My DS is in second grade this year. There are two boys in his class who clearly need extra help completing assignments and staying on task. Last year these boys were in a very small class with other children who needed extra help -- this year the school has done away with those small classes and split up these children into regular classes.

The problem I am having is that these two boys require a lot of assistance from the teacher which means she spends a good part of the day helping (rereading instructions, keeping them focused, etc.) these two boys while the rest of the class 'sits and waits'. I am really impressed with the teacher and she seems to be doing the best that she can given the circumstances. However, I feel that she needs help with these two boys (like an assistant or parapro to sit with them) in the classroom so that she can spend more time with the majority of the class.

Does anyone have any suggestions about how I can approach this with the teacher and the principal? The county & state are mandating that these children be in a regular classroom and I don't have a problem with that. However, I feel that my child's education is suffering because the teacher isn't able to spend much time with the kids who are on track and can work independantly.

tia......
Sarah

Here is some more information.....
These two students were in what seemed to be a 'regular' 1st grade class, but from what I've heard, all the students in that class had special needs which is why they kept the class size so small. There were only 10 or 12 students in that class and the next smallest 1st grade had 17 (we are capped at 21). It is not that these two boys are just behind the other students, it is that they need extra help -- someone actually sitting with them or they will not complete their work. It is much more than just a child who is a little behind the rest of the class or needs extra help grasping a specific concept -- it is for every assignment. There are only 16 children in DS's class, which makes it the smallest 2nd grade. Unfortunately 14 of them spend a lot of time sitting around waiting for instruction while the teacher is working with the other two students. I would offer to volunteer in the classroom on a regular basis, but I have a younger child at home who I am not allowed to bring with me (for obvious reasons), so that is not possible. The teacher is aware that these two boys require special assistance which makes me think that they probably do have an IEP. Also, this class is the smallest 2nd grade at the school and there are no 'gifted & talented' students in this class.

Unless, it is written in the IEP that they have a personel aide, the school district may not be able to afford the extra salary for the aide. With No child left behind, the special ed. students have to do work on grade level and the teacher is held accountable for getting them there.

You can raise a little cain and ask for a one on one aide, which they do need and should have...however it could be the parents are easily told no and they don't know how or with who to fight for one..lots of parents just go oh, ok. and walk away..no knowing they have the means of getting what they need..I know our system is famous for this..until I come along..roflmao..it is not fair to these 2 boys nor is it fair to the others in the class, which is exactly why I do not have Inclusion for my two in any gradeable class..only for the fun stuff because that way they are not a distraction.
Your best bet is to talk to the teacher and see IF you can get some background. And even in some cases when the parents *think* there is a one on one aide for special needs children, you will sometimes find that aide *farmed* out in another class, with the parents not even knowing that.

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"Cast upon this globe without physical strength or innate ideas, incapable in himself of obeying fundamental laws of this nature which call him to the supreme place in the universe, it is only in the heart of society that man can attain the pre-eminent position which is his natural destiny. Without the aide of civilization he would be one of the feeblest and least intelligent of animals.."
Jean-Marc-Gaspard Itard

I don't think there is really anything they can do about it, there are always going to be kids in class who need more help than others. Someday maybe your child will be that child, maybe your son will have trouble in math next year and the teacher will have to devote more time to him then, kwim?

I would say as long as your son is keeping up with the class and everyone is learning what needs to be learned then that would be good enough for me, it would mean the teacher is doing her job and teaching all of the class. If it seems like a lot of the kids are falling behind then that would need to be addressed, but not just the fact that she spends more time with certain students.

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"A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer

If the children are designated special ed/ or e.d. and have an IEP, the teacher will not be able to give you much, if any, information as this is all confidential. If there is an IEP, usually that child is set up with extra help in many areas. I work with kids in SDC; my kids are special needs and edmotionally disturbed. A general ed teacher always has to take the kids in their class because of NCLB (which is a program I HATE because it is so narrow yet so demanding and does not help our kids in all reality), but they also are afforded opportunities for special help and such as set forth in IEPs. Perhaps the two children have not yet been classified with IEPs, which just then leaves them hanging out there with no help and not way to get it. It sounds like this teacher is trying to do the best job for everyone in the class...but because she is only one person, none of the kids are getting the best of her. It is a slippery slope when kids fall through the cracks. I would ask the teacher if perhaps you or someone else could volunteer to come in and spend some time with these special needs students; or with the general ed students so sher could have some extra time to concentrate on them. I know it can be so frustrating.....

