This is probably a bad idea for a discussion, but I'm curious how others feel about President Bush's plan to help homeowners who are facing higher mortgate rates in the next year or so when teaser rates are over.

Anybody?

I'm on the record for no bailout. Bad choices have bad consequences.

I don't just 2nd what you said, I 20th that and more ! I am SO sick of bailouts. I have yet to have anything given to me in the form of handout or bailout and I do ok. I wonder what my taxes would be if more people would be responsible and I could keep more of my money! I am SO sick of giving, giving, giving on my back as a taxpayer. Your last line is the exact truth.

dl

This falls under the category of "if it's too good to be true, then it probably is."

What would make a person/family think they can afford a $250K home when they barely make enough to cover their minimum living expenses? I have yet to grasp that....

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

It's the loan officers faults-they offered mortgages to ppl who really couldn't afford them, and made them seem affordable. I don't think it's a bailout at all-just putting a cap on interest rates. It will save a lot of ppl, and not just the ones getting the caps. Instead of ten houses in your neighborhood being foreclosed on, and sold at rock bottom prices, which in turn will lower your property value, maybe those 10ppl might be able to stay in their homes after all. So, which is the better solution?

I agree times 10! I HATE bail outs! I also hate that people "blame someone else", usually the mortgage broker. If you are gullible enough to believe them...it's your fault...sorry. It's not hard to figure out what you can afford once rates go up IMO. I don't think "freezing" the rates is going to help things. Why should someone who got into a bad loan get a low rate freeze? I made financially fiscal choices, is my rate going to go down because of it? No. I don't like the system rewarding people for making bad choice. It's like my HOA dues going up because of the foreclosures and people simply not paying...you get penalized for other peoples crappy choices. I've had enough of that crap.

Okay..off my rant

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

If they choose to bail out one, I say bail out all....ALL or NONE. Just because we work hard to keep up with our bills and pay on time without any help, why should we not get the benefit of better rates? My preference would be NO bail out for anyone or bail outs for everyone.

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Will someone PLEASE put a cap on Sears interest rates for me? I know I filled out the application, and I knew how much they were going to charge me..but really, it's not my fault. Why should I have to pay to line their pockets. Not fair, Not fair, NOT FAIR!

Sure, go for the bailout, and refund me what I played in fixed interest on a house I knew I could afford, please. Choosing to live within one's means should NEVER be punished.

You're right.

I listened to Clark Howard yesterday when a mortgage broker called the show. He said many of the people who took these loans honestly believed they would be financially solvent in two years and then able to handle the higher rates. Clark asked him if he approved loans for people the broker KNEW wouldn't be any better off in two years. The guy said, "Yes, I did. If I didn't loan them the money, there were more brokers in line waiting to sign the deal."

The problem with that scenario is that people who do make good choices do in fact, "get penalized for other peoples' crappy choices." We end up paying inflated interest rates to cover those people who screwed up.

I work with somebody who bought a house they can't afford. They whined to the boss and guess what? They got a raise. Wife came up preggers with #3. When the employee discovered how much family coverage was going to cost (2 kids already on the state program), they opted for Medicaid because somebody they knew showed them how to use the system.

I'm sick and tired of bailouts, I'm sick and tired of whiny people who make bad decisions and I'm sick and tired of the dang politicians thinking the gov't is the freakin' answer to everything.

Fiscally responsible DH and I will now return you to regularly scheduled programming.

I disagree. When DH and I were house hunting/mortgage shopping a few years back, FIL lined up a mortgage broker for DH to talk to. I was in another state at the time, and DH was doing a lot of the leg work here. Well, this woman kept talking about 80/20 split, and how we wouldn't pay PIP if we did it this way. We told her OVER and OVER "NO!!!!! Tell us what VA rate you can offer". Right back to the 80/20, and how we would pay no PIP with it. Well, we had done our homework, and knew with a VA loan, there is NO PIP!!! This woman was either ignorant or just trying to get over on us. We educated ourselves on the different loans. This is a MAJOR investment,MAJOR!!! So, is it the loan officer's fault when someone doesn't check into the details of this loan, or any other loan??? NOPE!!!

Personal responsibility, we really need to get back to that.

Sorry if people lose their homes, but, what about the people who were responsible enough to research and get educated about their loan, and then for some reason (job loss, death,etc) they can't pay their mortgage. Who is bailing them out????

I heard a report last night that even if they cap the rates (a 5 year cap, from what I heard), these people won't be able to afford it any more in 5 years then they can right now.

I am NOT for a bailout,either.

