I just finished watching another story on the flooding in the Midwest. I can't help but compare the contrast between the actions of the victims of Kartrina vs those of this latest huge flooding.

Cities, towns, homes, farms up and down the Mississippi still under water, still without power, people still without a place to live. Businesses destroyed. And yet I have not heard one story about Looting or Violence.

I know more rural areas were involved, but Cedar Rapids, for one example, is not a small town.

Just thinking out loud - why the difference?

__________________
Mary

what's your opinion?

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

I was just saying the same thing the other day. And it doesn't seem like we are hearing rescue stories. I guess ppl knew it was going to flood and got out.

So, why is this? Floods are for sure (to some extent) and hurricanes aren't??

Melissa

I noticed that, too. I saw on TV some people being rescued by boat. They were told to leave and I believe most of them left (on their own). The levees broke in the Midwest floods, too. I saw a lot of working together and helping each other instead of sitting around waiting for someone to do the work for them. I, too, haven't seen nor heard of any looting or crimes. I think that speaks for itself.

__________________
"Many people lose their tempers merely from seeing you keep yours..."

I think the trouble in LA was based out of frustration, lack of help and lack of morals. The people that looted knew they had nowhere to use or put the items they looted, they did it because they could and it didn't help that the police force joined right in.

The violence, well, there are just some people that will do what they want when they want and if the opportunity arises. This, I just did not and do not understand.

I also believe there is a true family value system in the Midwest. I mean family in the community sense.

__________________
Mary

I just saw a story where there was a call-in from a single mom who is sharing a hotel room (provided by the Red Cross) with another single mom. One has 4 kids and one has 5 kids - that's 11 people in one room. I'm so glad they have a place to stay and they are safe, but how long will they be there?

I cannot even imagine what they are going through. I'm glad that FEMA and the Red Cross stepped in so quickly.

__________________
Mary

I live in Lincoln Co. Missouri.

We've been hit pretty hard hit out here. Several levees have broke, and we just ran out of sand tonight to reinforce the ones still standing. I have no idea how things will play out this time.

In '93 we had over a hundred FEMA trailers in the field behind our house. Theft, violence and overall bad behavior were a problem. I knew most of these families, it's a small community. They were good people. But bad living conditions, stress, frustration, and anger can bring out the worst in people.

In LA we just saw it on a larger scale, on national news.

__________________
We can't stop here this is bat country.....

how are you going to loot when everthing is under water?

I totally understand what you're saying. And I think that had a lot to do with New Orleans. Most of the people in the news stories we saw of the looting were young (under 30) - If they had not been under the stress and did not have the anger you mentioned most would never have looted. I firmly believe it's mob mentality.

__________________
Mary

My opinion is that these people were better off financially than the peole affected by Katrina. Also I think in rural communities people help each other out.
We have to remember that New Orleans (which is where the bad behaviour took place) is a large metro city that had a high crime rate and high poverty rate to begin with.
People in these recently affected areas are mainly inhabitants of places so small that they would feasibly personally know the people who own the stores and businesses. On the other hand in New Orleans, a big population means that people are less likely to personally know the people they are taking from.

__________________
"Men can't be fat only fat women can be fat" Peter Griffin
"Without the environment where will we do stuff?" JoeJack-Strickland Propane

Why the difference????

Well I have a few ideas there. One, the media focused on everything bad after Katrina. You did not see the communities that came together and took care of each other. You did not see the people who shared what little they had with their neighbors. You did not see the people who worked in the boiling heat trying to clear roads and yards for their neighbors even if those neighbors were perfect strangers. The media never even noticed all of that. I did. You did not see a church service just days after Katrina with people praising God that they were alive and thanking Him for what was left. I did


Two, a lot of the affected area was a very impoverished area with people who were caught in their circumstances but a LOT of people who chose those circumstances. They were in that area because they did not want better. They wanted to be provided for without lifting a finger. When you have that mentality, you have chaos when the hand that is providing is gone. The media focused on that area and forgot the other areas. Sure did make a whole area look bad when it was not.

Edited because I thought of a three. No one REALLY thought the levees would fail in New Orleans. They had held through umpteen hurricanes before. People just expected them to hold yet again. The fear of what could happen was just not very strong. People had been there done that and hat the t-shirt. Katrina was different.

Sorry... getting off my soap box now but this hit a little too close to home for me.

