I know the Duggar family in Arkansas has been discussed before---well, she just gave birth to #17!

Today's THV - KTHV Little Rock News Article

I'm thinking every part of her body should be worn smooth out at this point. Do you think she even has to push during labour anymore???

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

LOL...I'm amazed she can even carry a baby close to term! You would think her parts would be all worn out by now. Wouldn't be my choice but as long as I don't have to support them, who am I to judge I suppose

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I was wondering if anyone knew...Are they a self supporting family or do they receive assistance?

This baby was born 5 days after her due date!! Like someone else posted, I'm surprised she can carry them to term.
I'm not sure about whether they're self supporting or not but I think they are. I don't think they receive assistance but I'm not 100% sure about that. I thought I read it somewhere a while back.

It is my understanding that they are self supporting. Jim Bob Duggar was a state Representative for a few years. He also owns quite a bit of land in NW Arkansas. I believe they or JimBob alone, sells Real Estate. I'm not sure. But, it is my understanding that they are not on any type of govt. assistance (and as so often is the case--I could be wrong about that!)

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Well I guess that's great. I don't care how many kids people have as long as I am not the one paying.

I have wondered too how she can carry a baby after this many why isnt she getting her tubes tied I know some people who said the dr highly recommened it after 3 kids because if they had another it would be life threatning you would think in her case it would be also after so many.

As for does she have to push I dont know when I had my 3rd she basically just came out I think I pushed one time I was in labor 20 mins everyone at the hospital laughed & said if you have another you better be camping out at the hospital because next time you may not make it.

Anyhow this is crazy I love babies but 17 pregnancies um not for me thats for sure!!!

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mom of 3 greats girls

There's comes a time when it's just stupid and irresponsible to have that many kids, whether you can afford them or not. Can you imagine what the world would be like if the population increased eightfold with every generation? How much attention do you think any one child gets in the family? I think it's just stupid and selfish at this point.

I'm amazed she can walk...

I guess if women have the right to choose to abort, then they have the right to have and keep every baby, too. I support her right so long as our tax dollars aren't the ones paying for it. (As is so in many cases).

I believe it is her/his religious convictions. No BC - let God decide. I guess God wants her to breed like a dog.

I know it seems extreme. But they pride themselves on cash for everything. Discovery Health has done a few shows about them on TV. Our friends have 10 and I can't fathom it. Homeschooling and lots of interaction with other families "like"them. It is a neat show to watch.

Interesting you bring this up that as long as the tax dollars aren't paying for it then they can do what they want? What about abortion? Should the states help pay for abortion when half the population is against it? Don't send too many flames my way, I haven't stirred the pot in a while now.

I watched a show on them the other night. They were moving into their new house and OMG what a house it is. They had just had #16 so obviously it was an old show but I was amazed. I have 4 and I can't stand the fighting sometimes. At the end one or the dad was playing a grand piano and the rest were all playing the violin before bed. Give me a break!!!!

I had 4 and just had my bladder put back where it belongs last week. I would imagine her's beats her out of bed in the AM!!!!

It is great for them but the kids are so perfect. I want whatever she is giving them!!

me too, I would be thinking twin beds for me

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My aunt knows them and I've met them a few years ago. They support themselves and have built their own house, father and kids works on it. Their faith doesnt believe in birth control. Maybe God wants her to breed as a dog you say but you dont have to be so rude about it and least she doesnt leave her kids to die in cars or have them and leave them in the garbage. i wished our family was as careing as theirs they are very nice people I've had 5 kids, 4 sons and my daughter died from the umbilical cord guess I might be a dog too or is there a cut off point? no nevermind I dont want to know

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It doesn't remotely appeal to me to have so many, but I certainly can't criticize her for it. She obviously has the organizational skills to pull it off.

In many ways, I believe one-on-one time with parents is over-rated. I believe it is the example and the set of standards parents set for their children that will determine the kind of adults they turn out to be, far more than a punched time clock of personal, dedicated time they devote to the children on an individual basis. It appears their children are far less self-centered than many I know, and they likely have much less angst over whether they have what society has deemed the "it" stuff. They all seem quite competent, and healthy and I highly doubt any of them will grace a jail cell.

It makes me weary to even consider their lifestyle, but there are far worse things - and far worse-off children - in the world.

Apparantly she can do more than walk!

Edited to say: I'm surprised they even have the time to create more children. I only have one & she has a radar on my "quality" time with DH. She seems to need a drink or a story right around that time! I can't imagine how they find the time!

