Has anyone else noticed a change in people being happy?
I am not talking about people we know, but people in the grocery stores, on the street, in malls, etc? Just strangers.

I have really noticed it this week while working in my Wal Mart stores. If I got in someones way by accident, I always move over and say I am sorry and smile. Usually most people will smile back, or say "that is okay". Not this week!
Even if I smile at someone, I used to get a smile back,, NOT THIS WEEK!

What I am seeing is very stoic behavior from people, people that aren't acknowledging others. I can't tell you how many times I was almost run over by another cart, only to have that person not even say BOO or "I'm sorry" or nothing....they just go on like nobodies business.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the economy? Maybe a lot of people aren't happy going to the store anymore.

Has anyone else noticed?

Sort of. Some people seem really desperate to be cheered up, and some just don't respond. I also saw, in one night at work, three people request to close accounts because the owners had killed themselves. Three people. I've seen accounts closed because people died of natural causes, but in four years, I'd NEVER seen a suicide related one.

I think people are being pushed to the financial brink. Everything is dramatically more expensive within the past several months. Families already on tight budgets are going to start going under. Add that to the housing crisis -- I think we're going to see a rash of shootings at workplaces, suicides, bankruptcies -- the country is in desperate straits.

How very sad.

I haven't noticed it too much around here, but it does make sense. People on super-tight budgets, hit so hard by the rising cost of everything are hurting and scared.

I really hope this November's results will bring this country to some better times.

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I haven't noticed that people at stores are acting differently, probably because I've made it a point to stay away from stores unless I really need to buy something. I've scaled back on my weekend shopping trips. I used to go to the sales for entertainment. I agree that people are stressed out because prices are rising everywhere. If only we could get back to simpler times where people could be happy without all the luxuries we consider as necessitiies now (cable TV, Starbucks coffee, electronic everything, ipods,iphones,video games,getting your nails done, extravagant birthday parties for kids etc.) People are living beyond their means.

You are so right...People are living beyond their means. I wasn't surprised when I read that Atlanta has the third largest population of people with personal debt...The Hummers and big old SUV's take alot of money to fill them up...The huge mansions are going into foreclosure. I think that finances are probably one of the biggest causes of divorce and suicide...They see no way out and are desperate...It is very disturbing to see the economy in such bad shape...My Mom said that she doesn't ever remember it being this bad...and she's almost 70 years old...Not even during the "energy crisis" in the '70's...Even the basics like fruit and milk are outrageously priced...I have noticed that alot of people are walking around with frowns on their faces...We are in tough times people.... ~Lisa

I think it definitely has to do with the economy, and I don't see it getting any better until after next January, when Bush is gone.

I think we'll see a jump in suicides, crime and all the other things that come with it.

My mom works at a Funeral Home and there has already been a 'rise' in the number of deaths they get a month. I'm not saying there have been more deaths than normal, but the funeral home where she works deals with most of the indignant death cases where the Township Trustees help pay for the funeral. They truly are paupers funerals, too. They've had a jump in 30-55 year old deaths, mostly from cancer. They've also had a larger than normal number of AIDS deaths, too. 4 in the past month, and normally they may see 4 AIDS deaths in a year.

I think that's unfair. The price of gas has gone up more than 50%. Milk, cheese, bread, eggs, all kinds of necessities are going up by 50% or more. I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone who got a 50% raise last year.

Unless you call things like gas, food, housing and utilities luxuries, I think it's the basics of life that are doing people in these days.

If people are living beyond their means, it's because the cost of the basics have skyrocketed.

A lot of Americans have being living beyond their means for years. The massive credit card debt shows that a lot of families are carrying balances each month. If you are living with credit card debt..you are living beyond your means. This has been going on for some time now, not just because of higher prices, but rather a way of living.
Also, articles in the news for several years now have stated that Americans do not save money. Yes, people do have savings such as 401k, etc..but most do not put money aside every month as additional savings for "rainy" days.

I think people are just having problems paying for the basics such as food and gas right now. I've been behind people in line at the grocery store who are paying for groceries with their credit cards (I know some people do this for points) but the amount of people I have seen doing this lately I really think they are putting it on the credit card because they don't have the cash to pay for the basics. People have to eat and they have to get to work and they have to pay their utilities and mortgage/rent payment. I know we have cut back eating out from once a week to once a month and when we do eat out there is hardly anyone in the restuarant. Places that used to have waiting lines to get seated are only half full. People are having to make choices and I don't think alot of people are "happy" about it and maybe that comes out when they actually have to visit a store and have to actually see those prices which seem to be going up every week as I go to the store.

