I saw Flippers post and I need some help myself!!!!

My story---

My son (he's in kindergarten, too) just turned five. He went to school two days and was out for Labor Day. Well....the very first day that folders came home (every Friday a folder with his work and a "weekly update"), the weekly report said problems with "obedience" and "following directions" AND his teacher requested a conference!!! THE FIRST FREAKIN' FULL WEEK OF SCHOOL AND MY SON'S TEACHER IS REQUESTING A CONFERENCE!!! Well, as soon as I read this, I emailed her. She said that he is making noises in class (?), reaching over to other kids' desks, going through his desk during class messing with his scissors and crayons, not listening to her and obeying her and running to get into the front of the line.

Now...let's go back. My son only went a half a day of school last year (at a different school). Last year, he sat at a table with 5 other kids and had no access to his crayons, scissors, etc. So....this year they are at "real desks" w/a compartment underneath for his supplies and the desks are butted up against each other.

Last year he did great academically and both schools (last years and this year) have the same program (ABEKA). The papers that she is sending home all has smiley faces and checks and he is getting all the right answers. But, emotionally he seems to be having problems. He IS the second youngest in his class (his b-day is at the end of August).

I told his teacher that we were just going to have to work with him and I do NOT want to put him back in K-4 because he has already done that and done wonderfully in it. She said that right now, she wasn't thinking of that but that we HAVE to get him to obey and listen in class!! Granted, I understand that he needs to stop "playing" and listen but this is a huge adjustment for him and I honestly can't believe that in just 7 days of school I am getting notes home. I am pulling my hair out! My DD has been a model student and I have probably gotten more notes and issues with him already in 12 days of school than she has ever had and she is now in 9th grade!!!

OK Ladies......what do I do????? I need some help, too!