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Amazing Lady, But not up to me to judge her. Never watched a show about them. Learned what I know from the net and chat groups, But seems they support themselves and are not on any kind of program. Hell I know people thats on public programs with only 1 child.

But shes a amazing women is all I can say.

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I remember that large families were quite common when I was growing up. We had one neighbor family that had 11 children, another had 13, and several had 7...and they provided quite well for them. I used to LOVE hanging out at their houses because there was always so much going on! :-)

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If you're not living on the edge, you're wasting space.

That's it exactly. HOW does she make more babies? I don't even think I'd find the time to eat sitting down, or shower!

I was in college with a girl that came from a family with 16 biological children -- came from a Catholic family. She lived in my dorm and was always so happy and accepting of EVERYONE... She was also very well-adjusted to dorm life! She was wise with boys... very mature! Also, all of the other girls in the dorm seemed instantly attracted to her smile and relaxed personality and she always had a few girls with her; certainly not a loner! I think that a lot of it had to do with the environment that she was used to in her everyday life at home and she LOVED to go home! She was the youngest in the family so eventually, it does have to end!........


It wouldn't be for me. I just don't have the organizational skills necessary much less the pain tolerance for giving birth that many times!

I have read that they are self-sufficient and seen the TV shows. The outtakes on those shows show the true personalities of the kids and they seemed less robotic during those. I do feel sorry for the girls that are in charge of laundry and cooking. I think that would be too much of a job to have day after day as a teen... especially since those are the two jobs that I dislike the most as a MOM!

I think that they are doing a great job with those kids but I do think that they are over-populating but that is an opinion that has been ingrained (spelling?) in me from seeing the population explosion during my lifetime.

How can you be self-centered when you're expected to wait on other children in your family? To do all the laundry and the cooking and the child care? What do mom do, exactly, except pop out another baby or two every nine months? She's got herself 17 male and female Cinderellas . . . I think it's appalling. I don't believe in coddling your kids by any means, but neither do I think the kids should have to raise themselves or each other and that appears to be exactly what's going on.

They get a lot of $$ from "sponsors" Must be nice, although, I don't think I could handle 17 kids at any age. I would take the $$ and run away from home maybe come back for holidays and such

I'd say that's rather harsh and judgmental.

The kids can all play instruments - she taught them.

They can all do laundry, and they didn't learn to do that from a nanny.

They can pretty much all cook, and someone had to start that ball rolling. They didn't learn by osmosis.

They homeschool, and someone has to choose the curriculum, order the curriculum, and oversee the entire process.

From what I saw on the Discovery show, she and the kids, together, make up menus for a month at a time, take the back seats out of the big van, and then she and the five oldest kids head to the store, lists in hand, and the kids can all be trusted to know exactly what to get, in what quantity, in record time.

They seem extremely competent, and I highly doubt they have been that way since birth while she hid out in the back bedroom watching As the World Turns.

The skills they possess are highly unusual for children their age in today's society, but were probably the norm 100 years ago. The rest of us, by and large, have our children spending their time doing things that are far more personally entertaining. I don't know about yours, but mine play ball and play video games and play on the computer and go to the pool and to various camps that they find to be terribly fun.

I wouldn't trade mine for any of the Duggar kids, but I do have to admit that if I died and my kids were left to fend for themselves, they probably wouldn't have half the life skills necessary, and it's simply because I have not made that my goal. It's not because they aren't perfectly capable, because I'm sure that their innate abilities are every bit as solid as the Duggar kids.

I also have to think that if anything happened to the Duggar parents, the kids would fare far better emotionally than most, since they would still have one another. Were something to happen to me, my daughter would be left with no female influence or camaraderie in her life.

One of my best friends is from a family with 15 children. I can't begin to tell you how impressive the organizational skills they posses are. They run circles around me. They are leaders, they are gregarious and well-liked, and they are extremely dependable. All of them. They enjoy one another immensely and can't imagine not having one another. Things weren't always roses for them through the years, but none of them would trade their experience for the world. Their parents were farmers, and they lived a much harsher life than I ever did, a life that started at 5:00 AM with chores in the barn so they could be finished and on the school bus by 7:00.

Interestingly, none of them chose to have such large families themselves, but the results of their early beginnings certainly do not speak ill for that type of lifestyle.

