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The Cafe - 'TC' So? Your daughter wants her belly pierced? Your cat keeps using the couch as a litter box? Your husband taped the Hockey game over your wedding video? Your neighbor has a gnome collection and it makes you mad? Pour yourself a cup of coffee and come on in to The Café! Talk amongst yourselves...discuss, question, reply, or respond to many subjects!

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Old 08-04-2007, 08:09 AM
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Working Moms, SAHM - why the battle?

It seems to me that this topic comes up periodically and/or exists as a constant undertone - so I thought I'd just bring it up as a subject of its own.

My perception is that it is the SAH crowd knocking the working mom crowd, and very seldom vice-versa (unless provoked). Is that an accurate perception or am I biased somehow? Why the need to knock working moms and make them feel like they aren't doing what's best for their children? What's so wrong with working AND being a mom? Is there some kind of jealousy going on?

My personal opinion is that there is not one correct formula, no one-size-fits-all solution. I respect everyone's right to choose what works for their family. I wish that we could support each other, rather than knocking each other.

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Old 08-04-2007, 08:32 AM
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I suspect if I voiced my opinion, the flames would reach high enough to hit the moon. Suffice it to say that I agree with your second paragraph.
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by truble2301 View Post
I suspect if I voiced my opinion, the flames would reach high enough to hit the moon. Suffice it to say that I agree with your second paragraph.
You work, correct? It sounds like you have the same perception as me. What I'm wondering is if others in a different pair shoes than me feels exactly opposite....like somehow the working mom is looking down her nose at the SAHM...which I definitely do not...and maybe everyone's perception is not quite right. KWIM?

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Old 08-04-2007, 08:42 AM
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Speaking for myself... I am a SAHM... No, I never, never, never knock a working mom and if I have, I apologize.

We all come from such diverse backgrounds and have such different stories that there is no way that this can be black and white... ie. stay-at-home vs. working.

And YES, we need to support each other and not knock each other down. I firmly believe that most people do the best they can with what they have.
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:46 AM
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You work, correct? It sounds like you have the same perception as me. What I'm wondering is if others in a different pair shoes than me feels exactly opposite....like somehow the working mom is looking down her nose at the SAHM...which I definitely do not...and maybe everyone's perception is not quite right. KWIM?
Yes, I work full-time as a lawyer. In fact, I've worked every day of my life since I was 16 except my first semester of law school when school rules prohibited us from working. I think we agree completely in our perception.
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:51 AM
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Can you provide links to some of these discussions from the past? Thanks!

Us SAHM's brains sometimes turn to mush! From what I understand, truble is a lawyer and cj is an engineer for a Fortune 500 company and in charge of a team.

Last edited by Cuthie; 08-04-2007 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 08-04-2007, 09:02 AM
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Us SAHM's brains sometimes turn to mush!
Baloney! You are one smart lady, Cuthie!

And yes, I am an electrical engineer by education, but I don't do any real work now. I just manage people and projects. (and am currently embroiled in a personnel situation that may require truble's legal expertise...grrr.... )

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Old 08-04-2007, 12:29 PM
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I've been on both sides of the fence. Now, I work part-time out of the home. They each have unique challenges. But I totally disagree with the argument that SAHM's brains turn to mush. I know that hasn't been brought up here, but it's an argument I've heard often. For us, the first time I became a SAHM it wasn't a choice; it wasn't planned that way. I had to do a nose-dive into the frugal world. I researched the subject frontwards and backwards while learning the fine art of combining coupons with sales and rebates. My mind was kept very sharp doing the math of couponing, doubling recipes, figuring out if it was cheaper by the ounce to buy a particular item in bulk or not, and figuring out the family budget. I also made frequent trips to the library because reading fiction (especially historical romance and books on the Amish lifestyle) was my hobby.

Now that I work part-time there have been some unplanned benefits. When I'm home all day I have to run interference on the kids' disagreements. When I work my two children stay here with m 15 y/o niece. When I wakeup in the AM there's a list of fun things the kids would like to do when I get home. In turn, I leave them a chore list. Each kid has two chores and then there's list of general chores. I'm very proud of them for handling that general list. There were bumps in the road at first, but they discussed and bargained till they were both happy. They would have missed that opportunity if I had been home all day. And they both anticipate possible roadblocks to us being able to go have fun after work so they plan ahead. I think these are valuable life skills they need.

