Ok here is the story and I would deeply appreciate your views or thoughts. As many of you know I work as a kindergarten paraprofessional within our school district. Ok there are 9 of us. Ok here lies the problem, one of the para's a very good friend of mine, has been working as a K-para doing the same thing I am, however her regular teacher is currently out on maternity leave. In the meantime the teacher who has taken over was a Kindergarten teacher there for 43 years till she retired. However her retirement only lasted 13 months. She decided to come back as first a volunteer and then as a sub, so while she formally retired, she is still making money as a sub. Ok thats not the problem although alot of people at the school feel its not fair. Okay anyway getting back to my friend her name is Stacey, she has been working with Mrs.Q for 2 months now and has one more month to go. She is finding it very hard, she is missing Mrs. Smithe her regular teacher badly. However lately Mrs Q. has been putting alot of pressure on my friend. For instance we work 4 hours a day.If there is any over time it has to go through our Principle. So like I said each day while all of us is leaving. Stacey is still in the room. First it was just 5 minutes, then 10 minutes, then 20 minutes. Those minutes are not being paid for by our school. So today all the ... hit the fan and my friend finally got up enough courage and told Mrs. Q that she can no longer stay there without getting paid, its not right nor is it fair. I told her to go to our principle and speak her peace, my friend does not want to cause any problems. Okay however after my friend spoke her peace to Mrs.Q. Mrs Oq turned around and asked Stacey how much do you make a hour. My friend was shocked and said Mrs Q. thats private. She said its not that I want to know how much you own, I am asking because I will pay you privately if you agreed to stay longer each day. Well when my friend called me and told me this. I immediately said no way, you cannot take cash from her. Also any over-time has to go throught our principle, also there are 8 more of use who some could the extra cash. I told my friend immediately you should have told her I cannot accept nor do I feel comfortable taking money from you, your not my employer. She is so nervous because Mrs, Q thinks my friend is coming in earlier tomorrow cause my friend was just so shocked and left without speaking to Mrs. Q. Ok ladies what are your thoughts.. Peace.. Catherine

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I don't think it is a good idea for your friend to take money from the sub. teacher. Paras are classified staff, right? In our district, they belong to their own union. If your friend feels she is being taken advantage perhaps she should contact them. Perhaps she should speak privately to the principal about the situation. I would imagine the sub. teacher knows the para isn't being paid for time beyond her regular hours.


In our district, we have several teachers who are retired teachers who come back to substitute teach. I also know retired teachers can come back and sub while still receiving their retirement but can not make over x-amount of $. In other districts, retired teachers come back to substitute for x-amount of days to receive their full benefits. I don't see why it would be "unfair." I would imagine some of the teachers miss the classroom while not wanting the full-time responsibility.

I really don't understand why you mentioned the other 8 of you could use the extra cash.

Ultimately I don't understand the real problem is...you're friend won't stand up for herself and she's being taken advantage of....what more is there?

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what would you do a problem at school between a teacher and a paraprofessional

I wouldn't do anything. It's not your problem and involving yourself is self created drama (always a bad idea in the workplace). If Stacy is old enough to teach other people's children, she's old enough to handle a minor blip without involving another aide. Your co-workers salaries are none of your concern and life's not fair so get used to it. I'd mind my own business. My thoughts are you should do the same.

She should just tell the teacher she is not allowed to stay past her hours. I understand that the teacher could use the extra help, or even Stacy could use the extra money. However, it's not a good idea. . .what if she gets hurt on the job or something? Maybe the teacher could find a parent volunteer to help her if she needs the extra help. The only way I would say it is ok, is if the district ok'd the extra time. . .but I have a feeling that's not going to happen.

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I see two questions that you are having. First, the pay issue. I am a teacher too and looking to retire in about 5 years. Like all retirement plans, it does not pay you a full salary like when you were working. Mine does not cover health insurance. Sub pay is also lower than what even a beginning teacher makes. Some retired teachers sub to make ends meet and the school systems are counting on that. I have a friend that retired from the public school system after 30 years and teaches part time in a Catholic school.


The sub should not pay your friend privately. Your friend should go to the prinicipal with the situation.

I'm not understanding what is not fair about the sub being paid? It is hard work and she deserves to be paid and yes, it is lower than teacher's salaries (maybe higher than para salary?).

