I noticed on jovia's post that a couple of people suggested that she hang out with men she works with; having lunch with them, hanging out after work, etc. I know MY husband would have a huge problem with me hanging out with other guys.. I'm just wondering how other women would feel about their husbands going out to lunch with women or hanging out with them after work. I know *I* wouldn't like my husband doing that one bit!

Holly

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Forgiveness is love in its most noble form. -Anonymous

I dont think women should hang out with other men and vice versa. I just think that it can start innocent but there is always that chance it will change. I do know lots of people do this and it works out, but I have also seen the opposite happen.

At my DHs last job, he hung out with a single woman and a gay man. The 3 of them were always together. They went to lunch all the time. We all went to the gay guy & his significant other's lake house. He left that job 9 years ago and still keeps in semi-touch with the woman. The guy has since retired and he's lost touch with him. I even send the Christmas cards to the woman and she sends one to our family - this year it said for DH to call her. It doesn't bother me in the least. She's just a good friend and she's not his type.

On another note, I had a guy-friend at my last job (9 years ago). We never went to lunch, but we goofed around and told jokes, etc. We still email each other jokes when we get a good one! It doesn't bother DH either. I'll tell him when I get a joke from my friend. This guy is married with 3 kids.

DH & I totally trust each other and don't get jealous of stuff like that. My DH travels a lot. If I worried about that stuff, I'd literally be taking years off my life. Besides, if somethings going to happen, worrying about it and being jealous won't change anything (and could possible cause problems in a relationship). We've been married 18 1/2 years.

JMO,
Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

I hang out with male friends from work. Definitely at lunch time, sometimes after work. My husband is always invited to the after-work things, but sometimes chooses not to come with us. I don't see a problem with it unless you know you have a romantic interest in the friend, or he has one in you. My husband sometimes hangs out with women friends without me. Doesn't bother me.

I've just seen it turn really ugly, really fast. What about a married woman going out to lunch alone with a guy? Is that ok? I don't know, I guess I just feel it would open a door that doesn't need to be opened. Besides, I wouldn't want anyone thinking something was going on that wasn't.

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Forgiveness is love in its most noble form. -Anonymous

I think it's just inappropriate to really have friends of the opposite sex once you are married. My husband doesn't go to lunch with women he works with even though they've asked. I trust my husband, but I think it could give other people the wrong impression, and just to avoid the appearance of anything inappropriate.

Why do you care what other people think? Especially if it's not true?

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

That's a great question! Well, first of all, I try to set an example for other Christians, and since the bible tells me not to be a stumbling block to other people, I take it very seriously. Plus, I would never want to do anything to hurt my kids or my husband, and rumors can be VERY hurtful.

Holly

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Forgiveness is love in its most noble form. -Anonymous

If I didn't have male friends, I would have no friends at all! When I was working outside of the home, I would have lunch "with the guys". My DH and I worked at the same company and we had the same friends. He never cared. If I was still working outside the home, I would still hang out with my guy friends.

I do not go to movies and/or dinner with my guy friends without my DH though. It sucks because I miss doing things with friends but evening things or date like things are not okay because of hte "talk". My DH wouldn't care and I wouldn't care if he did it but the we know a lot of people around us and rumors would spread like wildfire.

Lunch with the opposite sex I see no problem with and luckily, neither does DH. He has gone to lunch to female co-workers...big whoop. A lot of the people from work are there anyway.

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I'm not married but consider myself am.I wouldn't have lunch with a guy at work if he asked me to go out to lunch with him but if I were sitting in the employee break room and a guy sat down next to me to have his lunch too, well theres not much I can do about that.
My bf would never do it without my permission.If the girl is hot, no way is he allowed to get a ride from her or anything else.But if the girl is someone that I know is not my bfs type I don't care.
But never hanging out with after work!

Interesting. Luckily, there's never been any rumors about us - that I know of. Luckily we both feel the same way. If one felt differently, it would probably cause a rift. But, that's why it works with us. The same the other way - if neither spouse wanted the other to have friends of the opposite sex, then it would work just as well. Differences are what makes the world go round!

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

There are always exceptions to the rule but in general it is not a good idea. For many reasons....