It's absolutely not for me, but I'd wager that the vast majority of children raised in such families will grow to be some of our most responsible, least likely to break the law, least likely to rely on the government for help citizens among us when they become adults. If the end result is the "point" of child rearing, my money is on the Duggars.

I don't have a problem with you thinking I'm judgmental -- after all, you're being judgmental as well, aren't you? You're just judging them to be doing a good thing. I disagree. I think they're setting a terrible example and being terribly irresponsible and selfish, both within their own family and in the larger setting of society as a whole.

Do you disagree that it's the results of the parenting that in the end will serve as witness to whether they are successful or unsuccessful at what they're doing?

I'll save my venom for those who reproduce wildly with no visible means of support, either financially or emotionally, and leave their children to be raised by strangers while they stay hyped up on meth and various other substances. They do far more harm to society at large than the Duggars ever will.

well said. They aren't bothering me.. If they want 25 kids that are able to function on their own have at it!! I came from a family of 6 would of been 10 but 4 were killed. spew the venom to the crack whores leaving kids in bathrooms... er wait.. was I being judgmental?

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Yes, I disagree. They are, in my opinion, unsuccessful by definition as members of the human race when they voluntarily bring 17 human beings into the world in one family.

Good for you. That's your choice. I think bringing 17 children into the world in one family creates its own kind of damage.

You have your opinion and I have mine. You judge the way you want (as you are) and I'll judge the way I want. If you feel the need to call me "harsh," (gosh, there's a loaded one, huh?) have at it. I promise it doesn't bother me in the slightest, any more than my opinion of them is going to affect the Duggars.

Gosh, are you under the impression that the fact that I find the Duggars irresponsible and selfish somehow means I DON'T find the crack whore to be irresponsible, selfish, and worse as well? It's not an either/or proposition.

truble2301.

I've read what you feel about this from this thread and the others b4, I would like to ask you how you feel about this.

How do you feel about the career parents that have Children. Going into this knowing they are Doctor's Lawyers, Firefighters, Military, Police Officers. Things that DON'T offer the comfort of a 9 to 5 job.Monday -Friday.. I'm also talking about a 2 Parent working Family as well.

Knowing that once they are up on their 6 weeks leave they have to place the baby in Daycare, Hire Nanny's, Sitters, Family members ( Grandparents, ) to watch baby while they are working, Knowing that at best they may get 1 full day a week to see the baby, bond with baby.

Knowing at anytime they can be called to duty to fight a war in a far off country.
Have a big case to fight in court and will and can work for days at a time with little sleep up to 100 hrs a week or more.

Emt's double shifts,extra calls

would this also fall into the irresponsible and selfish life styles, choices a person makes regarding having children ?

My SIL is a EMT, He has worked double shifts since he went back to them from being on the sheriff's department. Before the Sheriff's department he was a firefighter. when he worked at the firehouse he worked 48 on 24 off.

My Aunt just quit from being a Head Nurse to now being a Social Work at the Hospital she's worked at for 31 years. MANY MANY times she has pulled 18 hr shifts at times she has pulled 24 straight. She also worked the last 15 years with 1 day off per week

I was married to a Army Man, He left for the field for 2 weeks 3 times a year, He also had to pull station duty which required him to be on base for 48 hrs on 12 off for 2 weeks ever 6 weeks. He also trained 6 weeks in the "Made Shift Battle Fields" he went to work 7 days a week for Months at a time.When he left the Army he enlisted and pulled weekend duty every 2 weeks and thats where he has been for the last 28 years. Plus the required 6 weeks per year training.

I have a Family we know that both Parents are Lawyers. I have seen 1 and a few times both work weeks at a time with no days off for the family because of cases they were handling. But even before that their children were placed in daycare and on weekends sent to the grandparents so they could get ready for the court date. in the Summer the kids were either placed in camps or sent to one or the other's grandparents homes. all the children are of school age.

See I have very very strong feelings about each case , But I also would like to see what you think about this also...

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I think you're comparing apples to oranges. You think that lawyers work 100 hours a week on a regular basis. That's such garbage. I don't for a minute think that comparing a family with two parents that work full time is anything remotely like a family that chooses to have 17 children.

Obviously, you disapprove of working parents. That's clear. How would you suggest those parents support themselves?

