A TANGLED WEB - Tangled Blog

You can't possibly look at these pictures and not be simply amazed. It is 2007, not 807... TWO THOUSAND and SEVEN and yet still millions of women are trapped in this crazy method of dress. This is what happens if Osama wins (not Obama as Romney is confused about, but OSAMA.)

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After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her.

Mark Twain

and who are we to presume that women running around without underwear and flashing their v-jayjay all over is a better scenario?

Their society is older than ours. Who's to say we're right and they are wrong?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

If that is how they choose to live. Fine.

However, the goals of the radicals is to make you dress the same way. Hmmm, they don't care nearly as much about freedom as you. They are not nearly as understanding as you. Their women don't drive. They are covered in black head to toe in the heat of a desert country. They stone adulterers. They chop off the hands of thieves. They want to bring islamic law to the whole world. These pictures show the difference between living in the modern world and living in the middle ages. I much prefer the modern world. I much prefer my freedom. I'd like to keep it.

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After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her.

Mark Twain

and you obviously know little or nothing about Muslem/Islamic culture. So, I won't argue with you. It's obvious that you are a Republican, you support the war and feel that by taking away certain freedoms--we are "protecting" our freedom. I'm done.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

This is THEIR culture, their religion, their life. I agree with marilynk, I am sick of seeing our women showing all they have slut style. We dress our 10 year olds like they will be hookers next week and think they are "cute" then we wonder about the teen pregnancy rate.

And maybe adulters should be stoned in this country and maybe thieves should lose their hands. Obviously jail and counseling aren't doing a lot of good on the taxpayer dollar. For the most part, no one is responsible anymore, it's always someone else's fault and that cycle isn't good.

While we have freedom, much of that is lost. I sure wouldn't want to dress the way those women do, but I bet a lot of them wouldn't want to dress the way I do.

dl

Actually, I am a registered Republican but only because the libertarian party is a joke. I'm also simply a freedom loving American. I don't believe the current administration is flawless and I don't believe the war was carried out in the best way. I'm not filled with the hate that many of the radical and irrational left seem to be filled with, but I do have problems with how our leadership has dealt with the problem of Iraq.

I do remember September 11. I have actually read the QUR'AN. It is kinda funny how those on the "left" assuming you lean to the left, have so much support for such regimes. I guess women's rights are only for western women. Women unfortunate enough to be born in Saudi Arabia, or Iran are stuck with their cultures because their cultures are old. They have no rights even if they are forced into the restrictions placed upon them. They should have been born elsewhere if they want to live in freedom.

Our country was built upon freedom. Freedom of religion. I have no problem with people of any faith practicing their faith. What scares me is when the leaders of a faith, radical leaders indeed, but in the case of Saudi Arabia, actively funding such radicals, seek to deprive me of the same rights.

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After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her.

Mark Twain

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By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends

[quote=mycouponsgreg;2897697]
I do remember September 11. I have actually read the QUR'AN. It is kinda funny how those on the "left" assuming you lean to the left, have so much support for such regimes. I guess women's rights are only for western women. Women unfortunate enough to be born in Saudi Arabia, or Iran are stuck with their cultures because their cultures are old. They have no rights even if they are forced into the restrictions placed upon them. They should have been born elsewhere if they want to live in freedom.QUOTE]


I'm so far left you might not be able to see me where you are sitting However, I do believe in womans rights, and it breaks my heart seeing some many woman suppressed in other own countries. With that being said, I also don't think its the US job to patrol those countries and dictate their culture and customs. Those woman are not going to "freed" because the US steps in, its going to take an uprising and that is something that is going to have to be done within that country, not by outsiders.

I do believe most of the woman in Iran, Saudi Arabia would love the right to vote, drive, and wear what they want, but there are still a lot of woman who are pleased with status quo. You see it even when the move to the US and still continue wearing the berka, some just aren't ready to give it up yet.

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Chicago Bears!!!!
We are the Bears Shufflin' Crew
Shufflin' on down, doin' it for you.
We're so bad we know we're good.
Blowin' your mind like we knew we would.
You know we're just struttin' for fun
Struttin' our stuff for everyone.
We're not here to start no trouble.
We're just here to do the Super Bowl Shuffle.

Polve, I couldn't agree with you more. We want to live in a free world but it is not our job to bring freedom on our own. We should support those who share our freedom loving values but not spend the blood of our young needlessly. That is of course until those countries threaten our freedoms.

