Man there were a bunch of people up late here last night. I was watching just the first few minutes of what was on the view this morning and todays hot topic they were discussing was the Partial Birth Abortion ban.
Here is a little about it just in case anyone is not aware of what it involves. This is completely unbiased information.
Intact dilation and extraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rosie was saying how it's a blow to women's rights, but I disagree with her. I don't know how it can be a blow to women's rights if the fetus is of an age where is could survive outside the mother... Any thoughts?

My thoughts are..

My uterus, my business.

End of story.

I couldn't agree more!

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Cici, I totally agree.

I personally would never have an abortion but I believe it is the womans right to choose. Just my personal opinion.

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So, I just have a question for you then, have you read descriptions of what happens, and seen pictures? They are pretty graphic, but tell the story of what you would be doing to a living being. Do you not considered the fetus living, because it's in your uterus? And you feel this is okay to kill it, even though one more minute if it made it outside your uterus, it would be living?

Yes, it's graphic and the pictures are too. We have a bus that drives around my city with pictures of aborted fetuses on the side. I think the purpose of the bus is to intimidate and upset pro-choice advocates, and I hate it- but they have every right to drive it. Back to the original argument, freedom of speech.

It is MY opinion that life begins at birth, so I do not see "killing it" as the way it is.

I feel its alive as soon as its created.I also feel if the mother doesn't want it but feels its safer for her body to deliver it before killing it that she should be able to.

But it affects more than just you and your uterus. It affects the baby that is being killed. What I don't understand is the 'reasoning' that this procedure is done to 'save the mother's life'. If a woman can survive giving birth (partially) and having the baby yanked out of her and then the 'procedure' done to the baby to kill it, then if the mother's life were in danger, well, by then she would be dead or dying after going thru that. This is just an excuse to give an abortion to a woman at late term. I don't buy the argument it's to save a woman's life.

Personally, I am against it. Basically, it sounds like some horrible form of torture, partially deliver the baby and suck it's brains out while it's still alive. And, the majority are NOT done for medical reasons.

"In the vast majority of cases, the procedure is performed on a healthy mother with a healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along." This is a quote from an abortion rights advocate as published in the New York Times.

Why is it the statement made by a poster "Conservatives just want to tell me what to do" is considered okay but when liberals make a statement the conservatives are supposed to just roll over and take it as the truth?? Sounds like liberals trying to tell conservatives what to do and that they are the only ones who are right!! Sounds one-sided to me.

Oh Lord, I need a beer first....hang on , I'll be back on this one in a bit.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

The point is everyone has their own point of view and if you believe in something strongly enough then no one is ever going to change your mind no matter what side of the fence you are on. Is there any point of arguing about it? Not really because everyone has a right to believe what they want and can speak about it.

I don't believe in abortion BUT if my life were in danger because of the pregnancy I would have an abortion and I would do it early in the pregnancy. I wouldn't want to leave my 2 children behind with no mother or my husband for that matter, he wouldn't know what to do without me

If you don't have enough for everyone then don't bring any at all!!










J/K

Don't approve of abortion??? Don't have one!!

I used to be wishy-washy on the abortion debate until I saw the above statement on a bumper sticker. In college I did a report on abortion, and let me tell you, it was not pleasant. I vowed right then and there I would do all I could to make it illegal to have one, blah, blah, blah. Well, then when I saw the statement on the bumper sticker, it came clear to me, if you don't like something, don't do it. But, we all need to have that right to be able to choose wether or not to do it. Maybe what we need instead of people trying to dictate what other people should do with their bodies, is help them, so they are not in the position to begin with.

Any of you hard core anti-abortionistas (is that even a word???), please tell me what you have done to help a woman facing this decision, other than tell her how wrong it is, and how it takes a life, etc. Many of these women KNOW this, and I think they feel they have no other options. So, please, tell me....WHAT HAVE YOU DONE????

The difficult part of the equation is that, YES, it DOES involve another human being, potential human being. But, the core of it is that it must be a choice, a RIGHT, that we keep, to make this decision for ourselves. Would you like someone to tell you you HAD TO keep that wart on your nose??? it's basically the same thing.