ETA: We dumped the Mortgage Broker, and went right with a local bank.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I go back and forth with this "bailout" thing. I can see how it will help the people involved, but where do the 'bailouts stop"? I am talking about "bailouts" in general, not just this housing mortgage situation. We have "bailouts" in the form to help people for low income housing, foodstamps, free health insurance for low income people, it just goes on and on. I feel myself being resentful about all the government sponsered programs every time I have to write out a big fat check to the IRS every April 15th and and big fat check to the State taxes every month for 8 months out of the year (payment plan on the state, cant' afford to pay everything at once). Where's MY "bailout"?????? It's not like we are rolling in money, we drive vehicles that are 1996, 1999 and 2001, we have no car payments. We make smart money choices, we both work (me just part time) we're very responsible. We have a house paid for and the house we live in we only have less than 8 years until it's paid off. We pay all our bills, but by no means live in luxery. I don't seem to be in a very good mood this morning, LOL. I think it has to do with shelling out $277 to get my van fixed yesterday and another $250 to get a new circuit breaker box installed in our house last week. I want a "bailout" too. In the form of lower taxes. Sorry for the rant.

We have a VA loan and have been in our home for just over 4 years. Two years ago, we thought about refinancing and had someone come out to the house to talk loans. They shoved the type of loan down our throat that now has lots of people in trouble. In fact, he had come to our home with loan paperwork already filled out ready for us to sign. I am glad we did our homework and stood our ground. At the time, it made me think of the typical car salesmen that everyone thinks about...the pushy guy that wants commission.

No one should be bailed out, in my opinion. If they want to help homeowners...they should help us all...give us all a little cut on our interest rates because we own homes. Not pat someone on their back because they can't/didn't think of their future finances. We had to turn down three homes because they were out of our price range when we were looking...if everyone would use their brains before doing things, it sure would make things more plesant for the rest of us.

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AMEN, Sister!

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Mary

I am in the 'no bailout' category. It all goes back to personal responsibility -- you shouldn't buy things you can't afford. I know some loan officers are/were very convincing, but it's up to the buyer to do the math and figure out what they can *really* afford. When we bought our current house 1 1/2 years ago, we were 'pre-approved' for twice as much, but we still felt this house was at the top of our price range. Never once did we think about buying a much more expensive house because we had taken personal responsibility and done our own math to decided what we were comfortable with.

Just my two cents..........
Sarah.....mom to Jason & Devin

I have little sympathy for people who knowlingly bought more then they could afford; but IMO, if we take a broader view, a little help for some of these people who perhaps got caught up in bills for medical emergencies or something simlar isn't a bad thing. I'm very concerned that a bunch of home repossessions will affect the housing market for a long time and like many of us, the majority of my financial worth is tied up in my house. I am very very lucky that the value of my house has quadrupled since I bought it and can afford to lose a little equity but there are many who bought when housing was at its highest and will suffer if they have to sell because of a job relocation or whatever. I have no sympathy for people who overbought or treat the equity in their house as an ATM but there are exceptions to those people. JMO

I agree with most here, no bailout!

There is a reason you had to initial and sign those 29 pages of "jibberish" that you may have chosen not to read or understand when you closed on the loan/house.

If you signed your name, you should have read and understood the information. If you could not understand it, that's what lawyers are for!

When I hear about this plan it just annoys me to no end!

If others are "bailed out" then cut my interest rate by a point or so too.I may be able to better "help the economy" with my extra monthly money..

I Totally Agree and will sign up for the privilege.

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

I'm all for the help if they are going to help everyone. I can easily afford my mortgage, but not my medical bills. The stress from them is worse than the stress of my medical problems.

I agree, I don't like it one bit!

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A agree too, the buyers made the mess now deal with it.

My old neighbor has refinanced her house about 3 times in the last 4 years because they just can't afford their payments. Their original was the 80/20 deal and then when they had equity they went conventional, but rolled all of their debt in the refinance. Then the next year they did it again. So now they owe more than it's worth and they can't refinance anymore and the debt is right back.

They were talked into a house with a morgage they couldn't afford to begin with which is why they rely on credit cards so much and now it has snowballed and they can't get out of the spiral. I feel sorry for them, but wouldn't bail them out, they made the mess and understood what they were doing. I do see how loan officers are really pushy and just like car salesmen, they can talk you into anything and that's what happened to them in the beginning. They saw this house and were so thrilled that they were told they could afford it they didn't think of the consequences.

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"A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer

No health insurance for sick kids, but Bush is happy to provide welfare for homeowners that make bad choices. Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

*stands up and applauds*

I guess Medicaid, food stamps, WIC will never be enough handouts to cover costs for the poor. I am not happy about the mortgage thing either, but I certainly don't think we need to put more money into these other programs either. As a tax payer, I am tired of paying for ALL of this.

Four years from now, the issue will be the same. People are not going to want their rates raised, houses will go into foreclosure, etc, etc.

By that time, there will be someone new in office, and it will not come down on Bush.