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Mom to a beautiful 15 year old DD and my handsome little man who's 6!

~~~GO DALE JR!!~~~

I would give the same advice I gave flipper. Become united with his teacher, get daily reports...it is not that hard for them to do. Punish when he does not follow rules, praise when he does, offer a reward for a week well done.

He is young but it would seem he could understand that he is disturbing the class when he fumbles around. He is setting up himself and those around him to miss out on important learning. Remind him to use an inside voice, quiet when others are talking/working, respect other people's belongings, lead when asked, follow when asked. These are pretty basic rules and it seems he should have picked them up in Pre-K. For me I would think the Pre-K did not do a good job if part of their program was not how to act in a classroom. Most of what he is lacking is social type school skills...it might just be he is young and needs more reminding.

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TLJ ~ Women United in Spirit

You don't have to get him to obey, the teacher does. I went through this 6 years ago with my DD, her behavior wasn't as distruptive but I felt like a failure, at a loss. She went to a school counselor who couldn't see any problem. The teacher complained that my DD didn't respond to time out. My DD would totally occupy herself and liked to get away from the other kids, oviously she needed another "punishment". I finally decided the whole "problem" was the teachers inability to deal with any student other than the perfect acting ones. DD was a bit imature and it lasted some into 1st grade but she now is a model 6th grader.

Pugsly, I'm giving you my take on behavior reward systems for young kids, such as yours, as I told Flipper.

Regarding the question of whether or not to reward expected behaviors, that's a tough call for some young kids. Obviously, some kids are NOT intrinsically movitated to do the right things (just for the satisfaction of a job well done, or because it's expected).

It sounds to me like your son would be making better choices if he was more of an intrinsically motivated kid. I think it's a great time to implement a plan where he IS earning rewards on a very frequent basis - such as 2 or 3 short periods of free time per day, or a different special privilege that he can earn during school regularly. For some little kids, keeping their behavior in check all week for the promise of an ice-cream cone on Friday is not realistic. Friday afternoon can seem like a very far away time -- even grownups would have a hard time holding out for a Starbucks coffee five days from now. We've become a little more of an "instant gratification" society than that.

A good behavior management plan would start out a child receiving reward time very frequently, and as the child buys into the system and does better and better, the incentives gradually become farther spaced out. (I'm personally not in favor of food rewards, but that's just me. I prefer very short breaks - free time as rewards). Maybe he could be earn a special role in the class - like class messenger? The teacher might have to create extra little trips for him so that this job really is a payoff to him. He might benefit from getting up and out of his chair several times a day to take a brief walk and to do something for the teacher that feels so "important" at the same time.

Many people have strong opinions against such a reward system, but I think sometimes it's the only way to change the behaviors of a child who is motivated by outside factors (rewards) rather than intrinsic factors (like a good feeling over his sense of accomplishment).

Has kindergarten changed a lot since we were kids?I remember kindergarten being soooo fun.Maybe he doesn't like the teacher.Could she be too cranky or just a boring person?

Kindergarten is work now. They learn to write more, math, language arts, science, plus my kid had 5 specials a week (gym, library, Spanish, art and music). Also had homework from time to time.

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I've never lied to you. I've always told you some version the of truth.

Sounds like they are really rushing these kids academically.
Thats too bad.

You're lucky the teacher is addressing it right away. I've talked to many moms over the years who don't find out there are issues until the first conference rolls around in November. Kindergarten has become what first grade was for us -- kids are learning to read, speak Spanish, do math, etc. I think kids who are on the younger side in their grade are at a disadvantage because there is such an emphasis on academics now. I've seen a huge shift towards Kindergarten academics in our school district in the few years between when dd1 went to K and when dd2 went. I wish you luck and hope that this just requires him getting used to a new situation.

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Cecilia

"We must love them both--those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in the finding of it."
Saint Thomas Aquinas

Today's Kindergarten is what we used to call First Grade... it has changed significantly. Sad.

Is this a newer teacher???

As I said in the other post, most Kinder teachers (who have done it for a long time) will say that big strides are made in the second month of school. It takes that long for the kids to adjust to the new routine and HUGE change in their lives.

Talk with the teacher and encourage him/her to give it time. If you go into the meeting with a proactive attitude and let the teacher know that you will work with the child at home, the whole year will probably go much better then if you go into the meeting with a defensive attitude.

Tell yourself that it's okay for the teacher to have let you know about this early on... work with her/him as a team.

I agree with the advice you've been given.
First, try to take a breath and put it in perspective. It's kindergarten. He's just a peanut! Some teachers and some children have an easier time with the initial adjustment to school than others. I'll also say he's young, he's a boy. Boys just operate on a different motor speed than girls.

That said, it does seem he needs to learn some self-control to be successful. How is his behavior at home? Does he rule-follow well, or tend to be distracted? If he is doing a better job with these things at home, your job will be easier.

Meet with the teacher, and make a plan. Keep it really simple, and focus on the positives. He can earn positive reinforcement for good behavior from both you & the teacher, though I agree to take it easy on the gifts/toys. Simple sticker systems rewarded with privileges (helping the teacher, a favorite card game with mom) tend to be pretty effective. The teacher may need to hold on to some of his supplies (scissors, crayons, etc) until he earns back the privilege of having them on hand.

We're all a work in progress, and he's just starting out. Hopefully the teacher will work with you in making his journey a good one!

I agree - Kindergarten is the new first grade.

This isn't at all a "blame" statement, lest anyone take it that way...

There was a time when kids were home with Mom until they went off to kindergarten. For those kids, playtime was their learning time. Time was spent in their own backyards collecting bugs and helping Mom do dishes and making tents out of sheets over the dining room table.