Whether or not Iraq posed a threat directly to our freedom is a debate that won't end for the next 100 years if ever. I don't know. We can all agree that Sadam was a horrid thug, whether or not we should have acted to get rid of him is something I don't believe we will ever be able to agree upon.

Our leaders have to make very difficult choices. Sometimes they will be wrong and sometimes they will be right. I'm re-reading:
Amazon.com: Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich: Books: William L. Shirer

If you have any interest in history, I can't recommend this book enough. I'm now going through it a third time. We must learn from history. We must not repeat the mistakes of our past. Hitler told everybody in the 20s exactly what he would do when he attained power. The forces of radical Islam have done the same exact thing. They tell us exactly what they will do to us. The leaders of Iran have been very clear about their goals. We can not allow them to achieve those goals.

If we love our freedom we must be willing to protect that freedom. Unfortunately, the cost of that protection can be very, very high.

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After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her.

Mark Twain

Not saying we should quite go to this extreme,but, something needs to be done in our country to deal with people who break the law. And like another poster said, I'm tired of seeing young girls dressed like mini hookers. I'd rather see them covered head to toe, than see all there assets hanging out all over the place.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I'm sorry---but what is our government doing for the oppressed and mistreated PEOPLE (not just women) in Darfur? In the Sudan? In Africa as a whole? These people are killed simply because they are THERE--and because the warlords want to!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Wow -- When did the rulers of MC start openly projecting their political and religious ideologies here? There has always been the subtle (or not so subtle) undertones, but this is starting to seem as though people are being baited --- hum ....

What's up Greg, not enough traffic ($$) for you lately?

There have always been and will always be evil people in our world. It's an unfortunate fact. Bad things were happening in other nations before 9/11... before our current administration...back in the 1940's...during the Crusades... there is nothing new under the sun.

And it's all extremely tragic.

As was stated above, we could debate 'til the cows come home whether Iraq was a threat, whether the people in power believed they were a threat or just went in for sport, and whether Saddam and OBL were long-lost blood brothers.

To me, that issue is what distinguishes the African issues from Iraq and some of its more hostile Middle Eastern neighbors. Every nation on earth has as its first responsibility the protection of its own citizenry from harm. If a country is in relative peace, stability, and free from outside threats, and has the financial stability to intervene in regions where tragedy is taking over, I think that is a good thing. It is interesting to me that we didn't enter WWII until Japan attacked us, despite knowing what Hitler was up to in that region of the world.

Not having survived that era, I truly cannot imagine what it would have been like to try to keep track of who was friend, who was foe, knowing so many nations were involved on so many sides, and that the only thing separating us from invasions and bombings was an ocean or two.

The immediate threat to our own stability is currently coming from a handful of hostile nations in the Middle East. If we ignore that and head for Darfur, I believe we leave ourselves wide open, unprepared, and unprotected. And the resulting actions that would be taken against us would render us unable to be of any positive use to anyone in any struggling, tortured African nation.

It's unfortunate, but again - there is nothing new under the sun.

MC is getting ready to open another board for political debate -- Election 2008 sticky post at the top of TC. Maybe they are testing the waters here first?

Maybe Greg can explain so I'm not speculating.

Sorry for going off topic...

I think a lot of the members here don't realize that this is how they would be dressing right now if we didn't invade Iraq when we did. They just don't understand.

Well at least she's smiling .

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Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Right, Just like the Indians(Native Americans) tried to force us to be like them before we stole their land

Right.

WE don't understand.

For so many women on here who support women's rights, I'm shocked at what a lot of you are actually saying. These women in Iran, Irag, etc. were born there and they have no other choice. What happened to all you free-thinking women?? These women are actually stoned to death when men have raped them! Why shouldn't another country step in and help them?

Who are you to judge how others should dress? Believe it or not many women CHOOSE to wear this type of clothing in the US and all over the world. Laura Bush can wear what she wants and so can the other woman pictured.

I honestly think its very respectful the way they dress,although I would not like to have to wear clothes like that in the desert heat, unless there were air conditioning.

Stepping in isn't going to solve the problem, there needs to be support from the inside. In the 1920's men in America didn't sit around having drinks in the parlor thinking, hmmmm maybe we should make a law giving woman the right to vote. National Women's Party was organized and used drastic tactics, going state to state to win rights. They picketed the White House, lead marches, were arrested, and held large demonstrations to have the 19th amendment added to the Constitution. Plus Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, not the only countries that have woman surpressed.....they just are the ones that have more oil. I personally would rather our government step in an help out countries that are HUGE violators of child trafficking and help crack down on kid brothels.

