How do you feel the No Child Left Behind Act is working in your public school?

Do you feel that you child spend most of the year working towards the "test"( here it's the FCAT)?

Is your curriculum too narrow where most learning is on certain subjects and others pushed aside?

Does your child have gym, art or music?

I don't know how it's working overall. I do feel we're spending a lot of time teaching to the test. However, here, they're re-doing the curriculum to more match the test. We live in a very high ranked school district and I feel they are learning a lot and their scores show them well above the national average, but sometimes I wonder how much they're missing (that's not being tested). We do have gym, art & music all through elementary school and 6th grade, as well as Spanish starting in Kindergarten. They still have gym through 9th grade, but all the others become electives in 7th grade.

Lisa

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How do you feel the No Child Left Behind Act is working in your public school? It's not. There are not enough teachers to make small enough classes to make it work. And I know this is a nationwide epidemic. Until we convince our governments - federal, state, county - to find more money for education it is not going to work. When they have to provide reading teachers in high school you know it is not working. How the hell can a kid in high school not read or still need help with reading comprehension? Reading is the base of all learning, you have to be able to at least read the directions in math, and some kids do not have it after 9 years in school.

Do you feel that you child spend most of the year working towards the "test"( here it's the FCAT)? Because of what should be end of year testing being given in February, teachers have to skip around to cover test material. It takes away the natural progression of subjects like math & science. These tests being given in Feb is a joke. If my kid knows all she needs to know by Feb why do I send her to school til May??

Is your curriculum too narrow where most learning is on certain subjects and others pushed aside? Curriculums are narrow in all subjects, see above.

Does your child have gym, art or music? We get coached PE once a week, go outside to play everyday. Art & music are once a week I believe.

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I have issues when my child is in 3rd grade an at parent teacher conferences last school year we are told that they will not be focusing too much on science or history because they are not being tested on those subjects. I don't think it is fair to the students. They will be lacking in areas the need as they continue on in 6th and 7th grade and up. I truly think it is unfair. My child who is in K does have gym everyday. My 4th grader has gym 3 days a week and music 2 days. But our school district has made some aweful changes to the district. we have 4 elem schools and they where all k-5 well last school yr they decided to change them and make 2 of them k-2 and the other 2 are 3-5. 2 of the schools where failing and they had to try something. Long story short the school board told us parents we don't want to hear that you bought your houses in a certin area so your kids could go to that school because that is not how it works. We have no say as to where our kids goto school and my 2 are in two different elem schools. My youngest has to go all the way across town to school and my oldest walks out the driveway and there is her school. It really sucks.

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I hate this crap!!! I have a son who is 18 and autistic. When we lived in Texas he was made exempt from having to take these tests. We moved to AZ and they have the no child left behind crap. My son is very smart. He has EXTREME MAJOR test anxiety. It is absolute misery while they are giving the tests. He is grumpy, tired, and cries over everything. I've told the school how I feel about it. I realize it is probably a good idea, but there are many special needs kids who will NEVER pass these tests and it just puts lots of undue anxiety on them whan they certainly don't need it.

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Here in California, and especially in the district where I work, we definitely teach to the tests. HOWEVER, th at being said, here in California the test is NOT MANDATORY. And we are in a NCLB state/district, so I don't think it is mandatory for NCLB regulations. Here in California, you can opt to have your child NOT take the tests. BUT, the district does NOT inform the parents about this. I found out accidentally....and opted my DD out for a couple of years. She is a 3.75 to 4.0 student, but does HORRIBLY on tests for some reason. We have never stressed her about these tests because I KNOW they did not affect her report card grades or transcripts; her scores ONLY affect the district scores. But, they tried to talk me out of opting her out of the testing -- too bad, I did it anyway. crzy4cpns, I would ask to make sure the tests are MANDATORY or whether you can opt your son out. It might save you and he some headaches down the road.

