A woman had a miscarriage also


How Sad!!

Worker dies at Long Island Wal-Mart after being trampled in Black Friday stampede

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MyCoupons Is #1 for Holiday Shopping

How awful!!!

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Support bacteria -- it's the only culture some people have!

If Vegetarians eat Vegetables. Do Humanitarians eat Humans?

'Vegetarian' is an old Native American word for bad hunter.

The sad part is I didnt think there was anything in that ad worth looking twice at...

So terrible!!

CNN said the lady and baby are fine.

So very sad.

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Brenda

GO #24 JEFF GORDON

I just read this story before coming here. I can't believe stores allow those stampedes. Someone is bound to get hurt, or worse. And did.

Personally, I think Walmart is the worst with crowd control on Black Friday. I had a terrible experience there several years ago and won't go back there on BF, at least not early. We were in line for a laptop back in electronics inside the store since it's a 24 hr store. We had this friendly, nice orderly line and it was rather fun. BUT we kept asking hte employees if we could have a number or if they would honor our nice little line but they wouldn't. So it was a crazy mad rush when they brought out the pallets. People that had been waiting at the front of the line didn't even get them. It was pretty "crushy". I wrote a letter and cc'd it to headquarters but never heard anything from either one. That was just totally irresponsible of the store not to make an on the spot decision and give us numbers or hand them out in order of the line. It would have been so easy for them and so fair. I blame management 100%. We were lucky no one got hurt.

Very, very sad. Wal-mart sucks (my opinion, of course). Those low, low prices seem to attract a less-than-average shopper.....

I noticed in the photos that the only Caucasians there were the cops....is Long Island a predominately black community? I didn't know that.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Hmmm I find it hard to answer this question since it holds so many unspoken things.

But I will just say that Long Island is a vast place, over 118 miles long with over 7 1/2 million people. We are racially and ethnically and economically mixed. There are wealthy communities, poor communities, communities of primarily one race or ethnicity, yet most are mixed communities. While there are occasional racial or ethnic clashes, most people get along very well and enjoy the rich texture that develops in a mixed community.
This occurrence is an aberration and could have happened anywhere and with any nationality or ethnic group. I have seen many stories like this for the past 15 years or so, ever since a top toy or item is scarce. "Jingle all the way" from 1996 --while no one died, was a movie about this.

I thoroughly condemn the people who did this and those who continued to shop while they observed this.

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one word. Greed

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ALLOW???

What makes you think that Wal-Mart or any store "ALLOW" the customers to stampede??

The "customers" broke the door down/took it off the hinges. What in the world makes you think that any retailer would allow or condone that sort of action?

Maybe if people used good common sense and kindness then we wouldn't hear and see these kind of horrible behaviours.

And for anyone, ANYONE, to insinuate that a specific "bad" behaviour is directly related to a skin color? OMG! How vile and racist

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Marilynk - I believe that you are drawing some conclusions that are way off base - but you tend to do that with me.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Marilynk-they do "allow" this. They need crowd control at any big name store. This isn't the first time Black Friday has been held! If they saw a problem developing someone at the store should have called the police to help them. I know it all happened fast but that crowd had to develop first. A person interviewed on tv said she left that store before it opened because the big crowd made her scared. That tells me management maybe should have thought the same thing and called for help. It's called being aware, prevention, etc... There's really no excuse for an employee to have to die like this.
What a bunch of losers in that crowd!!!

cjs 216 having lived on Long Island personally for the past 23years, I can offer some important information, just like Rose did as well. While there are some towns that are predominately a black community I can name a few towns, and we literally here on Long Island and in New York City literally have a melting pot of all nationalities, which is wonderful. HOwever there are definitely more caucasians living on Long Island with out a doubt and even more so if you go further out to Montauk and the Hamptons where there live the extremly rich and famous people. Where also homes sell as high as 65 million. Personally here in my town we only have about a 3 percent black community but it varies from town to town. Can I sincerely ask why you asked that question thanks ... Peace... Catherine

I asked that question because my familiarity with LI is limited to attending a conference at the Inn at Montauk traveling by ferry from RI across the sound. There it was NOT a melting pot, although I certainly am familiar with NYC being a diverse and wonderful mix.