I agree with the person above who said to suggest that the sub teacher enlist the help of parent volunteers. Kindergarten parents are generally very willing to help.

I'd keep my distance from this situation and not offer any more advice. If the two of them can't come to a solution on their own, then they can choose to have the principal mediate. You are sacrificing your own professionalism by getting involved.

Just my two cents.

You hit on every point I was planning to. Your friend needs to get some backbone and say that according to her union, she is free to leave at the end of the day. Teachers and aides in my buildings are constantly going to the union reps to get rules clarified. And no, she shouldn't take the money.

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Music is what feelings sound like._ ~Author Unknown

I have to agree - it's not your problem. If your friend is mature and responsible enough to have a job, then she needs to advocate for herself.

Ladies thanks for the advice. I am in no way getting involved with this at all. Its not my business, we totally work for 2 different teachers, although mine is not retired in fact she is the newer one here, just starting her 6th year as a kindergarten teacher. I told my friend last nite, either you have to tell her, you cannot accept money from her without the principle knowing, cause this is what Mrs. Q wants to do. Ladies you have to understand our boss our principal is totally on top of everything, she currently just celebrated 40 years as the principal of the school. Anything that happens at our school must get the approval of Dr. C.. When I mentioned that the other 8 me including needing extra cash as well, is only because like I said we all work the same hours 4 every day. There are occasions when we are given the chance to make extra hours, but it is always approved, for instances when they the teachers are doing testing they need someone to stay in the classroom with the other students and conduct the normal activities. Then there are times when a class parent is suppossed to come in volunteer and they might need extra help. However to me the advice I offered was to speak directly to Mrs. Q, and if my friend is still feeling pressured to then go to Dr. C. Believe me there are some other para;s who would be very upset if they knew that one para was getting some extra money on the side. Something like this has never happened before .The true problem with Mrs. Q is first my youngest Dd Caitlin had her for kindergarten which again we have a 4 hour program. However during the 4 hour program, the kids eat lunch, have a snack, we the paras take them to one special and then they go to another special with the teachers and us together. Now when my Dd had Mrs. Q she always would say I wish they would have all day kindergarten, there is not enough time in the day to get everything done. So now that she is sub teaching Kindergarten she is feeling the crunch again. Ok ladies thanks for all the advice.Yes I totally agree I will be there for my friend to listen, but she must speak up this as gone on too long.... Peace.. Catherine

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I am thoroughly confused.

Your own child had this teacher that you don't care for? And your child liked her so much that she wished she didn't ever have to go to music or PE and could just stay in the room with Mrs. Q all day?

Can we assume that Mrs. Q is a decent enough teacher, since the principal who is 'on top of everything' saw her as good enough to invite back for a long term sub position?

And I am really in the dark as to why anyone thinks it isn't fair that she has come back to sub and be paid for it. If she has many years of experience under her belt, do the people who are gossiping about her just think that since she is retired she should be coming in on a volunteer basis since she doesn't have anything to do anyway?

The principal of your school is your pal...PAL (not principle) sorry, one of my pet peeves (especially coming from a teaching asst.)

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"She decided to come back as first a volunteer and then as a sub, so while she formally retired, she is still making money as a sub. Ok thats not the problem although alot of people at the school feel its not fair."


If Mrs. Q were a retired lawyer, business exec., nurse, etc., she would probably be accepted as a sub without question. Because she is retired from this particular school and collecting a pension from the school district, there are sour grapes among the other school employees who feel that it's innapropriate for Mrs. Q to be subbing at the school. Just because she draws a pension doesn't mean she should volunteer her time without pay. You wouldn't expect any other retired professional to sub without pay so your coworkers shouldn't resent a retired teacher getting paid to sub.

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"We must love them both--those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in the finding of it."
Saint Thomas Aquinas

I am a campus aide at my childrens school. I work for 2 1/2 hours a day and then leave. If someone asked me to stay longer I would just say sorry my time is up. If a teacher wanted to pay me on her own for my help and I wanted to do it I would go to the VP and ask if it was ok. We (campus aides) are not part of the union so if the VP said it was fine I might just do it.