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Our special ed students in our special day classes do not have to take the test either. It must be different from state to state. Our schools also teach mostly what is going to be on the tests. Our first grade teacher told us that she can only spend a little time on telling time because it is not something that they test on. The teachers don't like it either. My youngest 2 are in 5th and 6th grade and they only have PE twice a week. If they are too busy they don't even get that. There is no music at all and there is only art if the teacher likes it and does it themselves. We do have an art program that the parents(art docents) do so they get that once a month.

I have mixed feelings and really couldn't tell anyone how it's truly working out.

I do know I hear teachers complain that they have had to cut the "fun stuff"...

At the same time... I thought they did too much fun stuff before.

Teaching to the test doesn't sound like a good thing, however, if what the test is going to measure is that which is most important, and it makes teachers spend more time focused on those things, I think that could be a good thing.

For instance, our 4th graders used to spend a huge amount of time - practically an entire month - on a state history unit. They spent an incredible amount of time learning about pioneers, making things such as toys and foods and ink like the early pioneers made, etc.... and it all culminated in a big festival. It was awesome! Now they don't do that at all.

But... their math scores have certainly gone up, as have their reading comprehension scores.

Well...

I know that in my state, we really focus on the test. In the grade I teach, my students are tested in every subject (including writing), so honestly I try to focus on everything (although, I spend more time teaching Reading & Math- I try to incorporate Science and Social Studies into my Reading time).

My students have 35 minutes of P.E. every day, and have an additional special 4 days a week for 30-45 minutes.

Im not a teacher so I dont know if its working but personally in our schools this is all that is taught in
middle and high schools there isnt any fun time for anything, heck we lucky if the high school has
physical eduation, as a matter of fact in our high school they have cut out 1/2 semester of gym
so that the kids can take this specific class for the special teachings, I complained but they
said there isnt anything they can do they have tried to work about it but they cant, I said
well every kid needs exercise dont they see this..... my high schooler has went so long without
pe already its not even funny she is a senoir this year and I dont think she has it till the end
of the school year.

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Yes there are trade-offs. With the curriculum we have, basically the entire morning is spent on reading, spelling which ties into reading. Most of the afternoon is spent on math. The students do get one special class class a day (music, art or pe). Computer lab is 4 times a week, but they have to do reading or math curriculum in the lab. There is usually only time to do either social studies or science in the day if you are lucky. The fun stuff, and by this I mean all of the projects or fun presentations, experiments, well there just isn't enough time in the day for it and it gets cut out.

One teacher used to turn her classroom into a rain forest to teach the students, well no more time for it.

Ours still do have a lot of that stuff.... but just not *so* much that they let other subjects go by the wayside for weeks on end. Before, I did see that happening some.

I'm really surprised at some of the comments made, such as the one regarding no more P.E. The reason it surprises me is because I don't believe our high school has lowered the PE expectations. What I guess I don't understand is... how do I ask this? If it's a national standard that is to be met, if one school has decided they can pull it off without cutting PE or some of the "fun stuff", and other schools seem to think they have to wipe out all fun stuff and instead only drill and practice the three R's from 8:00 - 3:00, what does that say?

Is it that a particular district has the freedom to assess their own strengths and abilities and student population, and then make the decision regarding what they must alter to meet the standard within their own district? But that they aren't *required* to do it in a specific way?

In other words... was the choice to cut PE, as mentioned above, simply a district level decision that *other* districts didn't make? If so.... how do such schools compare with one another in terms of national standard scores? Does the no-PE school do better than the schools who kept PE in the school in full force?

I guess I'm asking is the District to blame when they opt to work out their NCLB issues by cutting programs... or is NCLB to blame? In light of the fact that other schools also trying to meet NCLB standards have chosen *not* to cut some of those things... is what I mean.

I could go on and on and on about how I feel about NCLB, but I'll be to the point here -- it stinks!

DS's school spends the entire second semester (after Christmas break until the CRCT test in April) teaching for the test and then after the test is given, it's pretty much free time for the rest of the year. What a waste of education. Sure, my son can color in the 'bubbles' on the test, but what about teaching the basics which will improve the test scores anyway. Whatever our school is doing, it must be working because out of over 900 students, only 18 did not pass the test last year. Unfortunately, if it wasn't on the test, I doubt they would know it. It is so sad for me to even think about.