In the photos that were on the website linked from here, there was a HUGE crowd outside the Wal-mart......100s of people. I did not see one caucasian face in that crowd. I thought that was odd.....you almost always see a mix of races....and it didn't jive with my (limited) familiarity with Long Island. So, I was just curious....it was a seperate thought from the stampede and death....my mind tends to have many things going on at the same time......(I swear I have adult-onset ADHD or something )

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

This is just my opinion....It is not Walmarts fault that a bunch of idiots acted like animals. I don't care what color they were, THEY are the ones who acted out of line. Normal people don't act like animals, to save a few bucks. Its sad and a bit sick! These people are responsible for their own behavior. As much as I sometimes dislike Walmart, its not right to blame a store for the actions of their nutty shoppers! Lets place the blame where it really belongs....

Do we know that for sure? The last I heard was that the woman and the baby were okay.

I do question why, though, an 8-month pregnant woman would put herself in that situation

When Wal-mart employees saw a crowd of 2,000 shoppers, they should have expected a very, very serious problem. Did they think the 2,000 shoppers were going to enter the store single-file in an orderly fashion?

Other retailers make the shoppers line up outside the store -- even if the line goes around the block.

I think Wal-mart will be held liable -- at least in part for this tragedy.

I realize that the customers broke the door down and were acting like wild animals, but a store is "allowing" it, if they don't have some proper security and some rules. I have seen TV news reports about the BF crowds. Some stores do have store staff/security holding the doors open and making the people go in single file, or give out numbers. Granted, the Walmart crowds are massive, so this might be hard.

I am not an anti-Walmart person; this could have happened at any store.

You are right, IF people were civil and decent, these kind of things wouldn't happen. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.

I guess I just have a hard time understanding when people need to take responsibility for their own actions. Thats the problem with society....no one wants to take responsibility, its easier to blame someone else, sue, make some money and live happily ever after.
I have to wonder in this case if even heavy armed security would have made a difference. These people seemed a bit insane. Nothing like this has ever happened in our area. Not that we don't have our share of nutcases, but to my knowledge, no one has ever been hurt. I know we have had people camp out in the cold overnight to get the *deals*. Which I think is a bit nuts too! I love a bargain, but I would not be willing to freeze my butt off to save a couple of dollars...

This was my 13 year in retail on Black Friday. When you have 2000 people in line the only way to absolutely control the crowd would be to have 500 security people in force. That is not going to happen. Truth is that the people responsible for that poor mans death are the people who were crowding in the store. When did it become acceptable to behave like a maniac and have it be someone elses fault because you could not control yourself? I cannot even understand the people that were ticked off because they had to leave the store due to the death. How insanely greedy can a human be? People run in and grab the hot items because many times they are caught up in the frenzy. You would not believe how many cameras and tvs we found abandoned after 15 minutes. It is just the whole "I have to be first, I have to get one". Watching the people run in I thought they looked like cattle running for the trough. Christmas the most religious holiday is all about the gifts. Does anyone really remember getting gifts that would have fed your family for a week? People are spending $500 dollars on a child this year. That is insane. It is sick. People have forgotton what the holiday is about. We should really just be honest and forget the whole Christs birthday thing and call it "Guess what I am getting my kids day". It has nothing to do with religion, or peace on earth (for agnostics and aethiests) It is all about gifts and greed.

I agree. I blame WalMart for encouraging this kind of behavior with their limited-time sales and their well-known habit of not having enough stock to satisfy the crowds they know they'll draw. They have insufficient security and insufficient plans for dealing with the crowds they whip into a frenzy.

The crowds acted like animals -- which is exactly WalMart's goal.

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Reading is Fundamental.

But it is not just Walmart. At Kohls there was a fist fight over a coat. At Sears a woman slugged a man over a tool kit. At the mall a woman rammed her car into another because that woman took her parking place. At Gap a woman spit on a worker because she wouldn't sell her the sweater behind the counter that belonged to another who was in the fitting room. The locks were broken by people pushing against the door at Target. All stores have a limited amount of the good deals, some are for 2 hours only some all day, some for 2 days. The fact is there is only a limited number of the hot deal, they will sell out early and most people will not get one (including the thousands of people who are actually working at the stores) The frenzy that is created is fueled by the media, the stores and the people. But only you are responsible for your actions.

