I hope some of you can give some idea about how to handle this situation. My youngest daughter is 9 and in 4th grade. She has a small set of friends (5 or 6 girls) they have been friends for years with no problems. Last year she met a girl in her class and all was fine, wee had a few play dates, she went to the girls birthday party sleepover, they got along great. Suddenly my daughter started coming home from school in tears telling me the girl had told everyone not to play with her at recess, not to sit with her at lunch etc. Yet each time I would see the girls she would be SO nice and tell me she and my daughter had sat together in art or played at recess and never even hinted at any nastiness. Finally it ccame into the classroom and she would ask my daughter a question and when my daughter would say shh, she would holler out that my daughter needed to be quiet and stop talking. We worked that out with her teacher and thought this year would be better. Over the summer, one of my daughter's friends called to say that this girl was spreading rumours about my daughter and telling everyone not to be her friend. I asked my daughter to call the girl to try to work it out and when she did she got a voicemail, she left a message asking the girl to please stop being so mean, could she please be nice. We never heard anything back from the girl or her mother. This year they are in different homerooms but still see one another and the same types of things are happening again this year. Suddenly my daughters best friend refuses to speak to her while they are in school. We are good friends with the family so we asked her parents to see what they could find out, their daughter said well, it's just that then said this little girls name...but she wouldn't say anything more. My daughter is in tears nearly everyday, no one knows of anything she has ever done to this little girl and the girls is always nice when any adult is around, it's when its just kids that it really gets bad. I am at my wits end, I have no idea what to do. Her parents refuse to be involved and I think the only thing I can do is go to the prinicpal. Any suggestions?

Talked with the principal and it seems this girl has been doing this to several little girls in the 4th grade. I've talked with my daughter and told her there isn't a whole lot that can be done other than the things we ( and the school) has already done.I may be taking the wrong road here but my daughter decided maybe the girls just needs a friend and has asked to haveherover one Saturday afternoon to play. the jury is still out on this one, I told her I'd have to consider it and talk to my husband when he gets home tonight. For now at least things have calmed down a bit.

Yes, she sounds like a mean girl and very manipulating. You say she is so nice when adults are around; pours it on thick for the adults so she is seen as so nice. Unfortunately, it sounds like she has manipulated your daughter's friend(s) too. She probably has that quality to talk kids into things that they normally would not do or think. She is either jealous of your daughter or thinks that your daughter doesn't "fit in" to what she thinks is cool. I wish your daughter's friends would wise up and dump her, and try to see what she is really about, but some kids are so convincing. I really feel for your daughter, and hope this situation turns around for her.

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!

Well, I think you are doing the first step:looking for advice. I think I would look at Dr Phil's site and see if there is some practcal information there. He is huge on no bullying. This girl is a bully, plain and simple.
This is a hard lesson to learn at 4th grade. Make sure your daughter knows you understand her problem and you are working on her behalf. How big is her school? Do they have a no bully policy? If they do, there should be an active response team. Is there another school? If she has been best friends with the same circle of girls, I would each and every parent and have a chat. I would also can the girl's mother and chat. Can you start her in a new activity which her "friends " do not do? Here is a parrt of a bully guidelines for teachers program-
Bullying…
Usually has three common features:

it is a deliberate, hurtful behaviour
it is repeated
it is difficult for those being bullied to defend themselves
There are three main types of bullying:

physical; hitting, kicking, taking belongings
verbal; name-calling, insulting, racist remarks
indirect / emotional; spreading nasty stories, excluding from groups
Bullies

Are often attention seekers.
Will establish their power base by testing the response of the less powerful members of the group, watching how they react when small things happen.
Find out how the teacher reacts to minor transgressions of the rules and wait to see if the ‘victim’ will complain. It is important that teachers are vigilant and consistent.
Bully because they believe they are popular and have the support of the others.
Keep bullying because they incorrectly think the behaviour is exciting and makes them popular.
If there are no consequences to the bad behaviour; if the victim does not complain and if the peer group silently or even actively colludes, the bully will continue with the behaviour.