This year my DS has two special needs children in his class, without an aide. That means the teacher has to spend tons of time with these two students just to get them to even do their work. I love DS's teacher this year, she is wonderful, but I feel like DS isn't getting enough time with her as she always has to work with these two special needs students. I and other parents have complained about the situation and we hope to have an aide placed in the classroom, but I don't know if that will happen or not.

Sarah........mom to Jason & Devin

Sarahsh, while I completely understand your concerns, isn't it also true that the local school is as much or more to blame than NCLB? It sounds like they have plenty of time to get in other things, even if they waited until after the test was given and spent the last six weeks - 1/8 of the entire school year - strictly on those other subjects? If they still have time with the kids and are still receiving paychecks, I'd say they are accountable for continuing to educate those kids for the rest of the year even if the NCLB requirements are gone.

Just knowing what I've seen happening here and the transitions that have taken place and the transitions that haven't taken place, I'd say that the same mentality that some (and certainly not all!) teachers had prior to NCLB that had them more concerned about "making learning fun" by doing fun stuff all day (and not focusing so much on the most basic or the higher level reading and math skills) is still there... at least where you are... because it sounds like even given *time* in which they could seize an opportunity to enrich, they choose not to.

I am a product of a teacher's ed program in the 80's, and taught at the elementary level for several years. I remember so much about "making learning fun." Fun isn't bad... pleae don't get me wrong. But it does seem to me we'd be well-served if everyone, from the parents on down, adopted the mantra not that "learning is fun" but rather "learning is important, serious business."

What I observe in the parents of many of my children's classmates is a real disconnect with the learning process, with behavioral accountability, and with imparting a level of respect for instructors. Teachers, many of whom have been taught to make it all about the fun activities that have an educational twist, end up with a classroom full of un-focused, undisciplined, "yeah, whatever" kids. I walk into classrooms and the walls have stuff everywhere in a thousand different busy colors... fun-looking charts, fun-looking pillows in the corner, snowflakes hanging from the ceilings, bathtubs full of pillows.... all things that I'm absolutely sure kids love, but I'm not sure they know to *appreciate*. And for all the effort the teachers put into making things feel like *fun*, I don't know that the kids walk away from the "new and improved fun reading time in the bathtub with the pillows" having a higher level of reading skills than when we had to sit silently at our desks during milk break with our noses in our library books.

And when we had life that way... recess time was oh, oh so sweet. Because classroom time wasn't right on par with recess in terms of the fun we were having, we really savored it and appreciated the break.

It just seems like so many of our classrooms are on overload in terms of visual stimulation, interruptions as kids come and go to and from resource teachers for special help, etc... and I often wonder if we could take my son's 4th grade class and plop it back right into Mrs. Smith's desks in my old classroom from 30 years ago if they would learn more or less than they do today.

It's funny that this question is on here because I was just thinking last week that our kids' school seems to be teaching to the tests. The school recently held a "curriculum night" for the 4th grade classes. All the teachers came out and presented us with all of the things they would be focusing on for the year. Almost all of it was geared toward the NCLB testing. They were even telling us to be sure the kids don't have many absences due to NCLB as well. We even received a calendar with all the important testing dates on them.

This is all very new to me as my kids have never been in public schools in the US before this year (public schools have already been back in session for 4 weeks where we live). They attended public schools in Canada for a while, and I have homeschool them the rest of the time. The curriculum in our homeschool was very tough, so I felt that gave my kids a good foundation for learning. They were still required to take standardized tests every few years, but I never worried about whether or not they would do well. I simply taught the things that were in our curriculum of the homeschool program and used the test as a guide to correct weak areas AFTER the results came in. My daughter scored in the 97th percentile for the ITBS back in the spring of this year when she was in 3rd grade, so I know she has been learning all the things she needs to know. I had no idea what was even on the test, so teaching to the test is not necessary for a child to do well on it. I think it's easier for homeschool parents in this area though, because they are not included in NCLB and don't have the worry of being put on a needs improvement list or having funds taken away from them.

