Just wondering what everyone is thinking about this bill. I've been researching it and I think there are HUGE flaws with it.
For one they can't share information for national security.
"The bill forbids the federal government to use any information included in an application for amnesty in national-security or criminal investigations."
Criminals will be allowed to become American Citizens.
"A criminal would now be eligible for amnesty and citizenship if he had committed only one felony or three misdemeanors except that he could commit any number of immigration-related felonies or mis-demeanors."
They receive a tax amnesty - they only have to pay back 3 of the last 5 years in back taxes...
That's just a few things. I also think it grants amnesty to the people here illegally. However, having said that, if it weren't for illegal immigrants, my husband wouldn't be here. His dad came here illegally, then about 10-15 years became legal.
What do you all think?

The word ILLEGAL is the for front of my mind! there are many ways to get here legally! I have several friends who have come here legally and have become US citizens, they are very offended that illegals should be given amnesty!

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Always be a first rate version of your self instead of a second rate version of someone else.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds.

I have different feelings about the Bill, as I know there are many people with extenuating circumstances. However, someone sent me this email, and I thought I'd share it.


"Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress
is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry
and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working
and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
(my husband will do all of your yard work because
he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).


If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!


I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.


Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.And don't forget to make sure your forms are in MY language - I need to understand them...

Only in America."

Don't get me started on illegal immigration... I'm all for welcoming people to America, but the thing that I cannot stand is the immigrants coming over from Mexico just to get food stamps and welfare. COME ON!!! If you want to work here and live here.. that's fine with me. Just don't take advantage of us. That being said... I'm against this bill. You come here and work.. you need to pay taxes. You do the crime.. you do the time. (and all of that jazz)

If you are against "illegal" immigration then how do you feel about the Jews who "illegally" crossed the border to save their lives in the dead of night? If not for these "illegal immigrants" there would be hardly any Jewish people.

How do you feel about the slaves who escaped their owners? They were "illegal" breaking the law and they had no more legal rights than a dog did.

How do you feel about women in Middle Eastern countries who crawl across the border in the night to escape some horrible controlling monster in a country where women and children are considered property?

All of the above are "illegals". Should we have just let them die in captivity?

You can NEVER make a blanket judgement against any group of people not even child molestors because some "child molestors" are simply young men whose girlfriends were underage.

Some people are who are undocumented are criminals most are not. Most Hispanics I know/have known are hard working people who work up to seven days a week and take side jobs whenever they can. Most of them are religious and family oriented going to the park on Sundays after church for picnics and taking nightly walks as a family around the neighborhood. I very rarely see "white" people doing this.

Most of them keep their homes clean, help their neighbors, friends, and family members when needed.

If I lived in a country where I could not take decent care of my family you are darn right I would do whatever it takes to get somewhere else where things are better.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Thank you, you worded it well! I agree.

BTW - I am an immigrant, a "legal" one that jumped through hoops and got insulted by the office workers that I had to see for "interviews". I heard stuff like "you German girls just hook up with our GIs to get to the US". I did not have it bad in my country like so many illegales do, I could go back anytime and make a nice living. Often they do not have that choice.

I am a legal resident of the US.I did it the right way,I was violated by an immigration doctor,had to wait for hours to get the right paperwork,follow the law.it took me several years to be able to get my green card(we moved from CT to AL,and INS lost my paperwork....)but i did it...
why would illegals,who just cross the border ,from either side claim something that they are not entitled to....
what really pissed me off,is having spanish written all over.you do not see other languages....learn english,learn to follow the laws of the country that is welcoming you.
first ,I would love for the big corporations to stop translating everything,like walmart,home depot,credit card companies,phone companies......you want to be part of this great country?speak the damn language....don't tell me it is because texas,cali were mexican territories...louisiana was french,an dI don't see sortie et entree on the doors of stores....

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By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends

you put it great!
my dd is a teacher in so cal and many of her students have family who have been here for several generations illegally and refuse to learn english! and again I say several generations of not paying taxes or driving with a drivers licence!

__________________
Always be a first rate version of your self instead of a second rate version of someone else.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds.

I totally agree with you. If you want it bad enough do it legally and pay taxes like the rest of us. I`m sick of being a middleclass U.S. citizen and paying for all this. Enough is enough and our language is ENGLISH.