I would not have an abortion, by choice, but, would like to know it is an option, if I needed to go that route to save my own life, or what if I was raped???

Ok, I need another beer, I feel round two coming on

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I'm getting it thru an IV drip I need it to kick in fast, and last long!!!

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I am not going to get into this one................Good luck Ladies!!

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Vicki


TLJ Women united in Spirit!

I an totally anti-abortino and our group does things to help women with unplanned pregnancies. We will help with the costs, referrals, etc... Whatever they need with will find the resources for it. We are very non judgmental as are most prolife people. I give lots of donations to Birthright and other prolife agencies.
I believe it's less than 1% of abortions that are from rape and it's another tiny amount that have to do with the mothers life. MOST abortions are for convience-either the wrong timing, financial (don't we have plenty of resources availabe in this country???), etc... I believe very strongly, especially in this country, that if you don't want the chance of being pregnant don't have sex! It's that simple. No birth control method is 100$ effective so there is that risk. And no, I'm not telling people not to have sex. BUT if the person makes the choice to have sex that's the time the choice is made! Don't kill the child!!!
Also, I know those pictures are graphic but they are realistic. It's not a bunch of tissue like proabortion people like to describe it.

Pro aborton people need to check out Silent No More to see how abortion affects women. Abortion is a short term "solution" with life long affects. Or read Forbidden Grief by Dr. Theresa Burke.
At what point is a baby "human"? How can someone grieve a miscarriage at a 6 month pregnancy and call it their baby but also say someone else can selectively kill it?? It can't goes both ways. You either don't have a baby growing inside you or you do. If you DO then it's killing a life. And since when have we legalized the killing of babies?? It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with right and wrong. It's really quite simple.

Some people who accidentally get pregnant,do not want children because they feel this world is not good enough for a child,so they feel they are doing whats right by terminating its life before it begins.

I have a question for all in favor of abortion, who also have children of their own. If you were, let's say 6months pregnant and someone attacked you and you end up miscarrying. Do you grieve the "baby," if the person who attacked you was found, would you want them charged with murder? That happened here where I live, the girl was preg, the bf wanted her to abort, she didn't so he had her attacked when she was 7 months along, he was charged with murder... But then if she choose to end it herself, it wouldn't be? It's a huge double standard... Also, another question, just to get people thinking. If you are for abortion because your opinion is that life doesn't start until birth, when it's your pregnancy, do you call it a "baby", or a "fetus"... Is it a "fetus" to dehumanize it that makes it okay to abort, but when you are ready then it's a "baby?"

You said it -terminating it's life!!!!!!! Life has already begun. It's heart is beating, it has fingerprints, etc... We can't play God like that!!!!

You go girl!!! I have asked that same question many times and never get a solid answer! I guess it's a baby if you want it but a "fetus" if you don't!!! How hypocritical!!

You can't play god,but I can!

I am pro-choice, and if I became unexpectedly pregnant, I would choose life. That is MY preference, my choice. That doesn't mean I have the right to make someone else choose the same as me. I understand when a woman aborts a pregnancy, they are ending a potential life. That is their choice. I am not going to be the moral police for them.

How would you feel if the gov't told you you HAD to have a tatoo, or could NOT cut your hair, or shave your legs??? You would say, "no way, it's my body, I'll cut my hair, shave my legs, and whatever else I want to do!!!" right??? Yes, you know you know would, as would every other person reading this. The decision to terminate a pregnancy is the woman's choice, much like I believe when a person wants to die should be their choice, too.

Honestly, some of the so-called parents in this country should have had abortions. I'd rather that than a few years down the road, they kill their own children, or raise them so hainously that the child later goes on to be a mass murderer or something. But, that is their choice, how to parent, and a discussion for another thread.