I guess the bottom line (for me anyway) is that neither one is wrong. There are advantages and disadvantages to both lifestyles. As long as it fits yoru family, then it's right.

Did any of that make any sense? LOL
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:16 PM
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I would have loved to stay home with DS, but it wasn't financially possible. My paycheck gives us a home, medical, food, etc. I pay a SAHM friend during the summer and school holidays to watch him. Works out great for both of us - he hangs with his friend, she gets a 'salary' and everyone wins. My son is with a trusted friend, not another name at a summer program.

I have SAHM friends and working mom friends. I made a decision when DS was born to not be 'corporate mom' and took a lesser paying job closer to home so I could be there when he was sick, when school started, when activities needed a parent. I have a friend who works the midnight shift at a store - they need her income, but she couldn't keep a FT day job when her premature son was sick - heard too many 'you're calling out again?' comments. Other friend quit when she realized that day care for 2 under 5 would be 80% of her paycheck. We've all commented that she's much less stressed since.

But, I quit the PTA when there were too many "why can't you be here to serve lunch for a week?" comments made by the SAHMs there. The attitude was made clear - if you worked, you were considered a 'lesser' mom who didn't contribute enough to their children. Wanted to tell them to leave their homes from 7:30 to 5:30 and see if they still had time to shop, clean, cook, do crafts, and lecture other people.

In the end - we're moms whether we work outside or inside the home.
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:04 PM
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I am a SAHM and I'll tell you what, it really irritates me when I always have to hear you're kids are all in school why don't you get a job? I guess since I don't work outside the home I don't work. Heck, I wish I had a day I didn't "work". Between running kids to school everyday, picking them up everyday, running to sports practices, volunteering in the kids cafeteria 2 days a week and trying to clean my house everyday and cook dinner every day I feel I work. I have lots of respect for those who work and have kids. It's alot of work and it's not for me. But I have never given anyone grief about working unlike the way I'm always getting it about not working.

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Old 08-04-2007, 02:15 PM
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But I have never given anyone grief about working unlike the way I'm always getting it about not working.

Jen
Who gives you grief about not working??? That's kinda rude! Personally, whether someone works or not is really none of my business to be commenting on, unless it involves taxpayer's money somehow.

cj/
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:17 PM
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It's odd. And, maybe I am wrong. But, it seems to me that the sort of person who is quick to negatively judge a woman for having children she can't afford to raise without some government assistance often also negatively judges a woman who works and has kids....
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:20 PM
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I've been both a SAHM and a working mom. So I can see both sides of the argument. However, as a stay at home mom, I got a lot more grief than I ever did working. Comments like: "What do you do all day?" or "I would LOVE to not work!" or "I wish I didn't have to get up early in the morning!"-- those comments seem innocent, but imply that a) I don't work (I do- just not outside of the home) or b) that I don't have to get up early-- neither which is true.

The most angry I have ever been is when my mother said something to me like: "Can't you go test drive this car for me? It's not like you have to work or anything!!"
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:52 PM
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It's odd. And, maybe I am wrong. But, it seems to me that the sort of person who is quick to negatively judge a woman for having children she can't afford to raise without some government assistance often also negatively judges a woman who works and has kids....

That's an interesting observation - thanks! Maybe it's because the person sees either one as not doing as good of a job as they are in their chosen occupation?
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:07 PM
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I'll put my flame-proof suit to say that there's one expression I really hate: "women who work outside the home." Women either work or they don't. What we do at home might not be fun, but it's not what most people mean when they say "do you work?" It's the business of life. If we have to fall into this PC stuff of "working inside" or "working outside" the home, then I guess I have two jobs.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:19 PM
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That's an interesting observation - thanks! Maybe it's because the person sees either one as not doing as good of a job as they are in their chosen occupation?
I wasn't specifically refering to the "I'm A Better Mother Brigade." However, that is a pretty common thought that eminates from that particular club.