__________________

When you don`t know what to do-Walk fast and look worried.

If you're fleeing from persecution that's one thing. If you just come across the border to collect a check and some groceries and take them back to your family in Mexico.. that's another completely. I'm opposed to people coming over here and taking advantage of our system. I'm sorry, but I coupon most of the time because we need to, and I'm tired of seeing illegal immigrants buying tbone's and lobster with a lone star card... while I have to budget and our big splurge winds up being bomb pops for the kids.

I agree, well said!!

and ~
There is always a long line of them at the store sending western union to Mexico. Many live together in one house and send their money back to Mexico! This hurts our country. They need to pay taxes and spend money here.
We had a large beautiful old church here that was taken over by predominately hispanic members. They had to close it down because they didn't get enough in collectons to keep it open.

I'm also sick of illegal immigrants who take advantage of our system and have healthcare, food, housing and on and on paid for by our govt and us and our taxes and OUR money. It's not right that so many in our country have no healthcare, but someone here illegally can often get free services that WE cannot get and are not entitled to. That is just wrong IMO.

I am ok with legal immigration and people who work to get thru the process the right way, learn the language and pass the citizenship tests, and pay the visa fees and so forth. The people I know who did it legally, it took years and years and some $ but it can be done legally. It does take a long time, I know some people took about 10 years to get here legally from Mexico but it can be done.

I also do not agree that coming here from Mexico is the same as fleeing a Nazi regime or escaping as a slave IMO there is no comparison. There certainly are some countries where people are enslaved and persecuted but Mexico? Not

I agree that there is no comparison to be made between those fleeing the Nazis and illegal immigrants coming over from Mexico. Mexicans do have the opportunity to come here. It may take awhile, and it may take a fair amount of work, but there IS a legal way to get to the US. That was not true in any of those other desparate scenarios mentioned above. Slaves had next to no way to gain their freedom legally. Those fleeing the Nazis were under threat of death and also had no legal way to leave Germany.

Mexicans come here simply because they want to have *better.* That's a noble goal, but the desire for "better" isn't life-threatening. Sometimes, getting to "better" will take time and form-filing and making the effort to get here *legally*.

I have nothing against any Mexicans personally. In fact, the little Mexican kids who bought the bikes at our garage sale last weekend were the cutest kids in town, grinning from ear to ear, and it was neat to watch them be so happy. Their mom bought most every pair of shoes we had out... for a quarter a pair. She said she was sending them back to Guadalajara to her family. I know they are people, and they love their kids and want the same things everyone wants for their families.

That said, I cannot just walk into Trump Towers and demand to be Donald's assistant and expect a high salary. Even those of us who are blessed to be over the citizenship hurdle because we are American by birth can't have access to every opportunity without calculated effort on our own part. For those who were born elsewhere that want "in", they just have one pre-cursor of a hurdle natural-borns don't have.

Come... and come legally.

As an aside, Mexico is an amazing country. They have natural resources out the wazoo. The Yucatan borders the Caribbean and tourism is huge. The mountains... the coffee-growing... the tropical rainforest areas way down south... the cuisine.... there is so much about Mexico's natural resources that make it ripe to have a solid economy. It would be fabulous if someone would reform Mexico from WITHIN so that the desire to flood their neighbor to the north is significantly lessened.

Would you not consider people escaping from Mexico a country mired in corrupt police and governement officials, a country where people still are taken from their homes in the night, a country where people live in garbage dumps, a country where people live in abject poverty, escaping from persecution? If their family had been taken from their home in the night by the authorities would that be okay with you? Who makes the decision when it's "persecution"? Who decides which people are "worthy" and which governments are "persecuting" their citizens?

I only treat others the way I want to be treated.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

Wow. So all ILLEGAL immigrants are Mexicans. I'm so glad to know that.

If I get a refund for what I paid the government to come here legally, half the taxes I've paid, and forgiveness for the one felony I haven't yet committed, but am apparently entitled to, okay, that sounds good.

That's just stupid. Nobody said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeadoo
Wow. So all ILLEGAL immigrants are Mexicans. I'm so glad to know that.

That's just stupid. Nobody said that.

I believe that was meant as sarcasm.

Not at all.

