This is the 2nd time the school has referred my son for the gifted program.
I took him in over the summer and they said he didn't make the gifted program due to his Speech, Last Month, Once again, They asked for permission to test him for the gifted program and Today I got the test scores but I'm SO confused. Now I did sign a paper just last month giving permission for him to start the gifted program, However, The test paper i got today didn't say he was in the gifted program. ACK too confusing. Could anyone help me *try* to figure out what all this means.?

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children- Fourth Edition(WISC-IV)-(10-15-07)

Verbal Comprehension Index Subtest Scale Score 95
Perceptual Reasoning Index Subtest Scale Score 119
Working Memory Index Subtest Scale Score 97
Processing Speed Index Subtest Scale Score 97

Full Scale IQ 103

Background
James records report for the first 9 weeks progress indicates that he made the following scores reported for 2007-2008 school year
Reading 91
Language 90
Spelling 97
Math 95
Social Studies 91
Science 90

It is felt by the examiner that the following results are reliable and valid estimates of Jame's currant level of academic functioning as measured by the WJIII NU and Cognitive functioning as measured by the individual index scores on the WISC-IV. It should be noted that the full scale IQ may not be the best summary of Jame's overall abilities due to the wide variance between the score obtain on the verbal Comprehension Index and the Perceptual Reasoning Index.

Test findings and Analysis
Jame's unique set of thinking and reasoning abilities make his overall intellectual functioning difficult to summarize by a single score on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children- Fourth Edition(WISC-IV)His nonverbal reasoning abilities are much better developed than his verbal reasoning abilities. Processing complex visual information by forming spatial images of part-whole relationships and/ or by manipulating the parts to solve novel problems with out using words are a strength.

Summary and Recommendation:
James is an 8 year old student who completed the WISC-IV.His general cognitive ability, as estimated by the WISC-IV,Is in the Average range(FSIQ=103).James's reasoning abilities on verbal task are generally in the Average range(VCI=95),While his nonverbal reasoning abilities are significantly higher and in the high average to superior ranges ( PRI=119).His full IQ may not be in the best summary of his overall cognitive abilities due to the wide variance between the score obtained on the verbal comprehension index and the perceptual reasoning index

It goes on to tell about things James can do to help like playing memory games, short and simple directions and repeating them. Verbal enrichment games.

Then it states, this is only part of what is needed for the placement and that more information as in behavior, psychoeductional functioning, medical reports(),Achievement test results and input from us and Teacher's ( His last 2 Teachers 2 grd and now 3rd grade are the ones that requested he get tested ).

If this means he didn't get in the gifted program, wonder what the heck I signed last month ? It said permission to place in Gifted Program. The other one I signed last year said Permission for Testing.
Can't call to talk to anyone at the School Board it took them nearly 4 months to get back on his testing this summer So thats out of the question. And already talked to the Teachers last year and none of them know anything about this testing and scoring, only when they get the paperwork back stating accepted or refused. As I said, Last year he didn't make it they said because of his speech, Which he has been in Speech services for 4 years now and will keep getting services due to his speech delay.
Any help would be appreciated.

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What I think they are saying is that the results are inconclusive overall, but based on that specific test, he doesn't qualify as gifted.

They must have more than just intellectual acumen as a qualifier for the program. For instance, if a child tested poorly on the IQ test, but had some extreme talent that was way out of the norm (like... perhaps he could play the piano extremely well despite never having had lessons and being unable to read music) that he might be recommended for the program despite a lower than expected IQ score.

My recollection of IQ scores is that 100 is average. I believe on the Stanford - Binet test (sp?), 60 would be pretty profoundly retarded, high ability is said to start at 120, gifted is 140, and the threshold for genius is 160. At least, that's how I remember it, but I may be off a few points here or there.

When I was in middle school I was tested, and I did not qualify based on the first IQ test they gave me. Like your son, I had a big variance in my best subtest score and my worst subtest score. I had an area or two where I was in the 150's, and another that I was 118, if I recall correctly. I may be remembering how they score them all wrong, but I do remember that I was almost considered genius in a couple of areas, but in another I was closer to average than high ability. That meant that my cumulative score kept me out of the gifted program.