Oddly, the same group who looks down on woman with kids they can't raise without assistance while simultaneously looking down on woman with kids who work generally often also share the belief a woman shouldn't be able to abort an unwanted pregnancy. Go figure. I suppose, they believe every woman should keep her legs crossed unless she wants to get pregnant, never get raped, and posses the psychic ability of selecting a perfect mate who will support her and her kids forever. And, they will all live happily ever after

FYI - I worked nights and weekends so my kids didn't do daycare. However, that is mostly because I am too damn lazy and cheap. An added bonus was my husband has an amazing relationship with our sons because he was forced to be a 40% caregiver. I can barely get myself ready to leave the house much less a kid or two at the same time. I am in awe of the woman who are able to do that. Hats off to you ladies out there!

And, despite the notion around these parts, I wasn't with my kids 24/7 and they have all turned out to be amazingly capable and loving men. Nary a one has graced the halls of a prison.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:20 PM
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I'll put my flame-proof suit to say that there's one expression I really hate: "women who work outside the home." Women either work or they don't. What we do at home might not be fun, but it's not what most people mean when they say "do you work?" It's the business of life. If we have to fall into this PC stuff of "working inside" or "working outside" the home, then I guess I have two jobs.
Ditto that!
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:27 PM
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Who gives you grief about not working??? That's kinda rude! Personally, whether someone works or not is really none of my business to be commenting on, unless it involves taxpayer's money somehow.

cj/

You're right I feel it's quite rude. I've heard it from other parents at school I'm talking about people I barely know. They'll say, " You're kids are all in school why don't you work?" " Now that you're kids are older aren't you ready to go back to work?" " Aren't you bored not working during the day?" "Are you looking for work now that the kids are in school all day?"
I can't believe they are so rude most of the time. I enjoy being home. I also have PLENTY to occupy me. I don't get any kind of taxpayer assistance or anything. My DH works and I am very frugal and watch our money closely. That's why I am able to stay home. It's just amazing how often I get asked that.

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Old 08-04-2007, 03:31 PM
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If we have to fall into this PC stuff of "working inside" or "working outside" the home, then I guess I have two jobs.
And there's the rub.

I've done it both ways - had a paying job, and a non-paying one staying at home. I've also worked from home.

I believe the nomenclature we give what we do does bear subtle undertones.

As a SAHM, I had a couple of friends with outside jobs that seemed to want me to feel a little lazy because they did everything I did in eight fewer hours. There were discussions in my presence about things we certainly couldn't have afforded on one income that were pretty obviously covert attempts to alert me to the fact that they were accomplishing more than me - not only doing all the things I did, from grocery shopping to laundry, but bringing home money that allowed them the opportunity for more 'stuff'. I was never sure if they wanted me to feel badly about myself, or if they wanted me to get a clue and get off my duff and get a job, too, or exactly what the agenda was.

They wanted me to be fully aware that they had two jobs, and I pretty much just had one, and had the luxury of spreading it out all day, while they were capable of accomplishing everything from 5:00 - 8:00 at home that it took me alllll day to pull off. They were more efficient. They had nicer stuff. They took their kids cooler places. I was obviously an inefficient slug.

I also have homeschooling friends who don't see how on earth I have time for my kids when I work and mine go off to school. I've managed to secure a work situation that allows me to set my own hours, and sometimes those hours end up being from 11:00 PM - 3:00 AM. One or two of them have said things almost with a martyr complex of a tone in their voices about how they can't afford 'stuff' but they're blessed beyond just 'stuff' because they get precious time with their kids.

I understand what they are saying, because I have been there, and the short season I spent JUST being their mom without the additional distraction of a boss and deadlines truly was precious for all of us. And most who say that mean it in the way I personally feel it. But there are some who express that sentiment with a martyr tone that is highly unappealing. It's a choice that they've made, and I think their kids are doing fabulously, and they don't have a thing to prove to me.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:47 PM
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So, wowitsdark, are you saying you DO think it's a good phrase to say "work outside the home"? I'm very confused as to where you're going. I guess I could live with the PC -ess of "work outside the home" as long as those who "work inside the home" are willing to acknowledge that people like me do work two jobs. And I just don't see that in my experience.