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visit my homepage http://penny.mycoupons.com/

I agree. With these out of sight prices on necessities, people are going to become desperate. With that, crime will most certainly increase dramatically. I know that we're already seeing gas theft go up quite a bit, and I wouldn't be surprised to see many try to steal gas from vehicles at night. Some may figure that being in jail is easier than trying scrape by making a living and end up in the negative.

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!

Agreed. It's hard to be happy when you're constantly worrying about how to pay for gas, food, rent, utilities, clothes, etc.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

I think that statement is naive.

I'm thinking forrest means HUGE CC debt that they know they cannot pay off and yet continue to use it.

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Mary

And then she made this statement, laying the blame not on the rising cost of living, as many of us do, but on living high on the hog.

And that's why I think her statement was naive. People are accumulating credit card debt because they have no choice.

ITA what truble and others said about people reaching desperate financial situations with the price of consumer goods, gas, medical treatment etc.
We have about 80 houses in our neighborhood and almost 30 of them are in foreclosure or are already empty/foreclosed on. I'm shocked at some of the neighbors who have lost their houses-the nurse, the construction manager, the business exec, all of whom had steady jobs for many years but after losing their jobs and falling behind, eventually lost their home.
I do mystery shops at restaurants - twice in the past month I went to a nice restaurant and was the one and only customer there! Not a super fancy upscale place - maybe a 3-star restaurant, a meal for one would be about $20. Not a single customer except me.
The teachers at the school where I used to work - three of them have said they've had their gas or water shut off after they fell behind on utility payments. They are working, and not living beyond their means, just can't afford the basics.
Crime has gone up around here, gas thefts, robberies at gunpoint, kidnappings - last week three different women were kidnapped in Denver in broad daylight, forced into a car & made to withdraw $ from an ATM before their captors let them go. In the next town over a teenage gunman has been holding people up threatening to kill them if they don't have cash to give him.
And this is in a 'normal' city. I don't live in a fancy neighborhood nor a 'bad' neighborhood, just a normal middle class area, but the future is not looking good. And it has been going on for some time now, it's just getting worse. At a neighborhood bbq about 2 or 3 years ago, we had about a dozen families and half of them had a spouse who had been laid off from their job.

ahhh, Gotcha, truble

Gas prices are really hurting my family - All our vehicles are paid off, but after paying for gas to fill 2 trucks and an explorer a couple times a month, I feel like we're making a car payment! Wish we could afford to get a more gas efficient car. I could see why it would make some people grumpy. I personally have not seen it though.

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Mary

I do not think I am being naive.
People need to sit down and look at what they make and where they spend their money. Credit has been too easy to get. Now that the credit is tightening up people can not just get another loan. credt card, or take equity loan out on their house to pay for what the "think" they need.
This is not an "overnight" problem for our country. This has become the way of life for too many people.
This is not because gas, bread etc is too high. If you are living within your means..it will cause displeasure not "panic" to your budget.

I have a friend who is bankruptcy attorney. He said he has never seen or heard of things being so bad. He is working 7 days a week trying to people from losing their homes. All the hard luck stories are really getting to him. It is not just the poor that are going under it is the middle and upper classes too. Look at Holyfield and Ed McMahon
What I find really scary is these people and others tying to stay afloat are tapping everything they have. They have taken loans against their retirement and everything else. What are we all going to do when we have to retire and the 401k system, and with it the stock market, has collapsed or inflation has eaten up our savings. Those of us who have saved will be down the tubes too.
This economy is really scary. I wish the get rich quick people would quit driving up commodities so us regular folks can just eat.

Yeah, what's wrong with all those people buying food? They need to stop that foolishness.

The point is that it has being going on for YEARS..not just the last couple of months (when prices, gas are starting to go higher).
Most people the last couple of years have been putting clothes, computers, vacations, etc on credit cards and never fully paying off their credit card. Now with prices increasing they have a major problem.
I do not think all the credit card debt that the US has is from people buying food! This has been happening too long.

Yep, I know, that's what you think.

I agree with you forrestlayne. Alot of people(not all) have over extended themselves and did not think of the future. Many people purchased a home they could not afford, but because the bank said they could afford it...they bought it. I think alot of people have been living on credit before all these price increases and now they are in jam. Yes, there are some people who truly cannot these price increases because of their income and not because they've been living above their means.

I love reading financial articles and I'm seeing more articles about people living above their means and now struggling.