I respect every one else's view on this, and am certainly not trying to sway anyone to see it my way. I just would appreciate having respect for other people's opinions, wether you agree with them or not.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

QUOTE FROM ALLINAUGUST : I respect every one else's view on this, and am certainly not trying to sway anyone to see it my way. I just would appreciate having respect for other people's opinions, wether you agree with them or not.[/quote]

Well said!

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Vicki


TLJ Women united in Spirit!

It's not just YOUR body when you are pregnant. There's no comparison to the government telling you that you must get a tatoo or something. Over 45 million abortions in this country since 1973. And we wonder why life is so devalued? Easy come easy go. Very sad.

Where are all the pro-life people a year or three later when the woman they “saved” from an abortion kills herself leaving 5 kids motherless, or the baby they “saved” finally dies from the hidden putrid stove burns on their tiny butts? It happens far too frequently, that a saved mother finally goes over the edge, but by that time her “saviors” have always moved on to a more immediately attention getting cause.

Then they have the unmitigated gall to decry the horrible person who harmed her child – No YOU harmed her child –YOU (collective you) sentenced him to a life no one should have to bear when you shamed the mother into not getting an abortion, even though she knew in her heart, she simply couldn’t survive raising a child at this point. Talk about playing God!

Too many of these kids end up going from foster home to foster home because they are so emotionally damaged no one wants them around their precious perfect kids. A large percentage will end up getting into trouble and then society will scream lock them up and throw away the key. Do you really think these kids would thank you for giving them life?

Charlie Manson once said he should have been an abortion. Can you seriously argue with that???

As much as we might all like it to be - it simply isn’t a black and white issue, neither side is completely right or wrong, there are a million shades of grey here.

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It wasn't too late here in the West.

Better pass whatever you are having this way!

Darlene

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Sell crazy some place else, we are all stocked up here.

Ok. Here is what I think.

This is solely my opinion and not meant to devalue anyone elses opinion.

I could not have an abortion. I just dont have it in me. While it may not be my choice, I wouldnt take the choice away from other women. I have women very close to me that have chosen abortion and do not judge them or the choice they made.

I do think that partial birth abortions should be banned. I think abortions should be done up to the 20th week of gestation and then after that the option of having an abortion should be gone. I feel that the rules should change once the fetus can survive outside the mother.


Darlene

PS. It is nice to be able to have a conversation, which is bound to have huge differences in opinions, and not have it turn into a knock down drag out fight. (at least I hope it hasnt since I started writing this post) LOL

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Sell crazy some place else, we are all stocked up here.

oy,a debate....
I had several miscarriages,and I didn;t grieve like I grieved my father's passing.it was not the same.I didn't considered(even at 19 weeks to be a baby).what irks me is ,the fact that woman are all bent out of shape by having a periods at 8 weeks of pregnancy.because someone is pounding their head,that it was a baby.and they fall into deep depressions.....
I am pro abortions,late term or not.I do not care.it is that woman's choice,not mine .

you can offer women money and care while they are pregnant ,if you do not approve of abortions.but after ,when the kid is 3,5 or 10 and needs to be in daycare,after school care ,and there is no money for it,will you be paying for it..I found it ridiculous that there is so much emphasis on the abortion,when the education in this country is down the toilet,the lack of ressources for children in the public school system.the outrage prices for preschool and healthcare.
and now ,if you want to send your kids to college,ouch ,you better get a second and third mortgage.
how many children have you adopted,how many unwanted children have you raised?

I do not see anyone coming up with solutions.
birth control price is outrages.$40 for a month for pills?but on the other hand viagra is covered by most insurance.....

funny (or maybe not) ,I was going to planned parenthood to get my birth control pills for $5 a pack(back in 94),and there were a lot of people standing with pickets on the side walk.I had my 4 months old baby with me,and they were shouting at me ,and even one spitted on me.It was sad,and I didn't go back over there for birth control ,but would have gone there if I needed an abortion....