To wowisdark, where did I say I did not like Mrs. Q. or where did I say my dd Cailtin did not like her, I never said that, all I said was when Cailtin did have her as a teacher, Mrs. Q complained that there was never time in the day to do all she had to do as a teacher. Also yes Dr. C and Mrs Q worked together for nearly 40 years so they are indeed close. I also assume thats why Mrs. Q was asked to come back as a sub, and get a sub salary, rather then they they district hire a teacher who would cost the budget alot more money, way way more money here in our School District. The issue at hand here is that Mrs.q has asked a para to work longer only this para and she Mrs Q. wants to pay her directly out of her pocket cash. Am I missing something here, this is all I was asking ... Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

Yes, I do think you're missing something here. I think several people have articulated some of the things that you might be missing and I believe there might be a few other things that you're missing as well.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Cathrine, I didn't say that your daughter didn't like Mrs. Q. Please re-read my post. I was trying to understand what you were saying. You said your daughter "wished they had all day kindergarten" and it sounded like she didn't like having to go off to the specialty teachers.

You didn't say anything positive about Mrs. Q. You seemed to be saying that you think she is doing something underhanded by wanting to pay someone to assist her out of her own pocket to help her when she herself can't seem to get things done during the alotted time. You seemed to be critical of the fact that she couldn't pack everything in as well as the other teachers during the time your daughter had her as a teacher. You mentioned that a lot of people think it is wrong for her to be paid to substitute when she is drawing retirement. Adding those things up, I got the feeling that you don't hold her in especially high regard.

You've mentioned that the school is probably just using her because it's cheaper to have a sub than to hire a 'real teacher'. The 'real teacher' is on maternity leave. She did not quit. The school CANNOT hire a second teacher just because someone is on leave for 9-12 weeks. They are probably paying the teacher who is on leave, paying her bennies, paying her retirement... and they can't do that for *two* teachers at once. Mrs. Q IS a sub for the 'real teacher'. It may be that long-term subs need to hold certificates, and Mrs. Q probably does. She has experience.

Would you and the other ladies who are talking about Mrs. Q. rather they hire a non-certificated, inexperienced individual and pay them instead of Mrs. Q, who has 40 years of experience and holds a certificate?

Personally, I think Mrs. Q feels guilty that she can't get everything done the 'real teacher' indicated needs done. She doesn't think it should cost the school district extra to have the para stick around after hours and doesn't even want to ask. She's willing to have it come out of her own pocket so that the kids will get the kindergarten experience they're supposed to have and not allow it to be compromised just because she herself is struggling to juggle it all.

That *almost* sounds like... um... integrity, perhaps?

She may not have a handle on all the rules and regs and union policies and may not be doing it the 'right way', but I sure can't fault her for her attempts to do right by the students, even if it comes at personal cost to herself.

I personally feel as if a big deal is being made out of nothing. I am teacher and have had several parapros. It can happen that there is more work to be done than the hours you get paid, and that is the nature of the job! I certainly don't get paid for all the time I put in either, nights, weekends, early mornings etc... Is she not finishing work she should have finished earlier, or is the teacher asking her to do too much? She just needs to be upfront with the teacher and tell her she is only willing to work her paid hours, and that of course she can't accept money from her personally. I don't really understand why the administration needs to be involved. They are two adults who can work it out themselves. She can tough it out one more month.

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Probably good to figure this all out or tough it out for the remainder of the maternity leave. I only suggest they go to the principal IF a consensus can not be reached between the two of them.

Believe it or not, the teacher isn't going to be able to put in as many hours as she did before the baby. Having been there, done that, she'll be out the door herself at the end of the day! I had a major rush to get to my baby (nursing reasons, ahem) by 4pm each day. Before baby, I worked late every night.

This parapro might have to be very flexible this entire school year...

"The principal of your school is your pal...PAL (not principle) sorry, one of my pet peeves (especially coming from a teaching asst.) " I totally agree. And we wonder why half the teens can't spell these days....The ones assisting them cant spell so how can we expect them to?