I live in Arkansas, about 15 minutes from the Duggars. Up until the last few children they had, they went to the same OBGYN that I did (the clinic I had all my kids at quit taking her as she had a c-section and they do not do vbacs anymore so she had the last couple kids at the hospital where I had my first child). The ultrasound tech (she's a midwife too) that is in a few of the shows has done the ultrasounds on 3 of my kids and I know her! The doctors that delivered her kids have delivered mine too. Our name starts with D also and whenever I go to pick up my pictures at Sams Club, they always have a package or two there also, ha ha. We see them out in one of our favorite restaurants, etc. They seem very nice.

Jim Bob labels himself a 'real estate investor', he ran for a state senate spot a few years back (he lost) and it was reported that he used $100,000 of his own money for the campaign. These people are not poor (I know it comes across like that sometimes on the show with them shopping in resale shops for all of their clothes, their vans constantly breaking down, etc.). They have about 20 acres in this area where they built their massive house. Land here goes for at least $40,000 and up per acre for large tracts of land, and about $80,000 per acre if like 1-2 acres is bought (it's crazy here) or just a lot even. This county has a website that lists all properties, how much was paid, etc. A couple of years ago Michelle did an article for Parents magazine (I think it was Parents anyway I can't remember but I read the article) and stated that them having 15 kids (I think it was either 14, 15 or 16 at the time?) was totally the norm for people in Arkansas. Um, no it's not and honestly there were a lot of people pretty upset in this area that she said that & they published it. It was the talk around here for awhile anyway. People felt that she had basically set Arkansas back a few notches into peoples' old mindset of what the state was like.

The only thing I wonder about with their family is how the kids are going to fair when it's time for marriage. Assuming of course that the kids choose to marry someone that is not in another large family that is already a friend of the family (does that make sense?!). I think it is going to take some serious adjusting from the new daughter-in-law or son-in-law to become a part of that family, moreso than normal I think. They seem to have wonderful values that most of the 'real world' has left far behind (not saying their values are bad--I think they're great actually but the majority of the people out there are living in the rat race anymore). They do seem like very genuine people and I would trade all 19 of them for the neighbors I have now in a heartbeat.

I am not going to get in this particular argument, but I will say that I have read enough here on the boards by various folks to suggest that the following idiom is quite appropriate: "people who live in glass houses should not throw stones".

cj/

Where are the posters who cry for freedom of government intrusion, women's rights, the right to raise your children as you like? Wow, looks like right now they're roasting the Duggar family at the stake for having children and actually raising them without government help, raising the children to show respect for people, raising children to have talent, responsibility and care for each other!!!

Got2Save2 makes a great point.

Gosh, I guess some on this board would like for sterilization after 1 or 2 babies??? Or perhaps killing the baby if a 'oops' happens and a woman has more than what some posters deem too many babies??

It's no one's business how many babies the Duggars have. I think some on this board have many children. Guess you want to flame them, too???

We're right here. You might notice that we're not stopping the Duggars from having all the kids they want and raising them the way they want.

But we're also exercising our right to criticize what they're doing. Having a right to do something doesn't mean having a right to be praised for doing it.

Is that really hard to grasp?


Talk about apples and oranges. Who said anything like that?


No, it's not. But when they put themselves in the public eye and tell us all about it, they open themselves up to criticism, which is exactly what they're getting.


I think you might want to check on the definition of flaming.

FWIW, I was not commenting on the Duggar family AT ALL. I find it outside my comprehension as to why a family would want to grow so big and how they run the household, but I don't have any feelings on it right or wrong since they seem to be managing it without public assistance.

My comment was aimed squarely at got2save2's inference that working mothers and parents with some demanding occupations were not doing right by their children (to paraphrase) while at the same time having told incredible family stories that make working moms look pretty benign by comparison.

cj/

I agree with Truble.

Those parents need to find another hobby.

It's fitting that the Dad's name is Jim Bob. (You know you're a redneck if your name is Jim Bob. You know you're a redneck if you pop out 17 kids and you still want more, You know you're a redneck if you think it's cute to give all 17 of your kids names that start with the same letter. You might be a redneck if you consider rampant overpopulation a gift from the Lord (I stole that one from someone else.))

Please, please, please do not think that this family is a repreesntation of the average family from Arkansas! They are not. NW Arkansas (where they live) is one of the fastest growing areas. It's home of several major corporations (JB Hunt, Tyson, Wal-Mart, to name a few)--and is very rich in culture and diversity.