Victims

Often have poor social skills.
Lack the confidence to seek help.
Don’t have the support of the teacher or classmates who find them unappealing.
Blame themselves and believe it is their own fault.
Are desperate to ‘fit in’.
View is very often reinforced by the attitude of adults in their lives.
It is highly unlikely that they will seek help.
Most pupils (80%) are not actively involved in bullying. They neither bully nor are victims. They know it’s wrong but unless they are asked for help, or are made to feel they have a responsibility or duty to act, they will silently collude with the abuse.


HTH

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Lyn Clarke

I'd be in the principle's office and demand that the school do something. All school's here have a 0 tolerance bully policy and the little witch is a bully plain and simple.

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I dream to escape!

I, too, would be in the office. She is bullying your dd. She may not be physically harming her but she is causing emotional distress.

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We do have a no bullying policy at our school but this is the first year for it. Our school is about 650 kids from K-5 and the kids have been going through a program to deal with anyone who is a bully. My daughter doesn't really fit the typical victim profile except that she will befriend nearly anyone and hates hates hates for anyone to know there is a problem with anything. She does a lot of extra activity that her group of friends doesn't do, she is in the chorus, she has a part in a play that she has been rehearsing for wach week and she is in an art club. That leaves her two free afternoons a week where we could fit somthing else. I am thinking about looking into pottery classes for her at the local pottery shop. I have an email out to our principal asking if we can meet with her sometime Monday. She has been absolutely terrific to our family in the two years she has been in our school and all the kids just love her so I think she may really be able to get through to this other little girl and let her know what she is doing is just plain mean.

We also have a no tolerance policy for bullying. One of the main ways girls bully is through exclusion. Please follow the chain of command. Meet (one on one, no via email) with the teacher and talk about getting the school counselor involved. They will both notify the principal of the problem. But, as a teacher, I would like you to tell me first. I'm sorry that your daughter is going through this, but it seems to be widespread. My girls all came in to each lunch in the classroom with me yesterday because they wanted to talk...same problem!

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If you're not living on the edge, you're wasting space.

It may be difficult to correct the behavior of this other little girl, but it sounds like you have some good suggestions on how to go about that. Sounds like your daughter is a terrific kid, so the other thing I would suggest is help her to focus on her activities and the good things that she has going on and going for her and help her to understand that this is the other girls' problem, not hers. Are there any resources (books or movies) that might help? (I don't know, I have boys and they don't seem to do this kind of thing as much...)

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Remus, I have 2 girls and can totally relate. I do think you should speak to the principal, but don't count on her getting through to the mean girl. This kid is coming from some family where this behavior is taught or tolerated - its probably something she will do all her life, in some form.

Instead of focusing on this girl to change her behavior, focus on what you can control - have your daughter invite some new (i.e. nice) girls over to play, or out to a movie. This treatment can put girls into a "victim" mode, and bullying feeds on that. She needs to feel powerful (other girls like me! I'm good at art and singing!, etc...). Help your daughter understand that this is a shortcoming of the other girl and really not much to do with her.

Read "queen bees and wannabees" it gave me some insight on how to help my daughter. Good Luck.

Leagra, thanks for saying what I was trying to say - but way better and with experience!

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I don't really think the principle can do anything about the situation but talk to the girl. Maybe her parents do not know she is even acting like this. But , then again maybe they do and they cant be with her 24 -7 especially at school. You can teach your children the right ways to act and behave but that doesn't mean that they are like that when they are away from you. "We all hope that they do". I think the best bet is to talk to the teacher and see what she sees, and maybe she can talk to the girl. Its really not called bullying . It is exclusion ( no law says that you cant exclude ) and I as a teacher would just talk to the girls and if that doesn't work, separate them while in my room.

Most likely it issome sort of peer pressure from the girl... one girl starts the others chime in. I do know from experience that girls are not good in groups. one on one is fine, but when you add others to the equation "all Hell breaks loose".

Good luck !

P.s. just remember girls 9-14 are hell on wheels, they cry at the drop of a hat, hormones are raging.. no excuse though.

