Dennis Quaid, wife sue drug maker - CNN.com


While I feel the importance of this lawsuit, I don't understand why?? The nurse who administered the dose not be included......... Yes, the vile's do look the same,and the same backgrounds but ............ WE (nurses) are trained to READ each med, Double check the vile before we calculate and administer ..... All the Quaids got from the hospital was an apology. Good God....... If that was me who administered that dose, I would have been fired and charges brought on.

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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I think the key to the suit is that at least three children have already died in the exact same circumstances. The fact that the heparin containers are exactly alike for different doses contributes to the chain of events in the mistakes, and the drug maker knew that.

But it is still up to Nurse to check and double check the dose and the med container....... I do understand the need to re container the heparin but..... I don't think all the blame goes to the drug manufacture . It wasn't a emergency live / die situation, all they were doing was flushing the IV cath. That there in my eyes is neglect.

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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I think it's because they're not interested in blame or money per se, they're interested in change. If the vials were changed, this wouldn't happen. The nurse has no authority to make that change, but Baxter does. Baxter knows there's a problem, but apparently it needs to be forced to make the change for the safety of the patient.

No, the nurse had no authority to make a change in meds, but she has the responsibility to make sure she is giving the correct dose. I know it has nothing to do with money, but changing the way the medicine is packaged .

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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If you know it has to do with changing the packaging, which you know the nurse can't do, why do you object to them leaving the nurse out of the suit? That would be like suing me, when I have nothing to do with the object of the suit!

Yes, the nurse is unable to change the way it is packaged BUT......... I am NOT objecting to them leaving the nurse out of the suit. That will be a whole other suit. She is also liable , they teach us in nursing school, to check and double check the meds we are giving and to calculate the dose........ Alot of meds look the same. It only takes a minute to make sure you are giving the correct dose and that it is the correct med.

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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The Epipen Jr. was changed in recent years to look way different from the Epipen (adult dose). Once the pharmacist gave me the adult dose Epipen for my son and I am so glad that I realized it before we used it! I believe the change was probably as a result of a lawsuit -- pure speculation.

Like IrishBl, I am surprised that the nurse didn't get sued (yes, different lawsuit?) or AT LEAST *fired* in the Quaid situation -- she does bear a huge responsibility in misdosing. I'm reading IrishBlonde's post differently then you are, truble, but don't want to put words in her mouth.

Edited: Oops. Posted at same time as IrishBl.

So you agree or don't agree that the nurse should be out of the suit? It seems like you're saying both. I guess I'm not getting your point.

The Quaids attorney is very smart. By NOT suing the nurse, s/he is going to be able to call the nurse as a witness against Baxter.

Now your putting words in my mouth. No your not getting my point at all............... I feel the nurse should have double checked the med and the correct dose. The lawsuit is against the manufacturer ONLY. Yes they should be sued but I also think something should be done against the nurse. If you are watching the news, NBC, they wanted to know why the hospital is not being sued also. In feb 2007 a safety alert was given to all hospitals, and the labels were altered to mark the difference. YES, they still may look a bit alike, but it is still up to the nurse to check correct meds!

WOW..... how hard is that? Wouldn't you want your child, family member to get the correct dose ?

I am not arguing on the label change, it needs to be done. I feel both the Nurse, hospital and the manufacture is liable.
But those will be separate suits

oops.... Thanks Cuthie for a bit of clarifying !

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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IRISH,
I have to agree with you. I am an RN and have given Heparin MANY times. It comes packaged 100u/ml, 1000u/ml and 10000u/ml. ANY NURSE KNOWS you need to check and double check even TRIPLE CHECK that medication and the dosing. I dont think that the manufacturer should be held laible. I think the nurse should... and I am NOT for suing nurses, HOWEVER in this case, she was WRONG WRONG WRONG!

In my opinion, it is CARELESSNESS on the nurses part. Those medications have been packaged like that for an eternity!

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GO TONY!!!!!!!!!!! # 20!!!

Thanks Julie!........ Nurses Unite!......... I am not for suing either, but come one...... it was a outrageous mistake..... one that could have been avoided, And SHOULD have! Karrie

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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I'm neither a health or legal professional but it seems to me that the bottom line is the manufacturer knew of the dosage mixups and had the responsibility to change the packaging to lessen the chance of such mistakes happening. I agree that the nurse bears some responsibility and I expect she has been reprimanded if not fired. My question is why didn't the company recall the meds and drastically redo the packaging. It seems to be such an obvious solution in light of the fact that 3 babies had already died as a result of the similar look of the dosage packaging.