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

My son used to be assigned as a *study buddy* to help the kids who needed extra help. He was chosen because he got his own work done quickly, then took out a book to read. He felt like he was being punished instead of rewarded for doing a good job.

Unfortunately, the other posters are correct that inclusion is mandated. Usually, it has been determined that a teacher aide is not needed...or can't be afforded.

My opinion is that the the average and higher students suffer because of inclusion. Often the teacher has to scale down requirements, or not cover everything because of lack of time. Also, (my opinion again) the students who need extra help are at a disadvantage. They can't keep up with the other students and become frustrated.

ETA Also, I find it odd that Special Education teachers have a limit to the number of students allowed in their classrooms, and for every so many students they have to have an aide. When they put Special Education students in a regular classroom, they can have any number of regular and special education students, and are not required to have an aide. Go figure. There you have a teacher who has not had special education training trying to do it all.

You seem to have some understanding of how much time is being up with the regular education teacher's involvement with the children who have special needs, and you seem to know first hand what an impact it's making on the class.

Would you feel comfortable approaching the teacher and mentioning what you've observed? You would have to take it a step further, and inquire as to whether she is DOCUMENTING the amount of time/attention she interrupts the whole class instruction to attend to their needs. If she already is, then she is already working to address this, it would seem.

The teacher can absolutely make a case for a review with the PPT (planning and placement team) by collecting relevant data - such as how the children with special needs are functioning in that regular classroom without the additional support of a special education teacher or a para, and how much of the regular education teacher's own instructional time is taken up on one-on-one interactions with these 2 kids.

Hopefully, she is already taking care of this, and is doing so discretely, which is what I'm guessing. Good luck!

I would not hesitate to bring it up to the school system. If enough parents bring it up they just might assign an after school study budy or put them into a tutoring class.. what a shame for your son.

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Too many people spend money they haven't earned to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like. - Will Rogers

for the special needs children, the school just dissolving their class may be illegal ! every child has the right to an appropriate education and if a regular class is not appropriate the school must provide it or they are in violation of a federal law!

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Always be a first rate version of your self instead of a second rate version of someone else.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds.

The higher students usually qualify for gifted and talented programs to get challenged.

And actually regular classroom teachers are also limited by how many students they have in the classroom or they get an aide. Granted it is more students at a time than the special ed classes but there is a limit.

And to the poster who suggested asking for background information, unless you are suggesting asking the teacher about her credentials, then what you are suggesting is illegal because of privacy laws. Would you want the teacher discussing your child with one of the other parents? Just something to think about.

Actually, students w/ IEP'S do not have to be in a special education class, they just have to receive special services for a certain portion of the day. Ex, I have a student who has one for math- so during math time I have an aide.

There are people going back and forth right now over whether inclusion classes help students w/ learning issues. I am teaching inclusion this year- luckily my principal caps our classes at 18. Other schools I know of do not cap the classes. I know of teachers who have had 25-28 kids with inclusion students included.

These may just be students who need extra help. It does stink that the "good" students sometimes get left behind when others need help. I try hard to wait and help kids until I have taught my entire lesson(s) so that I can then let everyone work, and I can go around and help the kids who need help.

I guess we are lucky here. Our school has special day classes for special ed students. They all have small classes with maybe 12 students or less all with a full time teacher assistant. A couple of the students also have a one on one aide. None of our other teachers have any aides in their class at all. K-3 has 20 children in each class and 4-6 has 32 to 35 per class. I think it would be very hard for a teacher to have special ed students in her class and no help. Every child is being short changed including the special ed child. A teacher can't spend enough time with them while she has 30 other children in her class. I don't think there is anything you can do except maybe vol. to come in and help out in class. If enough parents can help then everybody wins. Good Luck.