My best friend is a man and DH doesn't have a problem with it. He got DH a job where he worked and later ended up being DH's boss. Then DH got double promoted and he worked for DH. They haven't worked at the same company for several years, however. I have known this guy since I was a child and we have pretty much grown up together. I am close with is family too. He currently has a serious girl friend (I hope she is 'the one' for him) who lives out of state. She knows about me, I know about her and no one has a problem with it.

I also sometimes hang out with some guys I went to high school with. They live in another state (I moved away for DH's job), so we don't see each other often, but we do have a great time when we get together. DH doesn't have a problem with that either -- in fact, he encourages me to get together with them. Some are single, some are married. DH is welcome to hang out with us, but he usually chooses to stay home and take care of our kids rather than trying to find a babysitter so we can both go.

DH has friends who are women (used to be a co-workers, but have since left the co.) that he goes to lunch with quite frequently. It doesn't bother me a bit, in fact, I like hearing about how they are doing.

It's all about trust -- either you have it or you don't.

Sarah.......mom to Jason & Devin

I so agree

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Yup. I agree, that's the bottom line.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

I respectfully disagree. I trust my husband, and he trusts me. But we don't put ourselves in sticky situations. For instance, I trust my kids to not go with strangers, but I don't leave them alone in a mall. Maybe it's the strangers I don't trust. LOL

You know, one thing I like about this board is that people can disagree about something in a respectful way. Isn't it great when you can have a debate on a mature level?

Holly

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Forgiveness is love in its most noble form. -Anonymous

I am with ya Haynes94 I trust my dh but that dont mean I want him hanging out with a bunch of women either

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mom of 3 greats girls

I trust my DH and he trusts me. We both have friends of the opposite sex and have been married 20+ years with no incident. If both of you are happy at home and your "needs" are fufilled there is no reason to look elsewhere. Hell, I even used to bowl on a team with my single male neighbor. DH would come once in awhile, but at the time our kids were young and he usually stayed home with them. It allowed me to get out of the house once a week and do something I enjoyed but DH did not really like to do. There was never any question as to "what might go on".

It's not unreasonable to think that we can have friends of the opposite sex and not have it turn into a sexual situation. I think that if it does happen, the foundation of the original relationship was not that strong and one or the other partner may have been "looking" without even thinking about it.

Did that all make sense??

My husband trusts me and I trust him. Neither of us has a problem with the other one going to lunch with friends of the opposite sex. I wouldn't go with the same male friend every day, because there will always be dirty-minded people thinking their petty little thoughts, but other than that, I don't see what the problem is.

I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't like it if Sparky did it.

We actually have been in this situation and quicker than sh*t it got way too involved. Thankfully my hubby is a man with a conscience and he could not handle not telling me that the girl was getting way pushy. She would find call when she wasnt at work and he was.... and she would over share when it came to personal info.

Needless to say, when he told me, I took care of the situation and neither of us will allow ourselves to fall into that type of situation again.


Edited to add...... I reread my post and didnt want to seem like I am a wench and dont talk to people I work with at all. In fact, years ago.. there was a guy at my work that was funny and great to work with. I told hubby about him and then invited him over to dinner. He turned out to be the guy friend and babysitter that we have ever had.

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Sell crazy some place else, we are all stocked up here.

The one thing that struck me reading all the responses was woman saying that they didn't mind their DH hanging out with other woman if they were not his type. When I meet DH 12 years ago I wasn't his type at all!!!! He always dated older woman who were short (under 5'5''), brown hair, low maintenance, wild and care-free. I am totally opposite standing at 6' long blond hair, high maintenance, a worrier and 11 yrs his junior. His ex wife use to tell me that I would be the last person she would of ever thought DH would of ended up with. So just because you think someone might not physically be your DH type, you really never know.

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Chicago Bears!!!!
We are the Bears Shufflin' Crew
Shufflin' on down, doin' it for you.
We're so bad we know we're good.
Blowin' your mind like we knew we would.
You know we're just struttin' for fun
Struttin' our stuff for everyone.
We're not here to start no trouble.
We're just here to do the Super Bowl Shuffle.