Here here...I am sick of paying for ALL of this as well. I know just as many people who milk the public system because they are lazy as people who are in the mortgage joke

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I agree I am also sick & tired of paying for everyones bad mistakes I have never asked for help or been on welfare & dont see any reason others have to have it unless seriously disabled but I know so many who are on disability & work for cash it irks me & I also know people who sit on welfare for years why the gov. pays for them to go to school & they do nothing with the schooling why are they wasting my tax dollars on this junk build my kids new schools instead they go to schools that are falling in & I am sick of paying for headstart programs for only low income kids why cant my kids go if its for one it should be for all of them!!!

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mom of 3 greats girls

Bad choices have bad consequences pretty much sums it up for me! I have no sympathy for people who don't want to accept responsibility for their poor choices.

As far as the health insurance issue goes, President Bush isn't against health insurance for the truly poor children in this country. He believe's in private medicine, not the federal government running the health care system. More then half of the children that this bill was going to take care of already have private insurance, they want to move them to the goverment & that would be the begining of goverment controlled medicine. You what to make a mess of something let the goverment take control of it!

I agree! I not only have no sympathy but I'm bloody sick and tired of having to pay for other people's mistakes. Really sucks...

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Looks to me like a lot of us are sick and tired. So, for those of us who give up the luxuries to pay for necessities like health insurance, here's my suggestion:

1. Eat chocolate

2. Take a nap.

3. Repeat as necessary.

Merry Christmas to all of you.

I agree, it's frustrating. Welfare was not designed to be a way of life, but, a way to better your life. I know people who have used it for its intended purpose, and gotten off of it. I also know others who use it , and use it, and use it. The disability thing reallly has me going, too......a friend of ours is on disability. She's "afraid" to work. WHAT??? Yes, no kidding, and actually gets a check every month from disability. She's not afraid to shop....just afraid to work. Another thorn in my side is the people who conceive a child, and then don't take finacial responsibility for it. For instance, not claiming the father on the Birth Certificate, then collecting welfare. Uh, NO......make the man pay up. And, while we're at it, how about we have some sort of "pay back" system for people who do get federal assistance. If they happen to get back on their feet, a little pay back might be nice. I know another couple, the kid is on State funded health care (Dad and Mom both work full time) and gets free lunch. Now, they sold a home, and were able to buy their next home outright, except for about $30,000. Also, the son is on free lunch. I'd love my kids to be on free lunch. It's over $30 a week for my kids to get lunch. Yet, this person is constantly going thru the drive thru somewhere.....uggghhh, just really got me ticked over this whole bail out issue.

this is why I tend to vote republican. They seem to be a bit more for less government intervention, and pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Anyway..........

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I missed him calling for an end to Medicare and Medicaid. When did he do that?

LOL, too funny! Great advice!

I think it should go case by case because I think in some cases people who had solid jobs with projected increase in increased income got kicked in the teeth by business shutting down. I know in our town that over 7 business/industry has shut down in the last year. In a lot of cases both the man woman lost their jobs. With no chance much of either getting the income back they lost. I see foreclosures every day of people I know who personally had paid extra on their home loans to get it ahead but with the loss of jobs plus the loan, they have no way to keep up. And it is so sad, because what is left on the loan showing in the paper is like 30,000 or so...and they are losing their home....
Truble I thought I was going to end up calling you last week..lol..I ended up at St. Marys with a dead cell and 7.00 in my name..roflmao...the school broke Michaels leg but I did not end up staying longer then 24 hours..whew...and of course the day I left Richmond was when all the snow come thru that Wed. You guys had a dusting I had inches at home..the ambulane driver/emt was happy to bring me home though...they had not seen snow since '96!

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"Cast upon this globe without physical strength or innate ideas, incapable in himself of obeying fundamental laws of this nature which call him to the supreme place in the universe, it is only in the heart of society that man can attain the pre-eminent position which is his natural destiny. Without the aide of civilization he would be one of the feeblest and least intelligent of animals.."
Jean-Marc-Gaspard Itard

While I'm not generally for a bailout for those who made stupid choices, I hate that those who made wise choices are feeling the pain of those choices even without a bailout.

As an example, a relative of mine in Michigan (Detroit area) needed to move. They paid $160K for their house a few years ago, put on an addition, and at this point have about $220K in it. At the time they added on, that addition bumped the value up to nearly $300K, so it was a solid investment... supposedly.

Last summer when they needed to move away from that area, they put it up for $280K (the market was slipping)... and after a few weeks dropped it to $270.... and then $260.... and then $230..... and then $220K (and they owe pretty close to that amount on it...).................... and the next day, a house that was built in 2002 (theirs is 1996) that had two more bedroooms, two more bathrooms, and 600 more sq. ft. went up for sale... for $180K! It was a foreclosure.

Now they're stuck with a house on a street with four nicer homes for sale for far less than they can afford to sell theirs for. They ended up moving away... and renting that house out since they can't sell it.

They didn't screw up. Their neighbors did... but they are paying the price, regardless.