I expect the Quaid's are beyond relieved that their babies will hopefully suffer no long term harm. IMO they have done the right thing by filing suit against the entity which bears the ultimate responsibility for what could have been a tragedy for their family.

Agreed 100%, Ana.

Irish, I have no idea where you got the idea that I was putting words in your mouth. On the contrary, I said I wasn't sure what you were saying. If I said I'm not getting your point, HTH is that putting words in your mouth?

While the drug manufacture does have some culpability the ULTIMATE responsibility lies in the hands of the medical professional who administers the drug! It is the nurse's responsibility to confirm not only that they are giving the correct medication, but the correct dosage. As a nurse you double, triple, or quadruple your medication before administering--and this is even in emergent situations (like a full code, or in the ER or the back of ambulance!!!).

The drug manufacturer can change the packaging all they want, but if the nurse does not check the label--it doesn't make a bit of difference.

There are many drugs that are spelled similar--and have different packaging and there are still mix-ups because someone doesn't read the label or the dosage.

All medical personnel who administer medications go through extensive training regarding how to administer medications. One of the first things they are taught is to READ THE LABEL to make sure you are giving what has been ordered or indicated.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Ok, I'll concede poor use of the word "ultimate" on my part and I agree that the nurse should check and check and check to assure that the correct dosage is being given but, the company knew there was the possibility of human error because of the packaging of this product.

We don't know why they aren't filing against the nurse or hospital and I don't mean to be snarky but I'm wondering what the reaction would be if they did file a multi-million dollar suit against all involved. IMO, they are in a position to not need any financial recovery, are grateful for the well being of their babies, and are going after the company which they feel has a duty to do it's part to correct a situation which was at least partially responsible for 3 deaths.

I think they should have filed against the hospital and the nurse personally. That is where the mistake was made.

I guess what my point is--and having worked in and been around the medical field most of my life--regardless of packaging human error can occur. It is the responsibility of the person administering the drug to READ THE FREAKING LABEL!!! And MAKE SURE before giving a medication. Furthermore--does the hospital not have some culpability? I mean, the stronger dosage PROBABLY shouldn't be stored in the NICU area. And if it wasn't and the nurse had to order it and the pharmacy sent up the wrong type of med, why wasn't that caught by the nurse? Because she DID NOT CHECK THE LABEL!!!!!

All Generic OTC medications--acetaminophen, ibuprofen, naproxen sodium--comes in similar bottles. Do you just reach in the medicine cabinet and take something without checking what you are taking? Do you just grab the nearest bottle and not at least LOOK at what you are taking? Would you just reach in the cabinet and give your child/spouse/parent whatever you grabbed without first looking at the label?
I don't--I can't imagine any reasonable and prudent person would!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

OH and just to clarify, the item in question is called Hep Lock FLUSH and it CLEARLY STATES THAT IN THE BOTTLE vs the medication that she used which says HEPARIN...
BIG DIFFERENCE.

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GO TONY!!!!!!!!!!! # 20!!!

The point of the suit, as I see it, is not that the nurse doesn't have ultimate responsibility, but that the company's poor choice of packaging makes it far easier than it needs to be for a human being to make a very human mistake. If there is some good reason for the company to NOT make the difference in meds far easier to spot, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, why wouldn't the company want to do whatever it can that's reasonable to help avert the mistakes that are going to be made? If you have the choice of making your packaging for different levels of the drug easier to spot, rather than harder, why wouldn't you do that? Doesn't it just make sense to make the mistake harder to make?

Well, here's a picture of a bottle of Heplock
http://www.appdrugs.com/ProdJPGs/HepFlushLg.jpg


Here's a bottle of HEPARIN:
http://www.taproot.com/blog/HeparinBottles.jpg

can you tell the difference?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I can. But those aren't the two bottles in question, so what difference does it make?

If you look at the DOSE on each bottehr, there is a CLEAR difference. 10u/ml and 10,000u/ml
HUGE HUGE difference. Nurses are not trained to look at colors of bottles or packaging.... we are trained to look at DOSES!!!!