Actually that's similar to the midwest floods. My co-worker had his house sandbagged higher than the '93 flood water mark on a Monday when I brough him some refreshments as he was sandbagging. He felt really confident. But by Thursday his house was under water and he ended up with 4 feet of water in the house. It's ruined. So even though most of the cities were prepared for water reaching the 100 year mark of '93 it went way over that this time. I thought Katrina was a mess but there was such a high concentration of people in a relatively small area than all the flooding in the Midwest so I'm sure that was part of the problem. That said, we Mid-westerners are a great bunch!!! So many people-young and old, were out sandbagging day and night. I watched a live evacuation of a hospital in Cedar Rapids on tv one night aboiut 4:00am. There were tons of people down there helping!!! It was wonderful to watch everyone pitching in to help.
Hurricanes usually have some warning. So do floods-at least big ones! Tornadoes are pretty unpredictable but at least you know if the weather is looking bad and a watch issued that you have to be aware. Earthquakes seem the scariest to me because there is absolutley no warning!

I think there is a family value system in many areas of the country, not just the Midwest. When Katrina hit, there were MANY communities that pitched in to help out, from all over the US. Also, you mainly only heard about the terrible conditions in New Orleans. The devestation was quite widespread (Mississippi and Alabama, too) yet, you mainly only heard about New Orleans. I think it made for "sensational" news coverage. Sadly the depressing stories make the news most of the time.

I agree with the "mob mentality" thinking. It rather sickened me to see the young children chanting on the news "we need help". Clearly you need help, but, why not rather than do something non productive like that, you pitch in and help each other out. DH and I use the situation in New Orleans as an example to our kids when they say "I didn't make that mess...." or some other similarity. We all must work together for the overall good of the "community" (our family).

I feel terrible for anyone that had damage or losses in any of these situations. Flood Insurance is quite reasonable, but, sadly most people don't have it. I'm not just talking about the effected areas.

__________________
No Piece, No Peace
Know Piece, Know Peace

TLJ Women United in Spirit!!!

I think the major difference is in the amount of people displaced. When Katrina hit, there were so many people in New Orleans already living on top of each other-in projects (and there were a lot of projects there), apartments, and in row homes, and most people with not a lot of land. The floods in the Midwest happened in very rural areas, where not so many people were involved. While I think that drugs and crime are more relevant in NO, and less so in Wisconsin, I still think it's a numbers game.

I do think there is a difference in circumstance. In LA the water was up to the rooftops. People had no way out and they died. In Cedar Rapids the water was high and did a lot of damage but not death. The economic difference in the begining is a factor too. While the average income in Iowa is not great it is better than N.O. And the most important thing, this is farm country. Even if you are now living in the city you have farm values. If a farmer is sick or falls on hard times, the neighbors just pitch in. It is an unwritten law. We are used to having to deal with adversity. That is what farming is. Some years it is all good. But then you will have a really wet spring and you just deal with what life has dealt you. But I really believe that there were some great stories that were left untold in N.O. it was more news worthy to show the looting that to show the neighbors helping neighbors.

Besides the fact that the numbers of affected people and social circumstances are in no way comparable. It's pretty hard to carry a stolen TV two miles in waste deep water : )

Would you be surprised to know Missouri is the Meth capital of the United States ? I have friends in "small town, Missouri" who have been broken it to so much they don't bother to lock their doors any more. These are white areas, for you racists in denial out there.

Missouri still meth capital of country - Topix

Crime happens the same population-wise almost everywhere. Income and wealth does make a difference and not many places factor those risks when they post crime statistics.

__________________
YES. WE. CAN.

Are you saying there is no true family value system?
We live in LA and beg to differ with you................................
Again LA is slammed

Another difference is that those in the flooding right now have a way to *go*. Leading up to Katrina those who wanted to get away did so amidst very long lines of slow-moving traffic for hours and hours. People were faced with a daunting journey vs. holding out at home and hoping for the best. In the current floods in the midwest, people can generally look around, assess that the water is indeed coming, and get in their vehicle and drive away. They aren't going to run into a gas shortage on the way out of town, aren't going to sit for hours in stalled traffic with three kids in the back needing to go to the bathroom, and aren't going to wonder where on earth they'll be able to go that won't have full hotels/motels. They can go stay with a relative in the next town over and drive back towards their own place to check and see what's going on. In short... they aren't stuck on a roof in the middle of lots of others stuck on roofs being plucked out by helicopter. They're mobile.