If anyone is struggling, read a Dave Ramsey book. He has excellent advice.

When you consider that the average American family makes $1,000 less per year than they did in the 70s and inflation, although under control until late, has continued to rise, it's no wonder that people carry more debt these days. For years they've been struggling and most people just aren't about to let their kids starve or not see a doctor. All kinds of incidental expenses are put on charge cards these days.

Belindab is right in that people don't think about the future. There really isn't much of a future for the average American. And they still have kids and try to provide as best they can.

Gasoline is predicted to be $5 per gallon by July 4th.

I very much agree. Most people have come to think necessities include cell phones (for themselves and their 10 year olds) name brand apparel, a gas guzzler, manicured nails, more house than they could truly afford, vacations to talk about, etc., as a way of living, as you stated it.

Anyone living a comfortable life should be able to absorb the higher prices on gas and groceries, the necessities. Not pleasant, but realize maybe, just maybe, they have to give up something else because they are over extended. Our society has changed from be happy with what you have and work hard to get ahead.....to give me, give me now and I mean right now. Most people have done this to themselves. But they can't and won't see they did this, they believe they are victims.

The folks who were on a marginal existence to start are the ones truly hurting at this point. They have little to nothing to cut back on.

this post is certainly not
cpsfsisooi

I have to agree with what was said about if someone is living within their means, they may be able to tighten up and ride this thing out. My dh and I have always had +/- $1,500 extra per month for "mad money", investments, going out, whatever. This last month and a half, we have been barely scraping by with paying all of our bills. Now granted, we both took very big vacations in April, and we are catching up from that, but it is just amazing that the extra cushion we had, seems to be gone. DH made the comment the other day, "If we were doing so good and living very comfortable and now we are barely scraping by, how are these people doing it that were just on the brink and maxed out monthly in bills before all of this has happened? I can see why people are losing their homes..I just don't see how they are going to make it."
I know that we are fortunate, and I thank my lucky stars. But if it gets much worse, we will be getting very worried then. It won't take much to put us in a position of being on the brink. I have since cut back on getting my nails done. I am waiting longer in between getting my hair done, I am using coupons and we have slowed down going out. I started this BEFORE I had to-simply because I knew this was coming.

On another note, does anyone think it is a good idea to stop contributing to a 401K right now?
Ours have lost quite a bit of money, but I am not sure if it would be wise to stop contributing for the time being and use the money on other invenstments (like just a regular savings account).

Anyone have any advice?

I believe that both are somewhat true.

Our society's level of expectations for what constitutes 'the basics' has risen tremendously. As an example, in the past, if a kid wanted to be the best football player, cheerleader... whatever, take your pick of the activity... they got together with their buddies, practiced all summer, shot baskets in the driveway all day, etc. Now things are much more sophisticated and in order to even make the team, it's expected that your child *will* attend the $1,000 camp for a week, staying in the dorms, buying a new pair of $150 shoes for camp, etc. There are only so many spots on the team, and if you want your kid to play, you have to pay. We've truly created something of an expensive rat race just to get to the level of playing time that in times past, a child had to accomplish on his own, locally, in his back yard or in the weight room of his or her own school.

People *are* living beyond their *means* if they are spending more than they make. That's simple math. If they don't have the means for something but they spend money on that thing anyway, they have exceeded their means. The problem is that their means may not cover the basics anymore.

We don't have the stomach to tell our kids that we can't afford the camps or the shoes or the jeans because we have to spend that money on food and gasoline, so we have to charge to continue to have all of those things in our lives.

People in those situations are feeling especially desperate.

And those who were living within their means suddenly have less and less disposable income and are stuck having to make some hard choices.

And those who were living just at their means are trying to decide if they have to do without or if they must go into debt.

Personally, I don't think a change in the White House is going to change this. It's happening because China and other large nations are beginning to depend on the same sources of oil we always have, and in a big way. OPEC is as equally beholden to them as they are to us, but mostly, they're beholden to their own interests, and right now it's working well for them to slow production and charge all of us more. It's our dependence on foreign oil that is at the root of it, and the only ones who can change that are *us*... not a President. In years past, when we were the major consumer of that foreign oil, we were in a bit of a position to play hardball over the cost per barrel. Now we're *not* the only big oil consumer and have much less sway with them.

I have to admit that we are in the same boat as many others in regards to debt. However, our situation is unusual, we were almost 100% debt free except for a small mortgage until we invested with Humberto (Gino) Moya. He is the our neighbor and supposedly a pastor that we are alleging scammed us out of nearly $160,000. I doubt that we will ever see that money again, the DA entered our names in a victim database and there is a fund for victims like us but it won't be much.