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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I can relate so much to your post since my daughter was also bullied by a mean girl when she was in fourth grade. The bully was one of the smartest girls in the class and always seemed nice to me. Unfortunately, she was also just like the bully in your story - she would tell everyone what to do, who to be friends with, etc. One of her friends who was also a friend of my daughter told me that she (the bully) considered herself the queen of the fourth grade and she told people what to do, and then she would threaten them if they didn't do what she said. As a result, when the bullying of my daughter happened many kids saw it but no one stood up for my daughter because they were afraid of repurcussions from the bully.

My big mistake in the situation was that I let it go on too long before going to the school. First, I had a hard time believing the girl would act out that way. Secondly, I thought maybe it was a phase and she'd quit. My daughter prided herself on her perfect attendance at school, and she began to tell my she didn't feel good and didn't want to go. Then one of her friends told me that as soon as the mean girl got on the bus she would start in on my daughter and some days my daughter was crying by the time they got to school. The bully was very good at hiding her behavior from anyone in authority. It was going on in the school bus, on the playground and finally in the classroom.

When I finally called the teacher, she had me come in to meet with her, the principal and the guidance counselor. No one - not the bus driver, the playground monitor or the teacher had seen anything, but several of the kids knew and did nothing. The principal had a talk with both girls, and asked the bully to apologize. She did. Her mother, however, got mad at me about it and told her daughter she was never to talk to my daughter again. Of course, they are kids, and they do talk. They are not in the same group of friends, however, and they will never be close.

Fast forward to today - the girls are now in eighth grade. I had hoped the bully had learned her lesson back then, but I guess not. My daughter came home a few weeks ago to tell me that a girl in a lower grade had told her she is being bullied by this same girl. The girl being bullied now has a brother in the same grade as my daughter. Apparently, the boy told the bully that his sister is sick of this girl being mean to her, and the bully just stood there laughing about it.

So to anyone experiencing this I say please take it seriously at the very beginning - don't wait like I did. Go directly to the school - our principal said if we don't know about it, we can't do anything. He also said to tell my daughter if anything happened again she was to go to anyone - him, her teacher, the counselor - even the office secretary so that it could be taken care of right away.

Just wanted to add my sympathy for your d/d. I have a 4th grade girl, and I know the playground politics can be ugly.

I agree with pursuing it with those in charge at school. I also think the suggestions to empower your d/d and build her confidence are great.

Hope it improves.

Actually, they are not even in the same homeroom and have no classes together. the problem occurs during lunch, between classes, on the playground, at anything extra they do if adults are not in very close proximity and lastly (and I think worst) is in their peer group. this is our second year of dealing with this they were in the same class for 3rd grade, ( in 4th grade here they begin to go from teacher to teacher for each subject) and we tried to dal with it then though the no adult saw that it was happening. I even asked my daughter if she was possibly over reacting. When I finally went to her teacher last year it was near the end of the year and everything stopped until school let out, then it started again in their peer group with a vengance. It's been going on intermittently this year starting with her telling a lunch monitor taht my daughter had peanut butter in her sandwich, we are a peanut free school, she did not have peanut butter, but her lunch was taken away for inspection and she was sent to the office. This kind of stuff where she tried hard to get my daughter into trouble is the only thing goinng on that a teacher would notice but since we don't have the same ladies in the cafeteria each day it seems to go unnoticed by anyone in authority. Finally, the girls mother knows. Her mother is a very nice person, and is ashamed of her daughter's behavior but she can't control her all the time and I think she gets a lot of leverage by playing her divorced parents against one another.

I know that at some schools you as a parent are allowed to eat lunch with your child. Does your school have this policy? The kids love it! Also, try to volunteer at the times they are together. Like during art, see if the art teacher would like your help in the classroom. Ask the librarian if she would like help putting books away during the time your daughter is in the library. Kids love it when a fresh face is there to help or talk with. Maybe this can be just one way in helping stop the bullying. Even if its just once a week.....

I toally agree with IrishBlonde. I was trying to think of a way to say it but she said it. I really don't think it's bullying. I don't think the principal can help you. Maybe the teacher might could help, but I wouldn't bet on that.

Girls at this age run in packs and it only gets worse as they get older. One day one girl is "the" girl to run around with and all the girls hang with her; the next it's another girl. Or in your case, it's been a year. Maybe your daughter should try to find new friends. Perhaps she can be the 'alpha' female in a group. That's about what it boils down to. All these girls are so afraid of being left out of this little group that they'll listen to what this one girl says, even if your daughter has been friends with most of the girls all her life. It amazes me what girls will do to 'fit in the group.'