The counselor looked at my scores and realized it was the subtest that required me to manually manipulate some things and put them in order very quickly (it was timed) that totally threw me off. I was and am a klutz, and can barely hold a pencil for a minute without dropping it. The test reminded me of that old game Trac 4, where you had blocks that were red, white, and diagonally divided into red and white. You saw a pattern of blocks for a brief amount of time, and then had to replicate that pattern using those red/white blocks. I just didn't have the agility to do it quickly enough.

In light of that, the counselor had me take the Stanford-Binet, as it relied far more heavily on intellectual and verbal ability, and didn't have that tactile-kinesthetic component. I passed that test with flying colors and got in.

All of that to say that I believe the tester is indicating that based on that particular test, your child does not qualify. The instructor finds it odd that there is such a wide range in scores between his best area and his worst, and that makes him/her speculate that it's possible that he might qualify based on some of the other criteria used by your school, but can't personally say for sure whether he should be placed there.

It tells me little Jimmy is probably an average and bright kid. But, there is a possiblity that his IQ score could be higher because there is a wide varience between how he processes information - perception vs. verbal.

One of my sons doesn't receive verbal information as well as visual information. His testing verified this, although we knew it from early childhood. His performance IQ was superior, his verbal was below 100. The school considered recommending him for a learning disability group. He is now a civil engineering student at a top college, so scores don't mean a whole lot to me now.

In our system, only the top 5% of kids are in the gifted programs. I believe you need to look at the WISC-IV percentile and compare his scores to other kid's scores to get any meaning from the raw score.


Two of my three were in a gifted program, the one with the wide varience wasn't. When I was young, it seemed wonderful to me to have my kids in a gifted program. Kind of like my parenting had something to do with it ... Now that I am older (wiser), I know some kids start riding a bike at 3 and some at 10. But, at 12, you can't tell the difference and that sometimes, the ones who started at 10 have more drive and ambition than the ones who learned naturally.

Thanks wowitsdark
I knew that the Avg IQ was 100, and He really didn't score much over this. It was the rest that was really confusing to me Esp since they had me to sign a paper giving permission for the classes. No Biggie either way , He's happy and loves to learn, gets really good grades( 1 B in 3 years ), So I really don't know if the Gifted Program will help or hurt him. I have heard the program for the gifted at times can make a child feel less than loved by other students. My 11 Year old did get in the program, But once she knew she couldn't stay in the same class with her friends, she asked to be taken out. However, I never got a report on her testing. Thanks again for helping.


Night, Funny you said this (learning disability group ) Because they did a IEP on him other than speech and it said he didn't meet the standard for learning disability group. I found that ODD they wrote that on a IEP, Didn't even know they did one for learning with the IQ testing.
It's not a biggie for us either to tell the truth and truth be known I'm not even sure James would like the classes I know my 11 year old wanted out the min she knew she couldnt stay in the same class her friends were in. He may not fully *Get* he will have to be placed in a different classroom with children he may or may not even know. Something James might not like. He's a bright little boy and his grades are always in the high 90's to 100 since 1st grade, He's made 1 B on his report card since 1st grade, However, His Teachers for the 2 year in a roll has requested the testing, Personally I don't find making A's a *Gifted child* Per Se. My 11 year old has made 3 B's in 6 years of going to school. (KWIM).To me it means they enjoy learning and neither one has shown any suffering from lack of being challenged in school ... I'm going to talk to James over the weekend and see how he feels about all this , It may be he will not like being taken from his classmates and placed with kids he don't know... I think its best to see what he thinks and feels about it all. Thanks for helping as well I appreciate it.

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Sorry wanted to ask this, So when they do a IQ test , the child must talk thu problems ? Is this why they said his Verbal Skills are low ? This is the reason they gave us last year as to why he didn't get in was because of his speech.. Just wondering about that...