The "everyday" time a child tends to experience today is much different. The time away from home, in a group setting at a daycare where there are "group rules" and "group toys" and not as much alone time (or time with siblings, which is a different experience than being with other children, no matter how close the friendships). Yes, the things that used to happen do happen, but not in the same way they used to. Even sports is something most of us didn't grow up really *doing* until about 5th-6th grade at the earliest. It used to be that the only organized physical fitness activities we had were our PE classes where we played kickball. Now kids are in organized sports often at the ages of 3-4, they're in dance, they go to two years of preschool, etc.

So... what this means is that the experience bank a child brings to his or her kindergarten experience has morphed, and with the new "typical' backgrounds, the children enter K as a group that has largely had some experience with group behavior, classroom manners, knows their alphabet, etc.

There is a lot of debate among educational psychologists as to whether this is good or bad. On the face of it, it would seem good that a child capable of retaining recognition of letters and making associations with the sounds those letters make, there is concern that putting them in there before some of those foundational spatial, relational, and more abstract language (and math) concepts have begun to form naturally in a child's mind... sort of like putting the wood right down on the ground because it's level, but before the concrete has been poured.

Because most children are capable of handling the set of expectations they're given in preschool, those building blocks aren't really "missed" until K and 1st. That's when the sand starts to shift and things aren't quite straight anymore.

At least... that is one of the theories out there. Oddly, it is true that our average ability levels in core subject areas have decreased during the same era we began to "educate" them at an earlier age.

I think you should look at the teacher contacting you as a positive and work with her. It is still early, I bet things will be fine in a few weeks once he understands how things work in this particular classroom. Good luck!

You guys are the best!! I have been really worried about this since my DD never had any of these problems. I worried when I went ahead and put him in kindergarten when he was just turning five when school started. The principal even mentioned to me that he was really young to be going into K-5. But, after she did the K-5 evaluation, she said that he was more than ready so....we proceeded on. I am just worried now that academically he IS ready but on the emotional and "maturity" side, he may not be. But, I KNOW he will be really bored in K-4 again because he succeeded in that once before and if he had to do that again, I think he would really be disruptive primarily because of boredom.

Well, on to answering some of the questions you all had--His teacher: He seems to like her. She's older (I'd say in her 50's) and has taught kindergarten, first or second grade her entire career. She seems to be very soft spoken (last year his K-4 teacher was the exact opposite--not mean of course but kept the kids orderly--and I am not soft spoken myself). I think he may take her "calmness" as being "lenient", which is not the case. Jocemom made the statement, "You don't have to get him to obey, the teacher does". I am wondering if this may be part of the problem. Maybe she needs to take a "firmer stand" with him right now until he "gets w/the program". I don't know......

As for the reward system for good behavior---I don't want to start when EVERYDAY that he does good, I give him something! I agree with you all when you say do it every few days. Devinmom stated it perfectly with the fact that we are a society that wants instant gratification! I think if I do it on a weekly basis, it's not going to work. On Monday, Friday seems like a long ways away (even to adults). I think I will take it two days at a time at first. If he does good Monday and Tuesday, maybe he and I will do something special together Tuesday after school. My husband told him on Thursday that if he was a good boy in school on Friday (yesterday) that he would take him to the Lowe's Children's Clinic and let him build something. He said "he'd try his best". I got my first somewhat positive email from his teach yesterday yet it still was not great. She said he had a pretty good day but still kept making noises (I still don't know what noises my child is making!!!) and putting his hands on other kids' desks. But, he told her about going to Lowe's if he was good! So...I guess it worked. I guess I will give that a try again for Monday and Tuesday together next week. We'll see how that goes...

Momshops-you asked about his behavior at home. He's spoiled! But, then again, so is my 14 yo DD. It took us a long time (and four miscarriages) to get our little man. There is 9 1/2 years between both of my children. He has alway been pampered by all three of us. But, he's smart and can amuse himself. He follows directions for the most part and pretty does what he's told at home (though sometimes I have to tell him a couple of times--if it's something he doesn't want to do). Heck, my DD and DH are the same way so.... . He does seem to distract very easily, now that I think about it (unless it is something that he is really interested in).

With all that you have told me and thinking through all this, I think that time is the main thing right now. His teacher said that they aren't graded the first six weeks (Heck, I didn't even know that they got GRADES now in KINDERGARTEN...other than O for outstanding, S for satisfactory or N for needs to improve). In K-4, there were no grades, just letters. When my DD was in kindergarten, there were no grades! To me, this is just "pushing" school a bit too early. Anyway-the first grading period is just "grades" (the O, S, N--I think) for conduct (NOT looking forward to that report card) and after that they get graded in their "subjects". Let me tell you, kindergarten has changed since my 14 yo was there!! So, I guess I have another 4 weeks to get him "orderly" and "obeying".

I told her that I thought that going from 1/2 a day to a full day has been hard. He has more freedom in this class/school than he had last year. The transition seems to be hard for him. He likes his new school and though I am VERY glad that the teacher has brought this to my attention, I still worry that she is expecting too much out of him too soon. Well over half of his class was there last year. They know "the routine". I don't know whether she is telling me all this just so I will know what's going on or whether she thinks he is a "problem child". I just don't know!

I just hope and pray that this woman will work with him (us) to help get him adjusted and not label him as a "problem".

Thank you all so much for your advice, words of encouragement.....EVERYTHING! I greatly appreciate it all!! You all are GREAT!!!

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Mom to a beautiful 15 year old DD and my handsome little man who's 6!