But right now, that just happens to be the demographic that is most taxing to the system. It's pretty obvious why. We only have two bordering neighbors, and Canada isn't in economic or political trouble. Canada's citizens don't have the desire to get to someplace with more opportunity, because their nation does provide it.

That just leaves Mexico.

Any other illegals either had to get here by boat or by plane, and one thing that is common about the demographic that comes and over-utilizes tax-funded services is that they are not financially well-off. If someone somehow managed to get here illegally from an Asian country, they'd have had to buy an expensive plane ticket... so my guess is that they have cash and aren't coming for free medical care and food stamps.

I guess there is Cuba, as well, but Cuban illegal immigrants represent a small fraction of that which is comprised by the demographic from Mexico.

You don't see instructions and signs printed in English and Latvian, do you?

Like I said, I think Mexico is an amazing piece of property, and I really wish it's citizens could fix it's own internal corruption. It's one of my favorite places to visit, but I get why people want to leave because of the lack of opportunity.

I just think going through the proper channels is the way to go.

First off, let me say that coming here under "political asylum" is far different than just crossing the border into the US because you are poor........NEWS FLASH: A lot of Americans are poor too!


That said-- you want to come because you fear Government persecution, fine, DO IT LEGALLY.

You come here Illegally, expect to go back under whatever rock you crawled out of.

Don't even bother giving me the crap excuse of "well who will work as farmers or in the fields?" (lame)...um, let me see... THE FARMERS????? The same people who worked in the fields before all the illegals started pouring in? hmmm... not a far stretch.

I worked on a farm during my summer vacations as a child--it is hard work, but with American families hurting for money, the high rate of foreclosures and lack of employment...let American families work. I would love to find a job where I don't have to pay taxes!

Think about this a minute (we will use this not-so-hypothetical place).... an illegal (not just Mexican---there are many others like Indian, Iranian, Iraqi, Arab, Haitian, Honduran, etc) goes to work in a fruit market in (oh say) Westland, Michigan... the owner of this fruit market pays illegal immigrants (of all nationalities but which Mexican is the predominant nationality) $3.00 an hour to do work--sweep the floors, arrange products for sale, unload veggies and fruit from trucks. These illegal immigrants work 10 to 12 hours a day, and get paid every Friday (I know because I had a job interview there and "got the details" of what my job would entail--except I would also be required to PROVIDE CUSTOMER SERVICE BECAUSE ENGLISH IS MY NATIVE LANGUAGE)... ok.... $3.00 per hour cash under the table x 12 hours a day x 6 days a week ... $216 cash every Friday--no taxes!

Lets say I get a job that pays $7.00 an hour at CVS or Walgreens...I work 31 hours a week (which is part time so they don't have to offer benefits). My weekly pay GROSS is $217, which they would take out a minimum of 9.2825% tax (which is a rough estimate of claiming 4 on your W-4)... this equates to $20.14 from my $217 to equal a weekly check of: $196.86 net income...OR LESS depending on what they take out for: State Tax, City Tax, or any other taxes they take out.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread because it is way too heated...but here I am replying anyway, because no sooner do I leave this thread I hit an article on my homepage (msnbc) regarding "bittersweet homecomings for all these poor people" oh balderdash!

WP: Deportees' bittersweet homecoming - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com

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SPJRNTGADL!

I started this thread, so I'll just add another of my 2 cents. This is especially to Annadrose. I know there is so much corruption in Mexico... And lets really be honest. This bill is really geared towards immigrants coming over to our country illegally from Mexico, we don't have this problem from too many other countries. Now, they really do have quite a few natural resources over there. If we, here in the USA were having the same problem with a govt. as corrupt as Mexico (we are a long way off of that) we would revolt, lives would be lost, but the majority would win. We've done it before when we thought our govt. was bad, and we got our own govt. They should do the same! ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ When their good men are coming here, they aren't going to be able to fix the problems over there.

I believe there is a difference between an "illegal alien" and a "refugee".

I am against giving amnesty to current illegals and I believe the government should take a step further and start penalizing the people that use illegals for labor, whether they be from Mexico, Eastern Europe or Timbuktu!

I believe that a vast majority of the money (cash!) that illegal aliens make goes right back to their home country. Tax free, I might add! All the while they are sucking the government dry. And what are we getting in return??

