it was fine for her GD to be pregnant)
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I know this is the extreme.my DH took a conscient decision of not spanking his children .that spanking did nothing for him ,it just put fear in him .he never wanted his children to be scared of him.
our kids are well behaved.we can take them anywhere we want.we talk to them ,we set limit.they never try to break those rule.they do not argue with our rules.(like bedtime at 8 pm for all of them even at 13,except fri and sat 9pm)
as toddlers,we kept a very close eye on them,we still do.
I already said it on another post,we go shopping and we do not open any packages until we actually pay for them.we go look at toys ,but we do not buy.no tantrums are thrown because of it.
Manners have to be taught,respect has to be given to a child,and a child will give you respect.

we do not watch a lot of tv's.video games are not to be played during the week(only on sat,and sunday before 3pm)
Rules,,rules...we also have plenty of funs,burping contest, new words(snart: sneeze and fart at the same times).we have plenty of fun.I just don't want you to think that we are raising little robots....

Hon, that's not "spanking". That's not even "extreme" spanking. That's just plain old 100% ABUSE. Very very different from just a "spanking". When I got spanked, I never had so much as a teeny mark on me.

Sometimes I think that's the problem and a part of the reason why people are so fearful of spanking. What happened to your husband wasn't even in the same area code as what a traditional spanking really is, but some people equate that to a spanking. Well I'd be against that too!

I think of what happened to me as "spankings" - a couple of swats on the hiney (ALWAYS clothed - never on the bare bottom, never with objects) and always as the LAST measure. Not every day, more like a few times a year and I'll be the FIRST to stand up and admit I deserved it! I was a little stinker, hehe. I eventually learned to listen and other punishments were brought in, like groundings, taking away priviledges, etc. I grew up just fine, no violence in my life whatsoever.

I feel bad for your poor hubby as a lil' one and his siblings. It's sad for children to be treated that badly as a form of punishment and EVERY day? Geesh.

~ Ambrie ~

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I know it is different,but what my Dh was afraid is ,a spanking can lead too much more out of frustration...
lately in my area,there is a couple on trial for the death of a 14 mo.the father threw the kid in a room because she/he was getting into the trash.skull fracture....

even my dh is giving excuses for his mother....she was single,we were tough ,bla bla bla...a bunch of hogwash...

if you ever spank your kids ,do not do it to relieve your frustration....
I saw a women spank her child and was saying at the same time: do not hit your brother again.

not spanking ,doesn;t mean no discipline.which ,believe me ,I saw the no discipline in some kids.it is just awful...

it is just a sensitive subject in our family ,that's all..

I've read several posts from people who suggested that spanking is "necessary" in some situations.

Usually, if there is a controversial issue, someone can come up with an example of a time when there was no other real choice. I'm hoping to get such an example.

I'm looking for AT LEAST ONE scenario/example of a time when spanking would truly be the best solution, over any other form of discipline.

As I've stated, I'm very opposed to spanking. However, although I have strong opinions on many subjects, I do like to acknowledge "exceptions to the rule" when they exist. So just one cut and dry example of the necessary time to spank would be informative.

I was spanked and I spanked my children...I know the difference between discipline and abuse as did my parents.

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