I guess I just don't buy into the notion that being at home -- no matter how hard you're doing stuff -- is "work," as opposed to "life." We all have to cook, clean, do laundry, shop, etc. It's not work, IMO -- it's a part of life. If people are so desperate to label being at home "work," they can do so. But they need to acknowledge that those of use who do all that plus hold down a paying job, have two "works."

I don't care whether people stay home or work five jobs. I really don't. But if you make a choice, whatever it is, be proud of it -- and don't try to make it something it's not just to make yourself (not you, that's generic) feel better about whatever your choice was.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:53 PM
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FWIW - I think it is GREAT moms and/or dads stay at home with the kids 24/7. As long as they are happy and that is what works best for them. My sister has kids and has never worked. They are grown and out of the house now. She enjoys her life as it is and isn't planning on getting a job. She is amazingly happy and that works for them.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:58 PM
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I am really enjoying reading the replies on this thread... I have never been in a honest-to-goodness *discussion* about this because every time this topic comes up (in my experience anyway!), someone gets very defensive and the discussion ends. That is not the way it should be...

I believe it takes a village to raise a child and we all have our part that we play -- not trying to trivialize any of this but it does seem that everyone plays their part and does what they can with what they have. We need to accept our differences and support one another...
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:10 PM
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Cuthie - you make me want to sing Kumbaya.... ....I totally agree with the takes a village sentiment! I am also really happy to see this hard issue discussed. Because parenthood requires compromise and sacrifices, I think everyone probably wrestles with the "what-ifs" and second guesses themselves and their choices at one point or another.....or wishes for a day at home or a day at the office...


cj/

Last edited by cjs216; 08-04-2007 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:10 PM
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So when you take your children to your children to the daycare the people at the daycare are not working? I think staying home is a job.
Huh?
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:18 PM
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I remember hearing that about it being a 'sacrifice' to stop working and stay at home... For me personally, it would have been a 'sacrifice' for me to keep on working. I understand what you are saying but for me (and I am only speaking for me!), no sacrifices were made -- just changes... kind of juggling around priorities. It was a choice... and it worked best for me and for my family.

I am VERY happy being at home but all of my activities that I do in order to stay busy are not for or about my children. I volunteer a few hours a week at each school and then do volunteer work that is related to my OWN hobby on every other day of the week... I am not paid for that but I absolutely love it and it helps me stay connected to *ME*.

One more thing... I substitute teach as needed. Not my favorite thing I've ever done but...
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:19 PM
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I don't know either. I think the meds are messing with me. I just read that too and thought the same thing. I love this topic but think I better step out today!! LOL
You feel better honey... That is hard. I can't stand side-effects of meds. Take care of YOU.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:20 PM
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But I also think that we deserve credit for staying home. We did make the choice to stay home but with that choice came a lot of sacrifice. I know I gave up a lot to stay home with my kids.
What sort of credit do you wish for? Apparently you are happy and I would hope your kids are happy and your family functions well with your choice. You haven't given anything up IMO. What you have done is made a trade off, which is apparently working for you. I sure hope you don't let your kids grown up feeling guilty about this so called "sacrifice" thing. I stayed home with the kids when they were very little because it was easier and cheaper for us. I breastfed and there is no way I could work when I was feeding my kids. I just could never get that whole pumping thing down. It wasn't a sacrifice in my mind. It was what worked best for us.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:38 PM
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I never felt it was a sacrifice until now. I am going back to work and feel lost. At the time I was so happy that i could stay home and enjoyed every minute. Now that I am looking for a job I feel like I don't know what is going on in the work world. I feel a little lost.

But I have enjoyed every minute with my children!! I love being with them and they know that. We are all very close and are not growing up feeling guilty.

You just turned this discussion 180. Since you enjoy spending every minute with your children, it seems as though (for you) the sacrifice is going to be working - not staying at home. I am sorry you are unhappy right now and I hope you don't feel lost for too long. There can be a balance, believe me. I hope you are able to find it.