The way in which I have observed the presence of special needs students causing disruptions has nothing to do with the presence of the children themselves, but rather their absence! Specifically, in our district, students with a plethora of issues, from being language impaired (not speaking English well or at all), speech impediments, poor motor skill development, CP, in need of vision-related OT or auditoriy-related OT, dyslexia, and on and on and on, well... what they do is pull those kids to go to receive therapy, special help, English lessons... whatever.

A friend of mine who is a teacher said that last year, she had a 30 minute time period during the week in which every single one of her students was present in the room at the same time. The rest of the time, one or more students were gone to work with a resource teacher.

It's hard to present a math lesson to the class if half the class is gone. The teacher ends up playing catch-up, and the students who were pulled for resource help for a period of time missed the full-blown explanation of the lesson, and therefore are apt to be confused.

One of the biggest challenges in our district has been the presence of the non-English-speaking students who seem to be arriving in droves. They're adorable kids, but they certainly aren't prepared to learn in English. There was a time when students who could not speak the language were not allowed in school. I do think that we'd do well to go back to that. I spoke with an elderly individual once who had come to the states from Mexico when he was seven, and he talks about how immediately his parents made sure that he was taught English by some neighbors so that he could be proficient enough to enroll in school. Another friend of mine recently spoke of his German grandmother for whom this was also true. He said that his great-grandparents spent the bulk of their money on English lessons for their children during their first two months in the States, and that it was a point of pride to have gotten your children ready to a level that they would be allowed to enter the US school system.

I do think that makes a lot of sense. If I moved to another country and my children did not speak the language, I wouldn't presume that their tax-supported educational institutions owed children that I bore free German lessons. I'd feel like it was my duty to get them ready to be able to learn in the language in which school was conducted.

I'll bet the children of parents with that much initiative really benifitted from such a high level of involvement and direction on the part of the parents, and the parents, once invested in the development of their children, were very determined that the assimilate into their new educational culture well.

Obviously, laws and practices vary between states and school districts. I had a class (Family and Consumer Science) a few years ago that had 16 students in it. I had 4 Life Skills students, 4 others with IEPs, 2 gifted and the rest average. No aide. I was threatened with a law suit (by the special ed. supervisor) because I complained. Ugh.

BTW, as mentioned above, DS was assigned as a study buddy. His IQ was one point below qualifying for the gifted program. We were told that he would benefit from the program, and the program would benefit from him...but they would not waiver.

i'm going through this same issue now. ds has only been in school for a week, but he mentions how there are a few kids in his class that "distract" him. he's mentioned the kids have someone (i'm assuming an aide) come in and work with them. i know from last year there were special needs kids in his class, and 2 of them are in his current class.

i spent a good part of the day yesterday researching other schooling options. ds is already ahead of the class in reading and math, and i feel like he's not being challenged. it just seems like the teacher focuses on bringing the special ed kids up to speed more than challenging those who already "get it". i'm giving it a few more weeks before i do anything, but right now i'm leaning toward homeschooling.

Unfortunately the situation that the op child is in is not the teachers fault. It stems from much bigger issues, the over crowding of our school, the lack of teachers then coupled with the No Child Left Behind act. What can we do as parents do should be the bigger question.

What have I been doing? My school has 200 new students this year. I did not call the principal but the district. I let them know that last year my child had 32 children in her class last year and where are they putting these new students. I let them know that lunch now starts at 10 am (school starts at 8:30). The traffic is now insane at drop off and pick up. We end up talking in circles because the problems are all related to overcrowding.

Welcome to inclusion. My problem with inclusion is that I was told by our school principal that inclusion classes equal "soft instruction". Those classes move at a slower pace. That is fine for the kids who need inclusion, for the higher achievers in the class it leads to boredom and possibly being behind the following year. Supposedly for the regular ed kids in inclusion classes it teaches them acceptance and patience. Those are values that I think the school has no right teaching, I will do that at home in my own way.