No, not one-on-one (except for his woman boss -- that is sometimes a necessity).

I'd trust no woman with my sensitive and caring DH who is in touch with his feminine side AND a terrific husband. Many women find these two traits very attractive and HE is the one who chooses not to spend time one-on-one with other women.

I'm very thankful that he is so thoughtful because to me, it is thoughtfulness and his love of me that keeps him from getting anywhere near this type of situation.

Never say never -- and yes, I do speak from experience because in the past, he was not so thoughtful for a year or so when other, unrelated things got tough at work and he leaned on another co-worker woman... Yes, things escalated to emotional involvement between them. He ended it quickly but it sure tore me up and still does at times.

Generally, I don't think it is a good idea for married men and women to hang out with friends of the opposite sex. Although I agree that trust is a big part of marriage, I also know human nature. Even a trustworthy person can fall. So the way I look at it, why put yourself in the situation in the first place? I know I am not comfortable with my husband socializing with a woman. And I agree with the "type" comment. I think most men can be persuaded by any woman if she tries hard enough. I know that sounds terrible...

I have to hang out with men all day The people that work for me are men! In the business I'm in (tires) I deal with mostly men all day. So no my DH doesn't mind.

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Brenda

GO #24 JEFF GORDON

My DH has had several women friends at work who have shared too much on a personal level. We joke about it - like what is it about him that make co-workers feel like he's their shrink?! He's also had a coworker come on to him before. He's also had a high-"class" (if that's possible) prostitute come on to him in a very pushy way at his hotel once. He tells me about all of it. I still think that if you trust your spouse fully (and he is fully trustworthy), it doesn't matter what anyone else says or tries. He will turn them down - and then we joke about them. He has also traveled alone before with women. When I worked I had to travel alone with my male boss. It hasn't ever bothered either of us. I think if I (or he) became a high maintenance worrier who started making demands that he/I not do it, then we'd have a problem...because the first question would be, "why, dont' you trust me?"

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Then they're not trustworthy, are they?

I just read someone's post about their bf was a man, but not their husband... That seems REALLY strange to me that you can have a best friend that is not your husband (definately talking opposite sex here). If the other man is the best friend, why not marry that man?

Maybe the other man (bf) is gay. Just a thought!

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!

I am married and one of my very best friends is a man. I don't refer to my husband as my best friend because he is so much more than that. I don't feel like the term "best friend" give justice to my relationship with my husband. My DH is the most important person in my life and he knows it.

My DH understands, respects and supports my friendship with Jay. My DH knows that I was/am a bit of a tomboy and most of my friends have always been guys. He has no problem when I go out to lunch or dinner alone with Jay. My husband trusts me and I would never do anything to hurt him or our relationship. Oh, and Jay is not gay.

My husband also has several close relationships with women. These are women that I know, like and respect. I trust my husband and I trust these women. I have no problem when he goes to lunch or dinner with these women.


I don't care if people say things or if rumors are spread. As long as DH and I are honest and open with each, those people can't hurt us.

Just curious...

For those whose husbands go out with other women like that (or who go out with men yourselves), how does that play out in reality?

Say it's Tuesday afternoon and you've just walked in the door from picking up the kids from school. Joe calls and says, "Dinah, wanna go to Applebees tonight?" You say, "Sure - let me fix supper for Tom and the kids and you can pick me up at 7:00."

And then you make spaghetti, set the table for your husband and children, take a shower, dry your hair, grab your purse, and then watch for Joe while they all settle in to watch re-runs on Nick at Nite...?

When you say "go out with", is this the sort of scenario you're talking about? Or just that during the workday when it's time for lunch, if the other person who wants to go to Taco Bell in your office happens to be a man, you don't let that deter you?

Like that . . . the first scenario I don't even do with my girlfriends.

Or if Dave wants to stop across the street for a quick drink after work and I don't have any particular family obligations that night, I might go. Usually I just want to go home after work, though!

Good point - you DO have to worry about what people are thinking - and not just the people observing the friendly lunches, but the actual other person(s) involved. I've been on the innocent end of thinking all of this was friendly and haramless, and then I realized that the other luncher was on a TOTALLY different page, and was was thrown when he realized that I wasn't - by then it was awkward and embarassing, and hurtful for him.