Have you considered providing home child care?
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:46 PM
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Also been on both sides of the fence & I felt worse being a sahm more people asking tons of questions like why dont you work & blah blah blah. Well guess I felt pretty bad too when oldest dd was a baby & she clung to me everyday when I left her at a daycare center because I had NO CHOICE. Now my dh is a supervisor now in engineering & tells me he dont want me to work. I would like a perfect job in my field pt I would be so happy but all I can find in my field is FT. When the kids were small he went to school more than ft & worked 60hrs a week so for a sitter it would have cost more than I could have made.

Well pt works best for us so now I have 2 very pt jobs one inside the home taking calls for infomercials & one on weekends doing demos & guess what for the most part no one asks questions anymore because I have two jobs now LOL I no longer am called lazy & etc. Umm I havent been lazy a day in my life either thats why I owned two homes at 22 & was a single mom no help from anyone the state or her dad or anyone else.

I think both has its cons & pros I cant just not make money either I am way too independent for that so even as a sahm I was always making money somehow. I would never knock either working or a sahm both is hard & both are rewarding.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:56 PM
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people asking tons of questions like why dont you work & blah blah blah. .
There have been times in my life when I haven't worked. I never had anyone ask me that.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:03 PM
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I just don't care what people think about me staying home!!!!!we can afford it ,and I am happy to do it.
we(dh and I) fellt it was better for me to stay home with the kids.our middle child had so many health problems,I had to take hime back and forth to the hospitals,dr,therapy etc....it would have been impossible for me to hold a steady job.


on the other hand ,what I do not like about aquaintances women is ,when they ask for a tiny little simple favor(their words): could you watch my kids while they are sick.daycare/school won;t allow me to bring them. and beside it 's nothing for you to watch more kid,he/she won;t bother you.....
I grew a back bone,and refuse to do it !cause they never return the favors.usually their answer: i work all week and just want to spend time with my family.....
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:03 PM
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I don't know that I know what the right nomenclature is.

I just know that when I did not work, the implication by some of my job-holding friends was that they were more competent than me because they seemed to think they did everything I did and more. Eight hours worth per day more.

Even more than the nomenclature, I guess I would say that it is the attitude of the person using nomenclature that comes through as they choose their terms. When I hear someone need to assert that they "work too", I do think they are immediately presuming that their working counterpart doesn't believe that they labor away their time, and they feel the need to correct the mis-perception that they eat bon bons all day.

Whether one perceives what they do as "better than you" or "better for us" comes through in their tone and the words they use.

Addison, I understood what you were trying to say above. Someone who takes a child to daycare is abdicating their parenting duties to someone else for the daytime hours. They won't be changing the diapers or opening the jar of Gerber or rocking them to sleep at naptime or reading to them. The daycare people will be doing those jobs... and the daycare worker will receive compensation for assuming those duties.

They are the very duties an AHM is doing. So, by definition, the duties an AHM is performing for her own children all day are compensatable (yes I made that word up) duties. They just don't earn a check for them. They do the duties of a professional... just not professionally.

ETA: I work today mainly as a choice. We could make it on DH's salary, but we'd have to continue to scrimp, and I don't care to scrimp for forever. Personally, I keep our house neater when we work because it forces me to be more organized with my time. I'm fortunate in that I can work from home, taking on contracts as they fit in with what our family has going on at the time, allowing me to be in control of whether we can or cannot take a vacation at a certain time, etc. I do have to leave the house for collaborative meetings, and do enjoy the mental stimulation my job provides that I personally didn't get when I didn't have a career. I do think that is a case-by-case, person-by-person thing, though, as I have many AHM friends who find child-rearing to be fascinating business. They're far more in tune with some aspects of their children's development than I ever, ever was, and their brains are highly stimulated by the parenting process. I'm nuts about my kids, and we're very close, but attention to developmental detail and keeping good baby books is not a forte of mine. For good or bad, I'm much more adept at my profession than I am at remembering when teeth came in. But I'm terribly adept at loving my kids and loving ON my kids and being aware of where their heads and hearts are and meeting their needs as I am called to do.

Last edited by wowitsdark; 08-04-2007 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:14 PM
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It's my observation that the people who bellyache the loudest on which one is right and wrong are the ones not secure enough in their own decision to either stay at home or work.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wowitsdark View Post
They are the very duties an AHM is doing. So, by definition, the duties an AHM is performing for her own children all day are compensatable (yes I made that word up) duties. They just don't earn a check for them. They do the duties of a professional... just not professionally

Well, sure, that's true. And I could hire someone to do my laundry or cook my dinner or scrub my toilets, too, so the things I do after I get off work are also compensable, right?