Did someone say Beer??? ::::looking around::::::

Welllllllll, there are many, many agencies that help with aid. So I don't thik it's fair to use the excuse that people should have abortions because the prolifers aren't there to help them when their kids are 3 or 5 or 10. That's kind of a silly suggestion that because someone is pro life they should be paying to raise other peoples children. Although we do that with our taxes!!!
It's the whole devaluing of life that is sad. Once you go down that road less and less is sacred and seems status quo after awhile. Many, many women suffer from post abortion trauma. Are you pro abortion people helping them like you expect us to help children as they grow up? Please check out those websites I mentioned earlier. We are having a Silent No More event next Monday and we have invited the directors and staff of the two local abortion clincis. I hope they come but I'm preety sure they don't want to hear about it. We are having the national director here to speak. If they really care about womens health then they need to address all the postabortive women too. (And men, men also suffer.) It's actually a serious health problem-lots of depression and mental health issues. How can there not be when you kill your own child??? ANd that is what abortion is. It's not black or white. When you enter the clinic there is a baby growing inside when you leave there isn't. Not too black and white to me. I love the bumper sticker- IF IT'S NOT A BABY THEN YOU AREN'T PREGNANT!!!!

I don't know why it's "either it goes to a crappy house or get's aborted..." What if the baby's that weren't aborted were given to loving parents who would adopt them and raise them. Why is it being toted as an either/or debate. My problem with Planned Parenthood is that they really don't give people options, it's "if you don't want the baby, abort." Not "Here are your options..."

I really think it is very touching to have such support.Such positive support could possibly help a lot of people,but not all people and all cases.

Beers all gone, needed to move on to the "hard" stuff

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

"hard" stuff??

so you answer my question...taxes are supposed to help those children when they are 3,5,10.
why is it silly to ask a prolifer to help support those children who wouldn't have been born?
you are pushing a woman to have that child ,but after wards,basta..she is on her own and if it was for financial reason she wanted to have an abortion,you give her a list of places where she can get help.have you been to one those places ?have you stayed in line for 4 hrs to be told that your income was too high by $12 a month.
have you been to a"free" medical clinic,where you have spend the whole day ,just that your child would get a prescription for an ear infection. and you lose your damn job that paid minimum wage,cause you didn't show up at work?
but heck,it was free,here's your financial aid for you....


I didn;t get an abortion,I never planned on getting one,I am trying right nowto get pregnant(for the past 13 months).i already have 3 great kids.
do i get bitter because some women are having abortions,because I can get pregnant .no.
their abortions is their business,not mine.

ok,who got the bar open?i'd like an apple martini(don't like beer!!!)


well gee, have you been to a public school lately? in a poor area?
because taxes are supposed to help those children....
wow,fantastic,I am so proud of contributing to that cause,oh no wait ,my taxes money is going somewhere else,like a f**** war...
tomorrow ,there will be a funeral in my town for a soldier who died april 8th in Irak.pray for his family!!!!!!

did i help someone who had an abortion ?
yes I did....

Way too simplistic! We are on earth to help each other and that includes the unborn.

It affects more than just the mother and the baby. What about the father of the baby in all this? Takes two to tango. What about his decision? And what about consequences of actions? Why can't people take responsibility for their actions? (i.e., sex = baby). Why should the baby have to die because mom and dad weren't being responsible and decided to have sex or have sex without protection?

Okay, I was trying to stay out of this because normally when I have an opinion about something it always seems to get my head bit off, but I have a question that I'm dying to ask the pro-lifers. Why do you just assume that when a woman says she's pro-choice, it automatically means she's pro-abortion? I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion. For a lot of us there's a difference. I could never personally have an abortion, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did. My choice. I have had a couple of friends many years ago that were thinking about getting an abortion, and I tried to talk them out of it. But it was and should have been their choice either way. Just because I don't personally believe in abortion for me, it doesn't give me the right to choose for others. Every woman should be allowed to choose for herself, and not have the choice made for her.

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Don't dream it. Be it.

I'm reasonably pro-abortion, which may well make me a bad person, but I don't want to use euphemisms. Still, this is not a cause I feel is worth fighting. I do feel that abortion needs to remain legal, but I also feel that if I want to end a pregnancy, I need to take action ASAP. I'm not sure that it's worth fighting for ALL forms of abortion to remain legal, and upsetting pro-life people so much that they push back for a total ban. Does that make sense?

