DS1, who is 19 and a college freshman home for the holidays, got a phone call last night. Subsequently, he came to me and said there was a party at one of his HS classmates house where the kids were drinking and he thought that he wanted to go. He said he figured he could tell me or not tell me that there was drinking going on, so he thought he'd just be honest. The boys were all going to sleepover.

I don't think he's a big drinker, but honestly when they're away at college, you don't really know. I do konw that his grades were pretty good for a top-ranked engineering school that weeds out at the freshman level, so he couldn't have been a huge party animal. I know that I drank at that age (and younger ).

Anyways, long story short, I gave him some ground rules (NO driving - check your keys at the door, if he drinks, drink moderately, and call if he feels uncomfortable about anything) and let him go.

What would you have done? Agree, disagree, let's hear it!

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I haven't crossed that bridge yet but I think you handled it very well. You and he must have a very good relationship int the fact that he came right out and told you that there would be underage drinking.

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My oldest is 21 and I did the same thing. Her car is out of commission so that wasn't an issue, but I still worry about her getting into a vehicle with someone that has been drinking. I told her to go out and have a good time, but if her companions were drinking that I would come and get her, no questions asked.

It's all you can do at this age.

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I'd do just what you did. I'd make sure he had cab fare or a ride home if he needed it and trust him to make the right call. It's all you can do since he's an adult now.

I have done what you did. We were in the same situation with our oldest daughter. I think honesty is very important, and one of the things our daughter tells us now, is that she appreciated the fact that we trusted her enough to allow her to make some of her own decisions when she was a young adult. They either can be honest and feel that they can talk with their parents, or they can sneak around behind your back. Our daughter made the choice to be honest, some of her friends opted to lie. I still feel we did the right thing with our daughter, despite many disagreements with other parents (many who were being lied to on a daily basis by their children).

First off, Wow, that boy is a keeper! How refreshing to hear about a relationship like yours.

I do agree that you handled it really well. The only issue is, and this is regardless of age, once the drinking does start, a lot of judgement goes out the window. So even though he may have every intention of not driving... a few beers and buddies needing to go for a snack/beer/cigarette-run could impede his judgement. Hopefully there really is someone there who can take the keys once the kids get there.

I'd also tell him not to GO ANYWHERE with someone who has been drinking.

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Mary

Well.....he called about 30 minutes ago to let me know that he was on his way home. Walked in the door asking for decontamination services for his new NorthFace fleece....got vomited on by his college roomate. He had quite an experience....didn't drink much himself and decided that being around very drunk people is not the most fun thing in the world. Good experience for him though, I guess.

I'm breathing now. Thanks everyone!

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Great job CJ! I'm sure that was hard.

I attended driving school for a speeding ticket (yes, we have roadside radar here in our town!) and was shocked to learn that even one drink/over-the-counter med pill can impair a driver enough so as to warrant a DUI. We have extremely strict new zero-tolerance DUI laws here in AZ (if you get pulled over for speeding, failure to stop, etc.; they check).

Not sure about other states (maybe Google it?) but I'd suggest to ask him to call you for a ride even if he *only* has one drink.

I'm glad that you are breathing again. My kids make me earn my grey hairs too!

Sometimes I think the best thing is for them to actually experience the party scene. They get to witness just how stupid drunk people can act. Glad to hear all went well and he is home safe and sound!!!

I'm not there yet, either. Oldest DD is almost 15, but I think you handled it very well. I don't know for sure, but I think that is how I would have handled it. You can't keep control of them forever and they need experience things to know how to handle themselves and also know what is and isn't favorable behavior. Sounds like it went very well from both perspectives!

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

CJ,

You've obviously been doing it right!

Wanted to say (and I have NO experience in this age group or gender, so take it for what it's worth) that I would have added in my "yes" answer that part of my reason for saying yes is that I valued his honesty and openness. He probably already knows, but I think if it were me, I would have needed to put that out there.

Heck - I'll consider myself lucky if I'm ever faced with the same question by a great kid doing so well in their freshman year of college!

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

even though I agree with how you handled it, keep in mind that you knew about an underage drinking party. Of late, our state has been holding parents, who know about underage drinking parties, accountable and liable should anything happen.

There's no better lesson than a kid seeing his "cool" friends passed out, throwing up and acting like idiots because of alcohol!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Handled great (thought so even before I read the follow-up). You treated him like the responsible adult you have raised.

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Raising my baby RIGHT!!!!!!

All the cool babies are wearing cloth!

It is not easy to be a parent: I am glad that he is ok and that you are ok.