So I guess I don't see your point on this one.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:31 PM
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I will say that my one friend who gave up her job due to daycare costs is the type that doesn't want to do more inside the home than take care of the kids, go food shopping, order dinner, that kind of stuff. She's always making side comments about the amount of yard work I do or the home improvement projects I take on. They hired a painter - I did the whole inside of the house myself and recently my shutters & awnings. I decided to take a week off and strip the kitchen cabinets and refinish them - she was shocked I did it. I have hired a lawn service, but that's because I don't want to waste 3 hours of my weekend mowing (big property). Her husband works 60 hours a week and comes home to mow and take out the trash. That stuff, I just don't get.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:31 PM
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I don't have an opinion either way on this issue as I'm not a mom. However I just wanted to say that when I saw the topic of this thread I was ready to grab the popcorn and sit back and watch the slings and arrows fly.
I am very impressed at how level headed everyone has been in this discussion that is obviously very near and dear to several peoples hearts. As a sideliner I can tell you that I applaud all the mom's here.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:36 PM
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I was attempting to see if I understood Addison's point - not really making my own. Addison said, "So when you take your children to your children to the daycare the people at the daycare are not working? I think staying home is a job." Her point was, I believe, if the daycare people are 'working' than an AHM must be 'working', too, since their duties are roughly equal.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:44 PM
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Thanks, wow, for clarifying. I don't agree wiht Addison's point (if that's the one she was making), but at least now I understand!
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:08 PM
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Holy smokes! I was gone for about 4 hours and I didn't miss any mayhem! Bravo, bravo.....

I do disagree with whomever it was that said there is no sacrifice.....I think all parents have sacrificed some aspect of their lifestyle by bringing children into the family. Certainly, the benefits and joy are many, but there is sacrifice.

I am also still curious as to WHO is asking AHMs (is that a new term?) why they don't work and what they do with their day. Who are these "friends"? I just can't imagine anyone being so rude.....the only thing I can fathom is if the AHM is lamenting finances or lack of adult conversation or something....maybe then I can see it coming up. Otherwise, that's just not nice.

cj/

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Old 08-04-2007, 08:30 PM
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I am also still curious as to WHO is asking AHMs (is that a new term?) why they don't work and what they do with their day. Who are these "friends"? I just can't imagine anyone being so rude.....the only thing I can fathom is if the AHM is lamenting finances or lack of adult conversation or something....maybe then I can see it coming up. Otherwise, that's just not nice.
Me either. How odd.

I did have one neighbor who knew I worked nights yet would consistenly call and then knock on the door during the day. She would say "You were home. Why didn't you answer" I never had a the nerve to call her up at 2 am and ask her some silly question.
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:39 PM
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This has been handled very well! I've learned a lot about perspective from both sides.

I think everyone involved with this discussion is doing what they think works best for what they need to do for their own family.

As a SAHM, I DO want to chime in about the term "work out of the home" - I actually feel that it is a very sensitive, most appropriate way to describe the work SAHM's do, and -- yes-- what I do is most definitely work. The reason I know this is because nobody will trade places with me, and do my work for free.

If stay-at-home-moms are considered the moms that do NOT get a paycheck for what they do at home, then I think the term "work inside the home" at the very least, shows "value" to what SAHM's do. I appreciate it when someone asks me if I also work outside of the home. But now I realize that the person who doesn't like this phrase was one who DOES work outside of the home, so to speak.

Like so many different terms, this one will probably eventually sound negative to enough people, where it will be replaced. But if it IS replaced, I hope it is with another phrase that doesn't minimize the role of stay-at-home-moms. I can see how some people DON'T like this term, but I really do!!

Incidentally, I think the phrase "work inside the home" when associated with SAHM's would be MUCH less offensive to "working outside the home moms" than the old phrase that used to describe SAHM's: "Full Time Moms!" Now, that would really have offended me if I were a working outside of the house mom! While I DO consider myself a full-time mom, I'm positive that ALL mothers consider themselves that.