Also, I don't know if any of you realize it but the term "red-neck" didn't start out as necessarily derogatory--it started out as a reference to farmers/rancher/"cowboys" who's necks were always red because the neck was always sun burnt (the only part of the body that wasn't covered or shaded w/ a hat). So, while, I'm sure many people think the term red-neck is the highest of insults--you might want to reconsider it!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

No, I don't think they represent Arkansas, LOL! I wasn't even considering where they're from when I made my redneck comments. I am aware of the origins of the term. I was just using it in the Jeff Foxworthy sense.

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I heard there is supposed to be a show on Discovery Monday night about the Duggars. I don't care how many kids they have. I just don't see how she does it. My 2 can drive me crazy(most of the time). I can't even imagine all the laundry. Cooking dinner for the 4 of us feels like such a chore sometimes(like tonight I just don't feel like it) can't imagine having to cook so much. I bet she doesn't have picky eaters. I have 1 who will eat anything and one who is so picky it is annoying......

[quote=mom2twins2;2851229]... roasting the Duggar family at the stake for having children and actually raising them without government help ... QUOTE]

I could care less about these nuts, but ...

You are quite mistaken about not receiving government help here. They get huge amounts of money knocked off their yearly taxes $17k+ off. That's not off their income, that's off the bottom line! I bet they have a great, free, accountant and pay no taxes...shoot, they may even get money back from the government. So, they receive public funds to raise their own little cult. And, if their church helps them in any way, there's more subsidized dollars.

No I don't think this is a "Apple" And "Oranges" comparison at all.

You think its irresponsible and selfish life styles because they "can't' give the children time. So these groups of families I pointed out also cannot give their children anymore time than what the Duggars can.

And for the record, I don't have a problem with Working Families at all..

Of course NONE of us know just how much time ANY family gives to their children unless we are living in that household 24/7..

My point in posting what I posted was to let you know there are people that think working Families are no better with 1, 2 or 3 children that live this life style with their jobs as there are about the Duggars having 17 Children.

Also, to let you know about these families

My DD is a sahm and expecting her 3rd son in sept

My Aunt has never been married Nor does she have any children

And Our friends thats Lawyers are WONDERFUL LOVING PARENTS, that has raised 2 wonderful, bright, caring, smart boys. They are straight A students. even tho they attend camps, daycare, Grandparents watch them in summertime. and the Parents work crazy long hours at time, they still love, care and spend time with their boys.

and as far as my Ex goes Well I don't like him at all, But have to give him credit, He is a pretty good Father to our and his other Children. They take Vacation's, He put our son thu College
*(My son is now in the Air Force )*

There's always going to be things that 'We" can pick from the Duggars to working Families other people see as wrong, But in the long run unless we live with in that family household how can we say what they are giving or not giving to their children now can we?

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SHE doesn't, that's the trick. The kids are doing all the work -- except the popping out more kids. If you read her own account of their day, the kids are doing all the cleaning, cooking, shopping, etc.

She likely does some of the work as well as training and directing the children in their work.

Does this family homeschool? Do they do things to reduce their environmental impact?

cj/

Yes, I'm sure she does act as their taskmaster. From what she said, it appears that each older child is responsible for a younger child's supervision, chores, helping them dress, etc., etc. One child makes lunch, another makes dinner.

And, yes, they homeschool. As far as reducing their environmental impact, I have no idea.

We were discussing this on another forum and its actually part of their religion that they go forth and multiply I went out and googled their religion and I was well floored, Google Quiverfull and you will probably be scratching your head and saying some curse words.

I had always been amazed at how well adjusted the kids are still am but the Quiverfulls take on Birth control just makes me sick, who are they to tell me whether I can or cant have children?

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On that creepy Web site, quiverfull.com, it states, "Whether your quiver is large or small ... " That line cracked me up. Is that a euphemism?

Yes, and so does everyone in the U.S. who has children and mortgages and college expenses. Also, since they homeschool, they're still paying taxes into the public school system, a system they do not use.

And as for Mrs. Duggar being a 'taskmaster' as one calls her, what's wrong with an older sibling helping the younger siblings? That pretty much happens in every family. And as for chores, there's nothing wrong with having chores for every child to do. When my boys were growing up, they had chores to do, and I'm sure most moms on this board have their children doing things around the house. Mine washed dishes, loaded the dishwasher, emptied the dishwasher, helped do laundry, mowed the yard, cut the weeds, vacuumed, mopped the kitchen floors. Does that make all moms taskmasters????

Well if she's the quiver, hers ought to be pretty darn big by now.