__________________
Chicago Bears!!!!
We are the Bears Shufflin' Crew
Shufflin' on down, doin' it for you.
We're so bad we know we're good.
Blowin' your mind like we knew we would.
You know we're just struttin' for fun
Struttin' our stuff for everyone.
We're not here to start no trouble.
We're just here to do the Super Bowl Shuffle.

He said RADICALS, not lumping Muslim/Islamic people together. And he's right. Radicals do not care about your freedom, they only care about spreading their word, their thoughts, their hate, their whatever. We should fear this yet, true to form, there are some political groups playing the "can't we all just get along" or "it doesn't affect me so I don't care" and the problem is, it will affect us sooner or later if we don't say no. They are already trying (remember the woman in Florida who wanted her DL photo in full cover?). They've already been successful in other areas. It's spreading already.

That's exactly right - many women choose to dress like that and feel much more comfortable being covered up.

The difference is that they CHOOSE and as freedom appreciating people, we accept that choice. However over there, women do not have a choice of how they dress. They must cover or face serious consequences, including death. And if the radicals have their way, no one, anywhere, will have a choice. Their way will be the only way.

I would be radical too if I had to live in that heat without an airconditioner.I say lets do without some things here in the USA and send them all over some airconditioners.

they do have air conditioning in the cities

I am surprised that a bigger deal wasn't made of this in the news that Mrs. Bush was wearing PANTS, which is against their conservative beliefs (and I'm surprise that the White House Staff didn't catch this before hand)...

Not all women cover their face, some choose to so (depends on how conservative their beliefs are), when my dad was stationed there, my mother would wear a scarf over her head and she chose to wear a black abaya (even though as a westerner she could have had any color she wanted) to blend in and not stand out, thus becoming a risk...

What people seem to forget is that men also dress conservatively... over their suits etc

you'd be surprised what's under the abayas and thoubs... in the city these people are wearing clothes that I could not only dream of wearing but would be too afraid to walk into the stores!

This is only public attire...

Do you know how you will be dressing for Halloween??

I was going to mention that too, but forgot. A lot of those women are wearing min-skirts, etc. under the robe. They wear the latest fashion, most dress better than we do over here. They only wear the robe when they leave the house.

Greg,

I understand your desire to inspire political discussions, especially as we approach the 2008 elections. I've always been into politics and believe that everyone should be informed.

But, I'm disturbed by your lack of discretion -- as someone who is a representative of MyCoupons.com, I would think you would have exercised a little more when choosing to post the link to the above site. It can be construed that you are promoting their commentary which I found to be a little offensive.

If you had wanted to truly discuss the pictures of Laura Bush, there are other avenues in which to present them.

As someone who paid my $20 back in the day, I would expect the employees and representatives of MyCoupons to act in a more professional manner.

Thanks!

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Greg is a troll on his own website,lol. Just kidding.
I thing Greg is doing an absolute professional job here.He allowed everything that was voted to be for the Cafe with no interferance at all.And I feel he should not be excluded from its benefits just because he owns the website. We ALL are free to our opinion. Great job Greg!

Yes, but when one owns/operates a business (and never kid yourself MyCoupons is a business), one needs to be neutral in most matters. I see the possibility for the administration's position on certain political beliefs to cause enormous problems. All it's going to take is a couple of posts or threads being deleted/edited that are in direct opposition of the administrations opinion.

I work for a third party administrator for injury claims--you know companies hire third party administrators? Because we are NEUTRAL. We do not know the persons involved we look strictly at the objective medical findings of the claim, we look at witness statements, we take statements from the injured employee--what we do not do is express our opinion. 3/4 of the time I am of the opinion that the claim should be denied--but because I can not find any evidence to support my opinion--I have to accept the claim.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I have not seen any posts or threads being deleted/edited that are in direct opposition of the administrations opinion. Don't holler till your hurt.

I'm sorry--but the "don't holler 'til you're hurt" is just stupid. Wouldn't you want to do whatever was possible and/or necessary to avoid a train wreck? Don't you try your best to avoid behaviours that could result in injuries to yourself or others?

Personally? I think MCGreg is just seeking attention and trying to drive traffic to the site. And if creating controversy is the way to do it, then that's what he's going to do. Any publicity/attention beats no publicity/attention.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Yes, I would want to do whatever was possible and/or necessary to avoid a train wreck. I would ban trains!
Personally, I think it matters not why McGreg posts on the forum.