Just because your intentions are innocent, don't assume that the other person's match up with your own. And even if they start out that way, things can change.

I see nothing wrong with going out to lunch or after work with a small group (even DH and 2 or 3 women), but I wouldn't like the idea of one-on-one co-worker lunches happening too frequently. Could be a slippery slope. Probably wouldn't be, but who wants to find out for sure?

I agree with you, Devinmom - especially if it's the same opposite-gender co-worker you're spending alone-time with.

Gossip is wrong, and while it's not good to live your life worrying about what gossipy people think, everything we do in public leaves an impression, and that impression molds perception and reputation. Even if nobody gossips about something, it doesn't mean you haven't caused several people to wonder what's going on... and that might effect their opinion of your integrity.

Not the same thing at all, but if I saw my alcoholic friend go into the liquor store at 11:30 PM and come out with a brown bag, it'd be cause to pause, ya know? It's possible he was just getting some non-alcoholic grape juice, but all too often, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

If I saw a the mom of a classmate of one of my kids out with a man, just the two of them, sitting at an out of the way table and having glasses of wine, laughing and talking and obviously enjoying each other's company very much, I have to admit it would make me wonder if they were having an affair. I wouldn't go tell anyone that I wondered that, but it would cross my mind.

It's just a seed of doubt I'd rather not risk planting about myself in the minds of others whose respect I'd like to maintain. My kids don't need people thinking that about their mom, etc.

I do have male friends and co-workers that I really admire. I just looked at my inbox and of the last 20 personal emails I've received, eighteen of them are from men! Some from people I'm serving on a board with as we figure some things out, a couple sent out from husbands of my friends dishing about some time we all recently spent together to our group of friends, etc. I don't avoid all males or anything. I just don't place myself in situations that might appear to have any intimacy with a man who isn't my husband... physical, emotional, or otherwise.

my thoughts................a friend is just that >>>a friend<<< if there's even the slightest inclanation of more than that it's not just friendship.

DH and me can go out at any time with anyone for lunch/dinner etc..heck he is always off somewhere fixing something for one of the girls that work here..or they are out with one of the boys and I am home..neither one of us have a thing to worry about, plus it helps we don't give a rats behind what someone might think about our life, uhh..until they are paying my bills and buying my groceries they can just slink off somewhere...the best friend I have ever had was a ex of mine and we hung out ll the time, we went to the grocery store toghether everywhere..he stayed with us..David had no issues with it at all..most people would have been screaming and ranting insanely at just the THOUGHT of that...but we are very secure and no we have no issues in the trust dept.
I know when some of the workers come here they were like you leave the house with your husband home with us??? I had never thought about it..but that is the reasoning behind having inhome help isn't it???? Come to find out most of the houses they have worked in the woman would not leave unless her dh went with her..whatever...it never dawned on me...and I told them so...the last thing DH and me want is a affair..we don't have time to take care of what we got, how in the world could we squeeze in more people..roflmao

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"Cast upon this globe without physical strength or innate ideas, incapable in himself of obeying fundamental laws of this nature which call him to the supreme place in the universe, it is only in the heart of society that man can attain the pre-eminent position which is his natural destiny. Without the aide of civilization he would be one of the feeblest and least intelligent of animals.."
Jean-Marc-Gaspard Itard

My personal opinion is that it's inappropriate unless the man and woman had a previous friendship or if it's cousin, childhood rriend, etc. People of the opposite sex who become "intimate" (platonic) friends almost always develop a sexual attraction.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I have to disagree with your last statement. Personally, I have had male friends my entire life and I can honestly say that I have never had a sexual attraction to them. Maybe I'm a freak of nature though. I know my DH doesn't have any attractions to his friends either. I just find it hard to believe that we are both the exceptions....