ITA, that the government should start penalizing people/companies that use illegal aliens. The money would not be going back to their home country untaxed if it were not for under the table payments made by people who pay cash to have their lawns mowed or their houses cleaned or the construction companies who employ them as roofers and painters, to say nothing of the huge corporations like Swift who take advantage of the "cheap" labor provided by these people.

To answer the question "what are we getting in return?", we all need to understand that if and when the labor pool provided by these people dries up we should expect to pay more for any number of products and services which we now get relatively cheaply thanks to the willingness of these people to work hard for little money.

I'm not sure about that. If social services weren't being provided, that might be the case. But they are, and in huge quantities. The idea that working illegally for a pittance is a virtue seems odd to me. The people doing the work don't have much choice once they get here, and the people providing the employment wouldn't give those jobs to a citizen, because they could seek legal help. That's a cycle of abuse.

What social services (with the exception,perhaps, of emergency medical care) are provided to illegal aliens and if they are provided, how do the individuals qualify?

By the way, I agree, it is a cycle of abuse. BTW, I don't believe that "working illegally for a pittance is a virtue". I believe it is wrong on many levels, on the part of those who hire the illegals and on the part of the illegals themselves who have chosen to break our laws rather then, as another poster said, changing their own governments.

The services I see used most here are medical and legal, though other programs, like food assistance once, don't necessarily require proof of legal residency. I don't think I'd notice so much if we didn't tend to leave a scanner tuned to EMS. A big grey area is adults who come here illegally, and have legal children enrolled in schools and programs the parents aren't contributing towards. While the children are entitled, the cost is being covered by other adults.

It's extremely common here for people to talk about what a good thing immigrants are doing by working jobs Americans won't, so that's not all on you. The problem is that between the US making itself easy to exploit, and Mexico being happy to have someone else taking care of its people, the burden falls on taxpayers, not politicians. Most people aren't benefiting by having someone get paid too little to provide a service, but unethical employers are.

While it bothers me that people are choosing to come across illegally, it bothers me more that we have to keep discussing it, and making precious little change. If any other country was sending the number of people here that Mexico is, it'd be considered noteworthy. Either it's some sort of invasion, and action needs to be taken on the country, or it's a country in a state of desperation, and again, action needs to be taken. It's not normal, it's not okay, and really, it's not about the immigrants. It's about one country that's failing to do its duty to its people, and another that's exploiting desperate people at the cost of its own citizens. Laws that affect people who've already broken the law aren't going to fix the problem.

foryoubabyblue,

I noticed that you are from AZ, and I was born & raised there. Only moved to Oregon in '99.

You mentioned an invasion, and, as someone who has seen it first hand, I would have to say that is exactly what is happening.

It got to the point in our neighborhood that we were the only family not from Mexico. Our kids (ages 3 & 5 at the time) were spit on and called, "gringo's" on a daily basis by the Mexican children.

None of the Mexican children who entered kindergarden spoke English. Most of the resources went to those children, leaving the English speaking children pushed to the side as the other children were trying to learn English.

Something needs to be done, and done NOW!

We aren't getting anything in return for illegals working our jobs...nothing.

As for your statement about paying more for cucumbers, I seriously doubt that will be the case...as I previously stated that's a lame excuse and usually goes right along with the other lame excuse of "they are working jobs Americans won't" oh bullsh**! They are working jobs that Americans CANT because the jobs are already filled!!

If you think about it, your last line is as funny as it is SAD:
"thanks to the willingness of these people to work hard for little money"

Uh, I guess you should thank your lucky stars everytime that you go into CVS, Walgreen's, Rite Aid, Sav-On, Sav-Mor and a few other select drug stores. Why? Because while they are earning minimum wage or just slightly more (about $7 ph), it is NOT enough to support a family and they also work hard for very little money....so that you can get stuff for free with coupons.

There are enough Americans here that are out of work and struggling that I am sure no one would miss the illegals........except the employers.

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SPJRNTGADL!