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Who sent home the paperwork for you to sign for permission to test and/or permission to admit to the gifted program? That is the person you need to talk to. There should have been some kind of signed letter that came home with the forms. At least that is the way it is at our school. If I were you, I would call the gifted teacher or the people who do the testing at your son's school and talk to them. They should be able to give you more information. If they can't, contact the principal and ask who you need to talk to.

My son was tested for gifted last year but didn't qualify because he 'lacked motivation' <huh??!?> At first I was upset, but now it doesn't bother me that he is not in the program. At our school they pull children out of their regular class one day a week for the gifted class. By my son not being in gifted, he gets more time with the teacher and more regular instructional time, rather than having to make up all the regular work and do the gifted work on top of it. Several parents I know have pulled their kids out of the gifted program because it was so much work. My DS is only in second grade and I really want him to have time to just be a kid. If he was truely gifted and needed the challenge of the gifted class that is another story, but he's just smart, very creative and apparently not motivated -- I guess they didn't offer him M&Ms if he did well on the test <hehe>.

Sarah......mom to Jason & Devin

This site might help you understand some of the results so thought I would pass it on to you:

GT-World Frequently Asked Questions about ... Testing Our Gifted Children

My middle DS was in TAG for a couple of years (they had their own class) and after the last teacher I pulled him out and put him back in a regular classroom, we just encourage him with learning oppurtunites at home. When they wanted to test my younger DS I refused.

I think as long as kids are getting the guidance at home then they are fine, our TAG programs end at middle school here anyway, and I have seen many TAG students have a hard time adjusting to being around all the kids when they get to the middle school, because they had been isolated from everyone in the elementary school.

The test results are hard to follow a lot of the times. If you want a good explanation,see if you can speak to the person that tested him.

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In our school system there is a general beginning minimun IQ score. I think it is 125. If a child exhibits superior thinking, language, etc. (there are 7 areas of giftedness) consistently , but doesn't test well an override can be done to qualify they student. All these should be discussed in a team meeting involving parents, principal, spec. ed. director, teachers, etc. This is a federal law by which you school district must adhere.

Thanks everyone for the replies. But I'm a little confused, polalxa you said a Special Ed Teacher(s). Why ? He doesn't have any special needs. No ADD/ADHD/Autism/ Learning delays Etc. I know some special Needs Children such as ADD/ADHD Can be gifted, But I would think, In their case they already have a Special Ed Teacher to start with. Is this why they did a IEP on him while testing for the gifted program ?? If so I'm not too sure I like that being done with out them telling me they are testing him for Learning Problems. , As I have a son with Autism, But I know how a Mis DX can happen with the School System saying a child has this when they have something else. Is this standard for testing when they test for the gifted program ?

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In our school system (all are different though) The Special Education director also oversees our TAG program. They oversee all education that is seen as "Special". Something that is not needed or being done in a regular classroom....Whether it be for the Children with learning disabilities or Gifted children. Not sure I explained that well, but not ever school does it this way....

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My nephew is in the gifted program in his school and is starting to hate it. They just have to go for one class(all the gifted students) but it is just more work for him. He realized this last year but my SIS made him stay in it again this year(6th grade). She was always in the gifted classes(super smart). My son(same age) goes to charter school and they do not offer a gifted program per say. They operate on different levels of the grade and you are grouped accordingly. The lowest level(which is D-level in 6th grade since they only have 4 classes) is operating at State level where the other levels learn more. He is in A level and has been since 3rd grade and they are doing a lot of 7th grade work right now and will be on 8th grade stuff by the end of the year. My daughter(1st grade B-level) will be reading at 3rd grade level and done with multiplication to 12 and starting division by the end of the year). I like this school because all the kids in the class are on the same level. Nobody is bored and nobody is behind. The difference in the levels was amazing to me. When son was in 1st grade he was in the D level. They barely started multiplication to 2's by the end of that year. I wouldn't consider either one of my kids "gifted" and am not sure that is a title they should even place on it. So far my kids make straight A's without even working at it but I think the true test will be Jr. High School.