Wowitsdark, please go back and read the post I said Mrs. Q said there was never enough time in the day to complete all activities that was needed to get done in the four hour period. As far as Mrs Q. is concerned this issue is between my friend and her, its has nothing to do with my feelings for Mrs.Q whom I love dearly. I was the class mom and never ever had a problem with her. Now to cjs216 what exactly am I missing, can you kindly explain, furthermore can you not find it to stop picking on me time and time again , its gets so boring talk about irony here. Finally to anyone who has a problem with my grammar, then skip my posts plain and simple... Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

That your friend shouldn't have done that. She was so 'shocked' by a simple request that she didn't have the decency to set things straight? Leaving Mrs. Q thinking that they had an arrangement that your friend has no intention of keeping was wrong. Mrs. Q must care a lot about her job to offer to pay somebody out of her own pocket to have her job done well. If your friend didn't want to help her out, she should have said so. There's nothing 'shocking' about the request and it only required a yes or no answer.

There shouldn't have been a problem and your friend is the one causing one. I feel sorry for Mrs. Q. She sounds like a great person and I'd rather have HER as a friend.

opal first off hon Stacey is a very dear and special friend to me. Secondly asking a kindergarten para to stay later, and she would pay her out of her pocket is not ethical at all. Its wrong I said this because for some reasons. Mrs. Q does not pay Stacey's salary. Secondly she cannot her money cash no less on the side to do this job. Also like I stated before there are 8 other para's and someone is bound to get upset and say how come Stacey is getting paid extra, then we all deserve more money. The right thing for my friend to have done was address the issue right there and then. Long story short, when Stacey came into work today she explained her views and feelings to Mrs. Q and stated that she did not feel right taking cash from her. Also if any extra work was needed it would have to get Dr.C our principal first and foremost. Mrs Q. understood and said she was not upset and asked that Stacey not be upset either. So in the end everything worked out for the best... Peace .Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

I don't understand why her offer to pay isn't 'ethical at all'. It may be against union policy - I'm not a union type so I'm clueless - but against union policy doesn't mean *unethical*. If anything, I think she showed initiative and Mrs. Q may think it would be unethical to put the school in the position of having to pay a para extra because it takes her longer to get through the work with the kids, and is willing to pay out of pocket to ensure that things get done.

Why would you think you would *all* deserve more money if Stacey is the only one who would have been working OT?

I agree that your friend should have addressed the issue right there and then. I don't agree that Mrs. Q did anything unethical. She wanted to do a good job, requested help and offered to pay for it out of her own pocket. I think that makes her a great and unusually conciencious worker. There's not many people like her. She's a dream employee!

I understand that someone might get upset that Stacey gets extra hours and makes more money than they do but she would be getting paid extra for doing extra work. It doesn't mean that you all automatically deserve more money just because Stacy lucked out and got a side job! The other eight paras might be jealous and cause problems so I understand that it might be a bad idea to do it but there's nothing unethical about Mrs. Q's offer to Stacy. You and the other paras might not LIKE it because it's not to your financial advantage but there's nothing morally or ethically wrong with Mrs. Q's request . Do you know what unethical means?

I've been sitting here reading this thread for a couple days. I've been a para and I've worked in the local school system for 12 yrs. I can't see what the big freaking stink is about. If your friend doesn't want to do this she should just tell the teacher, "sorry I'm not able to do this".

Who cares if she stays 20 minutes a day more? If she and the teacher have an arrangement between themselves that is between them. Why should your principal even be involved? It's not like the teacher is trying to get the district to pay the overtime, she is making a private agreement with someone after she is off the district clock. There are lots of people that stay late at their jobs and don't get paid for it at all. My actual work day is 8-3:15, but I'm normally there closer to 7-4. Do I get paid extra? No, I do it so that I can get my own stuff done before/after the teachers are on campus. My choice.

I think its wonderful that this teacher is offering to pay the woman for her extra time to help her get everything done. It's not unethical in any way. It's not like she's saying, "go to the store and do my grocery shopping for me while you are on the school payroll" THAT would be unethical.

As far as the other paras, its none of their business. She's working her 4 hours and then a little extra, and then being compensated privately. Its pretty much like someone that tutors a student after school. That is a private arrangement between the parties involved. Sometimes it takes place on the school grounds. This really isn't much different.

I think both you and the other paras should back the F off of this teacher. She's not doing anything wrong. If your friend doesn't want to do it, then she shouldn't do it and leave it at that. I'm sure this teacher will find someone who wants to make a couple extra bucks and will help her out without causing a school-wide rift.