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

i think it's fine for married people to have friends of either gender as long as there is nothing sexual/inappropriate going on and both halves of the married couple are ok with it

that doesn't mean i go out drinking or go out on 'dates' with guys while my dh sits at home, or anything like that - far from it lol but imo there's nothing wrong with going to lunch, to starbucks, shopping, or chatting on the phone with a friend who just happens to be male

I'm sorry if you've had that experience, but I never have. I don't see how you can say people are "intimate" and"platonic" anyway -- that makes NO sense.

Hanging out with the guys at work? What a great idea!!

I am flabbergasted at the notion that eating lunch in the cafeteria or grabbing a cup of coffee with aopposite-sex co-workers would put so many marriages at risk. I wonder if the talk around town is that CJ is having extramarital orgies...given that I eat lunch with about 5 guys everyday. LOL Truth be told, we talk about politics, sports, and technology....occasionally kids....but we never gossip or rag on other people....which is really nice.....I love guys!

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I totally disagree with your last statement also. There are lots of male/female friends who don't have or develop a sexual attraction. Maybe sometimes or occassionally but I think "almost always" is way wrong.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

I have several male friends that I would go out with for lunch from time to time. Dh also had several female co workers he would lunch with. We have no problems. I thinks it a matter of trust. Who cares what other people think. YOU know nothing is going on.

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Freedom Stands...Because HEROS Serve

Mary

I don't hang out with men. My husband is old fashioned and would be very jealous.

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We're off to never never land

I need to clarify what I said. By "hanging out" I take that to mean that the two people are often together they go out by themselves etc like best friends.

I see nothing wrong with two people going to lunch out for drinks etc. Where I see the problem is "hanging out" that means to me that two people are doing things as a couple would or as two best friends would.

And no I have not had this experience I just know from common sense and life experience that two people who are "hanging out" together most likely do so because they have a lot in common and feel some sort of "attraction" whether it be mental, spiritual, or whatever.

My husband and I are very secure and we have friends of both sexes but we both agree it's not right for two people to "hang out" together if one if married.

I hope this clarifies things. I don't disigree with what a lot of you are saying it's the term "hanging out" that means different things to me than to you.

__________________
The political system is broke and it's a joke.

It makes perfectly logical senxe unless you equate sex with intimacy. I am intimate with my mother, my sisters, my friends in many different non sexual ways. I am sorry you have never experienced that kind of closeness with anyone.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

This has been a good thread. I've enjoyed reading everyone's different views on this. I agree with the two major points of view...I agree that yes, you have to have trust in a relationship...I also agree with the view about why put yourself in that situation in the first place? Things are different now than they used to be when I first met DH. I worked with alot of men and yes, I'd go to lunch with them or a group of us would go out to happy hour after work. There were a few male friends of mine that DH knew I wasn't interested in "that way" so he was fine with me going to lunch with them. There were also some that he didn't like and trust. I'd have to say that after we got married, that kind of changed. I quit work and DH didn't (and still doesn't) like me to have male friends. I don't see what the problem is, but out of respect for his feelings, I don't do it. But I'm really not in a position to have many male friends now that I've been a SAHM for a long time. At AA meetings, I'd meet men who would would want to go out for coffee. With them, I found out the hard way that one thing sometimes leads to another. Not a good idea for anyone who is new in a 12 step program. Which is why I just usually go to women's only meetings. I do like the company of men, but I know that DH and my 16 year old son wouldn't like me hanging out with them under any circumstances. My son doesn't even like it when I mention another man...if I say someone is good looking, etc. I do think that women and men can be just friends. A pastor at our local chuch gave this sermon about not putting yourself in that situation...how it can lead to temptation...etc. Shortly afterwards, a male friend of mine who goes to this chuch cut off all contact with me. It kind of hurt me, but I understand he had to do what he had to do. As far as caring about what anyone outside of my family thinks, I don't. They can think what they want. As long as I know in my heart that I'm being honest and not doing anything inappropriate. That's all that matters to me. I do miss my male friends, but I'm at a point in my life that there's not much I can do about it right now. It will be interesting to see what happens once I enter the workforce again. ~Lisa

IMO, "intimate" means sex. By your description, I certainly do have that kind of relationship with men and women, none of whom I've felt the need to have sex with. Too bad you have never had that kind of closeness with anyone.

And "best friends" have to be of the same sex to you, I guess? And if you're gay-- do all your best friends have to be men, then, to be safe?