I agree. I don't think Greg has gotten this far in business not to be open-minded when it comes to running MyCoupons and surely knows better and is mature enough not to close a thread simply because he doesn't agree with its contents.

Again, the point I was trying to make was lost....

It was about using discretion and professionalism. The topic was fine, the website he chose to link to, not so much. In fact, it was quite bigoted.

I value his opinion, not the prommotion of hate speak.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

And if the link had been to Michael Moore's site.... what then?

that's my point--NEUTRALITY. Greg IS NOT just a member, he is the administrator of this site!
And while he is entitled to his opinion--he should temper that opinion w/ a bit of tact and neutrality...

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

He should just be himself.

Oh, I don't know...

I presume he paid $ for this website, and actually owns it. For that reason alone, I think he gets to make that call.

I also know it's a risky business decision, as it could drive away some of the user base if they perceive it to be a hostile environment for those w/their POV. Then again, perhaps there is a strategy to drive away those on the left in order to make this a haven for the coupon-clipping right. The riches are in the niches.

That said, so far, I have not seen Greg attack anyone for their POV, or push his own POV on anyone. He's just thrown it out there for discussion with a link or two.

Bigoted to one is common sense to another. I am sure that had M.M.'s site been linked that some on the other side of the political spectrum would've felt it to be anything but filled with hate speech and bigotry. Personally, that is how *I* view him, though.

yep... even within our own American modern society, there are the Amish who choose to carry on their traditions to include their clothing... yet I do not judge them either... *shrug*

You took the words right out of my head! I was going to type the same thing. IMO, had it been linked to a liberal site, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now!

"Liberal"?

But does that make the point less valid?

What I mean is, since you say you feel a MM site contains hate speech
and an admin posted a site link to the MM site
and you raised concern about an admin linking to such site

would that make your point/feelings less veritable?

And if someone DID link to an MM site, how would you view that person, particularly if that person was an admin or president of the site you are a member of?

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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

I'm sorry I linked to the site I linked to, I should have dug around and found a more neutral source of a picture to comment on. I found the contrast between our first lady and the others to be dramatic. I was clicking around during the evening and literally stumbled upon the site, I've never been there before and admittedly didn't even read the content, my eyes were focused on the picture. I'll be more careful in the future.

Our position in the past was always one of being separated from the community and maintaining a very neutral position. I don't agree with that approach. I want to be a real person and a real member of the community -- not some voice from on high setting the rules and stifling debate. I can promise you that there is a place in the Cafe or in our new political board for all views! There will never be a post deleted for voicing opinions that are contrary to what I or anybody else on our team believes.

Actually, here's a picture I find more disturbing than the first one I posted.
Bush Joins Fight to Break Breast Cancer Silence

This is from the leading English Arab newspaper. Hopefully that is okay with everybody I understand her playing the role of "diplomat" and dressing in the costume of the country she is visiting. I don't know the circumstances that caused her to put on the veil, but I do know that I would not want my wife to do it. Maybe that's just me but I don't like the our leaders bow down and cave into the demands of this oppressive society. I know many of you are thinking that if we go to their country we should follow their rules -- I would rather we didn't even go, no matter how important the cause -- and hopefully you all know how much I care about fighting breast cancer.

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After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her.

Mark Twain

actually the answer is in the article itself

At the end of the meeting, the group presented Bush with a humble gift as an appreciation of her support and visit. They gave her a traditional scarf and abaya with a pink ribbon that is regarded worldwide as an international symbol for breast cancer.

I have traveled extensively... thank you American taxpayer for sending this military family to Europe I would rather respect the countries culture while I am enjoying it as I visit than stand out as an ugly pompous American...

Actually, I wasn't concerned about an admin linking to a MM site. I didn't look at Greg's link at all, but the poster who stated it was bigoted and inappropriate is passionately left-leaning, and query was simply to pose whether she would have lodged such a public complaint had the admin linked to a site many on the other side would've viewed as radical and hate-filled. My guess is that had that occurred the ones complaining about Greg would've reacted passively or positively.

The concern wasn't that anyone would post such a link, but that an [b]admin[b] would do so.

My thinking (capitalist that I am) is that the admin are free to do what they want. It's Greg's site. Had he posted a MM link, it would've left a bad taste in my mouth, I'd have begun to view this site as hostile towards my beliefs, and traffic to MC from my IP would've lessened considerably. He's free to post whatever links he wants, set whatever tone he wants, and let the chips fall where they may if he wants. He's the boss. I don't think there is any law that says he must remain neutral.