For startes cjs Montauk is not a melting pot area at all. Now getting back to these early early bf sales and deals, its just plain crazy and seriously dangerous. That is why I would never ever go to a bf sale like that. BUt with hard ecomonic times we are in,sadly so many people want to get the most out of their money in this christmas season. I am deeply saddened by this individual who lost his life and I offer a sincere prayer for his family... Peace. Catherine

Umm....isn't that what I said?

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Seriously?

You honestly believe that Wal-Mart's goal was to whip the crowd into frenzy and have them act like animals?
Do you also believe that it's Smith and Wesson or Ruger's goal to promote vigilante justice?
Do you also believe that it's distilleries goal to have a man/woman drink until they are blotto, drive and kill a family of 5?

Honestly, I'm not saying that Wal-Mart may not have some culpability, but to place the blame for this death squarely on WM shoulders is a cop out.
What about the incident @ ToysRus? Does that retailer bear any responsibility for the two deaths that occurred in their store? I mean, they should have known in this day and age, there are people who are carrying concealed weapons, and should have had metal detectors at the entrance--Especially, if the store was in a high-crime area.

While the retailer could have done things differently, who's to say that if they had handed out vouchers there wouldn't have been a rush at the door? Who's to say that if they had staggered the entrance, you wouldn't have seen the crowd surge forward to be "first in line"?

There's plenty of blame to go around: The media hypes black friday--just look at the numerous threads and/or entire mssg boards dedicated to black friday deals! The retailer (whether it's WalMart or Target or some other) could have done things different: They could have hired private security to maintain order or requested to have local law enforcement on scene. But ultimately, if the crowd had used their common sense, and behaved in even a somewhat civilized manner, this wouldn't have happened.

Furthermore--until all information/facts are known, blame (guilt) shouldn't be assigned! What if the door was defective? And everybody involved did what they were suppose to do? What if the door truly did fail to perform as intended or expected?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

There's no reason to spread the blame around. The blame rests squarely with the shoppers who behaved like animals. People have been going to sales for years and they didn't use to behave like this.

But there's no personal responsibility anymore and one of the reasons there isn't is because there's always somebody ready to make a lame excuse for people who behave like this. It's the media's fault, it's the store's fault, it's the economy, where does it end?

Not with Truble2301:

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Yeah, blame Walmart for having a sale and 'whipping these poor shoppers into a frenzy'. It's all their fault. It wasn't the crowd's fault that they broke down the doors and trampled people to death. It was that mean ole corporation that whipped decent people "into a frenzy" while not providing sufficient security to handle the anxious shoppers. And best of all, you claim that it was Walmart's goal that animals destroy their property and kill their worker!

Yeah, I'm sure Walmart is ecstatic that their plan worked and generated all this positive publicity for them. Kudos to their marketing department!

Where I am at, all the stores with the big ticket door buster things give out tickets to the first people who bothered to get in line at some nutty hour and spent the night. One thing this does is discourage the mad rush. It also results in people going home when they see they can't get the prized item, so the store loses potential sales on other items. The stores that don't give out tickets are wanting/encouraging all those people to stick around and rush the store. That is the plan and, it this case, the plan worked perfectly. The stores that don't bother to manage the rush are culpable IMO. It isn't a random occurance that someone is injured, and it is most likely the one's at the front who got there early and followed the rules.

Tell me, if your loved one was crushed, do you believe you would want to "blame the crowd" and go on with your life, or would you sue the store that created the crowd to assure someone else's loved one doesn't suffer the same fate next year?

This company created a dangerous situation that is somewhat comparable to the infamous "WHO" concert 20 years ago. As a result of that tragedy, large venue festival seating no longer happens. And, concert organizers realize crowd control starts outside the doors. Sure, the WHO crowd is what crushed the concert goers, but it was the concert organizers who created the situation that led the crowd to behave the way it did.

I wonder which corporate meeting was about "making crowds act like animals 101"

Your entire thought process, and I use that term very lightly, is ridiculous, but not surprising. This is what happens when you post more than a few words. The post itself becomes a disaster.

Many stores do the same thing year after year for Black Friday - insert almost any major retailer's name. It was the actions of the shoppers that caused this - and incidents at other stores, it's not just a Walmart thing.

dl

Wow --- I wondered as I read this if you were having some sort of cathartic moment as you typed this insult. I certainly hope you feel better now.

I guess we will watch the outcome of the inevitable lawsuits that arise from this horribly sad event to see who has the better grasp of the concepts of liability, foreseeablility, and culpability.