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GO TONY!!!!!!!!!!! # 20!!!

I totally agree with Irish on this one....and the others who agree with her.

The thing I question in this whole thing is this: When this exact thing happened in Indy a few months ago it was plastered all over the news. Representatives from the company that makes the drugs stated that, although this was a nursing error and not THEIR error, they were changing the packaging immeadiatly. Wonder why they would announce that but not act upon it?

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Nutella,....
proving some of the best things in life come in a jar.

They did. The problem is that they didn't recall the old packaging, which is what was used on the Quaid babies.

here's a quote from the CNN article:
This is NOT because of mixup because the label. It was a mixup because NO ONE read the flipping label!!!!!!! It's not that hard to understand, it really isn't!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Yell all you want, Marilyn, you're not changing any minds with it.

Editing to say -- you're not going to change my mind with it.

I'm not yelling--I capitalized the important parts.


This is not a case where a change in the labeling would have made a difference, because no one read the labels.

Do you read the labels before you take a medication? Most reasonable and prudent people do. Most reasonable and prudent people don't just grab a bottle of medication and dispense it to their child without first making sure they are giving them the correct medication.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

OK, whatever you say.

Capitalizing the "important parts" isn't going to change my mind either.

yes, and I see that you either aren't willing or aren't able to address my question about whether you dispense medication to your children without first reading the labels.....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

MINE EITHER That being said, if those vials went through at a minimum 4 different individuals -- 2 pharmacy techs and 2 nurses -- there is more then a little wrong with the dispensing system. I hope the suit goes forward and its thoroughly investigated. As truble said in a very early post on this subject, not suing the nurse allows for the him/her to be called as a witness. At this point we're all working from suppositions.

The fact that you pose an immaterial and irrelevant hypothetical doesn't mean I'm going to respond to it.. And my decision to ignore your hypothetical is not evidence that I'm ignorant or uninformed or that my view is wrong.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

which is the fault of the hospital, and the nurse. A pharmacy tech has little eduction and/or experience--whereas a nurse usually has at least 4 years of college (with the exception of the 2 year programs for nursing). The nursing staff has MORE responsibility to check the tech's work (such as bringing down the correct medication).

You can bet that if a Pharmacy tech at CVS pharmacy handed the pharmacist a bottle of Oxycontin to fill an Rx for Oxy CODONE--that pharmacist would be in deep crap for not reading the label.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Right, so if our suppositions are correct all will be brought out by the drug manufacturer in their defense during the trial. I expect (although not sure) that the hospital and the nurse, who is likely covered under the hospital's malpractice insurance, would have offered a huge settlement rather then allow the case to go to trial. IMO, that would have settled nothing in the long run except put dollars in the pockets of the Quaids and their lawyer which apparently isn't the point of their suit. If it goes to trial hopefully the manufacturer and the hospital and its staff will accept proper responsibility and will all work together to avoid such situations in the future.

I still contend that if changing packaging would help to alleviate human error (or laziness or incompetence) in the future then the company has a duty to do so.

Hear, hear ana21! Well stated and I agree 100%. I think this suit is well thought out and a demonstration of altruism on the part of the Quaids.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/1121_heparin_wm.pdf

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

That's pretty incriminating! Demonstrates an awareness of the issue and acknowledgement that differentiating packaging and labeling could decrease the risk of medication errors......10 months ago.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

As a nurse myself for over 20 years, I feel for both sides..I would be devastated to make an error (and yes I have before), especially one of this magnitude.I also feel for the family who has entrusted us a medical team with their loved one's care and it hasn't been done..After reading the posts above, I feel most fortunate to be working in an environment which "readily supports" acknowledging errors to help prevent them from occurring again..Unfortunately in the medical profession- an error in our job- is potentially harming to our patient. An error in someone else's profession doesn't necessarily have that effect..If I read the above posts, I don't think I would ever have picked nursing as a profession and have taken that risk..It's a wonder there are a lack of nurses now.Fortunately, I work with a great group of nurses who are very supportive through thick and thin..I pray to God every day to be by my side and help me give safe care,as well being with my patients.. I know errors can happen..I've prevented many from occurring, but have also been "the guilty party" at least once in my career.