I think you misunderstood what I've said -- IMO most of the blame should be on the shoulders of the people and companies who hire the illegals. They would not come here if there were no jobs. Why do you think they are hired if its not because they will work for less money then our citizens? Who is to blame when a contractor makes a choice between a roofer who will work for $8 dollars an hour (an illegal) and one who wants $14 an hour (a US citizen). IMO, its the contractor who makes the choice to break the law. Who benefits -- more money in the contractor's pocket, more untaxed money on its way back to the illegal's country, a buyer of the house who pays a few thousand dollars less then it would have cost with citizen labor. The loser is the citizen roofer who wanted a fair wage for a fair day's work.

I absolutely agree that workers at the stores you mention work for less then what is needed to support a family. Do you support a higher minimum wage, I do. Are you willing to pay more for a product if the worker who sells it, makes it, or harvests it is paid more then a minimum wage, I am. If I knew for a fact that my use of a free coupon took money out of the pocket of the clerk who checks me out would I stop using coupons, absolutely. Since that is not the case though, I explain to them how to get similar deals if they ask (and plenty of them do ask btw).

I wasn't the poster who brought up the price of cucumbers but since you mention them, cucumbers are going for almost a dollar each in my area. Between the farmer, the picker, the trucker who hauls them to the produce buyer, and the market who sells them, who do you think makes the most profit on that cucumber -- I doubt its the farmer or the picker and likely not the trucker. Would I be willing to pay $1.50 for a cucumber if I knew the farmer and picker would get paid more for their labor, yes.

I don't know what the answer is but IMO, its disingenous to say that we have not all benefited one way or another by the labor provided by illegal aliens. Nor is it hard to admit that we've lost more then we gained by turning a blind eye to their employment.

Well all this being said I want to add I am in no way for just opening the borders and letting anyone and everyone in. I don't have the answers but I do know what will not work.

I also know that many of the same people in government and regular people who are speaking out against "illegal immigrants" are reaping the benefit of having a lowly paid work force who rarely stand up for their rights.

This country is made up of people from everywhere. We cannot be racist and refuse one group. We must treat each other with dignity and respect. Whether someone is coming here for political or other reasons think of yourself and how you would feel if it were your family.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I have no knowledge of the specifics of the bill.
However I do think something needs done.
We have current laws that apparently are not followed.

Perhaps we need a law decreeing we actually enforce current law?

Since, in this day and age when we are supposedly trying to weed out Terorist, we certainly must remember to watch our southern and northern borders just as much as we watch people arriveing by ship or plane from anywhere,

If your dearly loved neighbor of 20 years is discovered to be an "illegal immigrant" from Turkey will the same rules apply as would if he is from the Southen Hemisphere?
I think the same rules should apply.

Otherwise what's the point of having rules?

just updating - the bill did not pass

Our school district has had to scale back on many programs due to budget issues in recent years.

They have, however, had to hire quite a great number of additional teachers to teach English to the many, many Hispanic students who have enrolled. Approximately 25% of the students in my son's class are children who have come here to the states in just the last few years and came not speaking our language and being sent to school, regardless.

There was a time that students were not permitted to enroll in school unless they could speak the language. I believe there was a lot of wisdom in that. If I moved to France and couldn't speak French, I certainly wouldn't think their school systems should have to provide me with an interpretor and French lessons.

It's highly unfortunate that classroom teachers cannot simply focus on teaching a room full of students who are ready to learn without the very huge elephant in the room: that half of her students cannot even understand what she says!

I just read that the Senate defeated it. President Bush is disappointed. It is too controversial to come up again before the election.

If anyone, not just illegal immigrants, can't speak English, they should have to shoulder the cost for the "extra tutoring", just like if my child were unable to grasp math, or whatever. I would have to pay for a tutor. Let them do the same.

I never gave too much thought to this issue until lately, as this has really come to the forefront. What really ticks me off is that non-English speaking people are taking away jobs from very qualified people. I'm not just talking about picking a dang blueberry in a field, either. I was looking thru my local newspaper's help wanted section....just to see what's out there. There were SEVERAL positions for Admin. Asst, one even with our City, and one of the requirements was "must be bi-lingual". Now, they didn't say, "must speak Spanish", but, I don't think they mean any other language So, you see, non-English speaking people are taking more jobs than you think in more ways than you think.

