Need a legal eagle for this one. Our shop guys aren't suppose to clock in until 7:00 a.m. They're punching in early, getting paid, but not starting until 7:00 a.m. While I can't find a statute, I don't think we can legally change their ticket because it's a legal record. Boss doesn't want to pay the additional hours, which often results in overtime.

Anybody able to navigate a federal website & find a link to a statute to prove the point one way or the other? Want to do the right thing as I don't like the pokey and I don't look good in stripes.

TIA

I have no legal background but here is what my boss did.
Usually when people came into work they would clock in. If they weren't supposed to start yet and were just standing around the boss would say either get to work or go clock out.
Maybe that would be incentive enough for them to wait until 7 to clock in, it sure worked for everyone at my work.

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Both the owner and production mgr arrive after 7 a.m., so this isn't an option. I have to fight fire w/ fire on this one and need something in black and white to prove my point. I am not comfortable with "Just change it. Nobody is going to sue us." Yeah, right.

Could they receive a write up for clocking in before 7 without prior authorization from a supervisor. If they know that they could end up losing thier job, by aquiring too many write ups, that my discourage them.

You put out a memo with the next pay check advising that the shift they were hired for is xx to xx w/ 2 15 min breaks and one one hour lunch (or whatever your schedule is), and that from 9/15/07 forward they will only be paid for that amount of hours (or that shift). Should there be overtime it will need to be authorized by a supervisor, preferably in advance. Also, several places that I worked would not pay any overtime if it were less than 20 min. (that way clocking in early or clocking out late really had no bearing unless you actually WERE working overtime!)

You should have each employee sign and date a copy to be kept in their personnel file. If they will not sign and return advise them that they are not complying with a company request and can be fired/suspended without pay.
If this is a union situation, you need to have this written into the union contract...

See, I'm of the opinion that everyone should clock in 5-10 before their scheduled shift so they can actually start work when they are scheduled....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I really need a written statute, clearly stating the legal status of those cards. This is a small company, the owner has lots of personal issues right now that limit his hours and involvement here. The production mgr is a nice guy, but the most worthless manager I have ever met in my life. I'm the only other "manager" and I'm not going to break the law just to keep my job.

If it is the type we have you/someone could take the time cards until a couple of minutes til 7am then put them out for the employees to clock in.

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Probably could. But these are adults who are getting paid to do their job. Part of their JOB is to clock in no earlier than 6:53 since we round to the nearest quarter hour. Clocking in @ 6:45 every morning results in a nice 1 1/4 payout of overtime and they know this.

Does your state have a Dept. of Labor? Why don't you contact them and see what they have to say....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

My guess would be I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer today.

You get a gold star for the recommendation. However, if I'm on hold longer than thirty minutes or have to press "1" for English, you will immediately be downgraded to a silver star.

Thanks.

I know that our company has a policy book in which it states that they will only be paid the actual hours they are suppose to work (in our case 7-3:30) unless they have prior approval. Upon hiring they sign that they receive the handbook and that they have read and understand this. So therefore when they clock in at 6:49 they are not getting paid until 7 a.m. and they all know and understand this.

Sometimes when we get focused on one issue--we overlook the most obvious of answers(I do it all the time )! I really hope the DoL can help you....If not, at least you can say you tried!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

where I used to work, we were not allowed to clock in until 4 minutes prior to our start time. It was part of company policy and if we did clock in early, we better clock out early as well or we didn't paid for the extra time unless we had prior approval. I would say make it part of your company policy and then have employees sign saying they have read the new policy

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I am now a homemaker, but within the past year worked in payroll compliance. I have a CPP (Certified Payroll Professional) designation. YOU HAVE TO PAY WHAT THE TIME CARD SAYS. You can contact the American Payroll Association (APA). Legally, the company must pay what the timecard says, if they don't and don't have employee authorization BIG TIME ISSUES result. I do not have my payroll books at home - but get your hands on the Payroll Compliance Guide or other APA publications - they will cite to you the exact wording.

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Mommy to Jake, Alexis, Abigail and Joshua, Wife to Matt

Here is what I googled... It looks like policy from someone business... Maybe you could implement the same thing.

A timecard is a legal document. Timecards must accurately reflect all hours worked. Misrepresentation of hours worked or forgery is a violation of the law. Misrepresenting hours worked or forging a timecard may lead to immediate termination of employment. It is the responsibility of the hourly staff member to submit their timecard to their supervisor for their signature.

Checked on some other things as well, but there are some timecard software that will only allow the people to punch in on their days to work, and won't allow them to punch in too early... Just google punching timecards too early

The company my DH works for -- if you punch in early, then at the end of the work week, if you've got 40hours, they tell you to go home. A lot of times DH has to punch in early because his job requires him to be there before some of the others. So at the end of the week, if he's hitting close to 40 hours, they'll tell him to clock out and go home early at a certain hour.

I work at a military base, but I am civilian and other employees are civilian. I don't have to clock in or out, but hourly employees do, they are NOT allowed to clock in until the exact time of their shift, not a minute late or early, they also have to clock out for each break and lunch. They must have visited their lockers, put their belongings away, used the restroom, put their lunches away in the break room and be ready to work as soon as they clock in.

For those interested, I talked with the State Dept. of Labor this morning. While there is no written statute pertaining to just time cards, they do fulfill the state requirement for payroll record retention purposes and would be admissible as proper evidence in any court or worker's compensation case.

When presented with the situation I'm currently experiencing, the DOL answer was very clear. Unless the company can unequivocally prove the employees are not working after they punch in, the company must pay for the early clock in.

Since no manager is out there to chide the children and remind them of the rules, my budget will have to absorb the extra cost.

Thanks to all who responded.

A side note to marilynk: You will be happy to know a gold star is to be pinned on your lapel today. I was on hold less than one minute and I didn't have to press "1" for English. Good call!

I don't understand why you can't make it a rule that anyone clocking in more than seven minutes before the start of their shift will be written up.

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I can make any rule I want. Enforcing it is the problem. The owner of the comany is scared he'll lose any of these guys because our industry is very specialized and the talent pool is limited. As I stated previously, the production mgr is a really nice guy, but worthless as a manager. Multitasking just isn't his thing and I don't have the authority to fire him, even though I'd like to do it or place him in an area where he could excel.

Until the owner and production mgr get on the same page & realize they are the ones who have to enforce the company rules, I have to follow the rule of law which states the time must be paid. While I agree the guys should be written up, there isn't anybody willing to do that. I'm not happy with the situation, but I am following the rule of law and it will stay that way.