I never drink anything stronger that diet cola. Years ago I was at a party where everyone was drunk. It was disgusting.
And weird to be the only sober person there.
I think it was probably good for him to see how people act and look when they drink.a lot.

Yeah, I was thinking about the underage drinking, too. Our state is holding parents responsible now too, and we're talking about jail time -- not just a smack on the wrist.

But, OP, I think you handled it well. And after reading what happened, he learned a good lesson, too.

Just be careful about the underage drinking laws in your state.

Wow - I had no idea that there was a possibility that I might be held responsible because someone who I don't even really know was hosting a home party where there might be underage drinking.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

my nephew was in a somewhat similur situation. He tried to be sly tho and asked his dad if he could go. when dad said no, he went to mom who said yes. sounds like you are a single parent tho, which can have it's advantiges. I'm glad it turned out ok.

you handled it just like i would. I am glad he came home and all went fine. I knew if you had a underage drinking party and something happened you will get in trouble. I didnt know though that if you know of one and something happens you could get in trouble.

steph

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I wasn't aware of this either. I did know that if the party were held in your home, and there was underage drinking and something happened, the parents of where the party was held could be held accountable. It seems a little overboard to hold anyone who knew about a party accountable. I work at a local High School. I would be on the phone 24/7 making phone calls if I reported everytime I heard kids talking about parties, drinking and drugs.

I work in a school also, and it is the law here to report an under age drinking party. I'm sure that varies according to what state you live in. Besides the fact that we are legally bound, I can't imagine living with the guilt if someone died as a result of a party that I knew about but didn't report. When I hear students discussing plans, I tell them to talk about it somewhere else. I don't want to know about it, and I don't want to be held liable.

Thats exactly what I do. Tell them I don't want to hear about it. It doesn't stop them, they could care less. So...does that mean we should be held accountable for their actions? I think its a very fine line...

I agree. I don't think we should be held liable, but the fact is that we are (again, it may vary by state). You might want to check with your administration. We have been told (again and again) that if *something happens* and it is known that we had information that we did not report (word gets around), we will be held accountable. I tell the students that if I hear something, I am required to report it. They know that I will, so they change the subject right away.

But by telling not to talk about it in your presense, you haven't really saved any child from anything (only your own guilt or accountability), so I'm not really getting that logic.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I don't think its my job to *save* them. Thats one of my big issues with accountability. I don't think its my job to report second hand converstations that I hear teenagers making (which may or may not be true). The majority of the time, I don't even know the name/names of the teenagers who are bragging about a party. I am not sure how to explain my logic in a way that makes its more clear. But, I don't feel that placing the blame on someone who hears a conversation amoung students regarding what they did last weekend or are doing the following weekend is part of my job. Like I said before...., I would spend most of my day reporting what I have heard (be it drinking, skipping classes, having sex, fighting off school grounds...the list is endless).

Hey Tammy, I was responding more to freer than to you. I'm just saying that if you would feel guilty over something that happened at a party that you knew about, asking to not know doesn't prevent anything. It just seems to me that providing guidance through life's eventualities is probably more preventative than sticking one's head in the proverbial sand. Know what I mean?

I look at life as a series of calculated risks. We have to decide which ones are right for each of us to take, I guess.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I not saying I agree. Does that make any sense at all??? LOL
I'm just saying what the law says and what I'm required to do because of my *position*. I'm with Tammy here...I hear WAY too much about all kinds of things. I do provide suggestions/guidance when I can...but there's a fine line there, too. Do I put my head in the sand sometimes? Yes. But I think most parents have their heads in the sand most of the time.

He drove after not "drinking much" and you are okay with it?

Personally I think that this has taken a turn which it didnt mean to...
CJS was simply talking about how she handled a situation.... You either agree with what she said to her son or disagree... Not pull it apart because of underage drinking blah blah blah....If you only knew the amount of underage drinking that goes on... if every time it happened, it was reported, the police would have no time to do anything else...

I happen to agree with the way you handled it and am glad that your son feels he can come to you with those things. Not every parent would have handled it this way...

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Be careful what you wish for.....

You can agree or disagree w/ a person, and also provide new information. This is off-topic for God's sake! That's what happens in off topic....

I, personally, think it is important for parents to investigate and know their state laws on culpability/liability of underage drinking. Ever since our local law enforcement and court system started holding adults accountable for underage/minors drinking, the instances of underage DUI has decreased.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I may be an old fuddy-duddy, but I would have encouraged my son to follow the law. I'm not remotely a Mrs. Kravitz from an attitudinal standpoint, but it's part of the value system ingrained in me that it's a very impressive and mature quality to do the 'right thing' even when the 'fun thing' that skirts the law doesn't seem like a big deal. It really speaks to someone's integrity when they can say, "Sorry, guys, sounds like a blast but I just can't participate."