I think that learning the English language is a MUST for citizenship in the USA!!! And, as an aside, don't you think it's rude when someone starts speaking English to you, then turns to their friend/DH/SO and starts speaking Spanish??? Happened to me at a yard sale I had. I wouldn't sell something to them for DIRT DIRT CHEAP. How rude of them!!!!

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

The discussion seems to have taken a path toward language & citizenship.
Many LEGAL immigrants are not US citizens.
It's not required a person speak English to become a LEGAL immigrant.
LEGAL immigrants have jumped through the proper hoops for the right to be on US soil.
Illegal immigrants have not.
It's that simple.
There should be diff in the way illegal immigrants and LEGAL immigrants are treated.
If one is illegal then how are they legally in our schoold system anyway?
Illegal means "against the law" Does it not?
Of course that doesn't matter if the law is not enforced.
I don't see WHY we don't simply enforce current laws.

If one is illegal then how are they legally in our schoold system anyway?

You'd be surprised.. I used to work for the dept of human services and we were told to accept ANY form identification no matter how false it appeared. And I saw some really good and really bad forgeries of birth certificates. This is how they're all getting away with foodstamps, medicaid, free education.. whatever.

Amnesty didn't work when they did it before!
There are still many more coming in.

U.S. Amnesties for Illegal Aliens

i am a citizen by naturalization, i had to go thru hoops to get my citizenship, i got my citizenship after 7 years, i had to file many applications and each application had fees, a doctor visit paid out of pocket, few times been fingerprinted, and many interviews where my interviewer hinted that our marriage is not a real one, but for the purpose of getting citizenship. had to provide crapload of document, like tax returns, health insurance proof, even receipts for big items like furniture in both my DH and my name.
it is not that i am B****ing about all i had to do, i understand that it is part of the process, but it realy bothers me that other people who chose not to abide by law will have it easy, plus our taxes will be paying for their health care, education food stamps ......

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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

If you want to see what illegal immigration has done for our country live in San antonio.

Congradulations! Really it's great to hear from those who actually followed the law.
I highly agree that those who did not follow the law should by no means get the same rights as those who did.
Those who follow the law earn the rights.
Those who don't follow the laws should not get the rights.

I think legal imigration is great and want to add my congratulations and welcome.

I also think it is a slap in the face to all who came legally like you did.
Why should they give amnesty to the masses of illegals here!!

Immigration bill or not, Where I live is slowly turning into Mexico. I can't even buy carnation malted milk at my grocery store anymore. But they have lots of mexican chocolate drink products to choose from.They are the majority where I live, and are the majority in many other places as well. They even conduct official business in a town in Texas in Spanish only.I am originally from New Jersey where there is a real melting pot and everyone who came here learned English. I have a hard time understanding why Mexicans feel they need to be accomodated .What makes them more special than previous immigrants?

IMO, I think that statement pretty well describes the condition of almost every state in this country
(which, by the way, was a problem long before the additional burden of Illegal Immigrants made it
worse), and is due, in part, to stringent guidelines that are used to determine if our citizens qualify
for government assistance.

__________________

Try living in Hawaii. Lots of "local" food there....it's almost like being in another country, but, they speak (most of them) English

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I found this while doing a search for the US Citizenship test. According to this, they administer the test in "simple English", so, that tells me that people who come here legally SHOULD KNOW ENGLISH. So, again I refer back to my post on how non English speaking (aka non US Citizens) people are taking our jobs.

US Citizenship Test Study Guide


Overview: The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) is a division of the Department of Homeland Security. The USCIS administers the US Citizenship Civics exam. This is a required step in the naturalization process, and all applicants (with some exceptions) must pass the test before taking the Oath of Allegiance and officially becoming United States citizens.

About the Study Guide: The United States Citizenship Test Study Guide is designed to help applicants study and prepare for the US citizenship test. It also answers some common questions that most applicants have with regard to the naturalization process. The US Citizenship Test Study Guide can be used privately, or as a textbook in a course that prepares students for the US citizenship test. The US Citizenship Test Study Guide is written in simple English so that the content can be understood by people whose English is not yet fluent.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I was speaking of legallity rather than actual citizenship.
Immigrants can be here is a legal manner before, or without, becoming citizens.
BUT the legal manner of being here is supposed to mean conforming with related laws.
I simply don't see why those current laws aren't strickly enforced rather than create newer ones.