So we continue to evolve. Incidentally, I don't even like the terms SAHM or even AHM (which is a slight improvement, because the implication that we're STAYING home isn't there). But I'd vote for a new acronym!
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:48 PM
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I am also still curious as to WHO is asking AHMs (is that a new term?) why they don't work and what they do with their day. Who are these "friends"? I just can't imagine anyone being so rude.....the only thing I can fathom is if the AHM is lamenting finances or lack of adult conversation or something....maybe then I can see it coming up. Otherwise, that's just not nice.
In my case it has been friends/aquantances, neighbors, or just people you may meet and have a conversation with. Nope, no complaining about not having adult conversation (which is quite frankly is a bonus of not working for me) or bellyaching about finances (I don't discuss finances with friends or strangers). It's bought up when I've been asked 'what do you do'? And I've experienced the same questions/comments that a few of the ladies have posted here.

Quote:
The most angry I have ever been is when my mother said something to me like: "Can't you go test drive this car for me? It's not like you have to work or anything!!"
I have had that happen to me, too. Except the person has asked me to take her car to get tested for emissions, drop off and pick up her car from the brake shop and a few other errands.
Yeah right. I don't even like doing that for myself! But I guess she figured since I am sitting at home doing nothing anyways....
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:02 AM
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It seems to me that this topic comes up periodically and/or exists as a constant undertone - so I thought I'd just bring it up as a subject of its own.

My perception is that it is the SAH crowd knocking the working mom crowd, and very seldom vice-versa (unless provoked). Is that an accurate perception or am I biased somehow? Why the need to knock working moms and make them feel like they aren't doing what's best for their children? What's so wrong with working AND being a mom? Is there some kind of jealousy going on?

My personal opinion is that there is not one correct formula, no one-size-fits-all solution. I respect everyone's right to choose what works for their family. I wish that we could support each other, rather than knocking each other.

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cj/
CJS, I'm taking that you posted this due to what I posted on the other thread, However, My post WASN'T to put down working Mothers. and a person whether they are the Father or Mother that holds a 2nd job outside the home SHOULD BE PRAISED and NEVER be looked down on.

I posted that in the other thread to make a point on what people can view as not giving a Child one on one time.
When you are on the outside looking in things are not always what they may seem to be.
Mother's and Fathers are judge way too fast on How many Children they have to What kind of Jobs they hold while raising Children.

I don't understand and will NEVER understand why people care what someone does when they are not directly effected by that persons choice.

The arguments and battles over well as a tax payer we pay for their choices if they get aid, food stamps, medical care the list in NEVER ENDING, Yes this is true, but what can be done about it in the long run ?? There's ALWAYS going to be a tax payer funding something.

Food Stamps
Low rent housing
Section 8
Free Lunches at school
Aid to Families
WIC
Medicaid
And the list just goes on and on.

But in the end we cant control what the GOVERNMENT Sets forth for our tax dollars to pay. No one likes and wants to fund these programs, I know we don't and I'm sure everyone that doesn't receive this help does either.

However, Bitching and fighting over what we pay for is USELESS, They have these programs and thats life.
But can anyone here or anywhere EVER say that they will never be in need of this help ?
Saving account, IRA's good jobs with high pay are not always there forever. Things can turn bad for anyone at anytime. There's not one single person that can say what might happen in the next 10 Min's let alone what will happen in the next 10 Min's after that.

I use to be really healthy, then one day I fell very sick I had cancer took me a year to complete my cancer treatments and since then I have had health issues after health issues. I'll never be the same person I was before my cancer. I was a very lucky person I didn't battle my cancer for YEARS and I was also very lucky my ex husband didn't have to leave his job to care for me on a full time bases, HOWEVER, If he had, know what we would have been applying for every public program that would we could to get us by till he could go back to working. But I would have been judged from hell and back from people that didn't understand or never gone thu this.I / we would have been judged each and every time we used food stamps or picked up a check to pay the rent. But these same people never gave 1 single thought to the YEARS we had worked and funded these same programs with OUR tax dollars.