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I work as a sub at a local High School. I guess I am having a problem understanding exactly what the problem is. I don't think there is anything unethical happening, and I think if this women is uncomfortable staying late, she shouldn't stay late. I also think that if she is uncomfortable taking money from the teacher, than she shouldn't take the money. Its a simple as telling the teacher how she feels. If it were me, I wouldn't stay late, and I wouldn't take pay from the teacher, but thats just my opinion.....as for how the other paras felt in regards to this situation, I wouldn't give it a passing thought, because it shouldn't be any of their concern...

So many of you have been so clear with your opinions, but it just doesn't seem to be taking.....sometimes it seems futile, doesn't it?
Add me to the many voices who don't see what the big deal is....I don't see what's wrong with offering cash to someone to help with a task that Mrs Q needs to get done...I don't look at it any different than paying someone to babysit, clean house, cut the lawn, or tidy the classroom, etc.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I cannot understand how a teacher (substitute, retired, permanent, purple or whatever) offering to pay a para a few bucks from her own pocket to help her provide the best learning experience for a classroom of children could possibly cause drama.
The para had two choices---take it or leave it. Why an adult would be discussing this private matter with friends/coworkers and finding it such a dilemma is really puzzling. She can do it, make a few bucks for the holidays, or not do it and tell the teacher "sorry but I cannot." It is nobody else's business. Not the principal, not the other staff.
Take it or leave it. Yes or no. That's it.

Ok for the last time, we are all union number one. Second Mrs Q. wanted my friend Stacey to stay extra and pay her cash out of her pocket. We do not get paid from subs nor teachers we get paid from the school district. We have a set 4 hours per day, thats it plain and simple unless like I said there comes certain times during the year, where the teachers will take students one by one in the hallway to be tested. On those given days or hours its all be approved by Dr. C and the school district. To me 4 hours a day is plenty, however to some people especially now in this hard ecomonic times whould cherish to get more money. Some of the para's do make extra money not as a para, but as a bus aide, which of course is all legit, no one paying them cash on the side. Hopefully this makes sense now... CAtherine

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As a retired long time school tesacher, I also see nothing wrong with the aide working additional hours and being paid privately. Saying that, the only way for the teacher to have handled this is to have cleared it with the higher ups----to prevent exactly what is happening here.....talk about it from the other paras.

If the teacher feels she she needed more help that the district was providing her, then the offer to pay the aide herself makes sense. Everybody should think that the education of the students comes first. This would be no different that a teacher buying her own materials to supplement what the school gives her and we all know that is done commonly.

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E. Roosevelt

"Ok, for the last time"

Your words after you have, as others besides your only 2 pals here whom you thank profusely for being in your little corner of the world, pointed out to you. You can't comprehend what you type either, obviously.

ok kindly please share for the last time, peace, ok, for the last time, kindly for the last time

dl

Deddlast, your one of nastiest mean spirited people I have ever know. YOu seem to find so much pleasure on all your posts to me. Truly your a vicious, vile, vain women, and even on Thanksgiving you still sprew your nastiness towards me.........Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

deddlast = deddlastt
your = you are / you're
nastiest = nastiest,
know = known
YOu = You
on = in
your = you are / you're
women = woman (could be man)
sprew = spew

You do not know me and I simply quoted your "Ok, for the last time". I should have known it wouldn't be the last time, you can't do what you say. You are not a person of your word.

Keep hanging with your two friends here, and continue to berate those who see the real you, at least through the typed posts.

dl

Just proved my point, you cannot leave me alone.. Have fun, also if you think for one moment I only have 2 friends here, your sadly mistaken Mrs. English So Perfect Teacher. I do alot of coupon trades and to date if you care to look I have the most wonderful trader feedback go take a look and then tell me I only have one friend. I have been trading with so many wonderful kind people for almost 10 years. Also if you truly noticed in all my posts that are aganist me its the same ladies, your friends Deddlast that keep chiming in and have negative response's, Do you seriously think you ladies are the only ones who post or view these boards.Go ahead take some time and you will find the same ladies are the same ladies who post negative againist me. Just like the same ladies who posted at the Election board, whomever was for McCain were with each other and whomever was for Obama was with each other, no difference. But its totally okay. For you to pull apart my post word for word, lady your the one who needs the help.... Peace.... Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