Would that be better for business? Who knows. Quite possibly yes. Would he lose liberal posters? Probably so. Would he gain the losses back in conservative ones? Over time, probably. Do most MC visitors even know the boards exist? I highly doubt it. They're pretty hard to find, buried several pages deep from the www.mycoupons.com homepage, after clicking community, and then scrolling down to a list of recent posts. There may be some big, visible radio button that I've missed, but as far as I know, there isn't.

By contrast/comparison, were he to set a decidedly liberal tone, he'd lose the conservatives here and more liberals would appear over time because it would feel like "home" to them. It really might be a good tactic.

It's his biz, and up to him to decide how neutral he wants to be - or not.

Yes, I believe I stated that in my post above.

Ahhh. I see. And as I suspected.
Perhaps that poster had the same feeling as you would have (had it been a MM site) , and was bold enough to express them. Law? Noone here was talking about laws. Good grief, does something need to be a law in order to have an adverse opinion about it?

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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

There is no official political slant. I honestly don't know and don't care which way our mods or other team members fall in the political spectrum. I may find out if they post some of their own views but that is up to them. Everybody is free to post in the cafe about any topic they feel warrants debate. Believe it or not, I am genuinely interested in learning about the differing views of people -- being exposed to different views is the only way we learn.

I could have done the same thing by signing up as another anonymous username and posted the same things -- nobody would have been the wiser. I didn't do that because that is not honest. Yes, I am responsible for the company but I'm also just another person who reads the boards and posts topics that catch my interest. Am I taking a risk by being genuine? Yep. Am I about the only person here that you know is a real person with a first and last name (aside from your small circle of friends)?

Actually maybe we need less debating and more shopping especially using coupon codes that start with MC, you save money and we give money to breast cancer research. What a deal.

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After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her.

Mark Twain

If Micheal Moore's site made bigoted, derogitory statements against someone's race, religion, color or sexual orientation, I would have said the same thing. And I'm not talking about the article on Laura Bush...I actually read through the site.

I just love it how people always jump to the "what if it was a liberal" thing, when you have no idea where the person is coming from.

I wasn't commenting on someone's political beliefs, but as to their business decisions....and, if it were my company, I would be careful as to where I direct people.

Like he said, how about we all get off the soap box and get back to shopping....

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Um, I wasn't implying that someone actually thought it was illegal.

I didn't think it out of line to mention that one had an opinion that the site he linked (which I still have not visited, and likely will not visit) was bigoted.

I just found it surprising that anyone would think that as the owner of the site, he needed to shelve his own freedom of speech so they could feel more comfortable hanging out at a website owned by a conservative. That's all.

Um, you certainly did so imply it with your 'there's no law' comment.

Why would you find someone questioning/commenting why an admin would post a link to what they felt was a bigoted and hateful site surprising? Especially since you yourself mentioned something similar (like at an MM site) would have left a bad taste in your mouth?

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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

"There's no law" is hyperbolic phrase. An overstated assessment used to make a point. I assumed most people had heard the phrase before, but perhaps not.

Yes, it would've left a bad taste in my mouth, but I wouldn't have complained about him making such references because he is an admin. If I complained, it would've been about the idiocy of the link. I wouldn't imply that he shouldn't feel free to express his opinions on his own site in order to placate me and my differing views.

ETA a word I left out

Perhaps yes, that was indeed an overstatement made by you.

But the implication was certainly there, which you denied earlier.

Well that's you.
However maybe the poster was using her freedom of speech in order to address a concern they had about the site.

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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

I guess I'm confused - I implied I thought that you thought there truly was a law against it?

I do have to say that I would be annoyed if I had formed emotional attachments to people or a site and it suddenly took on a different tone - different enough that I felt uncomfortable staying. I don't blame anyone for not liking the idea of an admin voicing political opinions that are different than their own.

Where I'd draw the line is asserting that he needs to remain neutral. He chose to be himself, rather than to hide behind a pseudo-name. I do give him credit for that.

LOL. Talk about confusing...
no wowitsdark. Go back and read the thread. You stated "I don't think there is any law that says he must remain neutral."
My feeling was why does something have to be a law in order to voice a different opinion about it?
To which you said you did not imply there was one.
Hope that clears up any confusion about my comment.

See, and that was my original point. It's nice to see you somewhat acknowledge that were the shoe on the other foot you would have a similar feeling to what the poster stated.

I see. Well I have a difference of opinion regarding that but do see your point..

__________________
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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.