I am in NO WAY excusing the mob behavior of the crowd; however, the issue at hand is a merchant providing a safe property. Look up premises liability and invitee, then we can revisit your diatribe towards Truble's post.

When the property owner is a commercial venture, the owner owes those who enter the property the highest level of responsibility and must protect those who enter the property from foreseeable injury. Additionally, the property owner must take into account the type of invitee it attempts to attract. IMO - a property owner who knowingly allows (encourages) a mob to form on their property would reasonably foresee the potential for injury to others.

I have never understood saving a few dollars for the mayhem of Black Friday, but then again, we don't make a huge deal of buying crap at Christmas and additionally, we have never been in a financial situation where those few dollars meant much in the long run. However, Walmart customers are lower end consumers, and those dollars are fewer and farther between lately, so it is all the more foreseeable to a store like Walmart that creating a frenzy about saving few dollars is going to attract a bigger and most likely more desperate crowd.

That, in a nutshell, will be the basis of the lawsuit that they will most certainly settle in the next few months.

This is very bizarre, not terribly accurate, and completely uncalled for....what was your thought process here, dl?

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Article from:
NYTimes/ November 29, 2008

Wal-Mart Employee Trampled to Death
By ROBERT D. McFADDEN and ANGELA MACROPOULOS

The throng of Wal-Mart shoppers had been building all night, filling sidewalks and stretching across a vast parking lot at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, N.Y. At 3:30 a.m., the Nassau County police had to be called in for crowd control, and an officer with a bullhorn pleaded for order.

Tension grew as the 5 a.m. opening neared. Someone taped up a crude poster: “Blitz Line Starts Here.”

By 4:55, with no police officers in sight, the crowd of more than 2,000 had become a rabble, and could be held back no longer. Fists banged and shoulders pressed on the sliding-glass double doors, which bowed in with the weight of the assault. Six to 10 workers inside tried to push back, but it was hopeless.

Suddenly, witnesses and the police said, the doors shattered, and the shrieking mob surged through in a blind rush for holiday bargains. One worker, Jdimytai Damour, 34, was thrown back onto the black linoleum tiles and trampled in the stampede that streamed over and around him. Others who had stood alongside Mr. Damour trying to hold the doors were also hurled back and run over, witnesses said.

Some workers who saw what was happening fought their way through the surge to get to Mr. Damour, but he had been fatally injured, the police said. Emergency workers tried to revive Mr. Damour, a temporary worker hired for the holiday season, at the scene, but he was pronounced dead an hour later at Franklin Hospital Medical Center in Valley Stream.

Four other people, including a 28-year-old woman who was described as eight months pregnant, were treated at the hospital for minor injuries.

Detective Lt. Michael Fleming, who is in charge of the investigation for the Nassau police, said the store lacked adequate security. He called the scene “utter chaos” and said the “crowd was out of control.” As for those who had run over the victim, criminal charges were possible, the lieutenant said. “I’ve heard other people call this an accident, but it is not,” he said. “Certainly it was a foreseeable act.”

But even with videos from the store’s surveillance cameras and the accounts of witnesses, Lieutenant Fleming and other officials acknowledged that it would be difficult to identify those responsible, let alone to prove culpability.

I know of some Wal-Marts who employ actual security guards. Most depend on APC (Asset Protection Coordinator) and Loss Control Associates for "security". And the focus of and APC/Loss Control is typically shoplifting and sometimes workers' compensation issues. I still disagree, respectively of course, that Wal-Mart (or any other retailer) could have foreseen that the crowd would have become so unruly and out of control that the crowd would break down the door/shatter the glass

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I don't blame Walmart entirely for the horrific thing that happened.

However, I ask this: How many of us heard this story and, immediately knew prior to hearing the location, that this occurred in a WALMART?

I know some lovely people who shop there (but I'm not one of them), and there is also a real seedy element that makes up a good portion of their customer base. Walmart notoriously throws out these ridiculously huge bargains on Black Friday, and they don't have more than a token amount per store - just enough to rile everyone up, as it was posted.

Around here, and I suspect around many parts of the country, Walmart's store ALWAYS makes the front page with the thousands of people waiting outside their doors. What great advertising that brings each year! Totally worth the loss they take on the 4 token six-foot flat screen TV's for $499.00, I imagine...