~~~GO DALE JR!!~~~

I know you don't want to put him back in K4, but I highly doubt he would be bored with it. A lot of boys are emotionally not ready to start kindergarten at 5 years old. With him having an August birthday, I would seriously consider taking him out if the problems continue, and letting him go next year.

My son also had a late August birthday (Aug. 31st, and the cutoff for school was Sept. 1st) I agonized over whether to send him and decided to wait a year. He's a freshman this year and has been a straight-A student from the start. I don't know if that would have been the case if I'd let him start at 5 years old. The only thing I can tell you is that no one I talk to who waited to send their boys has regretted it.

Good luck!

Pugsly1234-

You could be talking about Fletcher. His birthday was 8/31, so he was always the youngest in his class. We had the same thing happen to us the first week of school. You know.. we tried and tried everything with Fletch. Rewards, Punishment, you name it.. my advice to you is to just let your child be himself as long as he's not beating other kids. It's hard to deal with all the stuff that the schools will throw at you, but when it comes down to it.. they want every child to be this cookie cutter image, and that's just not the case. We finally just let Fletcher be himself instead of trying to make him be something he wasn't for other people's convenience. When we did that, Fletcher kind of came into his own and everything was great. You will have to bear with all the less than perfect conduct scores though.. but they're well worth your childs sanity.

Another mother of an August 31 child here...

Our son's K teacher just anticipated from the beginning that he would struggle. Before she met him, when I was there on registration day (and he wasn't along because he was at pre-school) she made a little cluck-cluck of a noice and mentioned how *young* he was. Our cut-off date is actually seven weeks after his birthday, so he's not quite the youngest in his class... but close.

He's also the tallest.

She continually referred to his age in conjunction with his academic abilities, and always wanted him tested for special reading help. He *was* tested 2-3 times at her suggestion, and he never qualified! Now he's in 4th grade and considered a high ability learner. He's not off the charts smart, but he does well and gets along well with others.

Hopefully, once he gets the hang of the environment and the newness wears off it'll all be good!

HI!

My only thought with this is that all the material would be stuff that he has already done and did well on. If he hadn't already been to pre-school and done well, I wouldn't think twice about holding him back a year (and not even putting him in K5 until next year). That was my main reason for putting him in K4 to start with---to see how he acted with others. He did fine (though we had little problems here and there--nothing big at all). Everything that they have done this year has had smiley faces and checks on it. Granted, it's all review stuff but he is doing well academically. And, honestly, there is a HUGE difference in him from last year this time and right now. He HAS grown emotionally. Last year this time, he got upset everytime I dropped him off for K4 (even though it was just 4 hours). This year, I take him to the drop off at school and an aide is at the door and he walks right in like a big boy. Maybe emotionally he's just a bit behind and soon will "catch up" along with the adjustment time for a new school, new teacher/classroom, etc. ****Got my fingers crossed!!!****

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Mom to a beautiful 15 year old DD and my handsome little man who's 6!

~~~GO DALE JR!!~~~

You give me hope, fletchersmom! Thanks for your kind words and advice! I appreciate it! I totally agree about the cookie cutter image that teachers seem to think that kids should fit into. All kids don't though and that's the situation I am in right now. I guess I should just be prepared, as you said, for the less than perfect conduct scores!

Thanks again!!

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Mom to a beautiful 15 year old DD and my handsome little man who's 6!

~~~GO DALE JR!!~~~

Another 8/31 birthday boy here...though mine turned 17 this year. I held him a year, and he's always done very well in school. A big consideration for the boys, though, is temperament. My d/s was always a big guy, and I had to be certain we wouldn't be setting a bully loose by him being the biggest/oldest in his class.

Wonder what it is about that 8/31 birth date? Sure seems popular! Snowstorm-related perhaps??

I know ours was a belated Christmas present.

I would just keep an eye on him and work closely with the teacher. I am surprised that you are getting a note home so soon. I know that it always takes the little ones about a month to really settle in. The are only kids after all. I know that expectations are really high nowadays. It is so sad.

The only thing I would be concerned with is at the end of the year if he was emotionally ready for 1st grade. It only get harder. I had a friend that wishes she would have kept her son back in kindergarten instead when he got to 3rd grade he really wasn't emotionally/mentally ready for 3rd grade and got sent back to 2nd grade. She struggle with this. She told me on some level she knew he wasn't ready when he was first in kindergarten. I know that boys tend to be slower on the social level so keep that in mind.

Holding them back in kindergarten in so much better than when they get older. Good luck! I wish parenting came from with a manual.

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Melanie SAHM to my two wonderful boys! Brandon 9yr & Hayden 6 yr & Spencer 4/20/07