It's ironic, I always wondered how Moya's family was able to afford all their new cars, vacations, private school for their children etc.; now I know how - it's my opinion that I was probably the one that paid for it all.

I think that families will adapt the best they can in these hard times. It's amazing how much you can stretch a dollar when you are forced to. Here's an interesting site to keep things in perspective. if you have spare change, you are rich iwka.onething

Some of the quotes are:

"If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep
you are more comfortable than 75% of the people in this world.

If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, spare change in a drawer, a pocket or somewhere
you are among the top 8% of the world’s most wealthy people."

There are an awful lot of tax advantages that come with a 401K. Can you shift things around in your portfolio? Maybe energy stocks are still safe.

People are shorter than usual. Nerves are shot, budgets are being stretched. Kids are out of school (or almost out). No vacation this year due to gas, food, prices in general, rising. The weahter is cuckoo, scammers abound, work hours being cut, etc etc etc.

I know I am a bitch sometimes but in general I am a courteous kind person. I find myself thinking more about other things thus letting my mind wander so I am not as conscious maybe of other people as usual. I am just speaking for myself.

Generally speaking I have seen a decline in recent years (15-20?) in peoples' manners and how they interact with each other.

Thank God we have the sense to not use credit cards. Our only debt is to one car and our very inexpensive home. We make the choice what we spend each month instead of being hampered with interest payments, etc.

After reading this I am going to be nicer not such a bitch in general.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

The biggest cause of the poor economy is the enormous tax cuts given to the rich and the deregulation of the banking industry. Greed always prevails. We'll probably never see cheap gas or oil again and we have done nothing to reduce our dependence except talk. We've known about this since the 70s.

A change in the White House will make a huge difference but it's not going to happen overnight. We have a huge mess to work our way out of.

What fund is there for victims of unsecured financial losses? Is it sponsored by the US government? I never heard of such a thing, only FDIC regarding banks, financial institutions.

Anna, Yeah, it's been a rough week this past week in the stores. I am trying to understand, but it is hard when a guy comes out of nowhere, cuts in front of you with his cart and then doesn't even bat an eye that you had to come to half, hit your cat with your body, and then have whomever was behind you do the same thing. lol I am in the store working, not shopping, so maybe that is the difference in my attitude and theirs.

kvmj-I know that there are tax benefits, but I am wondering if we actually would be saving more with even paying taxes on the money that we are losing (KWIM?). Placing it in a savings account and drawing a little bit of interest to offset the taxes we will have to pay. We will have to leave what we have already contributed into the 401K, but I am just thinking that stopping the contributions for now might be beneficical, might not.. I just am not sure since I am not that smart with financial numbers But I will definitely look into energy stocks. I had heard from others that with the cost of heating fuel and grains going up that wasn't the way to go, but who knows! *Sigh* if I only had a degree in investing *sigh* But I think that even with a degree, no one has a crystal ball, you know?

BTW, our area is going to be hit hard by next year. GM has a plant they are closing in Janesville, WI which is near us. A lot of people in our area are employed by them. Scary thought, and the domino effect that will take place by them leaving is even scarier (small machine shops, restaurants and bars that had GM employees as their main customer base, etc). It is just going to be very scary to see what happenes to our area.

Yes, I guess I can sympathize with those that are not very happy right now.

Without knowing a more complete picture of your financial situation, it's tough to say what you should or should not do about a 401K contribution. I won't stop/reduce ours, nor our RIRA's, which I already maxed for the year. Even when it dips, it's still ours for the future. You might consider a lesser amount and see how that works for you. I don't have a savings, but think those are basically worthless at such low % rates. Also remember you will have to pay tax on any amount of interest you earn.

Maybe see it as a challenge to continue funding the 401K, get your cushion back to where it needs to be and no further debt?

I'm not sure ours falls under unsecured financial loss - we are alleging that it was fraud (and the I believe the authorities agree) - we had a contract with Humberto B. Moya that our funds were to be used as a deposit for a certain building, we now have evidence that indicates that Humberto aka Gino Moya never purchased the building nor will he show us how he used our money.

I have to double check, I'm going off of memory, but when there is any type of recording fee in our county, a certain amount goes into a fund, or so I was told. I wasn't really focusing on that when I talked with the special prosecutions investigator. I'm not sure if this makes a difference or not but we wired the money and in our notarized contract, he did mention that we would receive 'shares', but of course, it is our opinion according to our research, that he isn't registered or licensed to offer securities. But this will have to be determined by the authorities, not me. There is also a section in the Internal Revenue Code that may allow me to deduct any theft losses on our taxes.