These programs are set for people IN NEED. they are not just set up for the lazy, the ones having more kids than what they can support, its there to also help the ones that has WORKED and need programs to survive till they can get back on their feet.

Parents can work, , have 17 children and STILL LOVE, CARE AND Give their TIME to their children as much as a Mother or Father that stays at home.

In many cases a Parent(s) can give MORE of themselves if they are working Parent(s) because they already know how little theres to give at the end of the day.

My Husband is a PERFECT example of this.He works 6 days a week from 8 Am till 6 Pm. but he finds the time and gives it FREELY to our children. His only off day is Sunday, On Sundays we go fishing, to the park, work around the house, go for drives, Movies, shopping so many things we do on that 1 day.
He also gets the kids up and dressed every single school day because this is time he gets with his children. He could just as well tell me No you get them up because I'm the working on and I want my extra hour of sleep, But he doesn't because thats an hour he spends talking, caring, sharing with our children.

It's has become way to easy for people to sit in judgment over what someone else does.
There's no perfect answer to every thing in this world, never has been never will be.
Working or not , 1 child or 17 children, Who are we to say what the child is missing, not getting? we can't. So why judge them ? I know I cant and I'm sure no one else can either.
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by got2save2 View Post
CJS, I'm taking that you posted this due to what I posted on the other thread, However, My post WASN'T to put down working Mothers. and a person whether they are the Father or Mother that holds a 2nd job outside the home SHOULD BE PRAISED and NEVER be looked down on.

I posted that in the other thread to make a point on what people can view as not giving a Child one on one time.
When you are on the outside looking in things are not always what they may seem to be.
Mother's and Fathers are judge way too fast on How many Children they have to What kind of Jobs they hold while raising Children.

I don't understand and will NEVER understand why people care what someone does when they are not directly effected by that persons choice.

Yes, your post was one reason - thank you for clearing up your meaning. However, I feel an occasional/frequent? undertone of judgment against moms who are employed for a wage outside the home.

cj/
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:06 AM
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As a young woman growing up I had mentally planned my life to "work until I had my children" and then stay at home and raise them. That plan was fine with DH. Then in our area we had BLACK Monday, the day when the local steel mills closed. The ripple effect of this was devastating on many businesses and people in the area. DH had been a purchasing agent lost his job, and then to stay in the area near family he finally found another job where he started at the bottom of a firm and worked his way up to the top over a 20 year period. This also changed our "plan".
I only got grief once, to my face, ...my SIL ( who I really love) when she was pregnant with her first told me SHE was going to stay home and raise her children in a condisending voice. I was hurt, but then also figured she did not have any formal training, degree, etc. and daycare really would cost nearly what she would make.
Both sets of children have turned out minimumly scarred(LOL). SIL went to work when youngest went to school.
As a teacher I have to thank all the SAHM. Without you we would have no volunteers to help with the special things we do for kids. You are so valuable to us...I cannot express enough how much you mean to the teachers at your school!!!
I have always envied those of you who took the opportunity to be at home with your children, but I LOVE what I do!!! I get to spend my day with children every day!!! What could be better!!!!
Thank you!
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:18 AM
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As a teacher I have to thank all the SAHM. Without you we would have no volunteers to help with the special things we do for kids. You are so valuable to us...I cannot express enough how much you mean to the teachers at your school!!!

I know SAHMs do plenty in the schools -- but so do us working moms. Contrary to what I infer from your post, there are plenty of us working mothers who volunteer in the schools.
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:24 AM
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Yup, room mom several years over.........at my sons' gradeschools at least, it tended to be the working moms that did a lot of volunteering for the one time events (parties and field trips) that can be fit into the schedule and a lot of the baking, too. Need all the wheels to keep the bus going....

cj/
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:45 AM
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I spent several years as one of the "reading moms" that volunteered every week or every other week to sit in the hallway while kids read to her -- in addition to chaperoning field trips and baking and working field day, etc., etc. The implication that only SAHMs are in the schools is grossly unfair. In fact, many SAHMs I know couldn't volunteer because they had no one to watch their younger kids!
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:52 AM
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I am sure that she honestly didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. She appreciates her volunteers -- I'd give her credit for that part of her statement.
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