I'm sorry but I had to say I do not agree with abortions!! I think that it's cruel when so many people in the world want children and can't have them for soo many people to have their choice to kill a baby and yes i believe it is a baby.
Before my husband went to Iraq he left me a present and I had a choice, I was actually thinking about abortion simply because my husband had a shot for malaria (I think that is the one) and they were told not to have sex for 48 hrs after they had gotten the shot because it could do a lot of damage if pregnancy arose. Well I was pregnant and scared, I read alot of stuff and that scared me even more, I had an appt. to have an abortion and just couldnt do it even if it was risking my life to bring a baby into this world.I actually woke up on the day of my appt. holding onto my belly for dear life and thats when I realized that I really couldnt do it, I had cancelled my first appt. because I was so scared and against it. I look at my baby everyday and he couldnt be any more perfect and I think to myself that I could have killed him.
I had my first daughter 22 days after I turned 18 and I know how difficult it is to be a young parent and I know that some people cannot deal with the stress of a baby but thats why theres adoption.
And as far as people saying about a man being charged with murder for killing his girlfriends baby, and if she wanted to do it, it wouldnt be killing it. Thats not right. If the girl wants the baby and is excited to be pregnant then why should he (even being the father) or anyone for that matter be able to take that away from her.

Easy to answer! If you are pro-choice you are pro-abortion. You agree that people have a right to choose to kill their unborn child. You can't be for and against something. Wait, that's John Kerry! JUST KIDDING-no comments pleeeezzzzzz. How would it sound if I said I am against child abuse but I can't tell someone else how to parent their children? Or how about I personally wouldn't use heroin but I can't tell someone else not to use it.
And no thanks for the open bar! Don't drink, never have, never will! lol

Thank you, thank you, thank you to the people who are standing up for life. I was feeling pretty alone and I know there are pro-lifers out there!!!!!
To an earlier poster: There are no easy answers in life. I can't personally be repsonsible for the financial concerns of anyone who has a child out of wedlock as that child grows. Yes, I have gone to a free clinic with a friend and waited in line before. My best friends daughter has two children out of wedlock and I help her as much as I can. And I know it's a struggle. I watch them struggle. And about schools-I have problems with them too. My 16 yr old has gone through a supposedly good Iowa school system and has never been taught long division!!! Luckily he's extremely bright so it didn't hurt him. However, I see the schools spend their money on what I consider nonessentials while not teaching the basics well enough. I sympathize with everyone who struggles. But having to struggle is still not justification to end a life. It's a slippery slope we are on. There is always a long list for adoptions and with open adoptions a person doesn't have to be totally out of the picture. That's a wonderful alternative.
I loved a cartoon that was in a paper a long time ago. I have always remembered it. There was a picture of a cartoon figure yelling at God about why there is so much trouble, why can't He send someone to fix things like cancer, etc... God answered that He did but we aborted them.! Makes you think who we have lost over the years......

Something to think about.......I will be 40 this year. Last year, I was coming out of a very painful realtionship when I found out I was pregnant. My boyfriend was 47. He had a fit , denied it was his, blah blah blah. My daughters are 17 and 19. I was thru raising kids, or so I thought. I was drinking way too much, out of my mind for this guy, we had been together 4 years. Several close friends said "How could you possibly have this baby at your age and in this situation". Said the only thing that made sense was for me to have an abortion. You get the picture. Fast forward 7 and a half months, I gave birth to the most beautiful baby boy in the world. Everyone around him adores him! He is the absolute light of my life! My daughters kiss his little baby feet! He's now almost 7 months old, and I hang on his every move! Had I listened to people, intelligent ones at that, this precious baby wouldn't be here. My life has changed for the better in every possible way! Every day is filled with wonder at this precious child. He was the same baby when he was just a wad of tissue. Just something for everyone to think about. Donna