Anyhow, at this point, we don't expect to get any money back. If we do, then it's a bonus. What I would love to see is to have this guy prosecuted and exposed. It' my opinion that Humberto Moya aka Gino Moya aka Beto Moya is telling everyone that we are just a disgruntled investor but that's not the truth.

We're also filing a civil suit against him, so I will be posting links as soon as that is done.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the cause of the poor economy. IIRC, the top 1% of earners pay about 95% of our gross intake from taxes. "Fair" is something nobody can really define.

This White House has had arguably one of the more difficult set of circumstances to navigate in history. We were attacked on our own shores by a largely invisible - yet deadly - foe. We were just feeling the pains associated with the collapse of the over-zealous tech sector. Look at stocks such as CSCO and SUNW that were riding high during the Clinton administration that were way over-priced and then tanked. Throw in OPEC deciding to slow production just because they could and you've got quite a lot to deal with. If our taxes had gone up as well, it would've just been fuel to the fire.

Still, we haven't endured anything like our grandparents did in the Great Depression. It may turn out to be the most difficult time in *our* adult lives, financially, but it pales in comparison to the Dust Bowl Days. World War II took an estimated 72M lives worldwide, with about 400,000 Americans killed and 600,000 wounded. What we've endured in recent history pales in comparison to that.

Please cite your source.

This current asmistration has Bled us dry and we haven't even started paying for the war they started based on lies that they now admit they knew they weren't true but felt the ends justified the means. They issued billions to Haliburton, Dick Cheneys company, with out any other bids, for a bit little of everything. This has now gone into foreign bank accounts that we can't touch. There is no evidence that they even did a fraction of thigs they were supposed to do. They have also killed off many of our best young people in the process. The real hope for our future.
Now the Fed has bailed out the fat cats at Bear Sterns and left the American people on the hook. No one know how much that will end up costing us. All these bills are going to have to be paid and the only way to do it is by raising taxes. This adminstration has not wanted to do this for fear the American people would realize they wasted everything and might call them on it. So, they put it off causing the debt and interest on this to build even higher. All this debt is finally catching up to them and dragging down the economy. It is causing the dollar to crash so everything costs more. This is further exacerbated by the same fat cats that benefited from Bear Sterns, trying to get rich playing with the commodities market. I have no illusions the Dems are really that much better but I pray they can't be worse. I am afraid that they will have to raise taxes and interest rates to help prop up the dollar but it may also kill whats left of the economy. It really is all very over whelming. Yes I feel the hopelessness creeping in but I am still trying to be optimistic but it gets harder every day. I will get off my soap box now and rock quietly in the corner.

Funny you should ask for that. I said "IIRC" because I wasn't completely sure of the stats - just knew they were skewed towards the rich paying the majority of the taxes - and threw out some figures that seemed like they surely couldn't be true. I know when I *heard* the figures I was astounded, so I was using astounding figures!

Come to find out, my figures were off by quite a bit, but the stats are still pretty astounding.

I have never heard of this website and don't know if it leans right or left. It's American.com. Here is a quote in an article that I found fascinating about whether the rich pay less or more today than compared to prior to Bush being in office: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes — The American, A Magazine of Ideas

And this is a quote from one of the next search results I found:
Bush’s Tax Cuts for the “Rich” Actually Favor the Poor | AllFinancialMatters

As to who pays what percentages, it's the top 50% paying 97% of the taxes that go to the treasury, with the bottom 50% of American earners paying just 3%. The top 1% of earners pay 19% of the taxes. The top 5% pay 57%. The top 25% pay 85%, and workers whose incomes are in the 50th - 75th percentage of the top half pay just 12% of the taxes.

In other words, the bottom 75% pay 15% of the taxes.

When you figure in the fact that those at the lower end of the earning spectrum are eligible for tax credits that those who make more (is it $100K?) are not eligible for such as the child tax credit and the earned income credit this paragraph explains the stats:

I can't believe it, but ITA.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I absolutely agree.

I think a LOT of problems people are having are due to their own poor/selfish choices.