Inclusion is the wave of the future for education. Talk to most special ed teachers and they do not support it fully. The hope is that all special ed kids will make their way into standard classes but for some they need way too much one on one help to be in a regular classroom which is going to lead to frustration and behavior problems.

I don't know what the solution is but I am glad that as a 5th grader my daughter is not in the inclusion classrooms, I was dreading the thought that she could possibly be slowed down before entering middle school.

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TLJ ~ Women United in Spirit

I wanted to add that inclusion doesn't always have to be the "smart" kids leading the "lower" kids. In my room, for the first couple of weeks we do activities that show me where all the kids are. Then I start making learning groups based on what everyone knows. Ex: For math, 75% of my class needs my help- so we do a whole group math lesson- but I have a special math contract for the 25% who really do not need me to show them things all the time. I only meet with them when we review their work, or if they have questions about something.

Teachers do not have a choice about how many kids they have in their room, or who they have in their room. I went into teaching inclusion this year- afraid that I would not be able to do the activities I usually have my kids do. Yes, I am having to modify for some- but honestly- my parents have loved it so far because my numbers are so low. I am able to give the kids more attention than I could when I had 25.

My GS has an IEp,and is main streamed.He worls a part of every single day with at least one specialist to help him one on one,in a private area,away from the regular class room.

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People that hate cats will come back as mice in their next life. - Faith Resnick

Well, the middle school I work in was built for 925 students, but because of population growth in the area we have a current school enrollment of 1408 students. As you can imagine, each and every class is impacted. We do not have a single classroom in the school with less than 35 students--and some have as many as 40. AND these rooms do NOT have more than one teacher in each room. Our school has about 45 or so SDC, ED students and about 70% of them are mainstreamed at least 50% of their instructional time. Since I work in SDC I see this from many angles. Also, since I have two kids who are very bright and helpful and congenial, I have also had the "pleasure" of having both of my two singled out as "student helpers" (or study buddies as some have said.) My kids helped, and because of my background, they were already very compassionalte students; that being said, I saw that this sometimes set them apart from the other students too. Also, in the classes that my own kids were in, because they were well above average for the class, I saw that they were not getting the proper additional support needed at school because of overwhelming needs for the so-called "needier" students. I feel that my own two have their own special needs--i.e., the need to be challenged so school does not become a chore and a bore to them; a need to be presented with material that spurs their growth. It just doesn't happen when you are impacted.
I don't really know what the answer is... but I do know (or believe with my heart) the No Child Left Behind has been a total failure and has caused problems for so many people.

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

I definitely think inclusion classes/programs are different from school to school/county to county/state to state.

Fortunately in my school (I am a special education teacher with 11 years of experiences) we have an excellent inclusion program.

We look at the child's needs and place them accordingly. We have inclusion classrooms where a certified, sped teacher goes into the core classes (Reading, writing and math) and coteaches helping anyone that needs extra support/modifications/reteaching.

We also have "pull-out" small group classes for more individualized instruction. We have to justify this placement out of the regular classroom.

We also have "separate" settings for more moderate to severe disabilities but even these students mainstream out of their class for PE,Music, etc.

I have worked with inclusion classes for 8 years and have seen it be very sucessful for all students. All students can benefit from having an extra teacher in the classroom.

Currently, I teach 2 pull out classes and 3 inclusion classes. I love my inclusion classes and fortunately so do most of our teachers and parents.

Just wanted to share a positive experience for inclusion.

__________________
Shelley
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~Mom to Andy-11/3/05 and Ryan-7/31/08~

Unfortunately, such as in our school district, enrichment programs (or G & T programs) are NOT required by law, and so many school systems don't offer them.

Yes, or school system identifies the students who qualify for these services, but no, they do not provide them...go figure...

Check w/your particular school district.

It's amazing what children can learn from having a special needs student in their classroom. Of course some kids chose not to but those that do learn far more than math and spelling, they learn life skills that can't be taught any other way. Because of least restrictive environment laws students are placed where they will learn the best. Special needs students have a right to the same education as every other student. Perhaps it has been determined that these kids just need a little extra help -- I would assume that there's generally students in reg ed that will need additional help -- by law the teacher can't divulge any information about these kids. If she's talking about these students she's probably not above talking about all her students.