We had a conversation with our son along those lines this week. The girl he likes - and who likes him back - isn't allowed to date. The age at which she will be allowed to date is much older than is typical due to cultural differences. We shared with him that while it flies in the face of what he *wants* to do, if he is able to have a mindset that says, "It's important to me that I care enough about the girl I date that if she has to violate her parent's trust in order to date me, it's not worth it," then he will be a very attractive catch for someone who is, herself, really impressive.

I'm not discounting the value of learning lessons the hard way. Sometimes those lessons are the most powerful. But on the 'parental end', I guess we've always felt our responsibility was to point out the power of doing things the right and legal way, and of maintaining integrity regardless of the pull of the 'fun'.

you dont know how much he drank... maybe he drank one or two wine coolers, or a mix drink with more soda then liquor. plus you dont know how tall he is or how much he weighs.

steph

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He drove home the next morning and yes I'm was and am OK with it. His friend/classmate had to go to church with his family on New Years morning (BIG Catholic family), so they got up around 9am to make that commitment.

FWIW, I believe that part of the reason that DS1 said he "wanted" to go was that he wanted to watch over his two best buddies....who seemed to be a little more into the drinking thing. I don't necessarily expect you all to believe me , but this son and I are pretty tight and I'm reasonably certain that he wanted to keep his eye on the other two.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I apologize if I responded *off topic*. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. I didn't say that I thought cjs216 was wrong. My philosophy is that each family has to do what is right/works for them. Being a teacher, I could have never given my DSs permission to go to that party. I think it's extremely important to have a good relationship with your children, and to have trust/respect go both ways. It's obvious that the cjs216 is doing a great job! I'll repeat that many parents have their heads in the sand.

BTW, it ended up that it wasn't a party....just four of the classmates from highschool who went over to one of the boy's older brother's house. As an aside, my DS goes to college 1000 miles from home....he really can do what he wants most of the time since he isn't here....so I am really very happy that he is spreading his wings slowly and seeking his parent's input....I appreciate everyone's input and perspective though. I fully expect that many people will think underage drinking is absolutely wrong, no ifs, ands, or buts. Thanks for your comments, all!

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

You also don't know how much he drank. I have always had the rule that if you drive you drink NOTHING. One or two wine coolers might have been enough to put an inexperienced drinker past the limit. In my state anyone under 21 is considered dui if they blow anything over .0!

cjs216, thank you for clarifying that it was the next morning. I wish I had known that before I assumed he drove after he drank. To me, that is the true issue with underage drinking (well, really anyone drinking and driving).

" I could have never given my DSs permission to go to that party" But wouldn't you want him to be honest instead of hiding or lying about it?? And how many kids go to these parties and the parents do not know?

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Oh, c'mon....I'm not here to argue and debate. It seems like you're going off topic now.

Just following suit....

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Be careful what you wish for.....

"What would you have done? Agree, disagree, let's hear it!

cj/"

I disagree with your statement. CJ herself asked what would you have done?? Agree??? Disagree???.....well, you can read her post. Also, I think that CJ knows the nature of the beast here on The Cafe.....you post a thread, it could go any which way but loose..... I'm surprised this hasn't turned to politics, racism, or abortion by now

What would I have done??? Well, first off I'd be glad my 19yo felt that he could talk to me about it, and secondly I guess all anyone can do is give your opinion, and hope for the best, and have faith that you raised them right, and they didn't get into some group of low lifes who went against all that you instilled in your child. That's My opinion, FWIW.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Yup, I was fully prepared to take the agrees, disagrees and sidetracks. No big deal at all! I think it's a good discussion actually. Thanks!

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

One thing I guess I don't have a handle on, personally, is the mindset that because a child is honest and comes to you regarding a potentially negative situation, that the adult is better off to give their approval or blessing - or at the very least, not give any punishment.

"But wouldn't you want him to be honest instead of hiding or lying about it?? And how many kids go to these parties and the parents do not know? "


We've run into a situation or two where our son 'confessed' something and we greatly appreciated his honesty. We've also had him come to us asking if he could do things we thought were a bad idea. While his openness was a factor in our responses, we still tried to maintain 'situational integrity' when giving our advice or permission. We never gave a stamp of approval to something we thought was a bad idea simply because he was open about what he was thinking about doing.

So... regarding the statement above, I don't think those scenarios are mutually exclusive. If you've got a solid, respectful relationship with your child, he'll know he needs to be honest with you and also know that just because he is honest doesn't mean he will get his way.