I honestly don't think there's anything you can do. I remember girls having groups in school growing up. It's part of growing up. And it's something your daughter needs to learn to deal with now and talk to her now that this is not going to end and she needs to find a way to change the problem. Hopefully she can find a group of girls that she can be friends with and can totally ignore this girl causing the trouble. That's what she should do anyway. Just ignore the girl. Without the attention and without causing your daughter to cry and be upset, she will probably just leave your daughter alone.

Heck, even grown women do this - both the exclusion and the bullying. One or more attack, and the others cheer from the sideline. That's not to say that we all wish that it wasn't so, or don't feel empathy for your little girl. It does stink and it is hurtful, but it is so difficult to control someone else's behavior.

Reading mom2twins2 comment about being so afraid of being the "out" person is just so sad. Gosh, how do we as adults, teachers, parents give these girls the self-esteem to do what is right, not what makes them popular?

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I wonder if op could have a talk with a guidance counselor/ social worker about 'mean girl' and her covert ways of manipulating others into not being friends with op's daughter.

Maybe the staff member would be able to have a talk with the class about harrassment and bullying (not pointing fingers, of course) and remind the kids of the different ways that bullies can present themselves. If the staff person could stress that one tactic bullies is to manipulate other peers to outcast someone, then kids might examine whether or not they've been "used" by the bully. This has been done in the classroom setting where I taught. The kids who were spoken to just assumed that it was one of those random talks they get from time to time. They didn't seem to think that a victim's parent initiated it.

Good luck!

That's a tough situation, for sure. Girls do seem to have it a bit tougher during these years. Are they wearing the right clothes, shoes, belt, etc, etc. I usually stay out of any situations that arise with DD and her friends. I have to say, tho, nothing really bad has happened. My DD pretty much just lets it roll off her back, and moves forward.

I do remember emphasizing to her that we have raised her to be herself, and just because someone else is ugly or hateful towards her, that is not the type of person she is, and don't act that way just because someone else does.

Hoping things get better for your DD.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

It seems like bullying to me..... I hope the school can help, but it sounds like maybe some light is being shed on her behavior anyway, so it will probably be more difficult for it to continue (I hope!). I just wanted to say Good luck. I feel so bad for your daughter and hope that everything gets resolved soon.

Kim

when a teacher (or parent) is near...a bully disappears.

how many times does an adult see bullying tactics of a child? RARELY!

The thing is we need to teach our children to stick together and the difference between tattling and telling on other children. Girls are the WORST offenders on bullying.

Every day thousands of children fake an illness because of the hurt and pain they have to endure with bullies.

It is so important to keep the lines of communication open with your child. One on one time is extremely important. If you have more than one child, schedule a "date" with your children to talk about what is going on at school and with their friends.

OP, I am not saying you didn't do this! There is NO way to prevent bullying but there are ways to stop it or at the very least identify it. Check with your child's school about the policy on bullying. Most schools have gone to a ZERO tolerance policy. I agree with a PP in the aspect to let the teacher know first then work your way to the top.

With all that said, check with your local McDonald's restaurant, yes I said McDonald's restaurant. They provide FREE school shows for elementary schools and have this awesome show called "A Friendship Adventure with Ronald McDonald" it teaches kids how to spot a bully, how to deal with a bully, and most of all, how important it is to stick together as friends to keep bullies at bay.

School Show

Teaching kids when they're younger about what a bully is instead of letting them jump in feet first might be a way to keep kids from becoming bullies and keep them from being bullied!

OP I hope things start to subside for your daughter...I was bullied in jr high and it was awful. I still remember the girl's name and the mean things she said to me. She and her buddies called me the "l" word because I didn't have a boyfriend...funny thing is some of my best friends to this day are "l"'s and they are just people...in jr high though especially in the 90s to be called an l was just mortifying! Even worse was I was friends with her younger sister and that didn't help the situation either. Thank GOD she moved away...the friends she was the leader of eventually became my friends and life was so much better.

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