I do think that the demographic in the poorer sections of NO that got hit so badly also played into what we saw there. They were poor, and my perception was that many of those who were stranded weren't the type who'd taken a lot of initiative in their own lives. Many had been born into poverty and knew nothing but a welfare mindset... and they were all living in a very highly concentrated area. No doubt there are people who fit that profile in the Iowa towns that are currently impacted by flooding, but the nature of small towns is that there's not that drastic a line between the 'good side of town' and the 'bad side of town'. There isn't an area where you'll have block after block after block of people living on government assistance. You'll have a family here, a family there, and lots of families in between who are less mentally/emotionally burdened in that way who have the energy, presence of mind, and maybe even the means to pitch in and help. I don't live in a flooded town, but they aren't all that far from me and our town is very similar to those towns. Within three blocks of my house are homes that would sell for $350,000 and homes that would sell for $20,000. There just isn't a high concentration of people who might feel desparation like there was in N.O.

Another thing about the 'ability to leave' issue... in N.O., my understanding is that the impoverished people in the areas that were hardest hit didn't necessarily have their own means of transportation out of there. Their lives were such that they didn't necessarily have to have a car - they could walk a couple of blocks to a store, etc. In Smalltown America, you pretty much have to have a car to get around. If your town is small enough - and many of them are - you certainly don't have a WalMart and may not even have a grocery story. It's just a necessity of life to have a car. Many people drive *old* cars.... but the do at least *have* cars.

Wow!

__________________
Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be!

Debbie, that wasn't my quote, but I understood that poster to be saying that in the neighborhoods we saw where all the violence and looting was happening fit that profile. Not all of LA.

Every major city has neighborhoods where shootings and theft occur at a high rate. N.O.'s neighborhoods fitting that profile made for news the networks couldn't resist spotlighting. I know they didn't represent all of LA, but from watching tv, it's certainly the picture they fed us out here in the rest of the country.

Let me preface by saying I don't think that I am racist, but I do have trouble with trash of all colors or ethnicity. It isn't just whites that can be racist, I know plenty of blacks that are racist as well. Some days, I feel as if I am completely in the minority and am prejudiced against many times in a given week.
Try visiting an all black restaurant? I have not been served.
Try visiting an all black church? I have not been invited to come back and the stares that I have received have told me I was not welcome.
I've gotten on public transportation, had it been full and had black people move their leg over onto the other seat so I could not sit down near them.

Sound familiar?

With that said, I love Missouri, but know exactly what NightOwl is talking about with the drugs. I have heard that many times. I do also know that a LOT of white racists do live there and have NO problems carrying on the mentality that is full of hate and violence against those of other races. However, I am seeing it on a grander scale of black racism against whites in the United States as a whole, where mainly you see the majority of non-white racism in Missouri and Arkansas. This is just my observation with no proof to back it up.

With that said, I do believe that there is a huge problem EVERY where in the US in regards to community. The breakdown of the family unit, people so busy with their own lives that they don't make "time" to get to know their neighbors and develop relationships with them, has led to an overall sense of people not caring about each other-or feeling as if they are so overwhelmed with their own problems they can't possibly help someone else.

I see it here in the Midwest. Just last week there were pleas on the radio station for a ONE BLOCK area that was flooded and all had lost their homes. NO ONE had come out, but a few, to help with sandbagging and removing furniture. People were losing everything and they felt as if they were alone.

Now, isn't that a problem? And it's right here in the midwest

To end, let's not turn this into a racist thread and hijack the OP's post.

__________________
Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be!

I just thinkg generally speaking that people who live in metropolitan areas with a high population density don't know each other on a personal basis like in the country.

Also different areas of the country have different values. In on area it might be desirable to own the best and newest high tech toys in another area it's who makes the best peach pie.

And whether you like it or not people who are used to fending for themselves will continue to do so in a disaster and peoplw who are used to depending on other people for help will wait for soneone to come and rescue them

Education plays a part in this also. A better educated person who has studied different "ologies" knows and comprehends the value of getting back to a routine as soon as possible. What does that mean? If you jog every day do so in the aftermath of the disaster. If you clean your house every morning clean your area every morning. If you wear makeup get up and put your makeup on. Anything, everthing, a person can do to maintain some sort of "normal" daily activity helps you physically and mentally recover.
If you just sit around the situation seems hopeless and of course nothing gets done.

__________________
"Men can't be fat only fat women can be fat" Peter Griffin
"Without the environment where will we do stuff?" JoeJack-Strickland Propane