I hold people responsible for their own behaviors. And I hold Walmart's management responsible for not providing the necessary personnel/security for the crazy crowd that took it way too far this year. Regrettably, I believe it was only a matter of time.

I'm certain it wasn't Walmart's goal to whip people into a frenzy. However, it is extremely short-sighted, and irresponsible of Walmart to have not provided for the safety of these crowds all these years. It took something this horrific to call attention to it, which is so sad.

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

It's a crying shame and a horrible reflection on what our society has become when retailers need to have armed security guards to control crowds.
Unfortunately, this could have occurred at any number of retailers.

Part of the problem with this particular store was the lay-out of the store. If the pictures I have seen are a true depiction of this particular store: It appears to be a c-class store (not a 24 hour store), there also appears to be 3 entrances into the foyer area of the store (one on each side, and one in the front) and PROBABLY only one door actually entering to the store proper. This created a bottleneck type situation. Lots of people, little space.

I agree that the situation could have been planned for differently. I do not feel that the biggest part of the blame lies with Wal-Mart. There is absolutely no excuse for the behaviour of the customers...

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Clap, clap, clap Devinmom!! Well said. (....you must spread some rep around before giving to devinmom again )

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

cjs216 is totally correct here on all points. Walmart offers outragously low low prices and their merchandise stinks, why do you think so many people wanted to be there at 5/a/m/ .Again I have not shopped at Walmart for these reasons, there is a old statement you get what you paid for. For dl.. Deddlastt your wrong, making a long post has nothing to do with losing site of the orginal post... CAtherine

Stores have a legal obligation to provide a safe environment for their customers and employees. This is not the first time this type of a stampede has happened on a Black Friday at Walmart. If it cared about its employees or customers it would have, long ago, instituted procedures to control the Black Friday madness. What exactly I don't know, that is for Walmart to figure out. But whether it be handing out numbers or hiring off duty cops for security, the reason Walmart does nothing is because of money. Either lost sales from people who leave when they don't get a number or pay for the cops.

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Raising my baby RIGHT!!!!!!

All the cool babies are wearing cloth!

You know I wonder if anyone has ever seen a Maximum Capacity sign at any retailer. They are always posted at restarants. I know looking around our store on the day after it was truly wall to wall people. I asked a coworker if she thought we had passed the maximim # of persons allowed in the store, and she was sure we had. I know that with the mob mentality that was at work in the Walmart it most likely would have made no difference. I sure would like to know though.

We were just discussing this during our thanksgiving dinner. Step SIL was going to go to get some cheap pj's for the kids. I told him not to even think about getting up to get there, that Walmart is always a mess and someone gets hurt every year. They are ALWAYS on the news on Friday night that someone got hurt. He did get the pjs for the kids but he got there around 10 so it wasn't bad.
But I think Walmart knows this stuff happens there every year and they can do something about it. It is really sad someone losing thier life over something so stupid.

We went to a Wal Mart in West Plains Missouri, the only Supercenter within 55 miles (and that one was in Arkansas). We got there at 5:30, and everything was gone. There were so many people there, you couldn't walk. People were bumping into each other, and being, for the most part, friendly..but out to get what they came for.
It was chaotic, uncomfortable, unimaginable, and I truly couldn't understand WHY anyone was there for what was offered. What I went for (the dolls) were gone within the first four seconds of opening (someone said).
Dh and I continued around the store, but found nothing of interest, so we bought some water, coffee and cascade for my mom and headed out. Then we looked at the lines. People were 25 deep at each register!
We thought about ditching our stuff and just going, but ended up checking out at the Jewelry counter where they had a register open but NO ONE was using to check out!!???!!!!

Funny.

The mob mentality is alive and well in the USA.

I guess the roads were backed up an hour up to some bridge heading into Springfield MO for Black Friday, and they had been backed up for hours. It just makes no sense why people would do all of this just to save a few bucks. I will say, however, that my whole love of BF has always been watching the crowds and the crazy behavior that usually happens, but when it goes over that line, like it has been lately, I see no entertainment value surrounding the entire idea that is Black Friday.

One thing I did learn on Friday, is that if you just touch another person's belly, they will move out of the way!!! I heard that it had something to do with you invading their "personal space" and it works!! People not only stopped bumping into me, but they backed away from me as well! LMAO!

FYI: The Youtube link posted was from a prior year's stampede.

Rebecca