In Canada, things were very different than here. Kids in grades 3 and below aren't given letter grades, and as far as I could tell, no one took standardized tests. Attendance was encouraged, but there were no real consequences for missing school. I never felt like kids there weren't learning. One of my daughters was doing book reports and learning her multiplication tables in grade 2. The teachers were very on top of things and pushed the kids to learn as much as possible. They always got to have recess every day, music was only once a week I think, and there were lots of fun activities going on all the time. I felt like my girls were receiving a nice, well-rounded education when we lived there.

I am sure when all is said and done, the education they are receiving here will do fine for us. If there are things that are not being taught to them in school that I feel are important, then I will teach those things to them myself during school breaks and in the summer. Maybe we put a little too much of our faith in the teachers these days and not enough in our abilities to aid and supplement the education our children are receiving. Teachers are wonderful and I am extremely glad they do what they do, but ultimately it is us, the parents, who will shape our kids' future the most. It is our privilege and duty to do so.

I can tell you this much our School system as a whole used to be one of the best in VA and the US and they truly well suck now. I had to find out through the media that our Cluster of schools did not meet the NCLB Act standards only 2 elementary schools out of about 15 did. Says you can transfer, but its at the descretion of the principal and guess what she wont transfer students, its her first year I understand and all, but there are obvious problems at my son's school and its hard to decide what to do with him, they have made the regulations for homeschooling impossible for anyone without a college degree to home-school and I cant afford a private school. My son receives minimal special ed services for his ADHD and Dysgraphi (which is a fine visual motor skill delay affecting his handwriting) he uses a alphasmart to do a lot of his written work, he is entering 4th grade. We just got the results of the States madated Standrads of Learning which is what they base the NCLB Act sucess on and my son scored perfect on two subjetcts and missed 2 questions on the others and it says he passed advanced. he was in the Gifted and Talented PRogram last year, but some reason his teacher took it upon herself not to send him to the program on Fridays mid-year. My son is smart and he is a very bored child at school. The newspaper reported the background of my sons school and others, it has 85% of childrne on free or reduced lunch, there are 2% caucasian, 25% african american 65% hispanic and the rest is listed as other and that 4% are native speakers of english. I dont feel my son is getting the education he needs anymore, but my hands are tied, I will continue to do as I always have and challenge hima t home with worksheets I get off the internet, but he is in a no-win situation that the Government refuses to see is happening or they are and they are refusing to give the funding to help solve the problem.

I just cant comprehend why I have to have more than a HS DIploma to homeschool my child, or why if the laws state if the school is failing we can transfer out to a more appropriate placement for a child who is not failing. My son and 2 other children on our street were the only 3 children who did not go to summer school this past summer, I know of only 3 others in the complex who didnt go except for one who took a class that was doing a dinosaur diigm which is an enrichment class. Our complex has 700 homesites and they had to send in the same amount of busses this summer as they do during the school year 5 of them to pick up the kids, you tell me is NCLB working in FAirfax COunty Public Schools or any of them? I personally dont think so.

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I think NCLB is ridiculous. The teachers' hands are tied, and their frustration is palpable. My kids' entire curriculums are geared towards doing well on these stupid tests to protect the school. Teachers cannot expand on topics that catch the kids' interest, and the kids well know there is a lot of pressure on them to ace these tests. I make it very clear from here that I do not care about the test results, and as long as the kids are trying their best, it's fine and dandy. My kids are great students, and I will not put the load of school district funding on their shoulders.
We have a couple of schools whose reputations were always very good and they are now struggling because they have a higher percentage of special needs students and their test results are not at all balanced to reflect that. How is that helpful?
NCLB feels like a political game to me, and that makes me furious.

Although my daughter's school is rated excellent by our state, I am disappointed in how they are teaching to the tests as well. She is in eighth grade, and her middle school does not offer foreign language at all. As a Spanish major myself this is disappointing to me. In an internet age where the world is brought into your home through that computer, the world is becoming smaller and smaller. These kids should be learning foreign languages starting in elementary school. The school system's excuse - they don't have time for it!