For the record, anyone who thinks that deddlast and I are buddies....well, pass me that bowl and I'll take a hit too. One need only be around these parts for awhile to know that we are not best buddies - au contraire! We are totally different and often polar opposite people coming to a similar conclusion with regards to a particular situation.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

cjs 216 I did not mention your name is the post about you being friends with Deddlastt , however it seems like everytime I post, you post into the thread and have nothing nice to say about me. Correct me if I am wrong, however if you go back and look through the posts, you know I am telling the truth. Finally when I hit the control panel you left me bad reputation there so can you answer that for me.. I am taking a few moments to rest before my company comes over for dinner, we are late eaters.. So I do have a few moments to hear from you... Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

I do not know if you clock in or out..or are just paid by set amount of hours...either way...you are only covered by workmans comp so many minutes on each side of the time clock..i.e. it *used* to be in Va 7 minutes before and 7 minutes after...any time after that you was on your own if you fell or in any way hurt yourself. That alone is enough to make someone hightail it out and have a legit reason without dragging money into the subject.

lori

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Jean-Marc-Gaspard Itard

Jaboomer2 finally someone else;s understand, exactly we are contracted only for 4 hours a day no more unless it goes through our principal or the district... Thanks sweetie so much. Also hon look what I wrote about you under the mental issue topic, thanks sweetie finally someone esle gets the picture.. peace.. Catherine

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I responded to this via PM. FWIW, I do not post to all your threads. I don't have anything to add to some of your posts, don't even read them all. That's not just you, though, there are a lot of posts that I don' t have any experience with or an opinion on.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

c/j I wanted you to know I answered you in your private message to me, plmk if you received my reply thanks... Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

That's what I was trying to say in my post. Anybody who has worked in a school knows that districts are very touchy when it comes to liability. If she gets hurt, or worse, sued by a parent, during the time she is getting paid by the teacher, who's liable? Not the district. I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole if I was the para or the teacher. If they find out the teacher was paying her, is she the employee of the teacher or an independent contractor? Either way, the district isn't going to be covering liability in that situation.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Hambirg, I went back and read your first post, that is what I was trying to say. We are in contract for only 4 hours a day no more no less. Like I mentioned before there are some times when we know in advance we will be working some extra time, but when that happens the Principal knows and the school district in which we are paid is well informed we as para;s will be in the classroom for a additional 1 hour each day for 5 days. That is what the teachers are entitled too is 5 hours to conduct their testing of each student. So I thank you for understanding the point of the issue. Peace...Catherine

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princiPAL

Sorry, I can't stand bad spelling.

Hon I am well over anyone commenting me on my grammar.:Life is too short for be upset about mispelling a word or two or three. In the scheme of things, Hon right now we are entering in full swing the Holiday season of 2008. So kindly say something nice and not focus on my grammar.. Much appreciated. Peace . Catherine

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No PM rec'd.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I haven't read all the replies but what I am worried about here is insurance. She is taking on a liability by being there. She isn't protected by the school district against accidents or accusations against her.

I guess I am cut from an entirely different cloth. I picture a para sitting at a table with little chairs grading papers with matching words and shapes or perhaps making copies of coloring pages or setting up a display of books with sight words.

We're not talking about somebody in a high-stakes job. The chance of injury isn't quite up there with someone working on an offshore drilling rig.

Babysitters don't have some 'big brother' covering them for job injuries. Nor do most of the small business owners clear across America who are keeping things running for many of us. When I am in my own kitchen chopping a tomato with a sharp knife I am about 100x more at risk than while sitting in a kindergarten room where there don't even happen to be students present.

I think we're becoming pansies, needing 'protection' from goofy non-existent 'threats.' I assume the paras have health insurance. If so... they're covered in case of an injury! They might not have big brother waiting to pick up the tab for the deductible if they get a hangnail while grading papers and need to rush to the ER... but I just think all this 'need' for protection is overblown in this instance.

sadly, you are mistaken.
If a person shows up at a medical facility for treatment, and it's mentioned that it is possibly work related, private insurance will deny care and treatment.