This situation is a bit skewed because her son is not a minor and he really does have the legal right to do what he wants to do, separate and apart from her wishes. It's good that they have a relationship in which he seeks her advice and approval. I think we all choose our audiences carefully when sharing the possibility that we are about to do something controversial, and the fact that he knew he could go to her speaks well of their relationship. I'd have given a different response and have encouraged him to wait until it was legal to do what he wanted to do, but I really do think that the fact that he wanted to know what she thinks is proof that her opinions and respect are important to him.

Wowitsdark - I really admire your morals and values. They are much stronger than mine.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

cjs, thanks, but I'm far from the perfect parent, and it sounds like you're really doing a good job with the whole 'line of communication' thing. The fact that he'd talk to you speaks volumes!

I spent several days this past week with a bunch of teens at a church related encampment, during which they were encouraged to do the 'right thing' even when there weren't going to be consequences if they didn't. They talked a lot about how powerful it is to your psyche to know that to the core, you are someone who wants to be respected not because of talent or looks or money, but because of integrity. In the dating class, they talked a lot about sneaking around behind parent's backs and how it's really impressive to encounter someone who can like someone a *lot* but value their parent's good opinion of them *more*. They said that someone who behaves with great integrity is far more likely to attract members of the opposite sex who also have great integrity, and that if you're a liar/cheater/law-skirter/drinker, etc., you're more likely to attract boyfriends or girlfriends who share those traits... and that your relationship probably won't end well if you start it out by having to be dishonest.

It just really spoke to me. DH was along too, and it served as a launchpad for a discussion between the two of us regarding the kind of *people* we want our kids to be... and trustworthy was very high on the list of qualities we felt would benefit them as adults. They're going to screw up and so are we, but it's still a good goal to keep.

DS sneaked out once last year and told us about it the next day. When we had the talk about the girlfriend with him a couple of days ago, I told him how much I had appreciated him being honest with us when he had gone out to TP a car at 2:00 AM without our knowledge. We didn't punish him for it because of his honesty and because 1) he was with a really good group of kids from his youth group at church and 2) they had gone to TP the car of a youth worker from church who was moving the next day. They were all awake commiserating via text about how much they were going to miss the guy and one of them got the brainy idea that it would be funny to go to his vehicle - six blocks from our house - and TP it and write "We'll miss you!" on the windows. In the grand scheme of things, considering what most teens sneak out to do, I was actually rather touched that *that* was the *event* he wanted to participate in. I didn't tell the parents of the other two kids, and still don't know if that was the right decision. Ultimately, I decided that their lack of a similar relationship with their kids shouldn't interfere with the trust between our son and me. I did, however, encourage our son to encourage them to tell their parents on their own. I have no clue if they did.

It's not easy... and I know sometimes the answers lie in the gray areas!

I also think it's interesting that most parents/people actually expect their children to drink and sneak around. Contrary to popular belief, there are many teenagers with good values and morals.

I agree, freer, but the more I see and the more families - and family styles - I encounter, the more I am convinced that a majority of the 'mindset training' has to start when they are tiny little kids. If you wake up one day and ask, "Okay, so what am I going to need to do to keep my 13 year old from lying to me?" it's probably too late. I realize the 'church microcosm' I spent those few days with isn't necessarily a picture of the entire world, but the other female sponsor and I were discussing families who attend our church whose kids have no interest vs. the kids who love the atmosphere and thrive in it. None of the kids who are 'unplugged' come from families who made being there a priority when they were younger.

And even among those who attend all the time, there are discernible differences in those who'll probably bolt at age 18 and those who feel a real spiritual commitment to their church family. The ones who have pushed a mindset that you do 'church' out of obligation and fear have kids who are really questioning them and who seem more likely to rebel. The ones who have inspired their kids to see the church family as a place they can get love and strength and support have a high level of commitment. None of those 'family lessons' started when their kids hit 12. They've been taught by attitude and example since the kids were babies.

I think similar lessons can be seen in families - not just church families. Where it's lovingly assumed that kids will behave in a certain way, it becomes ingrained in them that *that's* the expectation. It becomes the subconscious standard in their minds. When they violate it, they'll feel some pangs of guilt. When they know their folks will be disappointed in them, they can't help but feel a twinge when they succumb to the voice of the little devil on their shoulder that's whispering in their ears to do the *wrong* thing.

If I've failed our kids anywhere, it's that I haven't instilled a sense of healthy fearlessness in them. Socially, I think you can be *nice* and still be *bold*. My kids are nice, well-liked, respected by their teachers and peers and are hard workers and good grade-makers, but short on the "bold" thing when it comes to leading or developing goals for themselves. That's what we're going to be working on around here in 2009! lol