My daughter has three extra classes - physical education, art and computer lab. In a 36 week school year , these 3 classes run 12 weeks each, overlapping the 4 regular nine week grading periods. She happened to be scheduled for gym the first 12 weeks - once she's done, she won't have any physical education at school for the rest of the year. I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

In order to concentrate the curriculum to help the kids improve test scores, the schedule includes two periods each of language arts and math. This is why the extra classes are limited to 12 weeks each, and foreign language has been eliminated. Although the kids do well on standardized tests, I am shocked at their lack of actual knowledge sometimes. Like many kids, my daughter has a my space page. She is only allowed to have it if I have the password and can monitor it at my discretion. In the area where kids list their favorite movies, tv shows, music and books, I was shocked to see how many kids say under the book category - I don't read, I hate to read, Books? You mean firewood, etc., etc. The thing that bothers me the most, though, is their spelling. It's absolutely the worst thing I have ever seen. I don't think my daughter has had actual spelling in school since elementary school. We had it all the way through high school with the difficulty of the words increasing with our age and grade level. I told her I can't understand that with two periods of language arts, they can't work in some spelling words. She is always asking me how to spell stuff that she should KNOW at thirteen years old. It really bugs me!!

Of course, the additional thing with that type of schedule is there are no study halls anymore which loads the kids up even more with homework. Sometimes I wonder if these tests are ruining the kids' educations instead of helping them!

I know most people (including school personal) do not like NCLB and the schools teaching to the tests. While I do agree with the majority I also think it's criminal to need this testing in the fiorst place.
Has anyone taken the time to wonder WHY there was a NEED for these tests????

Why is it that several years ago (pre the testing) kids were graduating from high school and COULDN'T READ????????????? Hense.....the testing....to keep schools on their toes and provide the education they are being paid to provide.

I place the blame for need of NCLB in two places. Negligent schools AND parents. Now, I'm going to step on some toes here but all I can say is "if the shoe fits...weear it".
If ALL teachers were in schools because of their desire to educate kids instead of watching the clock to be sure as to not spend a minute more in the classroom than what is REUIRED of them.
And of parents who ASSUME their kids education should be provided SOLELY at school and not knowing until grade period time their kid is falling behind in learning. Too many parents don't have time for their kids.

I say this all because I come from a different generation than most of you.
I come from a generation where kids just KNEW they had to follow the school regulations, and respect for the teachers. Classrooms were quiet and only the teacher spoke...until she/he called on someone to answer. If you wanted to speak or ask a question...you raised you hand quietly and waited until you had permission to speak. If you had a question or didn't understand something... the teacher explained until you DID undestand. If you were in quiet study time and had a question...you could step to the teacher's desk and they WOULD help you. Oh....and there were NO teachers lounges. The teachers were with their students the entire day....during lunch, recess, etc.
There were penalties if you didn't follow the rules and believe me....you didn't want to be on the receiving end of those penalties.
I lived in town so almost everyone walked to school. You went to the school in the district where you lived. We didn't start school until the day after Labor Day and got out the 1st week of June. Every year. We had spring break usually the week following Easter, and Christmas vacation a day or two before Christmas and until the day after New Years,

And I don't know of nor have I ever met anyone who lived in this area who COULD NOT READ.
The teachers went to school to teach. The kids went to school to learn, And if kids didn't put forth their best efforts to learn...there were consequences both at home and school. You don't find much of that now days.
I don't know if there were a certain number of school days required in a school year or not. We didn't have to make up any lost days....but truethly...I don't remember any lost days. There were no snow days...because everyone walked to school.

OH, IF WE COULD JUST GO BACK TO THE GOOD OLE DAYS....everyone would learn....reading, writing, arithmetic (hadn't heard of math back then), history, geography, language, sience, phys. ed., art, music, band, home ec., health.

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Barb


My GOD Bless our Country and our Troops, and rid the World of terroists.

Barb, I agree with you. On a global scale, we were losing ground with other nations in terms of math and reading skills, and in terms of scientific knowledge and understanding of world affairs. Obviously, they were doing something that we had ceased to do well.