I am surprised that you have been allowed to sit in the class and observe all of this.

It seems that all schools are different but in our school, the parents must leave the children at the doors outside the office and are not allowed into the classroom unless they have been fingerprinted by the police department.

What a world we live in. All in the name of safety for our children.

As far as 'waiting'... it teaches the kids patience. As the poster above said, children can learn a lot more than the 3R's in school.

It'll probably do the 2 boys a lot of good to be in a regular class too, besides the 3R's, getting to interact with the other students besides all special needs kids. There really isn't enough backround to make a compaint. If you see your childs work suffering, then I could seee having a conference and discussing it, but I would think the other students would have work to do while they are waiting? Maybe they could offer to help the students having problems?

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"A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer

Welcome to inclusion is right. My child's work suffered because of being in an inclusion class.,

My DD was put in a inclusion class for two years because she was "the role model" for these kids to look up to.

Here's is my problem with that. First my DD needs to be challenged not soft served! Second these kids don't need some oober smart kid who does nothing wrong and doesn't need any help as their role model. Yes, they should have to strive to be THEIR best not my DDs.

Inclusion sucks from both sides! We had to bust it here, over the summer, for my DD to catch up to the other fifth grade class so she wouldn't be behind when she entered fifth grade......Why you ask, b/c the teacher didn't have time to move forward like a regular class would. While Im sorry for those kids it would seem better for all to have a smaller inclusion class. Those kids could get the kind of help that they need and the other classes could move forward and progress as they can.

__________________
Vicki


TLJ Women united in Spirit!

One of my ds' was in an inclusion class from k-5. At first the students were helpful to him. As he got older and caused more problems the kids turned on him and yes, all the students were talked to about it. He disrupted the class so much the teachers had to take a lot of time out of the day to stop him. Most of the kids were bored because they had to sit around waiting for him to quiet down. (In the school my ds went to we had to spend time helping the school, so I spent a lot of time in the class.) He also didn't have time limits on tests. So what took most of the kids 1/2 hour to do it could take him 2 hours, sometimes longer. What do you do with the rest during that time? It turned into a no win situation for all. We have a GT program. It is one day a week. This does not help with the other days.
I don't know what the solution is.
Judy

This is the very reason I LOVE my kids charter school. My son started in Public school, a young Kindergarten program and when the teacher told me how smart he was all year and then to only promote 1 child to 1st grade I looked into other schools. The school they are in is a back to basics school and the classes are based on levels. Those performing at state required level are in the D or F level(depending on number of classes they have for that grade) and those working above are placed accordingly. The A-level ends up working a grade above theirs by the end of the year. All the students in the class are on the same learning level. If they can't keep up or are working above the other students they are placed where they need to be. They look at test scores and grades to place them then they evaluate students each year(the first 2 weeks of school ) and make changes if need be. My son (who is a year younger than the kids in his class because he started early) started this school in st grade but the D-level(had one class lower). He made straight A's and was bored with it by the end of the year but she only had 3 openings in higher class and had 4 kids needing to move and since he was youngest she held him back. The next year he was moved up to C level. She had him for 1 week and moved him to B level. Third grade until present(6th grade) he has been in the A level classes. This year his class helps out the 2nd graders(lowest level class) as study buddies and they read to Pre K kids once every 2 weeks. My daughter was the opposite. They put her in the A level class this year for 1st grade and I ended up moving her down. It was just to fast paced for her and she was frustrated and hating school. She has problems though that I am working on getting her set up on a 504 plan. She is partially deaf in 1 ear and is diagnosed OCD. SO although she doesn't distract or take away from others learning she needs to have instructions read to her more than once(sometimes).
Back to your issue, is there any way to move your son to a different class? I personally believe that we the parents have to look out for our own children's best interest. I am a big believer in a great education and I know first hand my kids are getting the most they can right now. I have nieces and nephews and tons of friends with kids my kids ages and they haven't learned half of what my kids are doing.......