As far as the risks or need for protection: There are a lot of questionable work comp and personal injury claims. AND....some states allow for mental/medical or mental/mental (AKA "stress" claims), also there are occupational disease claims (overuse syndrome, carpal tunnel, epicondylitis, etc.) which occur over a period of time. These claims are iffy at best, but, if it can be proven or shown that they were "off the clock" they are NOT covered. If a worker (who isn't a salaried employee) stays "late" working off of the clock (not in the usual course and scope of their job duties) then they will not be covered should they slip and fall in the hall, fall down the stairs, or assaulted while walking to their car (and yes, by and large, employees are generally covered in these instances if they are in the usual course and scope of their employment duties)---and if they seek medical treatment, their private insurance can and will deny as being "work related" injury. Thus, it's a catch 22. Furthermore, IF a person is injured and can't file a work comp claim or private insurance claim, their only recourse is to file a personal injury claim. Personal injury claims get messy and expensive. With private insurance and/or work comp, there is a bit of control that can be exerted on costs--and there is no "pain and suffering" w/ private insurance or work comp.

Personally? I think a lot of people are woefully ignorant regarding how work comp, personal injury, and/or private insurance works. Get educated!

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"God is great,
Beer is good, and people are crazy"

To cjs216 sorry you did not receive the private response. Can you kindly email me at my email addy and we can talk thanks so much.. ilovelucy420@aol.com.. peace.. Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

marilynk thanks , in order for us para's to receive any type of health care coverage we must work a miminal of 30 hours per week and we do not . We only work 20 hours per week. So we have no medical coverage. As far as workers compensation, I would have to find out about that.I personally know for fact since I have been here for 9 years no one person thankfully has gotten injured. However, that does not mean it cannot happen. Also speaking of getting hurt Mrs Q. decided one day to stay longer while she was a sub in another classroom. She was staying after hours decorating the room, she wears very high heels yes at her age, needlessly to say she fell off the ladder and broke her ankle. She was out of work for 5 weeks, how they handled that I personally do not know. So things can happen and employee's can get hurt in school its a plain fact. I deeply appreciate your post, you made alot if key important facts..Peace... Catherine

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in memory of my beloved beautiful brother Sonny who is now an angel in heaven

Sorry - I still think it's goofy that you're worried about staying 5 extra minutes in a kindergarten classroom over 'liability issues". The substitute teacher needs a little help and... it all seems very selfish and self-centered to me to be aghast and gossiping about her motives.

marilyn, I realize this is your 'field', but I still think it is ridiculous that the world is so sanitized and unionized that people are afraid to sneeze unless they have union approval. It's as though people have ... they're turning into pansies who can't make decisions for themselves. If the whiney para is so worried she is going to trip on her heels on the way out the door she just needs to talk to the princiPAL about whether her own klutzy actions would ultimately cost her money.

Worst case scenario? Whiney Para would have the principal approve an extra 30 minutes of work for her on the school's nickel and she would have to face the wrath of the other eight paras who thought they deserved that opportunity to work 30 more minutes, too! They'd go running to their union and the union would lobby with the principal to either get Whiney Para reduced back that 30 minutes or get 30 minutes added to the other para's time... adding costs equal to the current costs of a single para @ 4 hours/day. And then people's taxes would go up.

I just think it's utterly stupid that we seem to think it would take guts to work five extra minutes in a kindergarten classroom because you might get hurt in there. I actually find it disgusting that the para made such a big deal out of it and went around behind Mrs. Q's back and talked to others about her.

I don't think it is a level-headed business proposition that Mrs. Q. made, but I think her heart was in the right place. If Whiney Para recognized that there were potential problems, she needed to just speak up and express those concerns to Mrs. Q. on the spot and try to work out a solution. What did Mrs. Q. get for her attempts to do right by the school and not consider having them fork out extra $ for some after-hours help? Apparently she got the other paras all a-twitter about whether she should be getting retirement *and* sub pay, etc. I think that's pretty pathetic.

Your friend should've just said, "I'm sorry, but I don't know if I'm allowed to work in this facility if I'm not being paid by the district. If you want to subcontract me to cut out letters for bulletin board in the evenings at home I'd be happy to do so, but I just don't think I can do it up here without permission from the principal. We could talk to him about it, though, if you'd like, and see what he says."

I don't disagree with you. But, I see far too many frivoulos(sp) claims filed on a daily basis. Those "stupid" claims have made it difficult for the legitimate claims. If there is something you can do to avoid the stupid claims (such as taking away the ability for some to think for themselves in some cases) it keeps insurance costs down for everyone!
Sometimes the rules that we may see as "too much" really have a reason.

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"God is great,
Beer is good, and people are crazy"

closed thread..........post limit reached

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