Yes, mental or spiritual. Which doesn't mean sexual unless you tend towards thinking the worse of people.

Now you are just trying to pick an argument. I have made my points and I am not going back and forth with you for petty reasons.

This should make you feel better. You are right and I am wrong. You are wise and I am not.
Okay?

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I agree that "intimate" and "sex" and in no way near the same thing. You can be "intimate" with someone and not have sex and you can have sex with someone and have it not be intimate.

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Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

I agree, too, that intimate and sex are not the same. One is a "type" of the other. Sometimes. I started to say that all sex is intimacy, but not all intimacy is sex. Then I realized that for some, sex is simply an encounter and there is nothing intimate about it.

I think that for me the bottom line is that regardless of the level of trust in a relationship, there are some places it's safest not to go. My husband and I have had what I'd consider "intimate time with friends".... when we've gotten together with another couple or two or three, sat around the table and talked and laughed and shared in a way that is very comfortable and easy, just because we have things in common and enjoy those friendships. It's a different experience than if it were just us girls chatting it up.

Some of those same men I have contact with in a work-related capacity. Because of this, I'm apt to visit with them on the phone alone, or even be in their offices with the door shut as we go over things that others shouldn't hear. They are men whose opinion I value and who I respect, and whose company I enjoy.

But... it would feel very wrong to me to go out alone with any one of them. Spending time with someone does often open the door for emotional intimacy and emotional dependency. That's not a matter of trust so much as it is an awareness of human nature. I assume many people who ended up having affairs didn't see the feelings for the other person developing until it was too late.

I was on a small email list with someone once who admitted to the group that she realized she and another man had been having an emotional affair. She had had to work with him on a project for a volunteer group they belonged to, it took a lot of late hours, and they both had a shared enthusiasm for this thing they were both invested in making work. Before long, it seemed her husband was resentful of this planning committee that was taking all of her time, and the other volunteer guy, who lived in her neighborhood and was able to carpool to meetings with her, was in sync with her because they shared the same major interest. The more neglected her husband felt, the more she confided in her volunteer friend, and then he felt comfortable sharing disappointments he felt in his own marriage... and before long, the emotional intimacy was there. A girlfriend pointed it out to her - that at their meetings, she always sat by him, they always whispered and seemed to share private laughs - and the friend asked point blank if she was having an affair. She denied it, but couldn't get it out of her mind that she had been behaving in a way that made someone question her loyalty to her marriage. They'd never so much as held hands!

Long story short, that was the wake-up call she needed and she started driving herself to her meetings. Then the almost-boyfriend didn't get what was going on, why she wouldn't talk to him, etc., and it was obvious to her that he was trying to find a way to regain time with her. In the end, things got very ugly.

This was a woman who never believed herself capable of having an affair. She didn't go looking for one. And physically, she didn't end up having one, but when she looked back at how close she came when she realized that her girlfriend had recognized the twinkle in her eye as a crush (when she hadn't admitted to herself that she had fallen for him), well... she never would have believed herself capable.

When I worked for attorneys, a lot of times we would go as a group out to eat. Once in a while I'd go out for lunch with the attorney I worked for. I never thought anything about it.

But I think if it was a continuous one-on-one out to dinner, movies, etc., no, I don't think that's right. Even the person you trust the most can be put in a situation where he/she might be just weak enough at that certain time to let something go further than it should.

Actually, I felt you were picking the argument with your snide comment about me not having close relationships.

My question about gay friends was a legitimate one. If you're worried about romantic entanglements, should women avoid friendships with lesbians that might mistake friendship for romantic interest? If not, why not -- how would that be different from straight women being friends with straight men?

Straight women wouldn't have any interest in a lesbian in a sexual way or romantic way. They could be friends with them without any problem. Just like a straight women could be friends with a gay man without any sexual tension involved. It's different from straight women being friends with straight men because both could be attracted to each other sexually.

No, the straight woman wouldn't be interested in the lesbian, but the reverse might not be true. If the problem is attracting romantic interest, why would that be any different from me not having the slightest interest in a male friend, but he being interested in me?