I personally know several women who complain constantly about how they "can hardly afford to feed their families anymore" yet they get their nails done every other week

sorry if this is mentioned , i did not read the whole post.
does your or you DH employer match your 401K savings? if he does then don't stop the contribution. make min. contribution to get the max. employer match. that is free money.
and keep an eye on that because whenever you get raise, you get higher match % from the employer, so you have to raise your contribution to get the max. match from the employer.

also you can start an IRA account (if you don't have one already) and for $2000 savings /year, you get $200 in tax return. (i think the $200 is the max limit, not sure tho)

HTH

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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Wall Street Journal, Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation are all well known conservative or conservative leaning institutions.

That's a blog written by someone named "Meg." I have no idea what Meg's qualifications are.

When people say things like 1% of the people pay 95% of the taxes -- well, that's meaningless unless you know how much of the income those 1% are pulling in. For example, if the top 1% of the people are also making 95% of the money, of course they're paying 95% of the taxes. If the bottom 75% are making 15% of the money, then paying 15% of the taxes makes sense.

I don't think the numbers correlate quite that closely, but it's not a situation where the bottom 75% of the people are making 75% of the money, either. It's a bit like the blind man describing the elephant -- it's a small piece of the story, but not enough to make a considered judgment on right or wrong, IMO.

I understand what you are saying. Here is the response to it from the website I noted above that quoted the WSJ guy.

While I understand that the particular statistics one can choose to quote can leave a skewed perception the reality is that those who earn the least don't pay taxes at all, and actually receive money from the government in the form of tax credits. They do still have to pay state and local taxes - especially sales taxes - but that's not something the federal government is responsible for.

OK, I have no idea what he means by progressivity -- do you know how he defines that term?

Agreed.

Some of those are federal, like gas taxes, but most are local, you're right.

The rich still pay a lesser percentage of their income in taxes than the middle class. To me, taxing unearned income at a lesser rate than earned income is ludicrous.

The real issue here is income disparity.

I disagree. When someone earns a dollar they are taxed on that income. Assume that after taxes that $1 is worth $.80. If she invests that $.80 and it grows to be worth $1 in 2-3 years and the government takes half of the $.20 she earned in capital gains, she's back to $.90. It will take several years for that $1 she earned to be worth $1.

I could care less about disparity in income, personally. What I think is important is that those at every rung of the economic ladder have the opportunity to learn and acquire the skills it takes to function in our free market society so that they can create the kind of life for themselves that they'd like to have. For me, it's not remotely about some bitter need to punish those who have figured out how to work our financial system. I say "Power to 'em!" for the most part. And I'd love to see those at the bottom understand how to move up. We'll never all be wealthy. It just won't happen. But in the history of the world, there has never been a time when it was more possible for people to obtain health care, shelter from the elements, food, or education than in the United States in 2008. We have a number of people who don't know how to take advantage of these possibilities and *that's* the shame - not how much the rich *make*, but how underprepared our poorest citizens are to pursue a better standard of living.

" personally know several women who complain constantly about how they "can hardly afford to feed their families anymore" yet they get their nails done every other week"
That is so true.

But back to the original question, I think that this nastiness is everywhere. Maybe it is due to the economy, maybe it is because of the way the future looks, who knows.

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GO TONY!!!!!!!!!!! # 20!!!

We're in the class of people who are really struggling right now.

I babysit and make good money, and we don't live beyond our means at all. We have zero credit card debt-we don't even have a credit card, and quite honestly, I don't think we could get one if we wanted right now.

In the past 3 or 4 years I've been hit with quite a few medical problems-thank God none of them are considered life threatening right now, but at one point my doctors thought it was cancer.

My DH makes a good living, we try to save, plan for retirement, etc, but the medical bills are about to put us under. We have decent insurance, too, but I have almost 50k in medical bills that I'm trying to pay on.

I try to pay everyone something every month, even if it is only 10 bucks, but that isn't good enough. One bill was 4700.00 (my portion) and I tried to set up a reasonable payment plan-this is with the hospital where 90% of my bills are, so it's not like they can't see how much I owe total.

The best she could offer me as far as a payment plan was 3 monthly installments. Are you freakin kidding me? My phone rings nonstop from medical creditors who don't give two $%^%$ that at least I'm attempting to pay my bills and not blowing everyone off. I've stopped answering my phone and I just do what I can. I keep track of all of the bills so I have the beginning amount, when/how much I pay and current balance. I also note any payment plans they offered me just in case I ever do get taken to court over them, at least I can show I'm attempting to pay it off, even if it is slow.

Something has to change.

When one part of the economy falters, it all falters. I absolutely do not think that the middle class should pay a greater percentage of their income in taxes than the uber rich. Most of the uber rich inherited their wealth.

Good luck getting into the billionaire club. You'll need it.